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Kaihaku
2009-07-29, 07:10 AM
I've recently come upon a stack of fourth edition GURPS books. I've been quite impressed by the GM advisement, the level of detail, and the flexibility. I'll definitely use the books as resources for any Science Fiction game mastering I do in the future regardless of what system I use.

Now, here's the question though, how does the GURPS ruleset itself hold up to nWoD, FATE, 3.5, d20 modern, or 4e? I can't get a feel for how the system actually plays by just looking at some of the books. How does it flow? Obviously it's a pretty open-ended system, is it unbalanced? Any comments or insights?

mistformsquirrl
2009-07-29, 07:11 AM
I'd love to know this as well... I really want to give GURPS a go ( nearly had a campaign not long ago but it got called off); but the rules are just complex enough that I'm having a hard time comparing it >< (I think I have only the basic rules anyway though; so that probably doesn't help.)

Gnaeus
2009-07-29, 07:46 AM
The actual system is easy. Roll 3d6 for almost everything, try to roll low.

Character creation is complicated, but in a good way. You can make any character you can imagine with the proper sourcebooks, but it may take you a while to find all the parts to it in various books.

There are lots of optional rules in various books also. These can make the game rather more complicated.

Gurps combat is deadly. Thats good or bad depending on your outlook (although the fact that character creation can take a while makes it annoying to die in your first fight, and then have to sit out the game cranking out a new character). A couple of low value mooks can really threaten more powerful characters.

Edit: It is a point based system. Therefore it is clearly "unbalanced" in that differently made characters will not be remotely equal in combat. It is also clearly "balanced" in that you can't make a 3.5 tier 1 style character who is better than other characters at everything they do. Every character will have areas where they shine.

mikeejimbo
2009-07-29, 07:52 AM
GURPS is whatever you want it or need it to be. Want fights to be less deadly? "Turn on" cinematic combat rules. Give your PCs Hard to Kill 2 for free.

It takes more GM work than nWoD, D&D 4e and the like, and combat can get especially complicated, but in a manner that allows for a lot of depth and strategy.

GURPS is a rewarding system that gives back what you put into it. And character creation gets much quicker once you've done it a few times.

Edit: I should note that it can be unbalanced when Munchkiny players get their hands on GURPS Powers... or even a lot of stuff in the Basic Set. It's up to the GM to enforce balance, though, by limiting Advantages players can take to things that make sense in the world they're trying to run.

Epinephrine
2009-07-29, 08:10 AM
I loved GURPS back when we ran it (whatever edition it was in back in the late eighties/early nineties, 3rd I think?); it is completely customizable to the level of detail you want. Don't want to deal with it locations? Fine, they're optional. Want to allow them? Great, you can cripple someone's hand with little risk of killing them, as long as you are accurate enough.

Game play was a little slow in combat if you are using all the rules, and fights sometimes devolved into waiting for a critical hit or a failed parry. At the same time, fights were brutal and realistic - slide your rapier through someone's eye and you've ended the fight. I imagine they've stuck close to this in 4th?

The hex-based system was great, especially how there are actually facings for the characters, and you have a defined visible arc (so something really can be happening behind your back). Of course, it helps that each round is one second long...

jmbrown
2009-07-29, 08:42 AM
I enjoy the fact that everything is played with 3 dice and GURPS splat books are detailed with tons of options available. GURPS Space for example has a detailed chapter on creating your own living solar system.

I don't find character creation at all time consuming but combat is ridiculous and requires a tactical map to be played properly. Because of that (it's especially bad when vehicles come into play) I fudge the rules for movement by using the character's base speed to determine how far they can go. I also discarded facing direction and made it so that moving to someone's side costs 2 points of movement and moving to their flank costs 3. You can still sneak behind a person but I had to completely remove the whole "In order to turn you must first move a hex then turn then move a hex then BLAH BLAH BLAH"

Honestly GURPS is my favorite system. It has the flexibility of the HERO system with only half of the number crunching and death by CHARTS CHARTS CHARTS CHARTS.

valadil
2009-07-29, 08:43 AM
GURPs depends on the game and on the game master more than other settings. It has way too many rules for all of them to fit into a single game. You want a GM who is aware of the rules and picks and chooses the ones he wants to make the game play out correctly. In this way, GURPs is more of a framework than other RPG systems.

Comet
2009-07-29, 08:46 AM
GURPS is not my cup of roleplaying tea.
It places too much responsibility on me as a GM and doesn't help enough. It's just too general.
I do like the idea of a truly universal rpg, but I don't have the patience or real interest to learn the system.

mikeejimbo
2009-07-29, 09:01 AM
I enjoy the fact that everything is played with 3 dice and GURPS splat books are detailed with tons of options available. GURPS Space for example has a detailed chapter on creating your own living solar system.

I don't find character creation at all time consuming but combat is ridiculous and requires a tactical map to be played properly. Because of that (it's especially bad when vehicles come into play) I fudge the rules for movement by using the character's base speed to determine how far they can go. I also discarded facing direction and made it so that moving to someone's side costs 2 points of movement and moving to their flank costs 3. You can still sneak behind a person but I had to completely remove the whole "In order to turn you must first move a hex then turn then move a hex then BLAH BLAH BLAH"

Honestly GURPS is my favorite system. It has the flexibility of the HERO system with only half of the number crunching and death by CHARTS CHARTS CHARTS CHARTS.

I personally have had good experiences with simple combat without the tactical map.

Lukraak
2009-07-29, 09:23 AM
I'd have to agree with the other posters.
As a system its relatively simple with just the basic book, which you can expand as much as you want with the various expansions and stuff.

Character creation does take a while longer than usual, but it also gives players a more fleshed out character to start with as you have to think about what to buy and why your character would have it.
In general your characters start out a lot more competent then the average, but this is offset by the lethality of combat and the fact that its harder to get a LOT better than you start out with.

Combat can be as complex as you want, 3d edition at least also had rules for those that wanted to bring it down to 1 or 2 rolls maximum per action.

In general it does require more GM work than most other settings, although some pre-made settings are available that reduce that work.
I do like it a lot when you want to do a homebrew campaign, because of its flexible rules you can crash a spaceship on a medieval/magic world and just play, without having to totally invent rules on magic or tech that are balanced and then throw in anything you want.

Its advantage/disadvantage system does open it up to horrible min/maxing though, which can unbalance your game. Also, the sheer number of supplements available can be a bother when trying to look up that one obscure power someone took in mid combat.

But mainly, and like all systems, it comes down to what the players and GM are like. We always had great fun playing it, but I know an equal number of people that find it bland and/or too complex

Cyrion
2009-07-29, 09:31 AM
The only thing I haven't been enthusiastic about is the magic system. On the one hand, the spell pre-requisite system is cool, but the pre-req web can make it very difficult to do a focused wizard. Also, it takes some adjustment to get used to the much smaller area of effect and distance constraints. I've played in two or three different genre of games and GM'd one and really enjoyed the flexibility and simplicity. It's designed so that if there isn't a rule (or you don't know the rule) roll three dice, compare to a relevant skill and punt if you have to.

Fhaolan
2009-07-29, 09:34 AM
GURPS is... exactly what you put into it.

It's almost to the point I would say GURPS isn't really a game, it's a toolbox for building a game. Unless you're willing to put the effort into the building process, GURPS won't really work for you.

For example, there's a huge list of skills, advantages and disadvantages any character can choose to have with associated point costs. However, few of them are appropriate for any game. The rules allow you to build a immobile psychic rock as a character, if you really want to. However outside of some very specific campaigns, this is not a valid character. Just because it's in the ruleset doesn't mean it's valid for the game you're wanting to play. The GM and the players need to agree as to what options are available.

mikeejimbo
2009-07-29, 09:45 AM
Its advantage/disadvantage system does open it up to horrible min/maxing though, which can unbalance your game. Also, the sheer number of supplements available can be a bother when trying to look up that one obscure power someone took in mid combat.

Fourth Edition is much better with that. Most of the powers are in two books.


The only thing I haven't been enthusiastic about is the magic system. On the one hand, the spell pre-requisite system is cool, but the pre-req web can make it very difficult to do a focused wizard. Also, it takes some adjustment to get used to the much smaller area of effect and distance constraints. I've played in two or three different genre of games and GM'd one and really enjoyed the flexibility and simplicity. It's designed so that if there isn't a rule (or you don't know the rule) roll three dice, compare to a relevant skill and punt if you have to.

GURPS Thaumatology is an entire book on how to customize the magic system, invent new magic systems, and the like.

mcv
2009-07-29, 11:18 AM
It's almost to the point I would say GURPS isn't really a game, it's a toolbox for building a game. Unless you're willing to put the effort into the building process, GURPS won't really work for you.

This is definitely true. You can do almost anything in GURPS, but it's not always easy to do. The default rules are quite realistic and complex, but in GURPS, everything is optional. And there's a lot more options to tune your game into what you want it to be.

First decide on which skills and (dis)advantages are appropriate for your game. If it's your first game, limit yourself. In fact, get GURPS Lite, and use only that. It'll make the system a lot easier to handle.

After you get the hang of it, you can add more, and tweak what you already have. The system is very tweakable, but be careful not to tweak anything you don't understand yet. First try it as-is, and only when you grok, tweak it.

Avoid GURPS Powers for now.

For combat, there's a couple of levels of detail to choose from. Decide how important combat is for you, and how much time you want to invest in each fight. Also keep in mind that combat can be incredibly deadly, especially in a high-tech setting. In a low-tech setting it may actually be less deadly than D&D. You don't have the comfortably big HP buffer you have in D&D, but you've got lots of room for only going unconcious, or for keeping fighting despite being deep in negative HP.

But it's better not to take any unnecessary risks. A fight until fleeing or surrender is a much better idea than a fight to the death.