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Benejeseret
2009-07-30, 04:36 PM
Item As A Villain?

What do you think...

Create a Intelligent Magic Helm with the power to Animate Undead as per a user-activated Wondrous Item.

Grant it Lesser and Greater Magic Powers as per Intelligent Items such as mirror image, hold person, deathwatch, darkness, lesser globe invulnerability, haste, and fear. Plus of course the user-activated ability to Animate Undead (up to a make caster levelx2HD)

>>>

So the PC's come upon an intelligent, speaking (even telepathic) Undead Skeleton with the apparent ability to use spells (spell-likes). Maybe they think it's a Lich, maybe they're not sure what it is.

If they destroy the Undead they claim the Helm as an item. It stays silent until they kill something even more powerful when it suddenly Ego dominates the PC to be placed on the now-dead Dragon etc....only to undeadify it!!!

It is treasure?? Is it the BBEG??

Leave them guessing. It's too powerful to abandon and too dangerous to use (if it dominates them...). So a whole side-quest begins to find ways to destroy it.

Thatguyoverther
2009-07-30, 04:38 PM
I like it. But why doesn't it just kill one of the PCs and animate them? Or put them in a situation where they'll die then animate them.

TheCountAlucard
2009-07-30, 04:47 PM
What do you think...?I think I'll have to steal this. :smalltongue:

Suggestion: make it an artifact/legacy item, so that it can only be destroyed by MDJ/the power of PLOT. Because otherwise, the players can just sunder it.

pasko77
2009-07-30, 04:58 PM
Stormbringer literally is what you are describing, if you search for an example.
It devours souls instead of creating undeads, but yet... it powers its wielder so that it can keep devouring souls.

Ernir
2009-07-30, 05:27 PM
Consider the idea stolen. I have no greater praise. :smallbiggrin:

JonestheSpy
2009-07-30, 05:35 PM
Two words: Carvin' Marvin

Rhiannon87
2009-07-30, 06:45 PM
I like it. But why doesn't it just kill one of the PCs and animate them? Or put them in a situation where they'll die then animate them.

Because the PCs aren't powerful enough for its goals. They're useful ways of getting around (it is, after all, a non-mobile helmet), but it would really like to be on the head of something more powerful than a pathetic humanoid skeleton. The dragon idea that the OP suggested is a good one. I think a giant might also be interesting.

And yeah, that is a pretty epically awesome idea. It totally won't work into my campaign, sadly. I already have a mind-controlling MacGuffin. :smalltongue:

Mulletmanalive
2009-07-30, 07:39 PM
This campaign model has been done before, even occurring as the third scariest Ravenloft adventure ever conceived [The Secrets of Shadowborne Manor, right after Feast of Goblyns in second and Ravenloft itself in first. I ran this and was unnerved; my players were off the deep end by the time i was done picking them off].

The weapon need not be artifact level to achieve it's goals. One classic is to have it as the secret mastermind behind a complex political web, though weapons usually need objectives that are relatively simple as there is only so much polishing they can gain from vast wealth.

An excellent possibility is a Suggestion packing Magic Mirror or Mirror of Scrying that manipulates politics by showing false information. Either that or it makes for a spiffy recurring villain if it's got Fell Animate Slay Living as its purpose power.

Benejeseret
2009-07-30, 08:40 PM
I was thinking about the PC death situation and also wavering on it.

The trick is to make it non-obvious at the beginning but to grow toward the subtle reveal - and the moment the PC's figure it out is when it dominates one of them.


One thing I was thinking to make it multi-encountered was to have peasants/tavernkeepers etc keep stealing the thing and running off with it. It always ends in some local evil baron's or ogres hand and they have to kill it - only to have it reanimate and fight them off again.

((ie. telepathically influences to be stolen and ends up consolidating power))

This leads PC down faulty logic thinking it is their mcguffin (cause they keep fighting to get it back). And these various mini-bosses are tied to some larger undead scheme who want the helm.

Skorj
2009-07-30, 08:57 PM
Been there, done that (even did a magic item PC in a tournament adventure once). It's great idea. It's fun when the PCs figure it out, fun when they have to come up with a totally different plan, and most of all it's fun when they win.

You see, when they've killed everything animate and it's just them and the magical helm ... they're holding a valuable magic item they've worked hard to get. Someome is bound to suggest that "maybe we don't need to destroy it after all, maybe we can ..." :smallbiggrin:

Gaiyamato
2009-07-30, 09:18 PM
I made a ring that did this. It granted a bunch of regular bonuses, like bonuses to saves etc. when worn.
When you used any of it's activated abilities (feather fall was one) it took a toll.
The most severe attempted to cast a spell that shifted your alignment, either to chaotic or evil.
One of them caused you to save or lose a level.
Most of them simply sapped HP or ability scores (temporarily).

Other than that the ring had an addictive effect. So for each hour a character wore it, and every time it was donned they had to make a save or become addicted. Once addicted they had to make a save in order to remove it. It gradually got harder and harder to remove and players became more possessive over it. Once they hit a certain point they to make a save or start using it's activated abilities even when it was not needed. So they feather fall when jumping down from their horse for example, use cure moderate wounds on the 2HP scratch.
This meant that the penalties quickly accrued.

To make it worse the ring was intelligent, but it NEVER attempted to dominate or communicate with the players in any way. Instead is subtly warned their enemies, drew random savage wildlife into camp at night, even animated enemies they had slain and then had them track the party and attack again some time later as various undead (sometimes wights).

Once the character possessing the item was sufficiently weakened that the item could auto win an ego contest (it had a huge ego score) it just dominated them and drained them to death. Once it slew them it then did something strange.
It Reincarnated itself into the slain victims body, becoming a living breathing thing. The slain victims soul was then trapped like a magic jar in the ring, where, in all likely-hood there were dozens of other trapped souls. The trapped soul had no power over the ring.

So the Ring was so powerful an intelligent item it was a character in it's own right. I used it as the BBEG. The party did not even notice that one of their members had actually died and was now the very enemy they had been trying to find and destroy (The ring made a trail of false clues and led them in circles in their quest. They were told WHO they were after, but no one realised that the enemy was in a fact a ring. lol.). If they defeated him and remove the ring they still could not restore the slain party member without a greater wish, some sort of divine miracle or through the destruction of the ring itself. Which was it's own horrid quest.

If no one EVER put the ring on it still works against them and uses all sorts of subtle emotion effects to try and force the party to rely on the ring at least once (and it could still plot against them and animate enemies etc.). Once is often enough for DC 30+ Will saves with level 6 characters. lol.

So yeah, very One ringish.. but it worked well and is kinda of similar to the helm idea.

Thurbane
2009-07-30, 09:30 PM
From memory, one of the 1E/2E domain lords in Ravenloft was an intelligent sword...

Gaiyamato
2009-07-30, 10:19 PM
From memory, one of the 1E/2E domain lords in Ravenloft was an intelligent sword...

2e. Yes he was. I found him once as a fighter and suffered greatly. :(
so did the rest of the party though... after I had killed them all one by in paranoid fits. lol.

Fostire
2009-07-30, 10:21 PM
Item As A Villain?

What do you think...

Create a Intelligent Magic Helm with the power to Animate Undead

My first thought: The lich king from warcraft.

Thrawn183
2009-07-30, 10:28 PM
It totally needs animate objects.

Tokiko Mima
2009-07-30, 10:34 PM
It could be even more interesting if the item in question was an artifact, and could not easily be destroyed or nullified. Then after the heroes finally claim it there could be a whole quest to find a way to destroy it while it tries to manipulate the heroes into using it. Very Lord of the Rings.

kestrel404
2009-07-31, 07:24 AM
The trick is to make it non-obvious at the beginning but to grow toward the subtle reveal - and the moment the PC's figure it out is when it dominates one of them.


One thing I was thinking to make it multi-encountered was to have peasants/tavernkeepers etc keep stealing the thing and running off with it. It always ends in some local evil baron's or ogres hand and they have to kill it - only to have it reanimate and fight them off again.

I would go with the second option. Give the party a cohort, or some other useful minion type. It could be a cute halfling girl who happens to be excellent at picking locks, or a befuddled wizard/sorceror (not full wizard, not full sorceror, but actually level 1/2 in both) who picks up the oddest spells he can find (for example, his 1st level Sorcerer spells would be comprehend languages, animate rope and endure elements), but doesn't have the wit to use them himself. That way, when someone in the party comes up with a clever idea, they can say, "Hey, Whizbang! Animate rope on the rope attached to the well bucket, and then have it ensnare the troll!"

Whatever you choose, just make it a helpful and useful NPC. Who, when the party is just about to figure out what the Helm REALLY does, disappears with it. This way, the boss fight can have some REAL meaning to the party, as they somehow have to stop the Evil helm, while they are tormented by the fact that it is using Whizbang or whoever as both a hostage and a host body. But without removing one of the players from the action.

Lysander
2009-07-31, 08:57 AM
I once screwed myself over because I was paranoid about this. There was this powerful undead magician that I was able to defeat with great difficulty. When he died he just melted into ash, along with all of his inventory...except for a cape.

I was 100% positive the cape was evil and possessed somehow. So I very cautiously examined it. It was an invulnerable fabric that was immune to all my attacks. Very One Ringish. My character spent significant time and resources trying to destroy this evil cape, hiring magicians to analyze it and find weaknesses. Eventually I managed to destroy it.

My DM slapped his head, because I'd just destroyed the incredibly light weight armor that had been my reward for defeating the magician.

mistformsquirrl
2009-07-31, 09:01 AM
Consider the idea stolen. I have no greater praise. :smallbiggrin:

Ditto.

Seriously, very well thought out and clever <^_^> An there are a lot of variations one can branch off of it too!

Kallisti
2009-07-31, 05:18 PM
Item As A Villain?

What do you think...

Create a Intelligent Magic Helm with the power to Animate Undead as per a user-activated Wondrous Item.

Grant it Lesser and Greater Magic Powers as per Intelligent Items such as mirror image, hold person, deathwatch, darkness, lesser globe invulnerability, haste, and fear. Plus of course the user-activated ability to Animate Undead (up to a make caster levelx2HD)

>>>

So the PC's come upon an intelligent, speaking (even telepathic) Undead Skeleton with the apparent ability to use spells (spell-likes). Maybe they think it's a Lich, maybe they're not sure what it is.

If they destroy the Undead they claim the Helm as an item. It stays silent until they kill something even more powerful when it suddenly Ego dominates the PC to be placed on the now-dead Dragon etc....only to undeadify it!!!

It is treasure?? Is it the BBEG??

Leave them guessing. It's too powerful to abandon and too dangerous to use (if it dominates them...). So a whole side-quest begins to find ways to destroy it.

Screwing your PC's over with an intelligent item is loads of fun. DO IT!!!

Aneantir
2009-07-31, 05:23 PM
Two words: Carvin' Marvin

This is exactly what I thought of, and now I'm desperately trying to find a link.

Woodsman
2009-07-31, 06:12 PM
Frankly, I like the idea.

Though the mention of Ravenloft reminds me of what one of my friends running the 3.5 edition was planning with Muffkins (The purple-stuffed dragon).

But my God, what he'd done with Muffkins already was hilarious.

Grazhendul
2009-07-31, 06:38 PM
Make it a necklace?

Then have the necklace very subtle manipulate one PC once a nice critter presents itself (as a DM, this shouldn't be a problem).

Once dead, command the guy in possession of the item to check out the corpse and slip it on the beasts with a sleight of hand.

Use a small paper to get this message over to the player.
Before the encounter, be sure to pass a 'read this, nod and go on with your business' note to another player.

Then raise the monster. It would be a good idea to bestow a signature spell or attack on the created undead. Something with a bang and nasty, mass effects to remind them. A inflict wounds/darkness black tentacle?

Finally, to finish this move off, have a minor creation/illusion effect let the necklace duplicate itself as soon as the creature is down.

The PC’s will search the body. Find the necklace and recognize it. Search for their previous one and find the duplicate.

Big questions here: you might need some new/altered spells for the creation/illusion effect. Further theirs the problem with the PC’s memory.

Randel
2009-07-31, 11:18 PM
A few ideas:


1). The armor of the Silver King

Long ago there was a family of Warrior Kings who each protected their realm from evil. The king would slay any who threatened his people or rightful rule, either dragon, orcs, bandits, cultists, money lenders that lent money at rates that were too high, spell casters that didn't have the approval of the king or the local temples, people who were ugly or deformed, people who disrespected the king, people who disrespected the king when he was disguised as a beggar, women who shunned his advances, people who looked like they might try taking over the kingdom, people who had nice castles or kingdoms that he wanted, and mimes.

Each of these kings wore the families armor that was kept bright and polished, and with it they ruled and prospered (the kingdom prospered as well... honest, the history books said things were great all the time and if you asked any of the peasants they would agree that their king was kind, just, and handsome as well... and merciful... they always say merciful).

Anyway, long line of smart, handsom, just and merciful kings was ended one day when a group of radical malcontents poisoned him, then ambushed him, then tore him to pieces and set the pieces on fire and fed the ashes to several dozen dogs in different parts of the country... then buried the dogs in tombs.

But his armor remains and it was divided up amonst the conspirators who then went their seperate ways. The various pieces of the armor however hold the combined spirit of that old family and swore revenge upon their murderers and all their kin (unto the tenth generation). The armor plans to slay all of the decedents of those murderers and then each make their way to eachother so that they can all be worn by the same person who will then be 'reborn' as the heir to their dynasty.

Mechanics:

The armor consists of a sword, shield, helmet, boots, and the armor itself. All of these pieces have the ability to detect evil and have the limited ability to detect the presence of the other pieces of the armor. They are all intelligent but rarely voice their thoughts, instead encouraging their wielder to kill decendents of the betrayers or to acquire the other pieces of the set using their detection abilities to trick the user. The armors definition of evil is pretty subjective and should not be relied on (though the armor tries not to give off any bad vibes)

The pieces also have their own special powers... like speed for the boots or extra smiting power for the sword (like the armor, the swords idea of morality is subjective so you could pretty much use Smite Evil on anything... since if something is annoying its wielder enough to make said wielder attack it then gosh darn that target must be evil!).

Ultimate goal, kill the descendants and all get united on the same person. At which point the wearer will be sacrificed to resurrect that last Silver King so that he can restore his family to glory... though its quite possible that he will be killing a whole lot of 'evil' people to do that.


2). Dagger of the Necromancer

An evil necromancer had once used this dagger to sacrifice the souls of innocents in order to create his phylactery and become a Lich. However, some adventurers came, destroyed his phylactory, and then fought him. The rogue found the dagger amongst the treasure and used it to slay the Lich once and for all.

However... he wasn't completly slain. The dagger had absorbed his soul into itself and he is now trapped in the dagger. The dagger itself can allow its wielder to sneak-attack undead. For each undead slain with the dagger it gains a charge which can then be used to deal extra damage to a living creature.

Actually, the dagger absorbs the necrotic energies that animate undead and stores it inside and then releases it to damage living creatures. Any living thing slain by the dagger rises as an undead (usually a zombie) a few days later under the control of the necromancer inside the dagger. The necromancer himself has a few tricks... mostly the ability to detect magic, undead, living creatures, or gold... he can then make the daggers blade glow or grow dim (effectively making the user think that its a treasure detecting dagger or something).

His primary goal is regain a physical body, he could accomplish this either by absorbing enough negative energy to manifest as a shadow, or to absorb magical energies and transform the dagger into his new phylactery and become a Lich again. He might be able to transform the dagger by absorbing the magical energies of gems. The dagger 'detects' gems and then the rogue brings them close, the dagger absorbs the gems and grows stronger... so his dagger phylactery has all the combat powers of a magic weapon of the same cost. Once the rogue upgrades his spiffy new dagger enough then it turns into a phylactery and the Lich comes out... at which point all the cool treasure/undead detection powers vanish and he has to destroy the dagger to kill the Lich... or if he kills the Lich then he might convince him to keep up the treasure detection until his body regrows.


3). The shattered mirror

This mirror was once a scrying mirror used by an evil queen who in a fit of rage and madness shattered it (and died soon after... unlucky). There are about 13 pieces, each of which has some limited scrying power of their own and in particular the ability to show the location of the other pieces.

In its unbroken form, the mirror could spy on anyone in the land provided the user knew the targets true name. It could also answer questions if the question was put into the form of a rhyme. In its broken form, it can be used to a limited extent but the results are usually pretty poor until the pieces are put back together.

One quirk about the mirror... it was warped to begin with. Anything reflected in the mirror will appear just a little bit worse as if the mirror reflects bad things more than good things, this includes answers given by questioning it or the scenes gotten by scrying. Generally, everything it shows is true but looks like it would be bad for the user. The old queen used to be quite nice until she used the mirror to spy on people... and thought that everyone was trying to usurp her power. People who take the mirrors contents at face value tend to have alot of conflict as a result.

It might be possible to unwarp the mirror so that it shows things accurately.


4). The basket of goodies

The basket of tasty treats never runs out and its food has a variety of bonuses ( I think in the magic item compendium there is a horn of plenty or something that has fruits that confer bonuses). The food can be pulled out of the basket to eat on the run (usually fruits or pieces of bread), the checkered cloth can be removed and spread on the ground to have a picnic (it causes food like sandwiches, salads and some cheap ales of water to appear), or you can invoke the magic words on the bottom which cause a kindly old elf lady named Mother Mae Eye (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_characters_in_the_Teen_Titans_animat ed_series#Mother_Mae-Eye) to appear and cook for you (she can set up a table containing fresh baked pie, roast Turkey, and fine wines and ale).

The delicious meals are highly addictive (they're made with love) and regular use may cause the eaters to get fat and happy. Mother Mae Eye then attacks them in their sleep and cooks them for dinner.

TheStagesmith
2009-08-01, 12:04 AM
A few ideas:
[snip]
The delicious meals are highly addictive (they're made with love) and regular use may cause the eaters to get fat and happy. Mother Mae Eye then attacks them in their sleep and cooks them for dinner.

Soylent Green is people!
[/tangent] *ahem*

On a related note, this idea is something that I've been suggesting to various DMs for a very long time (I don't DM, more's the pity - I just can't do it :smallconfused:). The one thing that's turned them off is the amount of work involved. You have to make sure that the benefits of keeping the item (at least in the short run) outweigh any possible downsides, and you also have to make sure that the players don't just trade it in for an upgrade (especially problematic if you have magic-marts around, although you don't strike me as the type of DM who would).

Pretty much all my previous advice to DMs is moot, however, since you seem to have an essentially complete & solid idea. More power to you if you actually can pull this off; I'm jealous of your players.

Teron
2009-08-01, 12:19 AM
There was a Dungeon adventure along these lines in one of the last issues, where the villains were intelligent weapons made by both sides of an old feud that were taking control of random people to try and destroy each other. I thought it was a rather novel concept to have magic items as true antagonists (rather than merely corruptive influences or the like, as is much more common in fantasy), with interesting role-playing potential (can you convince intelligent items to get over it? Do you treat the "survivors" like criminals, useful items, or otherwise after the matter is resolved?); though I don't have a copy and don't remember the details.

Tyrmatt
2009-08-01, 12:40 AM
First idea that occurs to me is an item that likes to take possession of children. Using the child as it's host, it moves it's evil plans forward, usually through the power of adults that the child/item can now dominate.

When the PCs come to bust it up, they find the "poor child" locked away in a cupboard or hiding from the battle. Once the PCs clear out, the child manipulates the situation to get the item's plans back on track. Once the PCs eventually figure it out they're going to have to find a way to remove the ring/necklace/teddy bear from the child. But Remove Curse has no effect, the ring is firmly stuck to the child (and the item lapses it's control whenever the PCs try to forcefully remove it, making the child scream and panic, not to mention alerting the common folk to the adventurers "child abusing ways".) Eventually they'll have to journey into the child's mind and soul to combat the malign influence that is taking over in order to force the ring off.

Wouldn't work as a campaign spanning villain but could definitely find a few levels worth of fun. Of course, this is the forum that brought me "Strap children to a clay golem" as a way to render the good PCs powerless to stop it so I bet there's some really wicked ideas out there.

ondonaflash
2009-08-01, 01:14 AM
There's a story set in the Diablo world that follows along these lines. Its in a compendium. Very good story, the main character dons a suit of evil armor that forces him to move to a battle to the death with his distant relative, who has the helmet that matches.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-08-01, 01:20 AM
The delicious meals are highly addictive (they're made with love) and regular use may cause the eaters to get fat and happy. Mother Mae Eye then attacks them in their sleep and cooks them for dinner.

The cooking I can put up with, but her taste in fashion is horrible.

Limos
2009-08-01, 02:08 AM
I actually had a similar thing in one campaign, except ultimately the item was good... sort of.

If you have ever read Warbreaker by Brandon Sanderson then you would be familiar with Nightblood. It's an animate sword that amplifies the evil within people and devours the life energy of the wielder when drawn.

They first encounter it when a Goblin tries to pull it on them out of the horde and it dominates the poor bastard into jamming it through his chest. Sheath and all.

The evil amplification thing meant that every time they took their eyes off it somebody would steal it and they would find it later in a room full of life drained corpses.

Of course the first thing they tried was to get a priest to bind it with magic, but since it's ultimately a good or at least neutral artifact all the evil binding spells didn't accomplish anything.

boomwolf
2009-08-01, 02:48 AM
I had a variation of this BBEG once, but it was an armor that made golems and attracted constructs.

Once enough parts were collected by the party (of slain minor constructs) it made a Cadavar Collector(!), and used a magical ability to "teleport" onto it, making it even tougher then usual, and above all-under full control.


Now imagine a Cadavar Collector with +8 to AC, a brand new selection of feats, and the intelligence level (and therefor tactical understanding) of a wizard as the boss fight for 4 level 10 adventurers.
One survived this final fight. and he was on 1 hit-point. (ended quite funny, he decided to animate another PC as a skeleton to fight for him, it worked.)

The armor was later destroyed by throwing it into an orb of annihilation. (a nearby city had one installed as the garbage pit, quite effective. got rid of all sorts of nasty things during the adventure.)

Fawsto
2009-08-01, 12:39 PM
Just a little bit with mmy experience with Items being the evil masterminds:

I was DMing my campaing named "Touched by the Crimson King" (a little inspiration from a song, if you can recon it) where the Eye of the Crimson King was an major artifact that imprisoned the soul of a very ancient very powerful ubber arcanist, therefore, -very- intelingent. If any decendent of the Ubber Mage put the item (a single sided "monocle" mask) he would be taken over by the desire to put the Ubber Mage's ancient plot to dominate/destroy the known planes.

The fun part was that all the PCs and a lot of NPCs were related to the Ubber Mage guy, and so, anytime the PCs were able to defeat one of the possessed guys, the Eye simply teleported itself away to find a new host.

The Eye's plot was very simple: It was waiting to see the PCs getting powerful enough, so it would dominate one of them to set up the Ubber Mage's plot.

It was a very interesting campaing... Pain that it died...

Anyway... I liked your idea! Let us know how the campaing went, ok?