[3.5] Cohort Decision

[OMG PONIES]

Hello wise playgrounders! I'm currently creating a character for a (modified) level 6 campaign, and I'm torn between two cohort ideas:

1. Drow Bard 3/Conjurer 1 (with Song of the Heart, Words of Creation, and Abrupt Jaunt)
2. Feral Half-Ogre Barbarian 2/Crusader 2 (with Spiked Chain and Mage Slayer feat tree)

It's going to be one of these two, so I'd rather not hear other cohort ideas unless they're ridiculously awesome. I just don't know if I'd rather have a party-boosting controller or an anti-magic tank. Our party is level 6, and we have an artificer, a druid, a scout, a rogue, and a cleric (me). I'm concerned with the bard/wizard I'd be trying to keep him alive the whole time, but I'm also concerned that the half-ogre would be a one-trick pony (trips galore).

While I wouldn't usually consider LA races, the DM has changed the LA rules so that both characters above are still 4th level (and, as such, acceptable cohorts). Also, if I select the drow, can I (and should I) go with the Dragontouced+Dragonfire Inspiration route?

So, fellow gamers, should it be the spell-resisting spellcaster? Or the big tripping monster?

[KillianHawkeye]

If you're Level 6, then the highest level cohort you can have with the Leadership feat is Level 4 (including Racial Hit Dice and Level Adjustment), no matter how high your Leadership Score is.

Think of something else.

[kamikasei]

If you're Level 6, then the highest level cohort you can have with the Leadership feat is Level 4 (including Racial Hit Dice and Level Adjustment), no matter how high your Leadership Score is.

You know, that was my immediate reaction, but when I checked the SRD it just says "Cohort Level" - it doesn't specify class or character or ECL. Is it made explicit anywhere else?

Of course, there's always the point that even if it's not made explicit the OP still risks being clobbered with a DMG.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

You know, that was my immediate reaction, but when I checked the SRD it just says "Cohort Level" - it doesn't specify class or character or ECL. Is it made explicit anywhere else?

Of course, there's always the point that even if it's not made explicit the OP still risks being clobbered with a DMG.

True. Yet the fact that the monster manual has listed level adjustments with the phrase (cohort) behind them clarifies this, in my mind. Take the Winter Wolf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/winterWolf.htm) for example. Based on this, I'm pretty confident saying that cohorts are run by ECL rather than CL.

Also, the D&D Glossary at the Wizards website has the following lines in their article on Level Adjustment (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_leveladjustment&alpha=):

These creatures have a level adjustment entry, which is a number that is added to the creature's total Hit Dice to arrive at its effective character level. A creature with multiple special abilities is more powerful as a player character than its Hit Dice alone would indicate. For example, a drow elf has spell resistance, bonuses to its ability scores, and spell-like abilities. Its level adjustment of +2 indicates that a 1st-level drow wizard is the equivalent of a 3rd-level character.

The last one is especially important. A 1st-level drow wizard (LA +1) is the equivalent of a 3rd-level character. It doesn't say that it enters play when the others are 3rd level, it says that it is the equivalent of a 3rd level character.

By this wording, your Feral (+1) Half-Ogre (+2) Barbarian 4 (4 real levels) is the equivalent of a 7th level character. His actual level is 4, his effective character level is 7, but the important part for leadership is that he is the equivalent of a 7th level character, and thus ineligible to be your cohort at this level.

[kamikasei]

True. Yet the fact that the monster manual has listed level adjustments with the phrase (cohort) behind them clarifies this, in my mind.

That'll do nicely.

[Darcand]

Find out if the DM will let you take eight kobolds instead

[OMG PONIES]

Sorry, editing above for clarity. The DM is changing things so that LA simply lowers point-buy. Essentially, I can play a 0-LA with 38-point buy, +1 LA with 34-point buy, +2 with 30 point-buy, etc. So in this case, the two options listed are considered 4th level characters, and are acceptable cohorts.

As for the 8 kobolds, that's what lower-level followers are for! Haha. Basically, I'm playing a half-celestial human who worships himself as a deity, and I don't know if I want my cohort to be a party face or a bodyguard.

[Fenix_of_Doom]

Sorry, editing above for clarity. The DM is changing things so that LA simply lowers point-buy. Essentially, I can play a 0-LA with 38-point buy, +1 LA with 34-point buy, +2 with 30 point-buy, etc. So in this case, the two options listed are considered 4th level characters, and are acceptable cohorts.

While LA in general sucks, that is still ridiculous overpowered, nobody who optimizes would pick a non LA race ever.

[zarakstan]

While LA in general sucks, that is still ridiculous overpowered, nobody who optimizes would pick a non LA race ever.

Yes that is true! Who would play a non-LA character? :smalltongue:
And about it being "level of the cohort" or "ECL of the cohort" if it was the former couldn't I have a 1st level pit fiend as a cohort at 3rd level or am I misunderstanding?

[Kallisti]

Also, if I select the drow, can I (and should I) go with the Dragontouced+Dragonfire Inspiration route?


Take the drow, take the feats, then take Words of Creation from Book of Exalted Deeds. At that level, your inspire courage is worth +1, but with Song of the Heart that increases to +2. Then you cast INspirational Boost from Spell Compendium to raise it to +3. Then you use Words of Creation to double it to +6. Then you use Dragon-freakin-fire Ispiration. At sixth level, a cohort who throws +6d6 fire on all of everyone's attacks is a terror to behold. You've already got the Words of Creation and the Song of the Heart...

Heed the wisdom of one who plays bards that are game-breakingly powerful. The bard is better. Much better.

Also, the feat Melodic Casting lets you cast spells without ceasing to sing, so take it, it rocks...

Also, why drow? Go pixie instead. The huge number of stat bonuses more than make up for LA +6 (-24 point buy, for a total of six.) Invest your six buy points in your charisma, which gets a +8 from pixie on top of whatever you buy. You'll have good wisdom, decent int, good dex, decent con, freakin' amazing charisma, a boatload of spell-like abilities, including the ever-amusing Permanent Image, and constant invisibility. Greater invisiblity. Sure, you'll have strength four, but when you're a bard, all you ever need to carry are a few scrolls. It's beyond worth it. Way beyond worth it.

[SinsI]

Hello wise playgrounders! I'm currently creating a character for a (modified) level 6 campaign, and I'm torn between two cohort ideas:

1. Drow Bard 3/Conjurer 1 (with Song of the Heart, Words of Creation, and Abrupt Jaunt)
2. Feral Half-Ogre Barbarian 2/Crusader 2 (with Spiked Chain and Mage Slayer feat tree)

How the hell did a Feral Half-Ogre Barbarian get those Crusader levels?

Pick the one that is more interesting for you from the roleplay POV.

[OMG PONIES]

Thanks be to all for your help! It's an optimizer's dream. I'm definitely bulking up on my Inspire Fiery Death...but I can't play a pixie, since the DM capped LA at a +4. So, for silly LOLs, should I just say screw it and make a WINGED Drow Bard/Conjurer? Anyone know any good templates or races (max LA +2) that either boost INT & CHA or give silly powers? Allowed sources are:

MM1 only
Savage Species
Book of Exalted Deeds
Book of Vile Darkness
Completes
Frostburn
Stormwrack
Heroes of Battle
Libris Mortis

[Douglas]

This may or may not be allowed, depending on the definition of "core and therefore assumed allowed without needing it on the list", but phrenic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm) fits the bill nicely. It's in the SRD, so many people consider it "core", which is why I'm mentioning it even though the Expanded Psionics Handbook is not on your list of allowed sources.

[OMG PONIES]

My mistake. XPH is allowed, I just omitted it. Posting at work, so I don't have the list of available sources at hand. I hard heard of "phrenic," but forgot where it was from. I'll check it out.