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Mulletmanalive
2009-07-28, 01:00 AM
Ok, this is a repost of something I put onto the Homebrew section. Please ignore the rule idea [the colour coded section] if you prefer to keep out of that and read the surrounding bit which was a request for Exalted encounter suggestions...

I began running a high level Exalted game set in an Aztec Mordor with a Witch-Queen bent on assending to godhood. The setting, as far as it matters, has crystalised nicely with a little input from the players.

My issue at the moment is that i'm dreading using a million spellcasters. The setting with it's current psuedo-god queen has a whole bunch of priests running around with its military and this is kinda new to me. I had an idea for limiting the paperwork with multiple casters to avoid the temptation to keep making dudes that are more powerful than the Ringwraith equivilents [Demon Knights, think Jaguar Warriors but with demon pelts] which are CR 12 with an ability that makes them more dangerous in numbers.

[B]NPC Casters
NPC spellcasters undergo the following alterations:
1: Their total spell slots are calculated and halved. In the case of spontaneous casters, their 'spells known' rating is used instead.
2: Spells are assigned to these slots as per normal.
3: The caster casts their first spell from any level they choose.
4: Subsequent spells must be of a lower level than the last spell cast. For instance, a 7th level druid casts Flamestrike [Level 4]. The next round, he may choose to cast any spell of 3rd level or lower. He chooses Flaming Sphere, meaning that his next spell must be 1st or 0th level.
5: 0th level spells may always be cast without limit.
6: To restore themselves to factory default, the caster must spend a Full round action meditating. Such an action provokes attacks of opportunity.
6b: Spontaneous casters may restore their progression with a Standard action that does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity.

Fine points:
a) Metamagic is memorised into spells by non-spontaneous casters and the metamagic version of a spell is considered a discrete spell.
b) Spontaneous Casters apply metamagic more or less as normal; it takes a Full action to cast the spell and it counts as the increased level of the spell.

Requests:
Ok, now heres what i'm asking. I'm not going to break this mechanic, or abuse it [and as a GM, that's not technically possible anyway] but I am concerned that this might make spellcasters a little more powerful than they might be otherwise.

Does this need a CR adjustment? If so, how much? I'm planning to use this mostly with Druids and the occasional Favoured Soul but knowing about other spellcasters will be handy too.

Beyond that, can anyone think of any interesting encounters for a collection of 12th level Exalted characters? The clan is mostly combat types with an Apostle of Peace. I've got a few ideas but more are always appreciated and we're a bit past the level where dungeon crawling works...

If you want to know more about the setting, just ask.

Jerthanis
2009-07-28, 04:20 AM
I'm sorry, I'm having trouble figuring out what you're asking for help with. Are you asking, "Will this make multiple spellcaster encounters easier to run?" Because my response then would be that you appear to mostly be adding levels of bookkeeping on top of existing necessary bookkeeping. Halving the spell slots doesn't matter because NPC spellcasters won't be casting a full day's spells anyway.

If you're asking, "Will this nerf/boost make running nonstop spellcaster NPCs versus mostly unoptimized PCs?" I'd say, "Depends extremely heavily on a lot of external conditions." the way I read it, this change means when you metamagic a spell up, it counts as a spell of the higher level for purposes of save DCs, bypassing spell turning and so on, but otherwise functions as normal. If you're Extending Confusions and Quickening Rays of Exhaustion, then yes, this is going to be significantly harder. If you aren't, NPC spellcasters will get one quality spell off and then splatter because they couldn't follow it up with more winners... or the right spell for the job will be 1st level and they'll be useless for a turn afterwards.

Could you try explaining with different words what this is all about? I might be less confused for round 2.

AstralFire
2009-07-28, 08:41 AM
...That makes more sense. I read it as him trying to run a mass combat with lots of weak spellcasters, so I was confused.

Indon
2009-07-28, 09:04 AM
...I think I'm going to steal this concept for my next Exalted (WW) game.

Aztec Mordor.

Doc Roc
2009-07-28, 09:20 AM
I just don't see this as a good tactic. I'd recommend using psionics instead. All you need to be able to do for psionics is count! And you can just use Ardents, limiting powers nicely. The issue is that it's pretty clear you're trying to modify something you don't fully grok for conditions you are unsure of, a boat I've been in more than once. I'll give you a hint here: 's-not a boat, proper, I think it's sort of an alligator's mouth.

Zuki
2009-07-28, 11:20 AM
...I think I'm going to steal this concept for my next Exalted (WW) game.

Aztec Mordor.

I confess, I had exactly the same thoughts as you as to what this poster was about.

Also, mesoamerican underworld mythology is awesome. Very bizarre to the modern sensibilities, very different. I can't recall anything off the top of my head, but the book to look for with all the myths and stories is called the Popol Vuh. It's more Mayan than Aztec, though.

Anyways. Back to the original poster's query.

I think I'd borrow a tip from 4e's encounter design, and a trick I know some (White Wolf) Exalted GM's use: only stat up those aspects of an NPC that are directly relevant to the mechanical confrontation you'll see them in.

You probably know how long an average combat lasts for your party members. It's probably not too long for basic fights: maybe six turns, if it goes long? Therefore, you only need six or seven turns worth of prepared spells. Determine which six or seven spells you'd like to see used during a combat, and take note of those and their effects. If you go ahead and use metamagics, then take note of those effects, as well.

For spellcasters that prepare, it makes sense--if this is society that uses a lot of casters, they, as somewhat-more-realistic people than the PCs, will have good reason to keep various and sundry utility and other spells prepared that they might have used earlier in that day on healing, morale, skillbuffs, whatever. For the purposes of this fight, this encounter, what a Crazy Azetec Mordor Priest-Witch can do out of combat doesn't matter.

Draw up a generic template of their other capabilities on the off chance the PC's take a prisoner, and stat up Important NPC Types in greater detail, natch.

I'm not sure why you're laying out limiting ground rules like that for the NPC casters. I'm guessing you're worried about them overpowering the party. To be honest, the heights of Broken Caster Power (tm) seem to really only apply with things like ignoring the niche protection of other PCs (irrevelevant), and inhuman foresight about what a situation will require. (You have some of that anyways, as a GM, but your goal probably isn't to 'beat' the party, so it doesn't really apply the same way.)

As the GM, you can fiat as much or as little tactical knowledge and intelligent spell choices for these vile obsidian dagger wielding fanatics as you like. If you're the kind of DM that really gets into world-buildilng, figure out what works thematically for their culture and viewpoint as spells, and use those instead of the mechanically optimal party-crushers.

I see that you're planning on using a fair number of Druids. As long as these druids aren't constantly wildshaping and abusing the heck out of Natural Spell, and instead act more like casters, or like physical combatants that spend some time buffing up before charging in as a Dire Jaguar or what-have-you, you should be okay.

I'd like to give more effort on the metamagic ideas you have, but I'm not quite certain I parse your meaning. Can you elaborate a bit on how what you're considering is different from the way prepared metamagic normally works?

Mulletmanalive
2009-07-29, 10:08 AM
Ok, confusion arrises here because i still used the words 'Slots' and 'Memorisation.'

The idea is that i create a list of stuff that a critter can do. As i plan to use about half a dozen of them per combat, i was hoping to trim the bookkeeping:

On the first turn, the attacker can do anything that is on their list [assuming that i've got the critter's stats on one page and am using something like 'Priest1 Hp 23/17 Max Spell Level 4/2' as the notation on the Initiative stack sheet.

In the first turn in the example the priest would have been at Max Spell Level 4/4, but cast a third level spell. Now i just note that his next spell has to be 2nd level or lower. No fuss over expenditure, no arcane notations for which spells have been expended.

The metamagic versions would be included in the list as discreet spells for the Druids and can be used as a full action for the Favoured Souls. Both would be equivilent to their effective spell level.

The renewal thing is there to allow for them to reset their stack so that they could go back and cast the same spell again or another 4th level [in the example] by spending a valuable turn. The reason for the halving of slots was to limit the number of discreet choices [as doubles are irrelevant here] rather than to stop them casting as many spells [which it won't effect].

I'm planning on using this idea anyway, i was just wondering if it deserved a CR adjustment. This post was actually placed here because it requested ideas in the latter paragraph and Astralfire suggested it be moved.

I'm actually looking for encounter suggestions. For Aztec Mordor. Here are some of the existing ones i'm planning to use for context:
1 - Escorting a column of refugees who hope to escape slavery and sacrifice at the hands of the Witch-Queen, only to discover that Sons of Kryuss have infiltrated them 28days later style
2 - Confrontation by 5 of the Ringwraiths/Demonknights on a hill, surrounded by armies of orc led undead soldiers in a desperate quest to hold out until dawn drives the knights off.
3 - Being hunted through the swampy wilderness by a collection of Charnal Hounds while trying to keep a baby lifted from her mother's dying arms alive.
4 - Resolving the source of a plague that is ravaging a collection of villages.
5 - Confronting the equivilent of the Witchking and his red dragon mount to keep him on the respawn during the final confrontation.
6 - Fighting their way up the unholy zigguaraut at the centre of the valley to topple the great monolith. One of my players intends to then grab the queen and force his entire lifeforce into hers in an attempt to cancel her existence. I've not told him whether this will work or not.

Oh, and i chose Druids for their spell list. Wildshape, i've replaced with necromantic type boost auras. It first the setting better.