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View Full Version : Fog, eversmoking bottles, reach, and AoO questions



Epinephrine
2009-07-30, 08:56 AM
Fog (e.g., from a Fog Cloud) typically allows some visibility when adjacent, with full concealment at greater than 5'.

This would make reach weapons nearly useless in Fog, and negates the advantage larger creatures might otherwise have due to reach, correct?

Do reach weapons get an AoO when a creature steps into an adjacent square, in fog? According to the SRD, you threaten any square you could attack into;


Threatened Squares
You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity.

Then again, I'd probably rule that you have to know that the foe is moving to attack them. Stepping from a square 5' away to another square 5' away couldn't provoke an AoO, as you don't know that they are doing so. Stepping into an adjacent square might - you see the opponent emerging from the fog, and stab? But I could see the argument going either way. If you did grant the AoO, it would happen before the movement, meaning that the attack resolves while your opponent has full concealment. This would at best imply a 50% hit rate, and more likely that one can't make the attack, as one isn't aware of the location of the foe yet.

Denying AoO and using full concealment rules doesn't seem fair to some creatures. A large dragon, for example, has reach with its bite. Moreover, it also can tell what hex to strike into, thanks to blindsense. Biting by definition brings one's head within 5' of the opponent (assuming that the biting mouth is on the head), presumably also dragging eyes along with it. My temptation is to rule that a dragon can strike with only the 20% concealment. They can also detect moving opponents in hexes they can reach, and according to the SRD descrition, they threaten the squares. Also, since their opponent can't see the attack coming, they catch their opponent flat-footed, right? I'm not sure how to rule this.

My temptation is again to rule in favour of the dragon, who can:
a) tell that an opponent is in the square,
b) use a melee attack to attack that square, and thus threatens it,
c) tell that movement is being performed that could trigger an AoO.

If the dragon took the AoO with its bite, I could see applying only a 20% miss chance, and treating the opponent as flat-footed. The miss chance with the other attacks would be 50%, as they don't get the benefit of moving the eyes adjacent to the opponent. Does this seem reasonable?

Then I have a question about eversmoking bottles - they say that the the smoke pours from the bottle, "totally obscuring vision," which sounds like it's as opaque as anything - a millimeter of smoke provides full concealment?
Does this imply that one could stand at the edge of such a cloud and attack out with no penalty, while those outside don't even know what square the attacks come from?* (assuming it's not obvious - I imagine they can see whence an arrow flies, but not whence a Flame Strike was cast).

*Using the rule that you decide whence you attack or cast, picking a point in your square. So you pick a point on the outer edge, having no smoke between you and the target, but when they attack, you select the back corner, presenting them with a full square of smoke.

If smoke is truly full concealment everywhere, even to adjacent squares, can blindsense allow for AoO? Obviously, the AoOs would have a 50% miss chance, but provided you can sense foes moving about and can attack with melee into that square, I assume that you could in fact take an AoO?

Blindsense is pretty crude though, so I don't imagine it could sense that someone were casting or reaching into a bag, so those actions wouldn't provoke?

I'm also trying to pick whether a dragon would rather hide in fog or in smoke...
It can use it's breath just fine in either. Just spray where you know there are foes. If you roll a one (1) for the number of rounds between breaths, that means there is a round in which it can't breath, correct? Not that the dragon gets two consecutive rounds with its breath weapon?