Once off the railroad tracks...

[Umael]

As I plot my next game session (of Iron Heroes), I find myself plotting the "what if" sessions, making sure there is enough motivation for the PCs to follow the bread crumbs.

To wit, the game session involves the PCs going into this one village. But as I write it, I realize that there might be a logical reason to avoid the village. So I come up with a counter. But they still might avoid the counter. So I come up with a counter to the avoidance. But they might STILL avoid the counter to the... you get the idea.

At this point, I have plotting a half-naked woman running out of the village, obviously terrifying and in danger, being chased by several irate cultists. Ideally, the PCs would step in and save her... but what if they don't?

I don't think they would - they are "good guys", after all, and I know what motives the players. Still... I have to wonder...

Has this happened to any of you?

(P.S. At this point, I'm basically saying, "Well, if they don't save the woman, screw it. The PCs are bastards, the woman is dead, and the game goes on.")

[MickJay]

The next village they arrive at suddenly becomes "this one village", where you continue the plot as if nothing happened :smallbiggrin:

Of course, this works best if the players aren't aware of that, and think that the previous village had a different plot hook. Alternatively, make the NPCs of the other place reveal some new information/give a new quest that makes it necessary for PCs to go back. OR, use part of one of PCs' backstory to lure them into the village. That's what the backstories are for. :smalltongue:

[Kaziel]

There's always "Plan B".

Plan B states as such: If you repeatedly ignore the plot hooks (and we're not talking casually just missing it, but actively avoiding it and turning it down more than once), a dragon comes and eats the party.

For a while, one of my DMs had that written up on a piece of cardboard and hung it from the wall whenever we'd play. :smallbiggrin:

[The Dark Fiddler]

If they don't, hit them over the head for being jackdonkeys and keep going. But make sure it bites them in the butt. Maybe that lady was a princess, and its discovered that they could have saved her, and then they're not welcome in the town/state/region anymore, or are actively pursued even.

Or, as you said, just say "Well, if they don't save the woman, screw it. The PCs are bastards, the woman is dead, and the game goes on."

But if they do this regularly, make sure they drop an alignment.

[Cedrass]

Well, there was this one time when I had prepared a cave with a little clan of Kobold worshipping a dead Dragon (I can't remember why sorry).

So they go and travel to an other country to meet someone (it's been 4 years, details are... non-existent sorry) and I tell them they end up in front of a mountain and there this cave with some light inside. They decide not to go in... :smallannoyed:
I hate railroading, at least I hate when the players know they are being railroaded, so I let them use an other route. I then made them use a "tunnel" the countries used to pass the mountains to make travel easier, it was the exact same cave, and I just found a reason for the Kobolds to have invaded. They never noticed, and I didn't waste time planning the billions of possibilities.

[Raum]

As I plot my next game session (of Iron Heroes), I find myself plotting the "what if" sessions, making sure there is enough motivation for the PCs to follow the bread crumbs.If you're trying to leave the tracks as the thread title implies, don't worry about what the PCs may or may not do. Seriously. If the PCs choose not to follow up on a hook, the NPC antagonist succeeds at whatever they were doing and the world changes in some fashion. The PCs get to deal with the consequences.


To wit, the game session involves the PCs going into this one village. But as I write it, I realize that there might be a logical reason to avoid the village. So I come up with a counter. But they still might avoid the counter. So I come up with a counter to the avoidance. But they might STILL avoid the counter to the... you get the idea.If you're trying to 'counter' (or oppose) PC actions you're still building tracks.


At this point, I have plotting a half-naked woman running out of the village, obviously terrifying and in danger, being chased by several irate cultists. Ideally, the PCs would step in and save her... but what if they don't?Then Bad StuffTM happens. The PCs should hear about it later - news, rumors, complaints, boasts, or whatever - and figure out at least some of what went down. The world itself may get a bit darker...after all, the bad guys are winning. Even if the win is handed to them by PC inaction.


I don't think they would - they are "good guys", after all, and I know what motives the players. Still... I have to wonder...

Has this happened to any of you?Of course! It's great! The story gets interesting and engaging when things start to go wrong.


(P.S. At this point, I'm basically saying, "Well, if they don't save the woman, screw it. The PCs are bastards, the woman is dead, and the game goes on.")Yes, but too simple. Ask yourself what out of the result can make the game more interesting...then add it.

Given your example - Who was the woman? Who saw the PC's ignore her plight? What do observers / relatives / authorities think of their inaction? What did the cultists get out of her capture / sacrifice / death? Are they more powerful now? Are townspeople less willing to cross the cultists? Less trusting of the PCs? Maybe the cultists try to recruit the PCs...after all they didn't seem to object, maybe they'd be willing to help.

In many ways, failure starts you down a far more interesting trail than simple rescue. Have fun with it!

[Thane of Fife]

If you're trying to leave the tracks as the thread title implies, don't worry about what the PCs may or may not do. Seriously. If the PCs choose not to follow up on a hook, the NPC antagonist succeeds at whatever they were doing and the world changes in some fashion. The PCs get to deal with the consequences.

This need not be true. You can have some other group of adventurers do it. Then the PCs get to hear stories about how awesome those other guys are, and all the sweet rewards they got.

There are many ways to bait a hook.

[Umael]

Thanks for the advice, but I wasn't really looking for any. It was more a matter of covering my bases.

I've got the village named and the PCs have been given a mission/quest/plot to find a book, which was stolen by a thief who was last seen in this particular village.

The issue is, when the PCs get close to the village, they are going to get ambushed by about 30 villagers and a massive net. The villagers will be all sad and apologetic, but determined to take at least one of them prisoner (to be sacrificed). I figure there will be a fight, net or no net, and the moment one of the villagers falls, the rest of the villagers turn on him and carry their fallen comrade away to be the sacrifice.

A few of the villagers will stay behind to prevent the PCs from interfering with the capture of the sacrifice and the sacrifice itself, but I got to the point where the PCs would get out of the net and realized, "Okay, if I was them, would I be interested in going into that village? They just jumped me, and then turned on one of their own."

That got me thinking, not so much with my players and their characters, but just in general, what would someone else's group do?

I should probably add that they were offered a sizable amount of gold to get this book (from multiple interested parties) as the carrot. The stick? One of the PC's has a father who is basically in trouble with the Mob and if he can't pay, he'll probably lose his shipping business, his life, and maybe they would go after the PC as well.

(For the record, the PCs are 2nd level, the world is nasty, and Iron Heroes uses a low-magic setting. Running from the Mob is possible, but not likely.)

Sorry if I left out a few critical details there...

[Raum]

This need not be true. You can have some other group of adventurers do it. Then the PCs get to hear stories about how awesome those other guys are, and all the sweet rewards they got.That's certainly a possibility but does it make the story more interesting? It may if you can foster a sense of competition between the PCs and the other group. But, other than competition, the world hasn't changed. Deus Ex Machina stepped in to save it. What do you have to tie to the PCs' choice which will draw them deeper into the story?


The issue is, when the PCs get close to the village, they are going to get ambushed by about 30 villagers and a massive net. The villagers will be all sad and apologetic, but determined to take at least one of them prisoner (to be sacrificed). I figure there will be a fight, net or no net, and the moment one of the villagers falls, the rest of the villagers turn on him and carry their fallen comrade away to be the sacrifice.

A few of the villagers will stay behind to prevent the PCs from interfering with the capture of the sacrifice and the sacrifice itself, but I got to the point where the PCs would get out of the net and realized, "Okay, if I was them, would I be interested in going into that village? They just jumped me, and then turned on one of their own."Sounds interesting. Depending on the players, you may want to emphasize the 'non-lethal' nature of the attack to prevent a bloodbath. Or not. :smallamused: It will hand them an interesting dilemma though...relief at no longer being attacked, curiosity and perhaps apprehension at seeing someone else taken...sounds like an interesting situation.


That got me thinking, not so much with my players and their characters, but just in general, what would someone else's group do?That's why we play! :smallsmile:

As for what groups I've gamed with would do - that depends on the group / character personalities and ethics. I've seen similar choices go a variety of different ways. Ran the gamut between self sacrifice to venal self interest to active participation.

[Friv]

There's always "Plan B".

Plan B states as such: If you repeatedly ignore the plot hooks (and we're not talking casually just missing it, but actively avoiding it and turning it down more than once), a dragon comes and eats the party.

For a while, one of my DMs had that written up on a piece of cardboard and hung it from the wall whenever we'd play. :smallbiggrin:

Man, Plan B sounds awful.



In my own games, it tends to depend. If I can get the players back onto the designed plot in the near future, I'll generally save it in order to save prep time and try a different approach. A lot of the time, I just try to get a grasp on what motivates my PCs so I can tailor hooks to them.

If it'll be interesting, I can let the plot just keep going, or allow other NPCs to stumble onto it later. If the PCs are chatting with NPCs in a tavern a couple of months later, and find out that they got that quest, it adds a touch of versimilitude to the setting.

[DragonBaneDM]

Hahaha.

I'd be tempted to make a party of goody-goody NPCs with Class Templates that come and save the day.

They have more prestige, do all the quests first, get all the magic items, and then get all the money.

:P

It's just something I'd wanna do in your shoes.