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View Full Version : Can you please suggest creative ideas for gods to bypass a "no interference" rule?



celestialkin
2009-07-29, 05:34 AM
In my cosmology I kinda got myself stuck in a corner. I spent quite a bit of time assembling every deity and pantheon from the various official D&D sources and Dragon/Dungeon magazines I could get my hands on, but I only now realize I have already asserted a "no interference" type rule among the gods.

Basically, to avoid battling on the Material Spheres and just whipping out each others' followers with ease long ago a pact was made that limited direct interference. This pact agreement was signed by all the current gods, major elemental powers, and major planer powers of that era, and the proceedings and rulings were overseen by the primordial overdeity Death. All newer gods are subject to this pact, and so are the archdevils. The Demon Lords not so much...

However, I have already had it where a deity can sort of directly interfere. In short they must either make an agreement with the opposing deity(ies) in the situation for both sides to be able to "equally" directly interfere. If the deity does not 9such as a rash warrior deity?), then the other power(s) or apposing alignment pretty much gets a completely unrestricted freebie.

The only other major power who is not subject to the pact (so far at least) is Tharizdun for obvious reasons, which I plan to use as a campaign one day.

Anyway, so I want to make deities a big focus of my future games, but with the gods limited in what they can do I am not sure how to go about it.

Any ideas for how gods can "cheat" this system?

AstralFire
2009-07-29, 05:36 AM
Send servants bearing gifts to people who could be useful? I mean that's the pretty classic way.

Hida Reju
2009-07-29, 06:01 AM
The old ways are classic

Father or Mother a half god that acts on your behalf as an avatar in the physical world.

Pronounceable
2009-07-29, 07:16 AM
The old ways are classic

Father or Mother a half god that acts on your behalf as an avatar in the physical world.

Yep, either this, or manifest to chosen mortal(s) to urge him/her/it/them to spread the word.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-29, 08:22 AM
Any ideas for how gods can "cheat" this system?

Well, one way is to literally cheat the in-game system--make it a plot point that one of the gods has weaseled out of the agreement somehow (a lawful one might have found a loophole, a chaotic one might have found its hold on him slipping), and as none of the other gods know why they're forced to rely on mortals to figure it out.

Indon
2009-07-29, 08:40 AM
Devotees of a being could offer up children to be raised in other planes as champions of that deity - the deity would be free to pimp out the kid they're raising and just leave them to their own devices upon adulthood... which would include an offer to be returned home.

Berserk Monk
2009-07-29, 08:41 AM
Aren't clerics just supposed to be the servants of god? Just say the gods instruct their clerics to do their bidding. Clerics get most of the abilities (by which I means spells) their gods have. Just make them level appropriate for the PCs.

Tiki Snakes
2009-07-29, 09:10 AM
The way I see it, you've got all the Powers signed onto a non-interference treaty. HOWEVER, it was a very long time ago, and that does not mean that they remotely get on, or co-operate on anything.

I think the way to go is to model it on the less charitable depictions of the UN.

Simply put, there isn't any real, immediate way that they can enforce the treaty. The more motivated gods will make the appropriate nosies, but secretly they all WANT to get stuck in just the same.

Over the course of your campaign, the treaty may, or may not hold at all, as the more motivated gods give in to temptation.

Depends on who this first God who interfered is, of course. But I can see the likes of Tiamat discerning full well that the others are a useless bunch of beurocrats who have no say over her actions, and either starting to move in the prime at will, or deliberately lashing out in/at the prime in retaliation for the First God's actions...

Premier
2009-07-29, 09:25 AM
Well, some of the obvious ones have been already suggested:

- Clerics, churches, champions, avatars, etc..
- Artifacts that compel the mortal owner to do something.

Other ideas:

- Somehow give up godhood while retaining most of the power by becoming a creature that's mortal but still mighty and very, very hard to truly destroy. Your actions are no longer governed by any of the godly pacts.
- Manipulate another divine/infernal entity to do what you want done - Demon Lords are already established as willing to break the pact.
- Manipulate another god into breaking the pact and thus giving you and others the right to directly interfere. Arrange it so this interdiction will 'accidentally' achieve what you wanted done.
- Ignore the pact and be sufficiently powerful to last against any interdictions to carry out your plan. Before doing so, stow away some of your divine essence on the Prime Material. Once you're snuffed out, wait until a mortal finds that essence, uses it to gain more power, and eventually ascends to godhood, essentially become You mk. 2.
- Violate the pact, get it over with quickly, then just surrender and beg for forgiveness. The OP hasn't described what happens when a god breaks the pact, but if it's anything less than total and complete destruction, it might still be worth it. Just make sure your action cannot be reversed.

Gecks
2009-07-29, 09:29 AM
A particularly machiavellian god or godess could probably make one of those deals with the other gods to interfer in a limited way, but plan it in such a way that the effects of the agreed interferance are far beyond what the other gods expect- The god of the undead negotiating the creation of a powerful magical artifact, only to find out the artifact taints all water in a 100 mile radius with ghoul fever, or a god negotiationg with a group of deities so that each one agrees to father a half-god, half human avatar like champion to represent his or her interests, only to have the machiavellian god arrange with his/her followers that only one half-god reaches adulthood- that sort of thing.

Call of Cuthulu style ancient evil gods dwelling in the darkest corner of the multiverse, gods too old and alien to be part of any agreement, being awakened/released/called back to the material planes by their followers, would also work to introduce direct deity involvement, as would any event cataclysmic enough to cause the gods panic and agree to suspend the pack long enough to deal with it- a situation the less scruplus gods would take sure advantage of.

potatocubed
2009-07-29, 09:29 AM
How about some method for a god to redefine themselves as something else while losing none (or at best, only a little) of their power? Becoming a demon lord might be one way of doing it, or perhaps becoming mortal while retaining their power.

Perhaps one leaves all his divine power in a big 'block' on the outer planes and incarnates as a mortal champion of himself, who just so happens to have sole access to all that divine power.

Telonius
2009-07-29, 09:39 AM
In-game way of cheating it: Ur-Priests.

Lapak
2009-07-29, 10:44 AM
The easiest way of cheating the system (in terms of DIRECT divine intervention) would seem to be by manipulating the terms of the 'I get one, you get one' agreement. What are the exact terms, and how is a single interference measured?

I can see the potential to game the system from either side of that agreement.

As the Instigator: if the agreement states that the 'response' intervention has to come within a limited time window or region, delaying the Responding god or moving the conflict out of the affected area before he gets his freebie means you come out ahead. Similarly, if chosen worshipers are either exempt or are the only ones you get to affect, manipulating the people involved in the situation can give you a leg up by limiting what the retaliatory intervention can do.

As the Responder: getting your mortal representatives to set up a situation where another deity will want to intervene - giving you a freebie in return - forces them to spend their 'turn' on fixing what you had already arranged and then you get a free shot they can't respond to. It's best if this can be done subtly, obviously, and better still if it's not a direct attack by you or in your favor. If you are the God of War, having a king who worships you set up a conflict that happens to cause a famine might make the God of Agriculture to want to intervene, and you then get to respond. Or if you ARE the God of Agriculture, having your priests work to relieve tensions between warring nations might make the God of War want to make a divine appearance to re-invigorate his holy war, and you get to work your powers on the area you actually wanted to in response.

Dragonmuncher
2009-07-29, 10:46 AM
Cold War! Cold War! Cold War!

Proxy battles, do one thing while actually doing another, etc. Grant a divine rain to your worshiper's crops- such a small thing, so letting an opponent god equal it is nothing- but that rain could, I don't know, make sure that town has a trade surplus of food, growing it into a successful city, or it could wash away some trails that an invading army would have used next year, or any number of things.


I'm remembering that old book series, Animorphs. Ever read it? It's about kids fighting off an alien invasion by turning into animals. Good stuff.

In it, there's a subplot of two ultra powerful, might-as-well-be-divine beings- The good blue Ellimist and the evil red Cryak (I think? Close enough). If they ever fought each other directly, the universe would be destroyed. So they play their own version of chess.

For example, in one book, The Ellimist transports the heroes into the future, to see how awful it is and why they should give up. But while they're there, the Animorphs see a monument to a special generator built in the early days of the invasion.

So when they get back to the present, they act on the knowledge of that location to destroy that generator, and possibly change the future.


The point of all this is plausible denial, which is what your Gods need. What are they allowed to do, and how can they turn that to their greatest advantage? If every time a God moves a chess piece, so does an opposing God, that doesn't necessarily make them equal. Saving a baby from a fire may be technically equal to killing one, but not if the one who lived would grow up to save the world.

Or, even better: The baby who lives grows up to do nothing consequential throughout his entire life, save that he stops to pick up some hitchhikers (the heroes) who REALLY needed a quick lift into town.



And on, and on, etc.