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View Full Version : Druid /Artificer posible? 3.5



Prax4788
2009-07-27, 11:53 PM
In the game i am in i was looking in to mixing a druid artificer

but i have some questions that if someone would be so kind could use an anser

1 is this even possible if so what would be a good back story ?
2 is this worth it at all assuming i do at least 5 levels of artificer
3 is there any real reason to take artificer past 5 ? why or why not

please Im dieing to know

Tempest Fennac
2009-07-28, 12:26 AM
It could be interresting from a fluff perspective (your backstory could be that your character started as a Druid before deciding to study the creation of magical items in order to use them to protect nature). I don't know enough about Artificers to say whether it's worth it to take 5 levels in it, but it could be possible to make a PrC which works in a similar way to Mystic Theurges if you wanted to progress features from both classes (perhaps Craft Points and Druid casting and Animal Companion progression could be advanced).

I guess it could have a d6 HD, 4 skill points/level, All Knowledge skills, Concentrate, UMD, Handle Animal, Spellcraft, Survival, Spot and Listen as class skills, Good Will saves and average BAB with 6 UMD ranks, 6 Knowledge (Nature) ranks and the ability to cast both level 2 Druid spells and progressing Craft Reserve points as bonus features in addition to granting Retain Essence at level 2 and Metamagic Spell Completion at level 7.

Looking over the Artificer on Crystal Keep, it could be worth getting at least 6levels in the class; once you get Craft Wand, you could make Unlimited Wands which can be used twice a day while never running out of uses (I'm not sure how much more expensive they are then normal wands, though).

EDIT: I forgot to add the 4 skill points/level and the class skills. Those are included now.

Leon
2009-07-28, 01:09 AM
Almost anything is possible* except where classes clash on alignment axis


*Except maybe me spelling that word correctly, took like 6 tries...

Frosty
2009-07-28, 01:14 AM
And sometimes abilities that you want can be gotten in other ways. For example, you want an Orc Holy Paladin that's really angry at the world? Well, this Orc Paladin can take some racial paragon levels so he can now RAGE while smiting!

The Glyphstone
2009-07-28, 01:16 AM
Maybe the Urban Druid variant?

Salt_Crow
2009-07-28, 01:17 AM
1 is this even possible if so what would be a good back story ?
It's up to you really. A House Vadalis scion with a knack for crafting comes to mind.


2 is this worth it at all assuming i do at least 5 levels of artificer Unless you plan to go Artificer 19/Druid 1, don't expect it to be any stronger than, say, Sorcerer 5/Druid 15 or something like that. Unless you plan to gestalt, that is. Even if you gestalt however, it's still not the best combination there is.


3 is there any real reason to take artificer past 5 ? why or why not
Metamagic spell trigger and blast away with your wand? Extra ring slots? There are plenty of reasons to take all 20 levels of Artificer really.


Basically, if you want to craft things as a druid, then you're much better off devoting your normal feats as crafting feats. If you want more focus on Artificer, you'll do much better staying away from druid, as you will not be able to utilise many magic items while WS'd.

Of course, if it's the fluff that you're after, nothing's stopping you from doing something like Artificer 10/Druid 10. Maybe your DM.


Also: Even though Druid and Artificer are two of the strongest base classes in the game, 1+1 doesn't always equal 2 or better I'm afraid.

Tempest Fennac
2009-07-28, 01:22 AM
Salt, do you think my PrC would solve that problem, assuming Prax's DM would allow it to be used?

Salt_Crow
2009-07-28, 01:33 AM
Salt, do you think my PrC would solve that problem, assuming Prax's DM would allow it to be used?

Hmph, a difficult question. It might work nicely I guess, if it would advance Infusion and druid spell progression at the same time. Instead of increasing the craft reserve though, it'd gain Retain Essence (artificer 5 feature) as its 2nd-level ability, which would be better in the long run. Other class features could give item creation feats (albeit at a slower rate), so it'd work just as well as an artificer to a degree (no metamagicking items though, which OP doesn't seem too impressed about) while being... a druid.

Alternatively, it could be possible to make a Druid-based PrC that gives some craft reserve and more focused item creation abilities. For example, Cataclysm Mage in Explorer's Handbook allows a user to add certain weapon/armour bonuses without spending xp (only time and gp). Something along that line would be very fun to play, imo.

Tempest Fennac
2009-07-28, 01:36 AM
I ended up advancing the Craft Reserve feature due to thinking it would be more useful then the extra feats (I'm not too sure how to make something like this balanced due to a lack of Artificer experience).

RTGoodman
2009-07-28, 01:42 AM
It's certainly possible, but it means spreading your resources very thin.

First, the two main stats for an Artificer are Int and/or Cha, IIRC. For a Druid, you need at LEAST a good Wis, and preferably a good Con. That's pretty much requiring you to keep up with three to four main stats, pushing you well into MAD territory (multiple attribute dependency).

Second, both classes have a glut of things they can do as a standard action, but without a way to get extra standard actions, no way to use all of their abilities at all times. Usually an advantage of multiclassing is to keep your good active abilities, while also grabbing some decent passive abilities that require a small amount or no amount of time expenditure. A Druid/Artificer can use a wand, cast an infusion, turn into an animal to attack, cast a druid spell, and so on, but pays for that versatility with the fact that it can't do them all at once, and none of them particularly well (or, at least, as well as a single-classed Artificer or Druid). A Barbarian/Fighter, for instance, gets all his neat Barbarian abilities (rages, DR, etc.), but also grabs a couple of feats that are always useful. A Cleric/Monk gets his awesome casting and so on, but gets Wis to AC, a save boost, and all that.

That's not to say you shouldn't try it - it could be a really fun character. On the other hand, you could end up be a dead weight for the rest of your party, which is never fun. If you really want a Druid that builds things, I think a normal Druid 20 is probably a good idea, just choosing Craft Wondrous Item or whatever you need as your feats (except Natural Spell - NEVER pass that up). Or if you want to be predominantly an Artificer, just play one as normal, but flavor your stuff as more nature-y. Your armor boosting infusions give everything a bark-like texture, etc.

Salt_Crow
2009-07-28, 01:47 AM
You won't need too much Craft Reserves if you have Retain Essence ('take apart an item and salvage the xp!'). Also, having a few wands and staves come in mighty handy too. So that's why I thought giving item creation feats would be more helpful than just advancing craft reserves.

An artificer, in my experience, is as good as her items allow her to be. A few wands/staves with offensive spells save a lot of trouble, especially if she couldn't prepare for the battle. It'd take minutes to buff up your cross/bow unless you burn your limited supply of action points to speed it up.

Bugbeartrap
2009-07-28, 01:50 AM
mechanics wise, I don't see a great way to do this, unless you play a low power game.

You would have to dump one side to use for buffs and the rest for in combat action, and both would be less effective than just the other alone.

However, an artificer of house cannith that believes crafting is what caused the mourning, and seeks to make peace for his sins against nature. That is Awesome tm.

Tempest Fennac
2009-07-28, 01:56 AM
Salt, would you add the features you recommended in place of the Companion progression? My main reasoning for progressing that is because it would soon end up as dead weight if it wasn't advanced.

Salt_Crow
2009-07-28, 02:15 AM
Salt, would you add the features you recommended in place of the Companion progression? My main reasoning for progressing that is because it would soon end up as dead weight if it wasn't advanced.

I'd say so. So instead of advancing AC, you'd gain Retain Essence. Sounds like a great deal.

Tempest Fennac
2009-07-28, 02:17 AM
Now that I think about it, would getting both of those things, while possibly dropping 1 level of Druid casting, work?

Salt_Crow
2009-07-28, 02:32 AM
Now that I think about it, would getting both of those things, while possibly dropping 1 level of Druid casting, work?

Probably. Having RE won't necessarily make the character more powerful though. Is it a convenient ability to have? Definitely. Powerful? Not really, seeing there just ain't an endless supply of unneeded magic items.

Doc Roc
2009-07-28, 02:36 AM
I'll be blunt, it's not really a particularly good plan.
Points against:

Thematic issues
Five lost caster levels
UMD is not a class skill for druid
Druid does nothing for artificer, and vice-versa
Five lost caster levels


Tell me more about your character concept, and perhaps we can work out some solid mechanical underpinnings to use in place of druid/artificer. If you don't want an optimized or even strong build, I suppose my advice is worthless, but as laid out, this build will not even net wildshape until tenth.

Tempest Fennac
2009-07-28, 02:36 AM
Thanks. In that case, I'll add Retain Essence at level 2 of the PrC while giving it full Druid spell and companion progression.

EDIT: I'll add Metamagic Spell Completion at level 7 of the PrC.

Prax4788
2009-07-28, 03:24 AM
Ok let me add a few things. I'm useing the aspect of nature verent of wild shape. If that helps. And as for why the levels of artificer I want the item buffs. They get. From. There casting. There construct. And the retain esance. If that helps. Thanks one again every one

Tempest Fennac
2009-07-28, 03:26 AM
Would my PrC cover what you want or does it need modifying, Prax?

Prax4788
2009-07-28, 03:36 AM
Would my PrC cover what you want or does it need modifying, Prax?

Yea I't has a lot of what I want the only problem is seeing if the dm would allow it. Also. If I'm not allowed to use it how else would I make the concept work of a item based Druid as far mechanics go
and thanks for all the help everyone