Durkon's Alignment

[Skorj]

Sorry, not trying to start yet another pointless alignment thread, but I've never seen this discussed.

For some reason, I've thought of Durkon as LG througout the strip, but that doesn't work right? Thor is CG in 3.5? He seems CG in his myths, and was statted as such in early editions. So that would make Durkon NG.

We've seen so few character moments for Durkon, though it's pretty clear he's good. NG would make him fit the pattern:

:roy: - :durkon: - :elan:

__ - :vaarsuvius: -:haley:

__ - -_ _-:belkar:

EDIT: looking at the pattern, it's clear that being chaotic makes you happy in OOTSverse. :smallwink:

[Dark Faun]

I don't remember where it was said, but the Thor of OotS is Neutral Good.

[Snake-Aes]

Sorry, not trying to start yet another pointless alignment thread, but I've never seen this discussed.

For some reason, I've thought of Durkon as LG througout the strip, but that doesn't work right? Thor is CG in 3.5? He seems CG in his myths, and was statted as such in early editions. So that would make Durkon NG.

We've seen so few character moments for Durkon, though it's pretty clear he's good. NG would make him fit the pattern:

:roy: - :durkon: - :elan:

__ - :vaarsuvius: -:haley:

__ - -_ _-:belkar:
"Our Thor is Different" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurVampiresAreDifferent)

And Haley is CG.

[hamishspence]

He could be an exception- in Faiths and Pantheons a few deities break the one-step rule, so it wouldn't be without precedent for Thor to be that type of deity.

Especially since he's worshipped by Often Lawful Good dwarves.

Durkon is referred to as very Lawful several times.

[Kish]

"An' bein' a dwarf is about doing your duty...ESPECIALLY if it makes ye miserable!"

From that strip forward, the suggestion that Durkon is not Lawful has been silly.

(Fortunately, it's also established in OtOoPCs that Durkon is extremely Lawful.)

[Morty]

It has been said by Rich explictly, I think, that Thor in OoTS has nothing to do with Thor in any D&D book. It's also possible that at least some gods in the Stickverse don't follow the one-step rule. However it works, Durkon is very much Lawful.

[Jackson]

-ish.

And in On the Origin of PCs, it's remarked explicitly that Durkon is Lawful. So much so that if he's told to travel in the human lands until he's recalled, and he's never recalled, he can be counted on to travel in the human lands forever.

[Skorj]

I don't remember where it was said, but the Thor of OotS is Neutral Good.

Ahh, that would explain a lot. Ruins my beautiful pattern though. :smallannoyed:


"Our Thor is Different" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurVampiresAreDifferent)

And Haley is CG.

Talk about a totally gratuitous TV Tropes link! Not to hijack my own thread, but I thought the consensus of the Haley's confession thread(s) was "I'm not exactly ... good"? She seemed to enjoy murdering her nemesis quite a bit too.

[Dark Faun]

Haley calls herself "Chaotic Good! Ish!"

[Elfin]

Lawful good for sure.
In Origin, High Priest Hurak says that he's unshakably lawful, and Durkon is nothing if not good.

[Kish]

Not to hijack my own thread, but I thought the consensus of the Haley's confession thread(s) was "I'm not exactly ... good"?
People use the word "consensus" incorrectly a lot.

There is nowhere near a consensus about what the end of that sentence would have been. As a firm personal adherent to the "I'm not exactly what you'd call a good person*" school of thought, I regret that there is not the consensus you just stated, but to claim it would be very much at odds with reality.

*Note: This doesn't mean her alignment isn't Chaotic Good, or that her alignment isn't Chaotic Neutral for that matter. It just means that she doesn't consider herself as good a person as she thinks, on some level, she should be.

[Jaltum]

Durkon doesn't worship Thor because he consider Thor an exemplar of good behavior; he's admitted before that What Would Thor Do is not a very useful measuring stick for mortals. But he still loves Thor with all his heart, in a strictly heterosexual buddies way, not that there's anything wrong with the alternative. Maybe he feels like it's his duty as a dwarf to worship Thor, no matter how chaotic he gets. And he likes the beer.

For his part, Thor seems moderately fond of Durkon. I think it's interesting that Durkon is willing and able to pray to Thor for miraculous 'tweaks' to the rules, as with Control Weather, or when he asked for his movement speed to be increased in Azure City. (We see Thor would've done it if the 12 Gods had let him.) It's a way to get permission to break the rules--a very useful loophole for a very Lawful character.

It seems to work out well for both of them. Maybe it's just another example of how Lawful and Chaotic characters can balance each other out and fill in each others' weaknesses.

[derfenrirwolv]

He's definitely lawful. While its possible he's been ordered to ACT good and hes just fulfilling his orders. I've never seen him act with anything that wasn't compassion and heart.

As to thor... thor is undoubtedly chaotic, and probably good. I give you exhibit A

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0201.html

Last panel



http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0501.html

Panel 4..


I can't find it, but "let me know if the dwarf lives or dies, i'm going to go paw sif for a while"

I think the most likely explanation is that Thor is so chaotic he didn't even CARE about the rule. Or it might not matter under a pantheon system.

[Xeteh]

Durkon doesn't worship Thor because he consider Thor an exemplar of good behavior; he's admitted before that What Would Thor Do is not a very useful measuring stick for mortals.

He said that because when he thought of Thor's response to the situation it was something a mortal couldn't do, not because he wouldn't if he could.

[Skorj]

I think the most likely explanation is that Thor is so chaotic he didn't even CARE about the rule.

I love this idea. Clearly true as far as I'm concerned. :smallsmile:

[Jaltum]

He said that because when he thought of Thor's response to the situation it was something a mortal couldn't do, not because he wouldn't if he could.

Right, but my point is that that's not what Durkon is looking for from Thor anyway. It doesn't matter that Thor's personal approach is wildly different from Durkon's, both in temperament and in capabilities; he's still Durkon's god and damn it, Durkon is gonna worship him.

Thor is someone he turns to when he needs a power bigger than himself, and he hopes and expects that Thor is working supernaturally to guide him and send him signs. He does not expect Thor to be a role model, per se.

[The Dark Fiddler]

:roy: - :durkon: - :elan:

__ - :vaarsuvius: -:haley:

__ - -_ _-:belkar:

EDIT: looking at the pattern, it's clear that being chaotic makes you happy in OOTSverse. :smallwink:

I don't think you can say he'd fit into a pattern, because we're not sure of V's alignment. Or Haley's, but her's isn't as bad. (V's could technically be almost anything, Haley is Chaotic non-evil).

I certainly wouldn't see him as Neutral(Chaos-Law). But maybe Neutral.(Good-Evil)

I personally haven't seen much to make me doubt Durkon's Lawfulness, and I don't think anyone would argue that he's non-good.

[Andore Mordre]

I can't find it, but "let me know if the dwarf lives or dies, i'm going to go paw sif for a while"
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html :smallbiggrin:

[Acero]

durkon is the greatest example of lawful good i have ever seen.

unshakeably loyal

a dwarf (are there really ANY evil dwarfs?)

completely truthful

and probabley a whole bunch of other reasons.

P.S. just because Thor's NG, doesn't means Durkon has to be. hes a cleric, not a zealot.

[Heroic]

So I think the question now is pretty much answered.
Durkon is clearly Lawful Good. Even more lawful than Roy I believe.

[Zevox]

So I think the question now is pretty much answered.
Durkon is clearly Lawful Good. Even more lawful than Roy I believe.
Oh, easily more lawful than Roy. Heck, Roy almost got moved to Neutral Good in his afterlife judgment session. I'd be utterly shocked if there was any question of Durkon's lawfulness when he dies.

Zevox

[Snake-Aes]

durkon is the greatest example of lawful good i have ever seen.

unshakeably loyal

a dwarf (are there really ANY evil dwarfs?)

completely truthful

and probabley a whole bunch of other reasons.

P.S. just because Thor's NG, doesn't means Durkon has to be. hes a cleric, not a zealot.

Do you want a full list?
I can organize them by templates too if you want. Maybe you want just the Vampire dwarves? Or do the slavers of Tapista not count? You can't ignore the Torment Afflicted dwarves though.

[Heroic]

Oh, easily more lawful than Roy. Heck, Roy almost got moved to Neutral Good in his afterlife judgment session. I'd be utterly shocked if there was any question of Durkon's lawfulness when he dies.

Zevox

Yeah I know, I just said that to have a reference in Durkon's lawfulness (a crappy one, but a reference all the same :smallbiggrin:)

[derfenrirwolv]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html :smallbiggrin:

Thanks! And thats another one.. he doesn't CARE what controll weather is supposed to do, He's so amped up to lay a deific smackdown with a lightning bolt he just goes ahead and does it.

[kpenguin]

a dwarf (are there really ANY evil dwarfs?)

Hilgya is probably evil or at least neutral.

[Zevox]

Hilgya is probably evil or at least neutral.
Aye, from what little we saw of her, I'd guess Chaotic Evil. Chaotic should be obvious given the backstory she gave. Evil I'd guess from her casual willingness to try poisoning her husband. And the fact that she was in the Linear Guild doesn't do her any favors there either.

Zevox

[AstralFire]

Hilgya is probably evil or at least neutral.

There are no evil female dwarves.

There are only sexy female dwarves.

[Sanguine]

There are no evil female dwarves.

There are only sexy female dwarves.

Ok, now I need therapy.

[AstralFire]

Ok, now I need therapy.

I pine for my beautiful Hilgya every sidereal day.

[The Dark Fiddler]

There are no evil female dwarves.

There are only sexy female dwarves.

I laughed very hard, and then was filled with a desire to prove you wrong.

[Devils_Advocate]

I seem to recall Rich saying somewhere, regarding the deities' conflict with the Snarl, "I don't let a sourcebook tell me what color Thor's hair is or what alignments his clerics can be. Why would I let one tell me what his stats are?" Or something to that effect.


looking at the pattern, it's clear that being chaotic makes you happy in OOTSverse. :smallwink:
Well, obviously. Everyone knows that Lawful people are too uptight to enjoy themselves. :smalltongue: Chaotic people do what they feel like doing. That's the key to happiness.

Eh? What are these "consequences" that you speak of?


Ahh, that would explain a lot. Ruins my beautiful pattern though. :smallannoyed:
Roy seems to be pretty much Neutral Good, despite being let into the Lawful Good afterlife. (I personally don't see how he was "trying" to be LG, or why he'd want to be, other than that it would let him live with his relatives.) He believes in tradition and personal responsibility, but he doesn't seem to have much respect for authority, and he's not especially honest. So swap him around with Durkon and it works.


(are there really ANY evil dwarfs?)
Sure there are. Most of them are duergar.


There are no evil female dwarves.

There are only sexy female dwarves.
But Evil Is Sexy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilIsSexy)!

[Carnivorous M.]

I wouldn't have thought it was anything other than LG; even if his god is a prick, Durkon is pretty much every inch the Lawful Good character.

[lord_khaine]

I wouldn't have thought it was anything other than LG; even if his god is a prick, he's still awesome.

How do you manage to call a God who personaly goes out of his way to help a follower on several occasions a prick?

[Snake-Aes]

How do you manage to call a God who personaly goes out of his way to help a follower on several occasions a prick?

Because he's a prick?

[Kranden]

Don't you remember Hilga? He broke up with her because she WAS NOT LAWFUL!

End of thread.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Don't you remember Hilga? He broke up with her because she WAS NOT LAWFUL!

End of thread.

What, non-lawful people can't be attracted to lawful people? I jest.

[dps]

Ok, now I need therapy.

No, AstalFire needs therapy. Or a lot better vison care.

[Boaromir]

There are no evil female dwarves.

There are only sexy female dwarves.



This is the best statement ever.

[AstralFire]

No, AstalFire needs therapy. Or a lot better vison care.

20/18, baby.

[Berserk Monk]

I always thought he was lawful good. He's good and lives by oaths and dwarven traditions, also he gets along with Roy pretty well.

[Cracklord]

There are no evil female dwarves.

There are only sexy female dwarves.

Please let me sig this.

[AstralFire]

Please let me sig this.

Feel free. I'm flattered. :smallsmile:

[lothos]

durkon is the greatest example of lawful good i have ever seen.

(snip)

100% agree that he is Lawful Good, so much evidence to support this there can be no reasonable doubt in my opinion.

But Would you say he is an even better paradigm of the LG alignment than O-Chul ? Both are without doubt fantastic examples of a LG individual. It's just that I think O-Chul is hard to beat when it comes to exemplifying LG behaviour.