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Kobold_Love
2009-08-01, 06:21 AM
So I was just looking at the following image, and just knew I had to stat her up somehow for my campaign world.




http://fc00.deviantart.com/fs22/i/2007/320/f/b/Kobold_by_carlmcintyre.jpg


http://carlmcintyre.deviantart.com/art/Kobold-69959040


Any advice would be appreciated.

3rd party supplements are OK. I do have the BoEF, but I ahve not given it a complete read.

SilverSheriff
2009-08-01, 06:30 AM
First off she needs an effect that turns people who look at her into stone.:smallamused:

No Save.

kamikasei
2009-08-01, 06:34 AM
You don't. Seduction is something handled via RP. Such an NPC should have high charisma, diplomacy, and probably bluff and sense motive, but it's not like seduction is handled via feat-granted mind-controlling powers. If one NPC is to seduce another, it happens. If you want an NPC to seduce a PC, then you can try, but you can't force the PC to play along.

(That is, unless you want someone with supernatural powers who uses them for seduction - which is to say, either a conventional seducer (supernatural powers = bonuses to charisma, bluff etc) or a rapist.)

Yuki Akuma
2009-08-01, 06:47 AM
PCs are immune to all skill checks that influence them. And their players will be miffed if you use magic to do the same.

So I agree with Kamikasei - you don't.

Belial_the_Leveler
2009-08-01, 06:51 AM
PCs are immune to all skill checks that influence them. And their players will be miffed if you use magic to do the same.

My succubus sorceress says otherwise. The male PCs that met her in one evil campaign agreed with her. :smalltongue:

AslanCross
2009-08-01, 06:52 AM
The best thing to do is use a Beguiler and use magic. Prepare to get pelted with nuts/d20s/source books/miniatures, though.

Yuki Akuma
2009-08-01, 06:53 AM
My succubus sorceress says otherwise. The male PCs that met her in one evil campaign agreed with her. :smalltongue:

Okay, mature players will be miffed. :P

Glyphic
2009-08-01, 06:59 AM
Keep in mind, some people do not want to see seduction in their heroic fantasy game.

Make sure your players (all of them) are cool with that maturity, or lack there of, before you introduce such themes. Otherwise, it can end badly. :(

Belial_the_Leveler
2009-08-01, 07:10 AM
Or just cast blindness/deafness on them.

hotel_papa
2009-08-01, 07:12 AM
Agree with the above... though, I did get Katarin Tolstoff to successfully manipulate and charm one of my PC's... by successfully manipulating and charming the player. But, you may not have my dark, dark powers.

Real question: How and why does that picture have the word "Kobold" attached?

Yuki Akuma
2009-08-01, 07:34 AM
Real question: How and why does that picture have the word "Kobold" attached?

...Because it is in fact a kobold?

Sliver
2009-08-01, 07:39 AM
If not the horns.. I would have said its a cat!

Jalor
2009-08-01, 08:06 AM
I do have the BoEF, but I ahve not given it a complete read.
You might want to. It has rules for seduction.

It also has rules in which you roll for pretend sex. And then consult a chart, for pretend sex. And Pixies can breed with Cloud Giants, according to it.

The Gilded Duke
2009-08-01, 08:32 AM
You might want to. It has rules for seduction.

It also has rules in which you roll for pretend sex. And then consult a chart, for pretend sex. And Pixies can breed with Cloud Giants, according to it.

Awesome.
Now I need to make a Half-Fey Cloud Giant.

Ashtar
2009-08-01, 08:59 AM
As long as everyone in the campaign is okay with sex and seduction being normal things that happen in D&D worlds too. I don't see any need to stat her up in a special way, probably a high charisma if she has an endearing personality and confidence to complement her astounding looks.

With kobold blood and I don't know what else she might have mixed it, she's probably a prime candidate for beguiler or sorceress.

The one thing is you cannot force (apart from compulsions) a character to fall in love, it will only come from a good roleplayer when it is expressed in a believable form. Would you believe it? Love beyond race, species and form. A force that transcends and connects two souls? It could make a fantastic story with the right characters.

Decoy Lockbox
2009-08-01, 01:43 PM
The one thing is you cannot force (apart from compulsions) a character to fall in love, it will only come from a good roleplayer when it is expressed in a believable form. Would you believe it? Love beyond race, species and form. A force that transcends and connects two souls? It could make a fantastic story with the right characters.

Whats love got to do with it?

@ the OP: the first step in seduction is spelling "seduction" correctly.

Tiki Snakes
2009-08-01, 01:51 PM
Agree with the above... though, I did get Katarin Tolstoff to successfully manipulate and charm one of my PC's... by successfully manipulating and charming the player. But, you may not have my dark, dark powers.

Real question: How and why does that picture have the word "Kobold" attached?

I was going to say; "I'm guessing it has little to do with dnd kobolds. :)"
But then I checked the rest of his gallery, and yeah... I guess we are infact looking at a half-kobold, or just a very manga-fied kobold girl.

(I'd prefer to think of it as a half-kobold, personally, as I tend to run Kobolds as not being Mammals. ;) )

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-08-01, 01:56 PM
This picture brings up questions that do not need to be answered.

Totally Guy
2009-08-01, 02:02 PM
There was an instance in one of our games where one PC used mind control to get another PC fulfill certain services to the first PC.

If I was on the receiving end I'd have been upset.

I was expecting this from the second player but it didn't happen. Phew, I thought, crisis averted.

Then the next week the second player was doing the session recap. And he described the event in far more passion and detail than anybody was comfortable with.

I don't think anybody will be mind controlling such favours off another PC again.:smalltongue:

AstralFire
2009-08-01, 03:02 PM
Whats love got to do with it?


What's love, but a secondhand emotion? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFQlZht2DU4&fmt=18)

Milskidasith
2009-08-01, 03:06 PM
I was thinking of that song from the moment he made that post.

You win a half internet cloud giant.

Eloel
2009-08-01, 03:48 PM
You win a half internet cloud giant.
And with that, you win the other half.

thorgrim29
2009-08-01, 04:44 PM
I was going to say; "I'm guessing it has little to do with dnd kobolds. :)"
But then I checked the rest of his gallery, and yeah... I guess we are infact looking at a half-kobold, or just a very manga-fied kobold girl.

(I'd prefer to think of it as a half-kobold, personally, as I tend to run Kobolds as not being Mammals. ;) )



Maybe the idea of kobolds as reptilian is just another part or Carl Glittergold's propaganda to discredit the children of Kluthurmark.

mistformsquirrl
2009-08-01, 04:48 PM
The best thing to do is use a Beguiler and use magic. Prepare to get pelted with nuts/d20s/source books/miniatures, though.

Why use those? <^_^> There are two reasons I carry my bokken when I game.

1) To demonstrate how badass my character is when cleaving an orc in twain (also known as "How incredibly dorky I look attempting the same" >.>)

2) To beat senseless DMs who cast Dominate on me. (As a fighter, my Will save is crap; thus, alternate methods must be used >.>)

<@_@> standard disclaimer that this is a joke <,< I don't beat the DM with my bokken. <-_-> It's actually for bashing other players, muwahhahahaa!

Lord Vukodlak
2009-08-01, 07:20 PM
By her appearance I'd say Tiefling. I'm guessing the artist just gave a kobold the furry treatment. If you can turn a house cat into a catgirl turning a kobold into that is quite doable.

Seduction is a part of the bluff skill however at best it "convinces them that your romantic intentions are sincere" (This is a use for the bluff skill pulled from the old sword and fist). The PC isn't obligated to respond in kind. Neither would an NPC for that matter if its not in there character.(like a NPC whose devoutly married)

So a seductress needs good charisma , a good bluff, and sense motive. Diplomacy would probably help to. As would maybe some perform skill like singing or dancing. For a class, rogue, sorcerer, bard, beguiler etc.

I'd point out to others that at no point did the author indicate the seductress was intended to seduce the PC for some foul purpose. Some DM's do actually add a love interest.

Yukitsu
2009-08-01, 07:34 PM
I'd point out to others that at no point did the author indicate the seductress was intended to seduce the PC for some foul purpose. Some DM's do actually add a love interest.

I have more trouble with the latter than the former, and my DMs know it. If it's for some foul, malevolent purpose, usually I or the party offs them, and we all move on, but when it's someone that genuinely cares about my character, I always feel obligated to be the Link to their Zelda, which inevitably results in me getting rather jerked around by the actual bad guys. :smallannoyed:

What was the worst, was when someone did care for my character, and was also an evil villain. I guess my characters play a bit like Elan when they are guys.

Pika...
2009-08-01, 07:40 PM
(I'd prefer to think of it as a half-kobold, personally, as I tend to run Kobolds as not being Mammals. ;) )

Well, aren't 0ed-2ed kobolds doglike?

From what I understand many DMs continued this fluff into 3.x.

TheCountAlucard
2009-08-01, 08:00 PM
A little off-topic, but still a tad relevant and/or funny...

Me (DM): Remember, you guys planned on teleporting tomorrow, and then travelling to another plane of existance. Is there anything you want to do before then?
Warlock: I get drunk!
Scout: He's getting drunk?!? I get drunk!
Me: Okay. Scout, you end up having to spend a few hours in jail after a mishap that occurred during a friendly game of darts.
Warlock: What about me?
Me: You end up seducing a halfling woman that you could've sworn was taller at the time.
Warlock: Ah, beer goggles, okay.

FlawedParadigm
2009-08-01, 08:01 PM
Basically, just take Summer Glau, give her whatever stats you think she ought to have (max Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive, to be sure) and go to town. Going by the rest of the internet, you ought to swiftly have all the male characters and two-thirds of the female ones in the palm of your hand in about three rounds.

Break
2009-08-01, 08:05 PM
Basically, just take Summer Glau, give her whatever stats you think she ought to have (max Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive, to be sure) and go to town. Going by the rest of the internet, you ought to swiftly have all the male characters and two-thirds of the female ones in the palm of your hand in about three rounds.

Three rounds? It would take that long?

AstralFire
2009-08-01, 08:07 PM
I never understood the attraction to Summer Glau.

If she showed up on my doorstep naked, I would be lightning fast to give her clothes so that I don't get accused of being a pedophile.

FlawedParadigm
2009-08-01, 08:13 PM
She's...twenty-eight. She's old enough to have been a mother to several posters here. I hardly think she qualifies for paedophilia.

AstralFire
2009-08-01, 08:14 PM
She's...twenty-eight. She's old enough to have been a mother to several posters here. I hardly think she qualifies for paedophilia.

Holy crap, she's older than me.

Regardless, she just looks child-like to me for some reason.

FlawedParadigm
2009-08-01, 08:21 PM
Holy crap, she's older than me.

Regardless, she just looks child-like to me for some reason.

Yeah, I think that's actually part of the appeal. If she looks that young now, imagine how good she'll look at 40 or 50. I think the appeal is that, if you were to marry her and grow old with her, you'll still be standing next to a fox when you yourself are starting to look a little, well, haggard.

Or at least that's my guess. I figure most people don't put that much conscious thought into it, but suspect that sort of thought process is going on subconsciously.

Pika...
2009-08-01, 08:23 PM
A little off-topic, but still a tad relevant and/or funny...

Me (DM): Remember, you guys planned on teleporting tomorrow, and then travelling to another plane of existance. Is there anything you want to do before then?
Warlock: I get drunk!
Scout: He's getting drunk?!? I get drunk!
Me: Okay. Scout, you end up having to spend a few hours in jail after a mishap that occurred during a friendly game of darts.
Warlock: What about me?
Me: You end up seducing a halfling woman that you could've sworn was taller at the time.
Warlock: Ah, beer goggles, okay.


Hey, some of us like halfling girls. >.>

Geddoe
2009-08-01, 09:10 PM
I never understood the attraction to Summer Glau.

I feel the same. She doesn't really hold a candle to any of the other Firefly women.

Civil War Man
2009-08-01, 10:30 PM
What was the worst, was when someone did care for my character, and was also an evil villain. I guess my characters play a bit like Elan when they are guys.

This can actually be fun for some games. I once played in a Star Wars game where all the characters were Jedi. One of the villains was a female Sith that the party eventually learned was a former Jedi that my character knew since we were all Padawans. The two of us were best friends for years, eventually becoming much more than friends. Eventually my character's master discovered us and threatened to have us kicked out of the Order. She subsequently flipped out and murdered the master, at which point my character flipped out, the two of us fought, and she ran away.

The hilarious thing was that this background was randomly generated through the GM's homebrew system. And when it came time to creating this villain, he randomly generated the character by the same method, and managed to draw every single "You are really strong in the Force" card, including race (she was Miraluka).

So there was this interesting dynamic where this one villain could have easily defeated the entire party without breaking much of a sweat, but couldn't bring herself to do it because if she did she would run the risk of seriously injuring me. Her overarching goal was to kidnap me and turn me to the Dark Side so then we could be together again. It made for some really cool storytelling.

FoE
2009-08-01, 10:43 PM
From what I understand, the Book of Erotic Fantasy may have Seduction rules, OP.

Alteran
2009-08-01, 11:54 PM
Holy crap, she's older than me.

Regardless, she just looks child-like to me for some reason.

Probably because when Firefly was filmed she was 21, and playing the part of a 17 year-old girl. So she was supposed to look underage (and this was also 7 years ago).


I feel the same. She doesn't really hold a candle to any of the other Firefly women.

I wouldn't put her last, but she can't compare to Kaylee. Well, okay, nobody can.

Random832
2009-08-02, 12:03 AM
Well, aren't 0ed-2ed kobolds doglike?

From what I understand many DMs continued this fluff into 3.x.

That's Kobolds Ate My Baby! and maybe WoW - they've always been lizardlike in D&D.

FlawedParadigm
2009-08-02, 12:05 AM
That's Kobolds Ate My Baby! and maybe WoW - they've always been lizardlike in D&D.

Er, no. That started in 3E. They were doglike before that.

Devils_Advocate
2009-08-02, 12:14 AM
I think that they've always been lizardlike and doglike, just in varying proportions. They had scaled skin to start with, I think, or at least fairly early on. And in 3E, they still yap like dogs. Nethack describes them as an odd mix of dog, lizard, and man, as I recall. It's probably easiest to think of them as that, if you want to reconcile their various descriptions.

I do not condone the inclusion of cute monster girls (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CuteMonsterGirl) of traditionally unattractive races. There is no perspective from which I can look at that and see it as positive. Whether I see it as stupid, gross, or vaguely offensive all depends, but it's... not good.

Random832
2009-08-02, 12:30 AM
Er, no. That started in 3E. They were doglike before that.

They are described as having "scaly hides" in 2E.

AstralFire
2009-08-02, 12:35 AM
I do not condone the inclusion of cute monster girls (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CuteMonsterGirl) of traditionally unattractive races. There is no perspective from which I can look at that and see it as positive. Whether I see it as stupid, gross, or vaguely offensive all depends, but it's... not good.

Agreed, completely.

FlawedParadigm
2009-08-02, 12:56 AM
They are described as having "scaly hides" in 2E.

Citation needed.

Monstrous Compendium pic had them with big floppy dog ears and everything.

Yukitsu
2009-08-02, 12:58 AM
This can actually be fun for some games. I once played in a Star Wars game where all the characters were Jedi. One of the villains was a female Sith that the party eventually learned was a former Jedi that my character knew since we were all Padawans. The two of us were best friends for years, eventually becoming much more than friends. Eventually my character's master discovered us and threatened to have us kicked out of the Order. She subsequently flipped out and murdered the master, at which point my character flipped out, the two of us fought, and she ran away.

The hilarious thing was that this background was randomly generated through the GM's homebrew system. And when it came time to creating this villain, he randomly generated the character by the same method, and managed to draw every single "You are really strong in the Force" card, including race (she was Miraluka).

So there was this interesting dynamic where this one villain could have easily defeated the entire party without breaking much of a sweat, but couldn't bring herself to do it because if she did she would run the risk of seriously injuring me. Her overarching goal was to kidnap me and turn me to the Dark Side so then we could be together again. It made for some really cool storytelling.

Yeah, I love those moments. The RP part of me revels in the motivation that it allows, but the munchkin in me that wants to live in an impervious wizards tower is usually less thrilled. :smalltongue:

Kylarra
2009-08-02, 01:11 AM
I do not condone the inclusion of cute monster girls (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CuteMonsterGirl) of traditionally unattractive races. There is no perspective from which I can look at that and see it as positive. Whether I see it as stupid, gross, or vaguely offensive all depends, but it's... not good.
That's an hour of my life I'd like back plz. :smalleek:

Pika...
2009-08-02, 01:32 AM
That's an hour of my life I'd like back plz. :smalleek:

I found it interesting, though it made me feel bad about myself...


And what is wrong with said trope?

Kylarra
2009-08-02, 01:33 AM
I found it interesting, though it made me feel bad about myself...


And what is wrong with said trope?TV tropes is bad late at night.

jeek
2009-08-02, 01:39 AM
I have a cunning plan. It involves Epic Magic, a Wizard/Master Specialist/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, a Druid/Master of Many Forms/Planar Shepard. a Sorcerer/Mindbender/Incantatrix/Fatespinner, a Ninja/Swashbucker/Dread Pirate, a Kobold Cloistered Cleric with the Kobold domain/Pun-Pun Knight Vindicator, Bard/Warweaver, a Shadowcraft Gnome, a Hulking Hurler, a Witchalock Witchalock, Fistbeard Beardfist, two tweezers, 15 ounces of oil, the Pope, and a dull penknife.

Your sig seems like it could be a very interesting seduction scenario.

Jayngfet
2009-08-02, 01:39 AM
TV tropes is bad late at night.

On the contrary, TV tropes is very very good, all the time.

JadedDM
2009-08-02, 01:39 AM
Barely clearing 3 feet in height, kobolds have scaly hides that range from dark, rusty brown to a rusty black. They smell of damp dogs and stagnant water...their non-prerehensile rat-like tails, and their language (which sounds like small dogs yapping)...

The ecology section also mentions they hatch from eggs, like lizards. So they seem to have dog, lizard and rat-like qualities.

Tempest Fennac
2009-08-02, 01:40 AM
Regarding the character's apperance and what you want to do with her, I'd say Catfolk Beguiller would be the best choice (Crystal Keep's race and class pages contain the details for both of those if you don't have RotW or the PHB 2: http://crystalkeep.com/d20/ ).

Pika...
2009-08-02, 01:42 AM
TV tropes is bad late at night.

I was referring to the people who could "not condone" it.

Kylarra
2009-08-02, 01:50 AM
On the contrary, TV tropes is very very good, all the time.Not if you want to sleep... or do anything that day.

Gorgondantess
2009-08-02, 01:53 AM
That's an hour of my life I'd like back plz. :smalleek:

Yes. I'd like 2.:smalleek:
(Although I did end up stumbling upon a cool song about an anglerfish, so I think that evens things out nicely.)

Coidzor
2009-08-02, 03:11 AM
Or at least that's my guess. I figure most people don't put that much conscious thought into it, but suspect that sort of thought process is going on subconsciously.

Nah. superficial attraction doesn't take into account the long term. If they think she looks childlike and think she looks hot as a result, this speaks poorly of them. If they think she looks a bit young for her age as a flaw but still find her attractive then this is... less suspect...


Hey, some of us like halfling girls. >.>

If the PHB is anything to go by, they're comparatively/relatively bustier than a human woman scaled down to that size...:smallwink: That and an enlarge person spell...


I do not condone the inclusion of cute monster girls (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CuteMonsterGirl) of traditionally unattractive races. There is no perspective from which I can look at that and see it as positive. Whether I see it as stupid, gross, or vaguely offensive all depends, but it's... not good.

I just don't condone turning species which are already humanoid into cute monster girls or furries. Mostly the furries though, since there are some exceptions I can understand. Like Lum, the space-oni-princess who looks like a human with horns rather than an ugly as all get out ogre-monster-giant-creature IN SPAAAACE!

The idea of a kobold furry is doubly offensive for being a furry and missing the point.

Also, I agree with the dog-lizard-man-thing. ...man-bear-pig! So that's what orcs are! :smallbiggrin:


She subsequently flipped out and murdered the master, at which point my character flipped out, the two of us fought, and she ran away.

It is depressingly easy to murder Jedi Masters.

OP: if BoEF fails, Nymphology might have something for you for seduction rules. There might be another third party thing out there that's fairly infamous... I believe there's a web resource along the lines of the book of unlawful carnal knowledge or something....

Pika...
2009-08-02, 03:39 AM
Nah. superficial attraction doesn't take into account the long term. If they think she looks childlike and think she looks hot as a result, this speaks poorly of them. If they think she looks a bit young for her age as a flaw but still find her attractive then this is... less suspect...



If the PHB is anything to go by, they're comparatively/relatively bustier than a human woman scaled down to that size...:smallwink: That and an enlarge person spell...

But what is wrong with their size as is?

Unlike midgets/"little people" IRL they are perfectly proportioned.


The following image has had me captivated for quite some time (even planning a plot story around it):

http://paizo.com/store/magazines/dragon/issues/2001/285


http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/elmore_p048al.jpg


p.s. I just realized that he sells copies of his art. $55 dollars for an 18"x24" poster, but it seems so worth it. I will need to save up now...

Coidzor
2009-08-02, 07:20 AM
That picture belongs in the Dungeons and Dames thread, and things based off of it might go well with a sort of 3 muskateers-ish interpretation of Eberron.

Actually, my enlarge person quip was actually a rather bad reference to one of the books by the creator of Eberron. Also, marshmallow hell possibilities go up if you consider relativistic cup sizes going up a size or two....(NSFW) (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarshmallowHell)

Pika...
2009-08-02, 07:30 AM
That picture belongs in the Dungeons and Dames thread, and things based off of it might go well with a sort of 3 muskateers-ish interpretation of Eberron.

Actually, my enlarge person quip was actually a rather bad reference to one of the books by the creator of Eberron. Also, marshmallow hell possibilities go up if you consider relativistic cup sizes going up a size or two....(NSFW) (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarshmallowHell)

So in the book this is how a human/halfling couple deal with the size issue (which really is not necessary, even IRL)?


And I guess she does have that feel in the picture. Did not quite see that before.

What I was originally planning for the story/adventure was for her to have seduced a somewhat/slightly wealthy store owner (the ones PCs probably buy from before getting asked/payed to help), but then runs off with almost every penny he has. The guy still in love asks/pays/offers to pay once he gets his money back the adventurers to help him find her. They then learn she is a member of a big foreign thieves guild, and they later find out she is in trouble with them.

Hopefully by the end they will save her, the guy ends up with much less than what he had. Then insert a cliche trope (can anyone name it? I know someone here could find a link on TVtropes in seconds) where he lets her off the hook with the local governments, leaves to his shop heartbroken and defeated, but the next time the PCs visit his shop they discover she...well you can guess the trope from here.

Basically I want to make this a bit of a love story adventure. Something a bit different than the big "The world is doomed if we don't..." plotline.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-08-02, 08:19 AM
What I was originally planning for the story/adventure was for her to have seduced a somewhat/slightly wealthy store owner (the ones PCs probably buy from before getting asked/payed to help), but then runs off with almost every penny he has.
{snip}

This is good, can I steal it?

This really fits well with the "Good and evil aren't always absolutes and not every fight is for the world" I'm trying to go for.

Zergrusheddie
2009-08-02, 08:41 AM
You can't tell me how my character feels. (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1168)

Anytime you are going to use Diplomacy based skills on a player it gets to be very difficult, especially if you contend that some encounters are meant to challenge the players and not the character. *Cough* Tomb of Horrors *Cough*

Using Seduction is a very slippery slope and can change the balance of the game. If I were a player and the DM pulled that on the group, I would be going into market trying to swindle other adventure-types or travelers that the "art" that I have is worth 2,500 gold but it is stolen and I am looking to short sell it for 1,000, which means that the DM could just as easily pull it on me because why would my Chaotic Neutral Barbarian every turn down such a great deal, especially when I failed my Sense Motive check.

Unless someone is willing to play into the "I am getting seduced" it will never work because it falls into the you telling you how they feel. I feel that it is a slippery slope where it sets a precedent that I do not think most people want to have to go through. Do you want the Bard to tell a shop keeper:

"The King sent me to commandeer your wares as there is an army approaching. I do not have my papers because I was pick-pocketed on the way here. There is no time to lose!" The Bard is running at a 1d20+48 Bluff. Even with the +20 to Sense Motive because of the unbelievable Bluff, the Aristocrat 10 shopkeeper with with 1d20+35 is going to be in trouble.

However, as the DM, you could more or less do whatever you want. You could just tell the player to roll a sense motive. If they fail, simply state that they are seduced and you can go from there. I would do it as:

Temptress gets a Bluff or Diplomacy check that stays for all other checks. If Player does not beat it, they are seduced. Temptress can than enforce Player's action, such as buying her more drinks, paying her room, or starting fights with people she does not like in the bar. Each time she tries to sway the Player, he gets to reroll with a +1 for each time she has tried to sway them. Once player beats the roll, they realize that they are just getting swayed by a pretty face. More ridiculous actions, like "Kill the mayor", offer serious bonuses to the roll or are not even done. You could use the Bluff chart (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/Bluff.htm) for a basis.

Best of luck
-Eddie

Civil War Man
2009-08-02, 10:27 AM
It is depressingly easy to murder Jedi Masters.

Yeah, but that was intentional. The GM had all of the possible background cards be various Jedi cliches, and I managed to draw the two that are most common but fairly rarely combined (Fell in Love and Murdered Master). After that, it was a simple case of cooking up a plausible enough scenario.

It helped that the love interest turned out to be the 3rd most powerful Force user in the whole game, after Darth Vader and Mace Windu. The game was an Alternate Reality where Mace Windu was off-planet when the Council tried to arrest Palpatine. So he was the one who fought the Emperor at the end of Revenge of the Sith, where he proceeded to pound Palpatine into the dirt. The game starts with the players being survivors of Order 66 arriving at Coruscant as the galaxy degenerates into Pro-Empire versus Pro-Republic civil war.

Pika...
2009-08-02, 01:41 PM
This is good, can I steal it?

This really fits well with the "Good and evil aren't always absolutes and not every fight is for the world" I'm trying to go for.

Someone wants to copy my plotline? :smalleek:

That's a surprise. Go ahead! It'd be an honor for someone to do that.


p.s. If you ever run it, could you please tell me how it went? Would love to hear how a more experienced DM took one of my idea, and then compare. (Not neccesary though.)

The Dark Fiddler
2009-08-02, 02:09 PM
Someone wants to copy my plotline? :smalleek:

That's a surprise. Go ahead! It'd be an honor for someone to do that.


p.s. If you ever run it, could you please tell me how it went? Would love to hear how a more experienced DM took one of my idea, and then compare. (Not neccesary though.)

Well, my friend's DMing right now, and I won't DM until he's done, which he says will take awhile (I believe him, with school starting soon which will cut into our playing time).

Also, if you're referring to me as the more experienced DM, then I'm sorry to let you down, this will be my first time DMing. If not, disregard this section of the post.

Devils_Advocate
2009-08-03, 11:32 AM
What I was originally planning for the story/adventure was for her to have seduced a somewhat/slightly wealthy store owner (the ones PCs probably buy from before getting asked/payed to help), but then runs off with almost every penny he has. The guy still in love asks/pays/offers to pay once he gets his money back the adventurers to help him find her. They then learn she is a member of a big foreign thieves guild, and they later find out she is in trouble with them.
"Yeah, she stole all of my savings. But more than that... she stole my heart. *Sigh* <3"

I wouldn't rely on the PCs sympathizing with a jerk character just because she's sexy and her bad decisions are finally catching up with her, though. Those things do make jerks sympathetic, but not to everyone.


Something a bit different than the big "The world is doomed if we don't..." plotline.
Yeah, "We have to save the world!" has been done so many times in so many ways that it's kinda trite.

Random832
2009-08-03, 12:24 PM
I've always said that a player saying "I'm not convinced" in response to a successful NPC bluff/diplomacy check is on the same level as them saying "I'm not hit" in response to a successful NPC attack roll. Or, for that matter, "I'm not shaken" in response to a mechanically defined fear effect. (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1168)

As a DM, I'd let it slide, but then later:
"You miss."

"What! I rolled a natural 20!"

"But the monster doesn't want it to hit, so it misses."

"You can't just say it misses!"

"Well, if you can just say that that bluff check didn't convince you of anything, I don't see what the problem is. Or maybe you'd like to play D&D - let me know, we can start any time"

Devils_Advocate
2009-08-03, 12:52 PM
"Just because you're not convinced doesn't mean that your character isn't."

paddyfool
2009-08-03, 12:57 PM
Seduction... is OK. Just as long as it's not over-used. Just like mind-affecting magic - it's fun to use the odd Fear, Dominate, Confuse etc. effect on the party, but every time you do it, you're taking control of his character away from the player (assuming they fail their save). Too much of that is just not fun any more.

Rixx
2009-08-03, 01:18 PM
The problem with ruling seduction from a rules-standpoint is that it doesn't take into account that different characters are going to be more or less susceptible to being seduced, independent of how many ranks they have in Sense Motive.

For example, one of my friends (who DMs both games I'm in right now) had a d20 Modern character who'd basically go for anything female that moves. He actually did get seduced once, and hammed it up being totally enthralled by the NPC. Our characters almost left him there. (Chaotic Neutral party.)

On the other side of the coin, I have a character who has a deep-seated fear of being touched by anyone (though not of being struck, oddly). This character also has a somewhat skewed view of their own gender identity (spending most of the time disguised as the opposite gender). This character would be pretty much impossible to seduce, even if magically fascinated (will save when being commanded to do anything against their nature - I.E. allowing themselves to be touched).

AstralFire
2009-08-03, 01:45 PM
This is where circumstance bonuses with good DMing come into account. That said, the extreme imprecision of the D&D social system can cause many people to say "it's just simpler to ignore it for PCs" - because when you become highly dependent on circumstance bonuses to balance, you're a razor's edge from ad hoc freeform for that component.

Seatbelt
2009-08-03, 01:57 PM
Basically, just take Summer Glau, give her whatever stats you think she ought to have (max Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive, to be sure) and go to town. Going by the rest of the internet, you ought to swiftly have all the male characters and two-thirds of the female ones in the palm of your hand in about three rounds.

As an object to lust over, I think Summer Glau is wildly over rated.

Zaq
2009-08-03, 11:38 PM
That's Kobolds Ate My Baby!

Also known as real Kobolds. None of this "dragondragondragondragon" crap. None of these scales and traps and sorcery nonsenses. Real Kobolds bark, and eat babies, and frequently suffer Horrible Deaths for very little reason at all. Full stop.

ALL HAIL KING TORG!

Pika...
2009-08-03, 11:58 PM
Also known as real Kobolds. None of this "dragondragondragondragon" crap. None of these scales and traps and sorcery nonsenses. Real Kobolds bark, and eat babies, and frequently suffer Horrible Deaths for very little reason at all. Full stop.

ALL HAIL KING TORG!

God I have had the book for two years yet have never enjoyed a single game. :smallfrown:

Although I liked Vor enough to replace Kurtulmak with my my games.