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Admiral Squish
2009-07-31, 09:55 PM
Now, you can make two different kinds of undead with your standard animate dead. Zombies... or skeletons. I'm looking over the effects, and I'm honestly curious: Why would anyone pick zombie? They're a little stronger, and a LITTLE harder to hit, but the single action only thing just makes them completely useless. Anything with sense can full attack and 5 ft. step out of it's reach and be safe forever. It can't AoO, it can't 5 ft. step, it can't even full attack! A skeleton, however, gets similar, albeit slightly weaker bonuses, and can actually move and attack, or even full attack. I can understand making a zombie so it can fly, but generally, there seems little to no point to making anything without wings a zombie. Except MAYBE something massive, and use it as a meat-wall. Zombie seismosaurus and such.

But anyways, can anyone tell me why you'd make a zombie rather than a skeleton?

Weezer
2009-07-31, 09:57 PM
If all you have is fresh corpses? If your animating dead on a battlefield all the corpses will be far too fleshy to be skeletons but aside from situations like that I cant think of any reason.

Claudius Maximus
2009-07-31, 09:58 PM
That's not a concern. You can raise a fleshy corpse as a skeleton.

Gralamin
2009-07-31, 09:58 PM
Now, you can make two different kinds of undead with your standard animate dead. Zombies... or skeletons. I'm looking over the effects, and I'm honestly curious: Why would anyone pick zombie? They're a little stronger, and a LITTLE harder to hit, but the single action only thing just makes them completely useless. Anything with sense can full attack and 5 ft. step out of it's reach and be safe forever. It can't AoO, it can't 5 ft. step, it can't even full attack! A skeleton, however, gets similar, albeit slightly weaker bonuses, and can actually move and attack, or even full attack. I can understand making a zombie so it can fly, but generally, there seems little to no point to making anything without wings a zombie. Except MAYBE something massive, and use it as a meat-wall. Zombie seismosaurus and such.

But anyways, can anyone tell me why you'd make a zombie rather than a skeleton?

Zombies can fly, also they don't need skeletal structures. So certain creatures work much better as zombies.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-07-31, 09:59 PM
But anyways, can anyone tell me why you'd make a zombie rather than a skeleton?
Have you ever tried making love to skeleton?

Admiral Squish
2009-07-31, 10:00 PM
Have you ever tried making love to skeleton?

You're not allowed to talk anymore. Ever.

Jayngfet
2009-07-31, 10:02 PM
Have you ever tried making love to skeleton?

Once, it didn't turn out well.

Jade_Tarem
2009-07-31, 10:02 PM
Have you ever tried making love to skeleton?

*HURK* *cough* *cough*

Eheh... anyway, the zombie option is there because not all zombies are created equal. There are necro builds that allow you to make fast zombies, soldier zombies, etc., that are quite good.

RS14
2009-07-31, 10:03 PM
Anything with sense can full attack and 5 ft. step out of it's reach and be safe forever. It can't AoO, it can't 5 ft. step, it can't even full attack!

I think you are mistaken here. It can charge (moving up to its base speed only) and attack in the same turn.

I don't see where you're getting the idea that it can't make AoOs or take 5ft steps, either.

Salt_Crow
2009-07-31, 10:04 PM
Single action only restriction can be somewhat bypassed by creating Hydra zombies. Also, due to the doubling of HD you can make some good meatshields (quite literally) with zombies. Think about what you can do with a 12-head hydra with twice the HD that can make 12 normal attacks AND AoO (huge size doesn't hurt either).

Also, Hamsterofthegod, that's disturbing to the extreme. Hilarious yes, inappropriate nevertheless.

Faleldir
2009-07-31, 10:05 PM
In addition to their advantages in combat, skeletons are much cleaner and quieter than zombies, and fold up for easy storage.

Weezer
2009-07-31, 10:06 PM
That's not a concern. You can raise a fleshy corpse as a skeleton.

Hmm didn't realize that, guess I've been playing wrong all these years, oh well.

Admiral Squish
2009-07-31, 10:06 PM
I think you are mistaken here. It can charge (moving up to its base speed only) and attack in the same turn.

I don't see where you're getting the idea that it can't make AoOs or take 5ft steps, either.

I though single action only meant move OR attack only, no exceptions. No free actions or anything like that, and especially no charges. Lack of AoOs just makes sense to me. If it can only swing once every six seconds, then how is he supposed to be making attacks in those brief instants of opportunity?

deuxhero
2009-07-31, 10:06 PM
Zombies are great when they are pyrohyrda zombies. Ice and fire imune, can make full attacks even as a zombie. I think it can be Evolve Undeaded for more fun.

Kelpstrand
2009-07-31, 10:12 PM
Best Zombie ever: Behir.

Single bite attack, which it keeps Improved Grab, keeps. Can fly, keeps. Charge attacks with it's bite, then it gets to use it's Rake (Ex): Ability, which it keeps.

6 claw attacks.

Hello 7 attacks on a charge, and twice the HD. Skeletons are jealous.


I though single action only meant move OR attack only, no exceptions. No free actions or anything like that, and especially no charges. Lack of AoOs just makes sense to me. If it can only swing once every six seconds, then how is he supposed to be making attacks in those brief instants of opportunity?

They can swing more than once, they just don't get a full attack action, even a standard action attack is more than one attack, it's the give and take leading up to the one attack that could hit. So they still get AoOs, because that's people not defending as well against previous attacks.

Also, standard action only means they can partial charge, and they can still 5ft step, because that's a non action.

tyckspoon
2009-07-31, 10:21 PM
I though single action only meant move OR attack only, no exceptions. No free actions or anything like that, and especially no charges. Lack of AoOs just makes sense to me. If it can only swing once every six seconds, then how is he supposed to be making attacks in those brief instants of opportunity?

It may 'make sense' to you, but it's not what the rules say. The rules even specifically allow a charge- it's the partial charge, which means it doesn't get double movement, but it's still a charge (Pouncing zombies are almost as dangerous as they were alive.) 5 foot steps are permitted any time a creature does not otherwise move, such as when the Zombie intends to use its standard action to attack, so it can shuffle after the person who gets overly smart and tries to dance away with their own 5-foots.

As for Attacks of Opportunity.. characters under level 6 can also only 'swing' once per round in most circumstances. Do you deny them AoO because they aren't skilled/fast/attentive enough to take advantage?

Admiral Squish
2009-07-31, 10:25 PM
It may 'make sense' to you, but it's not what the rules say. The rules even specifically allow a charge- it's the partial charge, which means it doesn't get double movement, but it's still a charge (Pouncing zombies are almost as dangerous as they were alive.) 5 foot steps are permitted any time a creature does not otherwise move, such as when the Zombie intends to use its standard action to attack, so it can shuffle after the person who gets overly smart and tries to dance away with their own 5-foots.

As for Attacks of Opportunity.. characters under level 6 can also only 'swing' once per round in most circumstances. Do you deny them AoO because they aren't skilled/fast/attentive enough to take advantage?

That's a different kind of slow. Zombies are supposed to be lumbering, rotting monsters with little capacity for thought beyond action. They've got abysmal reflexes. I wouldn't think a zombie would be able to move it's limbs fast enough to strike at a character rushing past it, or take advantage of the momentary gap in defenses caused by reloading a light crossbow, or even recognize the opportunity was there.

Kelpstrand
2009-07-31, 10:42 PM
That's a different kind of slow. Zombies are supposed to be lumbering, rotting monsters with little capacity for thought beyond action. They've got abysmal reflexes. I wouldn't think a zombie would be able to move it's limbs fast enough to strike at a character rushing past it, or take advantage of the momentary gap in defenses caused by reloading a light crossbow, or even recognize the opportunity was there.

Well Golems are a lot less dangerous now that they don't get AoO because you decided they aren't smart enough to recognize the opportunity.

You'd think the people who made the game, and made the entry on "Mindless creatures" would have mentioned that they don't get AoO.

Does the Slow spell take away attacks of Opportunity? Because it's pretty much exactly like Zombie slow.

You don't get to decide what you think the ability should have done as meaningful in any way. What it does do is only allow Zombies to take a move or standard action. It does not affect their non actions.

Admiral Squish
2009-07-31, 10:46 PM
Okay, to clarify, I'm not saying, 'this is what I think and thus it is law'. I'm just saying, that's what I always assumed, and this is why I assumed such. I was unaware of their ability to AoO, or 5-foot step. Now that I know, I think several battles my players have faced would be significantly different...

erikun
2009-07-31, 10:50 PM
Well, I think we know why people would use zombies rather than skeletons - because they're far more versatile than you gave them credit for. :smallamused: I'm more of a fan of skeletons (less cleanup) but zombies have their uses.

Except for Hamster Of The God. He can't use undead anymore. :smallannoyed: Or constructs. Or any spells with the word "Animate" in them.

Seffbasilisk
2009-07-31, 10:53 PM
Skeletons don't generally smell, and tend to strike more fear (in my opinion) than a dead man's corpse. You can kill a man, you can cut it's head off or whatnot. A skeleton? A pile of bones animated through necromantic energies? If you don't pound every little bit of it to powder, it will claw you to shreds.

Kallisti
2009-07-31, 10:58 PM
*HURK* *cough* *cough*

Eheh... anyway, the zombie option is there because not all zombies are created equal. There are necro builds that allow you to make fast zombies, soldier zombies, etc., that are quite good.

Yes. That's the reason. That, and zombies have more HP. If you just want someone to stand in front of you and soak up damage, you're better off with a zombie.

Personally, I prefer zombies, because when I play a necromancer my undead minions aren't supposed to be pwerful, they're supposed to be plentiful and explode on impact thanks to that one feat from Libris Mortis. Animate a few skeletons from high HD monsters, those are your elite minions, and hordes of expendable zombies...

ChaosDefender24
2009-07-31, 11:43 PM
What you hafta keep in mind is that zombies get double HD. This makes for a mighty meat shield, but gives you rather poor HD-to-power ratio, which is important because you have limited HD to animate. In addition, since you have a 20-HD cap on both, your skeletons will ultimately be more powerful than your zombies, because the best zombie you're ever gonna get is a 10-headed hydra. The outsider skeletons get really scary!!!

Zombies are just not that great for PCs, but make for fun NPC fights. The exception is dragon zombie because you keep the breath weapon (pyroclastic disintegrate breath is just ridiculous), but that's a whole nother template.

AstralFire
2009-07-31, 11:45 PM
Have you ever tried making love to skeleton?

You owe me a new trachea and a handful of Doritos.


Once, it didn't turn out well.

Both of you.

Ravens_cry
2009-07-31, 11:58 PM
Have you ever tried making love to skeleton?
Puts a whole new perspective on jumping someone bones that I don't want to think about, thank you very much.

Teron
2009-08-01, 12:04 AM
If it's expendable minions you want, zombies are bad; double HD means you can control half as many, and they're certainly not twice as powerful. If anything, zombies are better when you want a big, stupid tough minion, and with the right choice of corpse it can be reasonably dangerous.

Kelpstrand, zombies lose the base creatures' special attacks, including improved grab and rake. They do keep extraordinary special qualities that improve melee or ranged attacks, though I can't think of any such abilities off the top of my head. Furthermore, behirs can't fly.

The rules for hydras are poorly written, but the common interpretation pretty much makes them the best zombies, at least in core.

MisterSaturnine
2009-08-01, 12:15 AM
You're not allowed to talk anymore. Ever.

Well, I liked it.

Also, what's the matter with making love to skeletons? Nothing like waking up with your head not just on your lover's chest, but in it.

EDIT: Though they do have trouble with the whole cigarette thing afterwards. What with the smoke not having anywhere to go.

Surrealistik
2009-08-01, 12:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyDMCn60lhY

BobVosh
2009-08-01, 12:21 AM
Well, I liked it.

Also, what's the matter with making love to skeletons? Nothing like waking up with your head not just on your lover's chest, but in it.

EDIT: Though they do have trouble with the whole cigarette thing afterwards. What with the smoke not having anywhere to go.

They do, however, always have a joint.


Don't hurt me

Also one game I played in exalted had someone with an undead fetish...ya, that was werid when we got to the necropolis. K, moving on.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-08-01, 12:26 AM
They do, however, always have a joint.
*Applauds*

The Mentalist
2009-08-01, 12:32 AM
That was puntastic.

Vaguely on topic, there's a homebrew spell around here that means you don't have to make the decision, you cast it and it changes between the two. I have it saved somewhere if anyone wants it.

AstralFire
2009-08-01, 12:34 AM
They do, however, always have a joint.


Don't hurt me

Also one game I played in exalted had someone with an undead fetish...ya, that was werid when we got to the necropolis. K, moving on.

That was brilliant.

Kelpstrand
2009-08-01, 04:55 AM
Kelpstrand, zombies lose the base creatures' special attacks, including improved grab and rake. They do keep extraordinary special qualities that improve melee or ranged attacks, though I can't think of any such abilities off the top of my head. Furthermore, behirs can't fly.

A zombie loses most special qualities of the base creature. It retains any extraordinary special qualities that improve its melee or ranged attacks.

MisterSaturnine
2009-08-01, 04:56 AM
Hats off to you, Mister Vosh. Beautiful. Beautiful.

Teron
2009-08-01, 05:00 AM
There's a distinction between special attacks and special qualities. Improved grab and rake are the former; zombies only keep a subset of the latter (and, as I said, I can't think of any examples, since "improving attacks" isn't really what special qualities do).

oxinabox
2009-08-01, 05:08 AM
Yes. That's the reason. That, and zombies have more HP. If you just want someone to stand in front of you and soak up damage, you're better off with a zombie.
and that what a wizard needs.
A meat sheild.
Thats why wizards need fighters.
Wizards kill things.
fighters keep wizards alive.
But we can replace them with zombies.
All Caster Party!
You undead hoards are going to do nothing compaired to a well aimed firebally or even a hard metamagic reached inflect to the face.

But You can/t animate outsiders at all.
someone before said you could... but you can't
the corpes disapear.

Talic
2009-08-01, 05:12 AM
Partial charges have all the restrictions of standard charges, including the 10 foot minimum movement.

Jayngfet
2009-08-01, 05:29 AM
and that what a wizard needs.
A meat sheild.
Thats why wizards need fighters.
Wizards kill things.
fighters keep wizards alive.
But we can replace them with zombies.
All Caster Party!
You undead hoards are going to do nothing compaired to a well aimed firebally or even a hard metamagic reached inflect to the face.

But You can/t animate outsiders at all.
someone before said you could... but you can't
the corpes disapear.

Um, no they don't. SOME undead disappear but most stay right where they are. The exception apparently is demons, who almost always explode, dissolve into ichor, or some other freaky effect(some corpses split into a hundred tiny versions of each other and fight to the death until one is left, which explodes like a cherry bomb). Angels, devils, archons, and whatnot do no such thing. The soul and body are one, meaning they can't be resurrected short of wish. However the corpses themselves don't dissapear.

Irreverent Fool
2009-08-01, 05:41 AM
Zombies are quite useful if you need an undead minion that can fly, or something to guard a small area. They are particularly useful in dungeons.

Unfortunately, since they are both slow and stinky, they can make travelling more difficult.

obnoxious
sig

Fizban
2009-08-01, 05:50 AM
All the jokes in this thread have been awesome, nice job.

Better monsters have more HD, so zombifying cheats you out of potential awesome or extra minions. Zombies are useful if you need hp sacks right now, or if you want something to keep it's fly speed, but otherwise skeletons are the way to go. Always go for the most natural attack possible: hydras and true dragons are great, big cats and bears can be good even without their pounce and grab.

The exception is the zombie dragon template (Draconomicon), which you can use instead of the normal zombie template when you animate a dragon. They're still slow, which makes the beautiful pile of natural attacks weep, but they retain an awesome fly speed, half their breath weapon, and don't double their hit dice (doubling the HD of a decent dragon usually puts it out of range). If you can find a spell that grants the target pounce it's the best of all worlds.

As always, remember to carry a scroll or two of Desecrate so when you kill that target with 4*your level in HD, you can ignore that single casting limit and raise something stronger than you are.

oxinabox
2009-08-01, 05:54 AM
Um, no they don't. SOME undead disappear but most stay right where they are. The exception apparently is demons, who almost always explode, dissolve into ichor, or some other freaky effect(some corpses split into a hundred tiny versions of each other and fight to the death until one is left, which explodes like a cherry bomb). Angels, devils, archons, and whatnot do no such thing. The soul and body are one, meaning they can't be resurrected short of wish. However the corpses themselves don't dissapear.

My bad, I stand corrected

Talic
2009-08-01, 06:14 AM
Also note: Zombies do have an advantage over Skellies. Per corpse, they have twice the BAB. Sometimes this is an important distinction, when the max HD of the corpses is limited.

AslanCross
2009-08-01, 06:46 AM
Um, no they don't. SOME undead disappear but most stay right where they are. The exception apparently is demons, who almost always explode, dissolve into ichor, or some other freaky effect(some corpses split into a hundred tiny versions of each other and fight to the death until one is left, which explodes like a cherry bomb). Angels, devils, archons, and whatnot do no such thing. The soul and body are one, meaning they can't be resurrected short of wish. However the corpses themselves don't dissapear.

[Citation Needed]. This is one of the most awesome things I've ever heard.

Sliver
2009-08-01, 07:00 AM
Also note: Zombies do have an advantage over Skellies. Per corpse, they have twice the BAB. Sometimes this is an important distinction, when the max HD of the corpses is limited.

It was noted. It was also noted that you can't zombify the stronger monsters due to the HD limits..

Jayngfet
2009-08-01, 07:35 AM
[Citation Needed]. This is one of the most awesome things I've ever heard.

I remember reading it in some 3.5 book I was browsing on a table of such effect whenever a non balor demon dies. I went back a couple of weeks later and both remaining copies were gone(the shop in .question had half off 3.5 books)

jmbrown
2009-08-01, 08:05 AM
Zombies are limited to 10hd and they must have a skeletal system. Also, from personal experience characters are more likely to use slashing and piercing weapons over blunt (although most experienced players carry several side arms).

I honestly see no appeal in zombies at all. I can have a skeletal t-rex but I can't even make a zombie hill giant? BOO!

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-01, 08:10 AM
I honestly see no appeal in zombies at all. I can have a skeletal t-rex but I can't even make a zombie hill giant? BOO!

Zombies are good at low levels(6-8) when your biggest HD enemy is only 6HD. That means a zombie of that enemy has 12 HD and a +6 BAB versus merely 6HD and +3 BAB for the skeleton.

At higher levels, both zombies and skeletons are for chumps.

Oslecamo
2009-08-01, 08:42 AM
At higher levels, both zombies and skeletons are for chumps.

No, no, at high levels is when you start awakening your zombies and skeletons and buffing them to hell and back to create the ultimate expendable minions.

Scarlet Knight
2009-08-01, 08:55 AM
Hey, I've never made love to a zombie before, but after my first wife, I can sympathize! Bada bum! :smallredface:

Anyway, the best reason for zombies is role-playing.

Everyone, say it with me: "Braaaaainsss!"

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-01, 09:03 AM
Personally I'll always prefer the strategy of sending dozens of Zombie bats that explode when destroyed at the enemy. If nothing else it makes for one hell of a distraction (especially if they're not a caster and they have to physically destroy each one while in flight :smallbiggrin:). The bandit king eventually gave up and surrendered when the DM remembered that the Cleric had another swarm waiting in a Handy Haversack.

Johel
2009-08-01, 09:16 AM
Facts are, individual skeletons, in comparison to zombies from the same base creature :
Strengths :

cost less
are more accurate in range
have better AC
have better Initiative
have better land speed
have better reflex save
have more attacks
have cold immunity

Weakness :

have less hit points
are less accurate in melee
inflict less melee damages
cannot naturally fly


If you want a melee fighter who can endure a fight and whose attacks hit and inflict damages, you take a zombie. They are great against ranged threaths, since there aren't many ranged weapons which deal slashing damages. Also, if you want a flying mount.
If you want minions or ranged fighters, you take the skeletons and pray the enemy doesn't have a sling.

For the "no flying skeletons", let me enlight you with this :

Speed
Winged skeletons can’t use their wings to fly. If the base creature flew magically, so can the skeleton.
No such creature comes to my mind but I'm sure some of you have an idea.

Kelpstrand
2009-08-01, 09:30 AM
For the "no flying skeletons", let me enlight you with this :

No such creature comes to my mind but I'm sure some of you have an idea.

Beholder?

Wow text minimums are inconvenient for snappy one word answers.

Johel
2009-08-01, 09:39 AM
Beholder?

Wow text minimums are inconvenient for snappy one word answers.

That was fast :smallsmile:


Personally I'll always prefer the strategy of sending dozens of Zombie bats that explode when destroyed at the enemy.

I checked for the bats. Can they get a claw attack as zombie ? They have no hands (or at least, they are using them to fly) so...

If they can't, can we animate swarms ?
Vermin swarms ?

EDIT : quick inspiration :
Mummy Cat
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/36/78661913_29e14c7915.jpg?v=0

Anybody got a template for that one ?

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-01, 10:12 AM
No, no, at high levels is when you start awakening your zombies and skeletons and buffing them to hell and back to create the ultimate expendable minions.

Or you could be making Mummies instead. Or Skeletal/Zombie Dragons. Or Shadows. No, casting Animate Dead at high level is for chumps like your Spell-Stitched Mummy commanders.

Quirinus_Obsidian
2009-08-01, 10:26 AM
+1 to Libris Mortis. Terrible latin~esque name notwithstanding. That is one of the first books I ever got, and I still love it to this day.

Took the Minotaur skeleton (in the book), made it Vicious, Fiery, and Nimble using the same templates in the book. Now that was a fun battle. Also having it in a Desecrated temple made it even funnier.


----------------
Now playing: The Gathering - We Just Stopped Breathing (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/the+gathering/track/we+just+stopped+breathing)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

Drider
2009-08-01, 10:37 AM
The main reason I pick skeletons over zombies is, that zombies are about as strong, but have twice the HD, meaning you can only control half as many. When I play the villain though, I trade 1 of his feats and just let him control as much undead as the plot requires. I like controlling a bunch of guys and just throwing them at half the encounter, and having the party focus on the other half.

RS14
2009-08-01, 01:30 PM
The main reason I pick skeletons over zombies is, that zombies are about as strong, but have twice the HD, meaning you can only control half as many. When I play the villain though, I trade 1 of his feats and just let him control as much undead as the plot requires. I like controlling a bunch of guys and just throwing them at half the encounter, and having the party focus on the other half.

Actually, control isn't that big a deal. Create more than you can control, release the undead with the most HD, and cast Command Undead. It works for 1 day/CL, although it can be dispelled. Still, your opponents won't necessarily realize that some of your undead are being Commanded while others are subject to your direct control, and may never try to dispel. Even if they do, uncontrolled mindless undead will keep on fighting regardless.

VirOath
2009-08-01, 02:01 PM
Remember, Undead keep their subtypes of the original creatures as well as abilities relating to their melee combat. This is a huge boon. Remember that Animate Undead is the best thing since sliced bread for a necromancer, with only Mummies and Shades being a notch above.

You have to look at something to decide whether it would make a better Zombie or a Skeleton.

For example, a Hydra can make a 3.0 like partial charge and attack with all of it's heads as a standard action. Zombifying it doubles it's HD in addition to the other benefits.

Also anything that can fly you will want to be made into Zombies. Skeletons retain most movements, zombies retain ALL. (Skeletons only retain flight if they were doing it by magical means, no wings.)

And you can toss in Awaken Undead to provide it with feats and skills, like Fly By Attack.

But you need to look at the meat and bones of a creature to understand if it would be a better zombie or skeleton. Even then remember that Low HD, High LA creatures make the best undead, things like Giants (Which gain boosts from their Sub-types) or Outsiders (Which normally have insane Nat Armor that is increased by Zombifying them).

More information can be found in the Necromancer's Handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=599129&page=1&pp=30)

*.*.*.*
2009-08-01, 08:17 PM
Have you ever tried making love to skeleton?

Nimble bones:smallbiggrin:




Man, I love Libris Mortis and the corpsecrafter feats

AslanCross
2009-08-02, 06:38 AM
I remember reading it in some 3.5 book I was browsing on a table of such effect whenever a non balor demon dies. I went back a couple of weeks later and both remaining copies were gone(the shop in .question had half off 3.5 books)

Ah, found it. It's a 'demonic death throes' table in Fiendish Codex I. These are pretty amusing (and hilarious) flavor entries.

nysisobli
2009-08-02, 07:55 AM
......I one ran a buisness with gentle reposed prostitute zombies....my main export was the young gold dragon......

we used some skeletons once, but it chafed a little to much. The guards shut it down.

Well on the bright side, with a zombie it makes its own lube XD

oxinabox
2009-08-02, 08:07 AM
Bahamut Protect!
that almost made me physically sick.

Another plus for the skilli's:
Maintain their full swim speed.

My PC's had undead towing their ships.

PLUN
2009-08-02, 09:52 AM
Zombies are the serious choice of a Necromancer with a sense of asthetics. Sure, against those damn adventurers, opt for a skeleton every time, but some days the enemy isn't exactly tough and it's about time people remember why a person in a unisex robe with a stick is something to be feared.

I mean, skeletons are scary, yes. But zombies are terrifying? The difference? Scary doesn't stand in the river all day, letting dead flesh slough off into the proles drinking water. Scary isn't your old war buddy pressed against the arrow slit slavering for your guts and brains. Scary isn't a shambling horde of not to tough, slow, stupid monsters that is going to get you anyway.

Zombies are the choice to put the willies up the proles.