Wizard using Create Undead?

[chrek]

I have a Generalist Wizard that I've been playing in an ongoing campaign that has discovered the usefulness of the undead. However, only animate dead allows you to control your undead at summoning time, Create undead, and Greater Create undead specifically state that you do not automatically control them, and you can only control them is you can command undead as a cleric.

What I'm wondering if there are any already created magic items that would allow a wizard to control undead as an evil cleric without requiring dvine spell casting levels or for the character to be strictly evil?

If not, he might have to research a new spell.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I have a Generalist Wizard that I've been playing in an ongoing campaign that has discovered the usefulness of the undead. However, only animate dead allows you to control your undead at summoning time, Create undead, and Greater Create undead specifically state that you do not automatically control them, and you can only control them is you can command undead as a cleric.

What I'm wondering if there are any already created magic items that would allow a wizard to control undead as an evil cleric without requiring dvine spell casting levels or for the character to be strictly evil?

If not, he might have to research a new spell.

You control them with FEAR and VIOLENCE and the REWARD OF VICTIMS.

OK this works better for an NPC or if you have a friendly DM. But, really, if your DM does not like the idea of you having intelligent undead minions, then it's probably not worth doing.

You can use spells like command undead or control undead. Negative energy wave (4th level) from Tome and Blood lets you rebuke undead. There are some magic items that let you do that too, like the Shroudcrown from Player's Guide to Faerun.

Other options include using temporary undead helpers with the summon undead spell.

You can take a feat or class to get an intelligent undead cohort and undead followers. For example undead leadership is just what the name implies. And a shadow dancer gets shadows that follow him around.

And you can of course become undead yourself. That makes it easier to deal with other undead or create your own spawn which you control :smallsmile:

[quick_comment]

Get create contingent spell. Give each of them a contingent plane shift to the positive energy plane (assuming your DM uses RAI on the plane), based on a nonsense phrase.

They piss you off, you banish them.

[Devils_Advocate]

The command undead spell allows a wizard to charm intelligent undead for days.

[Animefunkmaster]

Get create contingent spell. Give each of them a contingent plane shift to the positive energy plane (assuming your DM uses RAI on the plane), based on a nonsense phrase.

They piss you off, you banish them.

I really REALLY liked this idea.

[Darcand]

Or take the leadership feat and specify that you prefer your minions to be of the post-living community.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

I think there'sa variant feat for that called Undead Leadership.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I think there'sa variant feat for that called Undead Leadership.

Yes but you gotta pay for that by being evil...and you know buying another book.

[Kylarra]

Yes but you gotta pay for that by being evil...and you know buying another book.
Not evil... just not good.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Not evil... just not good.

Evil? Neutral? Destroy them all and let Pelor sort it out.

[Kylarra]

Evil? Neutral? Destroy them all and let Pelor sort it out.Pelor is neutral evil (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=846926).:smallamused:

[chrek]

That for the ideas, guys. I didn't mention it explicitly, but I'm looking for a way to get undead from create undead specifically because it allows me to create intelligent undead from book of vile darkness using two of the new templates specified in there. This lets me make something more useful than just the skeletons that I've been using...of course it might tick the cleric off, but we just won't tell him :)

I'll look up the shroud mentioned, and lesser negative energy wave.

I actually already have one suggestion in place, the character is actually already a lich (This is what I get for asking orcus for a favor...), but the character himself isn't exactly evil...just not good. We don't really play with players having specific alignments unless it's crucial to the class or character design that they be of a specific alignment.

Thanks again for the suggestions, I'll be looking into them tomorrow (later today?).

[Coidzor]

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=632562 If you can get some of the requirements waived (like tomb-tainted soul and being living) Uttercold Assault Necromancer might be nice...

Or leadership with a cohort who is a cleric built specifically for boosting Turning Level for purposes of being the head of a network of controlled undead who can in turn control more undead.

There's a list somewhere of undead who can be used in such a way other than just wightocalypses.

[chrek]

Holy cow! Talk about a treasure trove! I'll be checking that thread out, thank you Coidzor!

I don't suppose you know of someone that turned that long page into a
PDF do you?

If not I might post a link to if assuming that the license for that thread allows it.

[Devils_Advocate]

There is already a PDF compilation of Frank & K's material (http://turing.bard.edu/~mk561/frank_k_0.5.1.pdf). Happy day!

[Irreverent Fool]

That for the ideas, guys. I didn't mention it explicitly, but I'm looking for a way to get undead from create undead specifically because it allows me to create intelligent undead from book of vile darkness using two of the new templates specified in there. This lets me make something more useful than just the skeletons that I've been using...of course it might tick the cleric off, but we just won't tell him :)

I'll look up the shroud mentioned, and lesser negative energy wave.

I actually already have one suggestion in place, the character is actually already a lich (This is what I get for asking orcus for a favor...), but the character himself isn't exactly evil...just not good. We don't really play with players having specific alignments unless it's crucial to the class or character design that they be of a specific alignment.

Thanks again for the suggestions, I'll be looking into them tomorrow (later today?).

If they're intelligent, you can reason with them. By 'reason with them' I mean 'destroy half of them while the other half watches and remind them that if they don't fall into line you can just cast the spell again and use them as the example for the new batch.'

obnoxious
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