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*.*.*.*
2009-07-29, 03:36 AM
So, after my current character got a big nerf stick to the face, I need a new character. My old character was one of two of our only melee characters. We are currently level 10 and the party looks like this.

Gestalt btw

Fighter/rogue
Sorcerer/fighter(Gish)
Ranger/rogue/sorcerer(blaster)
Monk/Warlock(alignment restriction dropped)
Occasionally we get a single classed Rogue and a Rogue/fighter/paladin(looses paladin spells and mount since fighter and paladin are so similar)

I know all of these guys are horribly low tiers, but the DM has given each one of them something good. The sorc/fighter(or maybe fighter/rogue) has a song dragon familiar and the Ranger has a ring of like 6 wishes. All of these characters have an elemental immunity as well as a few spells as SLA's. Due to the DM's ideas of gestalt, he throws encounters at us far above our ECL. Also, he treats us as four levels higher, which is insane. My old character was a warblade gestalt, but was ruled as broken(:smallmad: The Dm doesn't realize how powerful spell casters are and thus never throws them at us). I tried running a Cleric/Druid, but the whole party looked at me as a Healbot. I dropped this idea, but I asked my DM's opinion on something:Retraining(:smallwink:). My DM exploded in happiness(he was apparently looking for those rules for awhile and couldn't remember the book) and in this explosion, agreed to an idea of mine.


This idea was allowing me to play an Ur Priest with the evil alignment restriction dropped. Ignoring basically the whole class, I now have the chance to play an Ur Priest/something 10. The whole group knows that I ALWAYS break a campaign, thanks to a few ideas here and there from the various Optimization forums around the net. I can't decide if I wanna run such an extremely over powered character in such an unoptimized group. If you guys agree on me dropping that, I want a good front line character. Anyone with suggestions on a class combination to help this group overcome a harsh campaign?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-07-29, 05:41 AM
I'd probably go Archivist/ something, played as a Gish/CoDzilla, picking up Sacred Exorcist so you can use DMM: Persistent. Don't even bother preparing healing spells, maybe don't even learn any just so the party won't be asking you to heal. Better yet, make it an archer character, especially since you can learn Ranger spells. I'd go Fighter on the other side with the typical (Greater) Focus/Specialization and Ranged Weapon Mastery. Go with an Outsider (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) race and Polymorph (via the Adept spell list) into an Arrow Demon (MM3). Here's a complete list (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=515321) of every spell an Archivist can learn.

Person_Man
2009-07-29, 10:01 AM
What books are allowed, and what level are you playing at?

I would drop the Ur Priest, and the idea that you should play something game breaking. Play something fun and flexible, and only break out the super powers when you're fighting the hardest of battles.

A good general strategy for gestalt combinations combine two powerful but different things (Magic, Psionics, Incarnum, and Tome of Battle) with the same dependent attributes. For example, Wizard//Warblade, Psychic Warrior//Incarnate, Totemist//Crusader, etc.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-07-29, 10:06 AM
This idea was allowing me to play an Ur Priest with the evil alignment restriction dropped. Ignoring basically the whole class, I now have the chance to play an Ur Priest/something 10.

Don't. You'll be tossing around level 9 spells at a time when a high save is +7, with maybe a +5 or +6 from ability scores and items. So at most a +13 versus a DC of at least 23, and quite likely higher. Considering a low save would be about +4 to +6, that's crazy.

The other ideas on this thread, however, look like good options.

#Raptor
2009-07-29, 10:17 AM
I don't get this, maybe I've just missed something, but...

You say your DM throws insane encounters at you.
Yet your party is also generally very low tier.

How comes there wasn't a TPK yet? How many encounters and how many deaths did you have so far?

Burley
2009-07-29, 01:32 PM
What I want to know is why, after saying it's gestalt, some of the characters have three classes (all base classes, without prestige), and one that is just a Rogue. Just rogue? What?

Your problem isn't that your DM is throwing hard stuff at you, its that your group has poor characters. The point of Gestalt is to get synergy between the classes.
Example:
Good:Rogue//Warlock uses both Eldritch Blast and Sneak Attack for heavy damage.
Bad: Ranger/Rogue/Warlock... Ranger gives bonus against favored enemies, to fill in when you can't Sneak Attack, sometimes. Decent, but there are wasted levels in there, somewhere.
Ugly:Monk//Warlock has no synergy and no overlapping ability scores. Waste of battlefield space.

These characters aren't using Gestalt to its potential... at all. The DM needs to learn that gestalt gives a player more options, not more actions. Encounters should only be slightly more difficult.

*.*.*.*
2009-07-29, 02:45 PM
What I want to know is why, after saying it's gestalt, some of the characters have three classes (all base classes, without prestige), and one that is just a Rogue. Just rogue? What?The ranger is a multiclass, I forgot to mention. The straight up Rogue had nothing else he wanted to play, so the DM just let him run with it.


Your problem isn't that your DM is throwing hard stuff at you, its that your group has poor characters. The point of Gestalt is to get synergy between the classes.
Example:
Good:Rogue//Warlock uses both Eldritch Blast and Sneak Attack for heavy damage.
Bad: Ranger/Rogue/Warlock... Ranger gives bonus against favored enemies, to fill in when you can't Sneak Attack, sometimes. Decent, but there are wasted levels in there, somewhere.
Ugly:Monk//Warlock has no synergy and no overlapping ability scores. Waste of battlefield space.

These characters aren't using Gestalt to its potential... at all. The DM needs to learn that gestalt gives a player more options, not more actions. Encounters should only be slightly more difficult.

I know that none of them know how to make characters, but I can't help it. The whole reasoning behind Monk/Warlock was Hideous Blow + Flurry of blows=Somehow good(even though the invocation says only one melee attack:smallmad:, apparently some people don't read).


What books are allowed, and what level are you playing at?Level 10 with all books(3.0-3.5 with some dragon if I show it to the DM)



A good general strategy for gestalt combinations combine two powerful but different things (Magic, Psionics, Incarnum, and Tome of Battle) with the same dependent attributes. For example, Wizard//Warblade, Psychic Warrior//Incarnate, Totemist//Crusader, etc.
My DM isn't very well versed on MOI and he believes TOM to be overpowered.




How comes there wasn't a TPK yet? How many encounters and how many deaths did you have so far?

My last character was VERY optimized, as he dominated the battlefield with ease.

Keld Denar
2009-07-29, 04:38 PM
Ur-Priest isn't SO broken if you use it in a Sacrilegious Fist build. Monk2/Duskblade3/Ur-Priest2/SacredFist10/Ordained Champion3 or something similar is pretty dandy, and only gets 9th level spells at about the same time a regular cleric would. On the other side, slide in something like Rogue for SA and skillz, Fighter for more fighty feats, or really anything. Factotum might be kinda cool as well. Buff yourself with Righteous Might and you can grapple respectably, or just plain beat people down. You can also channel your UP spells through your Duskblade channeling ability, since nothing in the actual ability description requires arcane spells.