Help with 2 Campaigns

[industrious]

So, the party I was in got wiped out yesterday, and as per the rules of our group, the DM switches and we begin a totally new campaign. And its now my turn. I've already got some ideas for a pair of campaigns, but need help fully fleshing them out.

Just to start, I'm thinking of starting my players at 5th level, and we're playing 3.5 (I hate 4e).

Campaign 1: Prophecy of the Weakest

Story: It starts out with the clearing of some random kobold den, when a scroll found in one of the sorcerers speaks of the prophecy of the weakest, where a lowly kobold will ascend and become a god. Now our heroes must stop this prophecy from coming to pass.

Game Terms: They have to stop PunPun before he makes himself fully invulnerable. The way I've written him up, he's only 1 level away from getting his omnipotence on.

Help Needed: I don't know what level to make PunPun. Also, I need help spicing up the final encounter: merely facing a low-level kobold just doesn't seem satisfying enough. Any suggestions?

Campaign 2: The Future is highly Overrated

Player Level: 7 (after Prophecy of the Weakest)

Story: The rumors were spreading, how a small band of strange humans was conquering villages. How they all wielded powerful wands of steel and smoke. How they could make things explode by pointing, and survive scores of arrows. How they spoke a strange language that nobody could understand, and yet gasped in wonder at the smallest signs of magic. How they were going to make war upon the king, and upon the nobles, and upon all kings everywhere.

Game Terms: A elite black ops team has been mysteriously transported to the D&D world. Unable to understand anybody around them, yet seeing the poverty of the peasants and wealth of the nobles, decide to liberate the peasants and institute some form of democracy. Players must stop them (why, because the players don't know any of this, and they themselves are (very) minor nobles for their part in the earlier campaign).

Help Needed: Better rules for firearms and modern weaponry. I've got the D20 Modern book, but 2d6 ballistic damage when the wizard has lightning bolt is hardly the sort of shock and awe I'm looking for. I need guns that really represent a step up from crossbows and swords and armor. Any ideas, no matter how crazy, would be welcome

[Thatguyoverther]

I don't no much about the first one. But I think I can help with the second one.

I don't think that the weapons need to be changed all that much. You might consider ruling that they ignore any bonuses from 'primitive' armor. I'd also consider giving the black ops guys levels instead of d20 modern classes to simulate their stealth training, and also give them a sneak attack bonus to their guns damage.

I think that the real challenge from the campaign shouldn't come from the black ops guys themselves but their ideas. Peasant uprisings weren't that uncommon in medieval times, and with new age democratic rhetoric and an idea of a functioning democratic society allot of peasants and serfs are going to go over to the side of the black ops guys. Allot of intellectuals and philosophers are going to be attracted to the concepts as well so they might be able to gain connections in the nobility to. Clerics of good gods might sign up to. Primitive gunpowder weapons aren't that difficult to come up with, so they could conceivably have a small army of peasants with muskets, and a smooth bore cannon loaded with grapeshot will put a cramp in any knight's style.

They're also going to have a good concept of guerilla warfare so are going to be incredibly difficult to but down. If they're smart they'll set up a couple of printing presses and start disseminating propaganda at a rate that no medieval society could match. Magic mixed with a printing press might start putting spells withing the easy grasp of every layman.

[Darcand]

As for the Pun Pun one.....Frodo didn't have to face Sauron to defeat him. Your PCs might never have to battle him themselves, just stop the ritual.

[industrious]

One of the problems with the second campaign is figuring out how to keep the PCs from switching over to the pro-democracy side, since the players themselves are obviously biased. Especially if good clerics join up with the black ops team, while evil clerics (Hextor comes to mind) will obviously defend the kingdom(hard to have tyranny without a king). Should I try to split the party? Involve good and bad clerics on both sides (and which god goes to which side)?

[Thatguyoverther]

You could saddle the black ops group with a cleric of an chaotic evil god, who doesn't want democracy but does want a bloody civil war. It might hurt the black ops credibility enough to keep the PCs on the other side.

[Drakyn]

Or you could just make the black ops team *****. If they're honestly nice people though as opposed to "RAWRGH DEMOCRACY THROUGH GUNPOWER OVERTHROW THE MONARCHIES" then maybe you should team up with them. D&D's default quasi-semi-hemi-hollywoodlike medieval setting doesn't necessarily mean that your setting has to be as terrible to everyone who isn't a noble or tradesman as it was in the middle ages. It's genuinely possible that they're in a half-decent country and are going to make it vulnerable to some REAL jerks.

[industrious]

Great idea with the cleric, Thatguyoverther. As for making the blackops team allies, that sort of removes the whole BBEG (or BB socially dissonant guys (BBSDG?). Plus, the US sort of did have that whole spreading democracy through liberation of countries deal a couple years ago. The team's also in a strange new world, and seeing something as comparatively black and white as oppressed peasants named Dennis would be a welcome reprieve after attacks by apparantly fictional creatures almost straight out of Tolkien. I mean, even if the peasantry isn't truly as repressed as they were in the Dark Ages, they still pretty much are compared to post-Enlightenment peasants.

That being said, I've got an idea for modern weaponry. Tell me if it's too unbalanced for a level 7 campaign.

All modern guns treat armor bonus's as 1/4 of their original bonus, while discounting shield bonuses. Every time that a D&D character is shot(compared with a modern character), they must make a Fort save equal to the Purchase DC of the item(D20 modern system used instead of money), or die as per massive damage rules(represents the much greater energy a bullet has compared to a crossbow). The first time someone hears a gunshot, they must make a will save equal to the attack roll, or become panicked for 3 rounds(unfamiliarity with weaponry). Each additional shot afterwards gives the character a +2 bonus on their save, until they manage to make their save. All medieval characters who attempt to use a weapon take a -6 penalty, including non-proficiency.

[Nightmarenny]

How about this. After the initial confrontation the spec. op's retreat into a separate kingdom and take it over while they complete some kind of side-quest. After that the soldiers fail to live up to their morals. With the length its taken for humans to deal with difference in skin color I can imagine 4 men plucked out of our world may not feel comfortable with other D&D in positions of power. If your world has an Elven and Dwarven kingdom they may fear that the race's feel a higher loyalty to the ruler of that kingdom than the government the Soldier have set up. Non-human camps(like District 9) would be believable and could serve as an enjoyable mission.

Also consider the corrupting power of power. The leader of the soldiers may set up a militaristic fascist government with the goal of converting the rest of the world and then giving up his power.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

On save-or-panic due to the loud unfamiliar noise of a rifle: Hardened adventurers hear things (for the first time) like the roar of a Destrachan (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/destrachan.htm) without making a save to avoid fleeing in terror.

On save-or-die due to the "increased energy" of the bullets: Hardened adventurers get doused in acid and fire, get swallowed whole, and get stabbed in the face without having to make a save or die. Note that NPCs don't need to fail saves to run in terror or fall over dead. Most of them are rather flighty and have low HP.

On additional weapon familiarity mechanics: Which do you think Dennis the Peasant will have an easier time using without killing himself, a Spiked Chain or a point-and-click boomstick? The whole reason gunpowder got popular early was because it was really, really easy to train someone to use a gunpowder weapon. I'd definitely count a black ops assault rifle as an exotic weapon in which D&Ders can't be proficient until/unless they've trained with it a good amount, but additional penalties seem unnecessary.

You might ask "if my villains can't make the PCs flee in terror or die instantly, won't the PCs just mop up?" Just make the rifles do a lot of damage. Semi-automatic weapons can make ranged touch attacks for a lot of damage, and fully-automatic weapons have the additional option to spray bullets into a thin cone for okay damage, reflex half. Since they're black ops, they'll probably catch people flat-footed, meaning hitting will be trivial. I'd definitely give the black-ops folks sneak attack or similar precision-based damage mechanics as well.

[Nightmarenny]

On save-or-panic due to the loud unfamiliar noise of a rifle: Hardened adventurers hear things (for the first time) like the roar of a Destrachan (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/destrachan.htm) without making a save to avoid fleeing in terror.

On save-or-die due to the "increased energy" of the bullets: Hardened adventurers get doused in acid and fire, get swallowed whole, and get stabbed in the face without having to make a save or die. Note that NPCs don't need to fail saves to run in terror or fall over dead. Most of them are rather flighty and have low HP.

On additional weapon familiarity mechanics: Which do you think Dennis the Peasant will have an easier time using without killing himself, a Spiked Chain or a point-and-click boomstick? The whole reason gunpowder got popular early was because it was really, really easy to train someone to use a gunpowder weapon. I'd definitely count a black ops assault rifle as an exotic weapon in which D&Ders can't be proficient until/unless they've trained with it a good amount, but additional penalties seem unnecessary.

You might ask "if my villains can't make the PCs flee in terror or die instantly, won't the PCs just mop up?" Just make the rifles do a lot of damage. Semi-automatic weapons can make ranged touch attacks for a lot of damage, and fully-automatic weapons have the additional option to spray bullets into a thin cone for okay damage, reflex half. Since they're black ops, they'll probably catch people flat-footed, meaning hitting will be trivial. I'd definitely give the black-ops folks sneak attack or similar precision-based damage mechanics as well.
Whats the range on your average assault rifle? I bet its a hell of a lot longer than 120ft. Also remember that the gun is just the standard weapon. Grenades, Flash bangs, Grenade Launchers, Rockets and sniper Rifles. Equipment may confer some kind of bonus, Night-vision goggles, radio and flack. The first time the PC's fight them make the problem the weapon length and Other-worldly-ness of weapons. Then once the PC's level enough give the Blackop's a Technomancy up-grade.

[Thatguyoverther]

It also occurs to me that the black ops guys might know a great deal that could shatter a medieval society. Steam engines, food production and preservation techniques and printing technology would completely reorder civilizations. Dropping in the black ops team in a medieval setting is going to change it to a steam punk setting in short order.

[Sinfire Titan]

Game Terms: They have to stop PunPun before he makes himself fully invulnerable. The way I've written him up, he's only 1 level away from getting his omnipotence on.

Help Needed: I don't know what level to make PunPun. Also, I need help spicing up the final encounter: merely facing a low-level kobold just doesn't seem satisfying enough. Any suggestions?

The original Pun-Pun build was a Mind Flayer using the Flayer Savant class from Savage Species. The build only worked at level 17, perfect for a high-level campaign.

The third version was an 11th level Psion using Greater Metamorphosis and the Metamorphic Transfer feat. One of the best known.

The 4th was a 5th level Wizard using Alter Self and Assume Supernatural Ability, IIRC. Still involved the Candle of Invocation to get a Wish-Loop. Most famous version.

The most recent is a 1st level Kobold Paladin who manages to make a DC 25 Knowledge (Religion) check to summon Pazuzu. Perfect for a 1st level campaign, and the look on their faces when he summons Pazuzu will be a riot for months to come.

[Milskidasith]

Also, aren't bullets weaker than crossbows? I mean, IRL armor does little to stop arrows due to their inreased mass and penetrating ability, while more easily stopping bullets. Having bullets ignore armor while arrows don't seems... bleh. Honestly, guns should just have really long ranges and really high accuracy.

[Nightmarenny]

Also, aren't bullets weaker than crossbows? I mean, IRL armor does little to stop arrows due to their inreased mass and penetrating ability, while more easily stopping bullets. Having bullets ignore armor while arrows don't seems... bleh. Honestly, guns should just have really long ranges and really high accuracy.

IRL most armor is useless against even primitive guns. Why do you think we don't use armor anymore?

[Milskidasith]

IRL most armor is useless against even primitive guns. Why do you think we don't use armor anymore?

I'm not saying it wouldn't be useless, I'm just saying if you are going to take it into account for crossbows, which are far more effective at piercing armor (they even pierce modern bulletproof armor), then you shouldn't have huge benefits for guns to pierce armor.

However, I could see making guns into ranged touch attacks, since there's really no way to dodge a bullet.

[industrious]

Thanks for the ideas and criticisms; you're really helping me shape and adjust my campaign accordingly. That being said, I don't really think that the black ops team will have such a great effect as to turn the campaign steam punk, since really a lot of the things they do know about are now obsolete(in reverse), and the materials that they have to work with are not so compatible with higher technology. They aren't engineers after all (although one of them might be), but military men.

As for equipment, some stuff is just out. Rocket launchers are a prime example. While IEDs are perfectly valid, my general rule of thumb is to limit the team's initial gear to mostly-standard army gear for a mission. Sniper rifles, flashbangs, nightvision, I can see. Rocket Launchers and PHASRs (an actual weapon), not so much.

As for damage, what constitutes "a lot"? At 7th level, wizards are going to be using 7d6 fireballs and lightning bolts, to say nothing of greater invisibility, ennervation and illusions. I suppose night and thermal vision might counter some things, but as for raw damage, I don't know. Touch attacks seem pretty fair, though maybe dodge bonuses would be halved as well (can't dodge a bullet, but can guess), though I don't know how that compares with Fort, Ref, and Will saves. Thankfully, though, gun ranges are readily available. Any other weapons other than those listed below (range increments) would be most helpful.

M4 rifle: 900ft
MP5 SMG: 225ft
Beretta M9 pistol: 150ft
M86 sniper: 2400ft

Though how to do a long distance battle leaves me somewhat confused...

[Nightmarenny]

I'm not saying it wouldn't be useless, I'm just saying if you are going to take it into account for crossbows, which are far more effective at piercing armor (they even pierce modern bulletproof armor), then you shouldn't have huge benefits for guns to pierce armor.

However, I could see making guns into ranged touch attacks, since there's really no way to dodge a bullet.

Don't quote me but that might be more an effect of design and intent. I've been told that a bullet proof vest can be pierced by an ordinary knife.

[Nightmarenny]

Thanks for the ideas and criticisms; you're really helping me shape and adjust my campaign accordingly. That being said, I don't really think that the black ops team will have such a great effect as to turn the campaign steam punk, since really a lot of the things they do know about are now obsolete(in reverse), and the materials that they have to work with are not so compatible with higher technology. They aren't engineers after all (although one of them might be), but military men.

As for equipment, some stuff is just out. Rocket launchers are a prime example. While IEDs are perfectly valid, my general rule of thumb is to limit the team's initial gear to mostly-standard army gear for a mission. Sniper rifles, flashbangs, nightvision, I can see. Rocket Launchers and PHASRs (an actual weapon), not so much.

As for damage, what constitutes "a lot"? At 7th level, wizards are going to be using 7d6 fireballs and lightning bolts, to say nothing of greater invisibility, ennervation and illusions. I suppose night and thermal vision might counter some things, but as for raw damage, I don't know. Touch attacks seem pretty fair, though maybe dodge bonuses would be halved as well (can't dodge a bullet, but can guess), though I don't know how that compares with Fort, Ref, and Will saves. Thankfully, though, gun ranges are readily available. Any other weapons other than those listed below (range increments) would be most helpful.

M4 rifle: 900ft
MP5 SMG: 225ft
Beretta M9 pistol: 150ft
M86 sniper: 2400ft

Though how to do a long distance battle leaves me somewhat confused...

Armor now or days may offer res and damage reduction.

[Mando Knight]

IRL most armor is useless against even primitive guns. Why do you think we don't use armor anymore?

Ever wonder where the term bulletproof came from? Breastplates were tested against the early firearms to show that they could lessen or negate the impact.

Full plate went out of style earlier than just a steel breastplate (for mobility reasons), but the latter was used in some quantity up until World War I, and even reappeared in WWII. It wasn't really until more powerful and faster-loading firearms were developed that breastplates fell completely into disuse. (The reason why the rank-and-file didn't have armor was because it's too expensive to outfit the entire army) The US (and other NATO countries, presumably) now outfits its soldiers with a ceramic/Kevlar composite armor vest that is the modern successor to the breastplate.

Modern military-grade firearms would pierce medieval armor made for nobles, yes, but they did their job well against the firearms they actually did face at the time.

[warrl]

Anyone who's looking at putting modern military into any sort of medieval setting really needs to read at least some of the "1632" series. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1632_series) The original book in the series, titled "1632" (big surprise there), would be a good place to start.

[industrious]

1632 is the inspiration for the campaign, actually. Its just its rather hard to adapt it, since its a small group of commandos, not an entire, mostly self-contained town. Homemade napalm is all well and good, but from scratch, without household chemicals? impossible. Thermite, on the other hand...