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SethFahad
2009-07-30, 03:41 AM
Ok we have a human fighter-type PC (high STR & CON, low WIS & CHA) that stinks on will saves. He gained a new level of experience.
Any ideas on what class or prc or feat is a good choice to fix this.
I was looking for something like the CHANNELED RAGE feat, but there’s half-orc requirements.

Please, NO MAGIC ITEMS OR BUFFS.

Stats: STR 20 DEX 12 CON 16 INT 10 WIS 8 CHA 8
Barbarian 1, Fighter 5, Frenz.Berserker 1
Weapon: +1 Large Keen Great Falchion. (monkey grp)

Clearly his a combat-brute. But if someone charms him...then the rest of the team is doomed. In addition if he fails the WIll save required to stop his frenzy after killing all enemies... we are doomed again...

Amiria
2009-07-30, 03:52 AM
Scorpion's Resolve (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Scorpion~s_Resolve,Sa) feat from Sandstorm. Doesn't cover all things where you need a Will save but gives a nice high bonus against mind-affecting stuff.

If you have one more feat to burn, you could instead take Steadfast Determination (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Steadfast_Determination,) (and its prerequisite Endurance) to get you high Con modifier instead of your low Wis modifier on Will saves.

evil-frosty
2009-07-30, 04:04 AM
There is the standby Iron will a nice +2 but then again i dont have access to a lot of books so there might be probably are much better options out there.

Ianuagonde
2009-07-30, 04:09 AM
Steadfast Determination is indeed very good. My dwarven fighter is very happy with it. The prerequisite is a bit of a bummer, but on the plus side, SD also helps your Fort Save a bit.

Just remembered that Endurance lets you sleep in medium armor. That has helped on several occasions.

SethFahad
2009-07-30, 04:11 AM
Scorpions Resolve is nice, but covers half of the problem.
Steadfast Determination is great but he doesn't meet the prerequesites.

Something else?

mabriss lethe
2009-07-30, 04:22 AM
Opting for a few levels of any class with a good will save is a start.

Iron will for a quick patch.

A few levels of binder never hurt anything... Gives you good fort/will saves and you can boost your saves by an additional bit if that's how you want to spend your augmentation. (and unlike spells and spell-like abilities, you can use supernatural abilities while raging...nice huh?)

Fey Heritage will give you a +3 vs enchantment effects.

But a decent chunk of it will have to come from items

AslanCross
2009-07-30, 04:28 AM
If Tome of Battle is allowed, take Warblade. Put your skill points in Concentration and take Diamond Mind maneuvers (namely, Moment of Perfect Mind).

Moment of Perfect Mind allows you to substitute a Concentration check for a Fort save. Assuming that you only have 10 Int, you can still put all 4 skill points from Warblade into Concentration. Assuming your CON is 18, that's an instant +8 to Will Saves. Warblades can recover maneuvers every other turn, so you'll never run out.

Even just taking the Martial Study feat and taking Moment of Perfect Mind will add Concentration to your class skill list. Due to your lame skill points per level, though, you'll be better off taking Warblade.

Also: Warblade multiclasses well with Fighter.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-07-30, 04:43 AM
Ok we have a human fighter-type PC (high STR & CON, low WIS & CHA) that stinks on will saves. He gained a new level of experience.
Any ideas on what class or prc or feat is a good choice to fix this.
I was looking for something like the CHANNELED RAGE feat, but there’s half-orc requirements.

Please, NO MAGIC ITEMS OR BUFFS.

Stats: STR 20 DEX 12 CON 16 INT 10 WIS 8 CHA 8
Barbarian 1, Fighter 5, Frenz.Berserker 1
Weapon: +1 Large Keen Great Falchion. (monkey grp)


Get rid of Monkey Grip if possible, replace with Endurance, and take Steadfast Determination.

SethFahad
2009-07-30, 04:53 AM
I don't know if a Concentration chk is on the papers when you are under rage and/or frenzy...


Get rid of Monkey Grip if possible, replace with Endurance, and take Steadfast Determination.

Can't do. The Falchion he's carying is essential to the plot, and without Monkey Grip he won't be able to wield it...

WeeFreeMen
2009-07-30, 04:59 AM
If its a Large weapon, you can dump Monkey grip, and instead of 1 handing it, why not 2 hand it? If I recall that lowers the negatives?

Or am I daft. >_<

SethFahad
2009-07-30, 05:01 AM
If its a Large weapon, you can dump Monkey grip, and instead of 1 handing it, why not 2 hand it? If I recall that lowers the negatives?

Or am I daft. >_<

Falchion and Great Falchion is a two handed weapon.

WeeFreeMen
2009-07-30, 05:06 AM
Oh, well then sorry if this is off topic, but then what is Monkey Grip doing for you?

Does it let you take a THW and bring it down to one? Or is it just for Large weapons? I was always fuzzy on the feat >_<

Sorry.

Eloel
2009-07-30, 05:10 AM
Steadfast Determination would give you +4, since your Con is 8 over your Wis.
Indomitable Will lets you roll twice, and take the better. Yum.

SethFahad
2009-07-30, 05:11 AM
Oh, well then sorry if this is off topic, but then what is Monkey Grip doing for you?

Does it let you take a THW and bring it down to one? Or is it just for Large weapons? I was always fuzzy on the feat >_<

Sorry.

It lets you wield a 1 size category larger weapon normally (if its one handed then one handed etc) and take the usual -2 penalty.
without this feat, you can only wield a larger one-handed weapon with two hands and you CANT wield a larger 2-handed weapon at all.

WeeFreeMen
2009-07-30, 05:13 AM
It lets you wield a 1 size category larger weapon normally (if its one handed then one handed etc) and take the usual -2 penalty.
without this feat, you can only wield a larger one-handed weapon with two hands and you CANT wield a larger 2-handed weapon at all.

Ah thank you, that clears it up vastly.

SethFahad
2009-07-30, 05:15 AM
Steadfast Determination would give you +4, since your Con is 8 over your Wis.
Indomitable Will lets you roll twice, and take the better. Yum.

More info about this one??? A reference please? :smallamused:

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-07-30, 05:15 AM
I guess you'll just have to ask the party caster for a Protection from Evil or Heroism.

Eloel
2009-07-30, 05:16 AM
More info about this one??? A reference please? :smallamused:

Indomitable Soul, wrote it wrong up there.
It lets you roll 2d20 against mind-effecting and fear, and use the higher one.
It's relatively core too, PHB2.

AslanCross
2009-07-30, 05:21 AM
I don't know if a Concentration chk is on the papers when you are under rage and/or frenzy...


Ah crud, didn't see that it was a Frezerker build. XP Sorry.

SethFahad
2009-07-30, 05:21 AM
Damn! DAMN! Bloody prerequisites! :smallfurious:
It needs Iron will plus Endurance!!!

Eloel
2009-07-30, 05:42 AM
May I learn, WHY, just WHY you have 5 levels of Fighter? Get Ranger 1, Rogue 1, anything to avoid an odd Fighter level. My suggestion would be having;
Barb 2/Fighter 2/Feat Rogue 2/Anything 1 into FB.
Granted, you lose a level, but you gain great stuff in return...

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-07-30, 05:45 AM
Ranger 3 gets you Endurance as a bonus feat, and skill points, but it doesn't seem as if you can retool.

SethFahad
2009-07-30, 05:55 AM
5 levels of fighter... in order to advance to 6 levels of fighter and get another feat (can't have enough of them) :smallbiggrin:
Seriously, rogue is BAD choice because of the 0 BAB. FrBrsrk needs BAB+6.
Besides, he is a brute. He is not bright, not canny, not sneaky. Just insane and paranoid. :smallbiggrin:
Believe me it's the first time in my life I take more than 2 levels of fighter... but...

Eloel
2009-07-30, 05:59 AM
5 levels of fighter... in order to advance to 6 levels of fighter and get another feat (can't have enough of them) :smallbiggrin:
Seriously, rogue is BAD choice because of the 0 BAB. FrBrsrk needs BAB+6.
Besides, he is a brute. He is not bright, not canny, not sneaky. Just insane and paranoid. :smallbiggrin:
Believe me it's the first time in my life I take more than 2 levels of fighter... but...

Feat Rogue gains 2 feats over first 2 levels. You also get 1.5 BAB, which, when added to even Wizard BAB, gives you 2 BAB, losing a single level. You don't need to be sneaky, skills don't hurt though. Advance in FrBrsrk, instead of Fighter. It's capstone is just that much better.

Sinfire Titan
2009-07-30, 08:07 AM
I don't know if a Concentration chk is on the papers when you are under rage and/or frenzy...



Can't do. The Falchion he's carying is essential to the plot, and without Monkey Grip he won't be able to wield it...

2 words: Strongarm Bracers. 2K, same effect, no -2 penalty to the attack roll.






Every time someone says they have to have Monkey Grip on their character, GOD kills a Squirtle.

Fixer
2009-07-30, 09:04 AM
One feat, as you have the CON to support it: Shape Soulmeld

Select Planar Ward as your soulmeld.
Your planar ward protects you from mental control. It blocks any attempt to possess you (by a magic jar attack, for example) or exercise mental control over you, including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over you. The protection does not prevent such effects from targeting you, but it supresses the effect for the duration of the planar ward effect.Now, Soulmelds can be dispelled so you aren't 100% safe, but reshaping a soulmeld only requires a bit of rest.

Eldariel
2009-07-30, 09:24 AM
You could take the "Resolute" Alternative Class Feature [Complete Champion] for Fighter - allows transferring half of your BAB to Will as an Immediate Action. Replaces an even-leveled Fighter bonus feat.

Also, take Barbarian 2 over Fighter 5 given that Fighter 5 is useless. Other than that, go for Steadfast Determination and life is good. You should be breaking ~15 really soon (right now, you'd have +3 Con + 2 in Rage + 2 Morale + 3 Resolute + 2 Base for +12). This does cost you 3 feats though. Some alternative Totem Barbarians could get you some prerequisites.

Wolf-Totem offers Improved Trip, for one, and Bear-Totem has Improved Grapple. But yeah, rework your levels a bit and get those bonus feats.


For feats:
You get 3 from levels, 3 from Fighter-levels. 1 from Human. This gets you:
-4 FB prerequisites
-Monkey Grip (just ask it for free since the feat sucks...)
-2 of the three feats (Resolute & Endurance)

If you could take two Flaws, you'd have enough feats to also afford Steadfast Determination and Extra Rage (it should apply to both, Frenzy & Rage separately).

Person_Man
2009-07-30, 11:06 AM
Can't do. The Falchion he's carying is essential to the plot, and without Monkey Grip he won't be able to wield it...

Not true. He could buy Stormarm Bracers (Magic Item Compendium) which essentially grant Monkey Grip. Or he could ask someone to cast Enlarge Person on him.

In regards to the Will Save problem, if he sticks with Fighter there's an alternate class feature (forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=967118) in Complete Champion called Resolute. As an immediate action, reduce your BAB by half and add that amount to your will save for one round. Also, a simple Protection from Evil spell cast by a friend prevents charm or compulsion effects.

Edit: Damn Ninja!! That should teach me to hit "Reply" then work for a few hours, then go back to screwing around on the internets.

AstralFire
2009-07-30, 11:10 AM
Your work ethic needs help, Person Man. Here, have a pillow and a game boy.

woodenbandman
2009-07-30, 11:11 AM
Endurance + Iron Will (I believe that there are classes/other things you can do to get these feats, like the Otyugh hole) -> Steadfast Determination + Indomitable soul. Roll 2d20 on a will save and take the better of the two results. And use your CON modifier on will saves.

zarakstan
2009-07-30, 01:56 PM
Every time someone says they have to have Monkey Grip on their character, GOD kills a Squirtle.

Sigg'd That was epic :smalltongue:

Kallisti
2009-07-30, 02:04 PM
I second the Shape Soulmeld option if you can find a way to justify it in-character. Not that much harder that Totem Barbarian...

If it seriously just won't work for you for some reason, Strongarm Bracers+Endurance (Which also lets you sleep in your armor! Never be ambushed again!) then Indomitable Soul or Steadfast determination.

ericgrau
2009-07-30, 02:12 PM
If you're worried about charming/domination/enchantment(compulsion) and only such effects, then there's a first level spell called protection from evil and a longer lasting 3rd level spell called magic circle against evil. I'd usually go with the magic circle for out-of-combat buffing, to save combat time and prevent surprise charms. If charming is such a big deal, it's almost the responsibility of your party caster to tag you with it. Or at least grab some potions yourself. If it's just that one effect your'e worried about, I'm not sure I'd even bother boosting your will save. I mean, what's the big deal about an effect when a 1st/3rd level spell stops even the level 9 version of it?

But if you're worried about other will saves, I'd try dragon disciple: Good will saves, the pre-req dip adds another +2 (for a total of +4 right of the bat), and the stat bonuses more than make up for any BAB you lose. I'd take it for a martial class even without the will boosts; it's just that good. It only gets flak for sucking for casters.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-07-30, 09:11 PM
Stats: STR 20 DEX 12 CON 16 INT 10 WIS 8 CHA 8
Barbarian 1, Fighter 5, Frenz.Berserker 1
Weapon: +1 Large Keen Great Falchion. (monkey grp)

Clearly his a combat-brute. But if someone charms him...then the rest of the team is doomed. In addition if he fails the WIll save required to stop his frenzy after killing all enemies... we are doomed again...



The Falchion he's carying is essential to the plot, and without Monkey Grip he won't be able to wield it...

Inuyasha...Sit!