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Random832
2009-07-28, 07:47 PM
D&D of course does not have any mechanic for time travel per se (or any way to fake it like planes with a negative time trait, etc). This is for a very good reason.

I was wondering if anyone ever in the history of gaming had come up with a mechanic for time travel that is A) doesn't create incurable headaches for the DM, B) is reasonably consistent and actually lets you do things C) doesn't create incurable headaches for the DM, D) isn't limited to e.g. several far-apart eras, E) doesn't create incurable headaches for the DM, and F) doesn't create incurable headaches for the DM.

Or if anyone here has any ideas. :smallcool:

Tiki Snakes
2009-07-28, 08:04 PM
D&D of course does not have any mechanic for time travel per se (or any way to fake it like planes with a negative time trait, etc). This is for a very good reason.

I was wondering if anyone ever in the history of gaming had come up with a mechanic for time travel that is A) doesn't create incurable headaches for the DM, B) is reasonably consistent and actually lets you do things C) doesn't create incurable headaches for the DM, D) isn't limited to e.g. several far-apart eras, E) doesn't create incurable headaches for the DM, and F) doesn't create incurable headaches for the DM.

Or if anyone here has any ideas. :smallcool:

No. That's time travel for you, basically. It will almost always violate conditions A, C, E, and F, no matter what precautions or limitations you introduce.

herrhauptmann
2009-07-28, 08:12 PM
Best I can suggest is something like back to the future 2. But that would require getting your players agreement to actively try not to mess with things they've already done. And it'll still create headaches for the DM.

Lewin Eagle
2009-07-28, 08:47 PM
You could use pseudo timetravel. When you travel back an alternate timeline branches of and you can do whatever you want (like killing you younger self) without any problems since the original timeline remains unchanged. But that is quite lame because the original timeline remains unchanged.

Other solutions are all headache inducing. Stable timeloops require that what you do ultimatly leads to the future you came from(note: actually you could run through a few loops till reaching one which is stable but that isn't easier). Almost impossible without much planning + railroading...

Hmm I think the easiest way is to just say that after timetravel all connections to your past self are cut and even if your past self never travels back in time you remain unchanged. It's a bit weird but otherwise you either have to deal with the danger of a paradox or try to leave the future unchanged.
But if you met yourself or travel more than once to the same time (which means several copies of your group running around) it becomes chaotic anyway. Timr travel is just a pain in the ass...

Mavian
2009-07-28, 08:55 PM
If I remember correctly, there was a time travel book for second edition.

Chronomancer. It's been forever since I looked through it though.

Zadus
2009-07-28, 08:55 PM
I used timetravel once. I had the players go off to close a rift in time using an item called a G-Diffuser. There was something wrong with it and they were sent 5 minutes in to the past and basically witnessed themselves going off in to the dungeon to close the rift in time and space.

Ok, so the first time they came up to the dungeon, one of the players future selves gave the party the key to the front door. Then the player was supposed to pass the key on when it was his turn. This way the key only exists in this little part in time. I like the concept, I also got a kick out of Timesplitters.

Anyway he died at the end of the dungeon. I basically resolved it with Death coming down and fixing the timeline.

I would do timetravel again, and again and again. I love science fiction in a fantasy setting, but I'd set up something that can come in and fix the timeline should things go awry. I think Inevitables are set up for just that, but if you watch enough Dr. Who, its not to hard to think up other ways.

chiasaur11
2009-07-28, 08:59 PM
I could have sworn there was some kind of time travel mechanic in some obscure splat.

Got brought up in the original Pun-Pun thread.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-07-28, 09:22 PM
Semi-kinda time travel:Dirty Trick #5: Effective "Save" Game Mechanics - (by Tleilaxu_Ghola) (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-737126)

An RTS that seems to have mechanics for short-duration time travel that may actually work, are simple to understand, and could probably be co-opted for tabletop without much trouble in some way: Archon (http://achrongame.com/).

awa
2009-07-28, 09:28 PM
are you talking about a one off time travel like go back to before the bad guy used his doomsday device or something on a regular basis?

The Professor
2009-07-28, 09:45 PM
There was a... I think 2nd edition book about Netheril? One of the schticks to get your players to adventure there was to use time travel. They had a ninth level spell or something in there, that opened up a portal to the time and generic region you wanted to go, but there were a few problems...

All of your magical equipment could not go back in time with you. Instead, the spell 'saved' them for you for when you made your return trip. For wizards, if the spell did not exist yet, it gets removed from their spellbook until it IS invented. Also: All of your spells prepared for the day are immediately gotten rid of as if cast.

I still think it'd give a headache to the DM though.

Doc Roc
2009-07-29, 02:16 AM
D&D has five or six ways to time travel. I don't want to talk about it.
There's a reason there's no Far Realms in the Test of Spite.

ZeroNumerous
2009-07-29, 02:18 AM
I could have sworn there was some kind of time travel mechanic in some obscure splat.

Right in (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeRegression.htm) the XPH (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeHop.htm). Get an unlimited use item of both.

sonofzeal
2009-07-29, 02:37 AM
Possible non-paradox-inducing method of time travel: Define your universe as being cyclic in time, then allow travel forward only. Travelling to the "past" becomes possible, without much difficulty, because it's not your past, it's your far-future-doppelganger's past. The world doesn't blow up if the two of you touch, or if you kill his grandfather, and you still get to change history willy nilly.

Kurald Galain
2009-07-29, 02:45 AM
I was wondering if anyone ever in the history of gaming had come up with a mechanic for time travel that is A) doesn't create incurable headaches for the DM, B) is reasonably consistent and actually lets you do things C) doesn't create incurable headaches for the DM, D) isn't limited to e.g. several far-apart eras, E) doesn't create incurable headaches for the DM, and F) doesn't create incurable headaches for the DM.

Certainly. I recommend you pick up GURPS Time Travel. Even if you don't play GURPS, because almost nothing in the books requires or contains GURPS mechanics.

What it does contain is several elaborate methods of time travel, with ramifications, consequences, and ways of dealing with paradox. Excellent reading material.

Kaiyanwang
2009-07-29, 02:57 AM
Well, D&D does not have time travel mechanics until epic. I guess that, with the approval of the DM, there are few things an epic spell can't do.

Seed: transport can do the job, I guess. Maybe Seed: foresee or other can be useful depending from what you want to obtain.

More: in one of the latest issue of dragon magazine, there is the Time Dragon, an epic dragon that puts Prismatic and Force dragons ashame.

This dragon has the ability to time travel, even if is described as an "out of combat" ability, becasue needs effort and concentration.

With the proper background and roleplay, you can use it for a campaing (not as an enemy, please. It's simply too strong).



Outside epic... sorry I don't know :smallfrown::smallfrown:

mostlyharmful
2009-07-29, 02:58 AM
D&D of course does not have any mechanic for time travel per se (or any way to fake it like planes with a negative time trait, etc). This is for a very good reason.

As with all good rules, this one's broken by at least one splat. The book for the alternate futures of Krynn has (I vaguely recall) a stated spell as used by Raistlin and Par-Salian used to boot them back three hundred years. Basically it's a fixed time world with the possibility of alternate dimension creation if one of the Chaotic races (Kender, Gnomes, Dwarves) get in on the act. 9th level and XP costs of course and still nowhere near costs enough.

Radar
2009-07-29, 04:04 AM
Time travel idea related to modern science wormholes:

Consider the Gate spell and a plane of existence with much slower time flow - to the point where lets say 24h on Material Plane (M later in the post) equal 1 round in that plane (lets call it A).

I assume, that Gate locally adjusts time flow (otherwise trying to walk through the portal could rip one apart or do other nasty things). I know this might not be RAW, but just look at the result:

While being on the M cast and retain the Gate to A. Do your work for the next 24h and Plane Shift to A (let's say you persisted it yousing a rod or something like that). You got there one round after opening the Gate counting in local time. Go through the Gate and meet yourself one round after you have cast the Gate. Do your work together with yourself for 24h and repeat as many times as needed (fun fact: if all of yourselves will planeshift every time, number of yourselves will increase according to Fibonacci series :smallsmile:).
Why chain-Gate Solars for help, when you can help yourself?

The whole process could be obviously conducted between M and your regular ultra fast, timeless demiplane and copy Simulacrums or your Astral Projections instead of yourself, so you won't age and such.

Doc Roc
2009-07-29, 04:21 AM
There's a bunch of others. Including a spell called teleport through time.

It is exactly as stupid as it sounds. This is a bad road. May we please not tread it? I've spent hours and hours on this with T_G from 339. And... Yeah. Yeah there's nothing good here.

Tyrmatt
2009-07-29, 05:06 AM
The only way I've ever considered "Time Travel" in D&D was for the PCs to experience visions/spirit walks etc of the past. I'm sure someone on the board posted a while back on how they let the PCs understand the history of a dungeon by letting them play as the "original heroes" who were much higher level and thus the PCs had to use valuable information gleaned from the past to defeat the even more powerful enemy in the future.

Also read the GURPS Time Travel stuff. If anyone knows how to cover his bases in multi-dimensional time/space world hopping continuity, it's Steve Jackson.

Doc Roc
2009-07-29, 05:08 AM
Yep, no time travel here. Certainly not a spell named teleport through time. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030409b)

kamikasei
2009-07-29, 05:12 AM
Time travel idea related to modern science wormholes:

Consider the Gate spell and a plane of existence with much slower time flow - to the point where lets say 24h on Material Plane (M later in the post) equal 1 round in that plane (lets call it A).

I assume, that Gate locally adjusts time flow (otherwise trying to walk through the portal could rip one apart or do other nasty things). I know this might not be RAW, but just look at the result:

While being on the M cast and retain the Gate to A. Do your work for the next 24h and Plane Shift to A (let's say you persisted it yousing a rod or something like that). You got there one round after opening the Gate counting in local time. Go through the Gate and meet yourself one round after you have cast the Gate. Do your work together with yourself for 24h and repeat as many times as needed (fun fact: if all of yourselves will planeshift every time, number of yourselves will increase according to Fibonacci series :smallsmile:).
Why chain-Gate Solars for help, when you can help yourself?

The whole process could be obviously conducted between M and your regular ultra fast, timeless demiplane and copy Simulacrums or your Astral Projections instead of yourself, so you won't age and such.

I think I love you.

Fishy
2009-07-29, 05:31 AM
You're looking for Cºntinuum, universally hailed as the best game that you never want to actually play.

Random832
2009-07-29, 07:02 AM
Okay, so I was wrong. there are spells, etc that purport to provide a way to travel through time. This is a monumentally bad idea in the absence of actual guidance on how to actually have a nonlinear progression of events. I'll see if I can find that GURPS thing

GreatWyrmGold
2009-07-29, 09:51 AM
Take a page out of Time of the Twins. Time is a river; the PCs can cause "ripples", but someone always comes in to take the place of someone they killed (for example).

Radar
2009-07-29, 10:19 AM
That Teleport Through Time is totally dependant on DM fiat due to the specific material component. Still it's a bit unwieldy: it either can mess everything up, or is not usable at all.


I think I love you.
Go Radar! Go Radar! I'm useful! :elan:

JeenLeen
2009-07-29, 10:35 AM
That Teleport Through Time is totally dependant on DM fiat due to the specific material component. Still it's a bit unwieldy: it either can mess everything up, or is not usable at all.

Since such is cheap, technically Eschew Materials bypasses it. Ignore Material Components (epic feat) certainty would.


I was in a custom-made game, a merger of WoD powers and a home-made mechanics. One of us got Time high enough to time travel. When we asked the DM if it was possible, thinking we could travel back and kill the BBEG before he became a vampire, he said yes. However, we would suffer 'Paradox damage' if our actions in the past changed who we would be in the present, which would take the form of permanent damage to stats.
We ended up never time traveling.

If you want to allow time travel to your players (and perhaps if you are a creul DM), you could warn them that there are consequences.