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View Full Version : Age of Worms: Need help with gestalt Rogue/Wizard



Mordokai
2009-07-28, 05:56 PM
As the thread title says, I would need a little help with a specific build. Now, I saw the Character Builder thread a little higher, but I hope to get some more ideas by starting my own topic.

Me and my buddy hope to do something crazy in the following few months: start, play and finish Age of Worms as a two man party. To do so, we would most likely go gestalt. The DM allowed it so now I'm milking it for everything I can get out of it.

My friend will most likely be a swordsage/monk with Vow of Poverty. I'm a little short on details of build, but it's not really that important. He'll likely be playing tank, which leaves me with support and being a skill monkey. Healing will more than likely be taken care by some NPCs or potions and similar.

I am familiar with rules of gestalt, but I'm horrible with optimisation and indeed, even building powerful characters. And for this, I will need one like this. So I hope you guys can give me some help :smallsmile:

The basic idea is pretty simple. Rogue/wizard, probably human(for an extra feat and skill point), with maxed out intelligence for more spells, more skill points and more powerful spells. The other points go to dexterity(AC, ranged attacks, melee touch attack), followed by STR, WIS, CON and CHA. I'm assuming 32 point buy(worst case scenario), but since we're only two players I think it's pretty safe bet we'll get more than that. As for skills, Disable Device gets maxed, as do certain Knowledges, Concentracion and some charisma skills. I doubt I'll be investing in Hide much(if at all), since once we get Invisibilty and Greater Invisibilty that won't be a problem anymore.

What I want to know, is there any better combination for what I want? That is artillery/skill monkey. If I stick with wizard/rogue I'm planning to go the Initiate of Sevenfold veil eventually. Is there any better PrC for wizard? I know it's cheesy, but... it's allowed this time :smalltongue: As for rogue part, I really have no idea where to take him. Something with full BAB would be nice, but I imagine some extra abilities would be even better.

Tl;dr: I need help building a gestalt rogue/wizard. Not level-by-level version, but I would appreciate the general idea where to take him so I can get as much as possible from the build as possible.

Going from level one to level twenty. All books allowed. 32 point buy system. All races without LA allowed. No alignment restrictions. I'm not looking for roleplaying heavy character but efficient one, to the point where he's already brutally efficient. He'll be the skill monkey of the party and the batman. We have a tank and can take care of healing one way or another.

Hope this is enough data and thanks for the help in advance :smallsmile: If however, this thread violates any rules it can be of course locked right away.

Tam_OConnor
2009-07-28, 10:47 PM
How...generous of your DM to allow gestalt. A little warning: the playtest group of the Age of Worms Journal in my sig had three gestalts, and there have been party wipes. Plural. Not saying that it's impossible, but the Adventure Paths (All Hail!) are utterly brutal.

I'd really really really recommend having a healer in party. As in, both playtest and real party regularly run out of healing, even with expendables like potions and wands. I'd also recommend your friend go swordsage-cleric and stay away from Vow of Poverty, but that's been hashed out dozens of times on the boards here (here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118154&highlight=monk+poverty), for instance).

Not to spoil much, but rogues get progressive less efficient as the Path wears on. Frankly, I'd take three levels of human paragon (to get Disable Device as a permanent class skill), and then clerical goodness (Trickery domain, perhaps). Heck, if anything is allowed, go cloistered cleric (Unearthed Arcana) and knowledge devotion (Complete Champion). That takes care of attack and damage without using divine metamagic (same amount of cheese, but no DMM). And you might want to pick up two levels of rogue anyway, for evasion. Because you will need it.

Oh, and pray.

AmberVael
2009-07-28, 10:54 PM
I recommend that you go Factotum // Wizard. Factotum gives you most of the same features as Rogue, some features which are much better than the ones Rogue gives you, and also synergizes with Wizard, and allows you extra actions (which is worth its weight in gold in Gestalt).

Gnorman
2009-07-28, 11:41 PM
I recommend that you go Factotum // Wizard. Factotum gives you most of the same features as Rogue, some features which are much better than the ones Rogue gives you, and also synergizes with Wizard, and allows you extra actions (which is worth its weight in gold in Gestalt).

Seconded. Just as skillful, but doesn't have the features you won't use (i.e. sneak attack). Just gives you your intelligence as a bonus to basically everything.

Since you don't have a cleric, the Opportunistic Piety will be pretty helpful, too.

They get a small amount of SLAs which can shore up weaknesses in your spell list. Banned Necromancy, but need a spell from it? Boom. You got it.

Factotum // Wizard is... basically the best combination ever.

Personally, I'd go:

Human Factotum 18 / Chameleon 2 // Focused Conjurer 3 / Master Specialist 4 / Malconvoker 9 / Paragnostic Disciple or Archmage 4.

You get: Insane Factotum abilities. A floating feat from Chameleon that can basically do anything you want it to do. Near-full casting. A ludicrous amount of powerful summons, which will help fill the bodies in battle for you. More targets = more targets that aren't you. Granted, you could reduce Malconvoker to just five levels and pick up something else that looks fun.

The ultimate Batman.

And yes, dear god in heaven yes, convince your friend to be a swordsage // druid or cleric, not a monk. Swordsages are practically already monks, so the combination is redundant. He'd still get full saves, the same hit dice and BAB, but instead of useless, useless monk abilities he'd be a holy terror. Besides, he could always flavor his character as a monk anyway - the fluffy line between the two is thin.

michaelcroket
2009-07-28, 11:43 PM
As being the DM of AoW, I'd suggest that you use the NPC as the rogue. I remember a few traps in there that no amount of HP or high saves could stop. Either that, or have your character's name end with a number.