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View Full Version : [d20r, Class] Cleric (huge work in progress)



Fax Celestis
2009-08-01, 01:09 PM
Warning: this is nowhere near complete. I'm hammering away at it as quickly as I can, but damn is it difficult.

HD: d6

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special | Orisons | Litanies | Devotions | Supplications | Invocations
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2 | Domain | 1 | -- | -- | -- | --
2nd | +1 | +0 | +0 | +3 | Bonus Feat | 2 | -- | -- | -- | --
3rd | +1 | +1 | +1 | +3 | - | 3 | -- | -- | -- | --
4th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Domain Power | 3 | 1 | -- | -- | --
5th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Divine Empowerment | 4 | 1 | -- | -- | --
6th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +5 | - | 5 | 2 | -- | -- | --
7th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +5 | Domain Power | 5 | 3 | -- | -- | --
8th | +4 | +2 | +2 | +6 | Bonus Feat | 6 | 3 | 1 | -- | --
9th | +4 | +3 | +3 | +6 | - | 7 | 4 | 1 | -- | --
10th | +5 | +3 | +3 | +7 | Domain Power | 7 | 5 | 2 | -- | --
11th | +5 | +3 | +3 | +7 | Divine Empowerment | 8 | 5 | 3 | -- | --
12th | +6/+1 | +4 | +4 | +8 | - | 9 | 6 | 3 | 1 | --
13th | +6/+1 | +4 | +4 | +8 | Domain Power | 9 | 7 | 4 | 1 | --
14th | +7/+2 | +4 | +4 | +9 | Bonus Feat | 10 | 7 | 5 | 2 | --
15th | +7/+2 | +5 | +5 | +9 | - | 11 | 8 | 5 | 3 | --
16th | +8/+3 | +5 | +5 | +10 | Domain Power | 11 | 9 | 6 | 3 | 1
17th | +8/+3 | +5 | +5 | +10 | Divine Empowerment | 12 | 9 | 7 | 4 | 1
18th | +9/+4 | +6 | +6 | +11 | - | 13 | 10 | 7 | 5 | 2
19th | +9/+4 | +6 | +6 | +11 | Bonus Feat | 13 | 11 | 8 | 5 | 3
20th | +10/+5 | +6 | +6 | +12 | Domain Power | 14 | 11 | 9 | 6 | 3[/table]

Skills: A cleric possesses the Priest skill sets and chooses one other skill set. 4 + Int skill points per level, x4 at first level. Some domains also grant additional skills or skill points per level to the cleric.

Prowess: A cleric gains two points of prowess per level. Some domains also grant additional prowess per level.

Proficiencies: Clerics are proficient with simple weapons and with light armor. They are not proficient with martial weapons, medium or heavy armor, or with shields. Some domains grant additional proficiencies.

Prayers: at-will spell-like abilities

Domain: abilities based upon domain choice, allows access to domain-restricted prayers, determines divine empowerment

Bonus Feat: bonus ritual feat

Divine Empowerment: incremented ability based upon Aspect choice. Ex: Fire domain divine empowerment inc die size of [Fire] spells (1d8 at 5th, 1d10 at 11th, 1d12 at 17th).

Fax Celestis
2009-08-01, 01:11 PM
Prayers
Orisons
Equiv spell level: 0-2
Aid
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Type: Orison
Sphere: Any
Equivalent Spell Level: 2
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: 1 min/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes (Harmless)

Aid grants the target a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and saves against fear effects, plus 1d8 + caster level temporary hit points (to a maximum of 1d8+10 temporary hit points at caster level 10th).

Bane
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Type: Orison
Sphere: Any
Equivalent Spell Level: 1
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 50' radius
Target: Enemies within 50' radius centered on caster
Duration: 1 min/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No (harmless)

Bane fills your enemies with fear and doubt. Each affected creature takes a -1 penalty on attack rolls and a -1 penalty on saving throws against fear effects.

Bane counters and dispels bless.

Bless
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Type: Orison
Sphere: Any
Equivalent Spell Level: 1
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 50' radius
Target: The caster and allies within 50' radius centered on caster
Duration: 1 min/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No (harmless)

Bless fills your allies with courage. Affected targets gain a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and on saving throws against fear effects.

Bless counters and dispels bane.
Cause Fear
Enchantment [Fear, Mind-Affecting]
Type: Orison
Sphere: Fear, Madness
Equivalent Spell Level: 1
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25' + 5'/2 levels)
Target: One living creature with 5 or less HD
Duration: 1d4 rounds or 1 round; see text
Saving Throw: Will partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

The affected creature becomes frightened for 1d4 rounds. If the subject succeeds on a Will save, it is instead shaken for 1 round. Creatures with 6 or more Hit Dice are immune to this effect.

Cure Light Wounds
Evocation (Healing) [Positive]
Type: Orison
Sphere: Healing
Equivalent Spell Level: 1
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will half (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 1d6 points of damage, +1 point per caster level (maximum +5).

Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

Divine Favor
Evocation
Type: Orison
Sphere: War
Equivalent Spell Level: 1
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 minute
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Calling upon the strength and wisdom of a deity, you grant the target a +1 luck bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls for every three caster levels you have (at least +1, maximum +3).

Feral Power
Transmutation
Type Orison
Sphere Animal, Might, War
Equivalent Level 2
Range Touch
Target Creature Touched
Duration 1 min/lev
Save None (H)
SR No (H)
Touched creature gains a +2 enh bonus to Str, Dex, Con

Natural Insight
Transmutation
Type Orison
Sphere Animal, Knowledge, Madness
Equivalent Level 2
Range Touch
Target Creature Touched
Duration 1 min/lev
Save None (H)
SR No (H)
Touched creature gains a +2 enh bonus to Int, Wis, Cha

Obscuring Mist
Conjuration (Creation)
Type Orison
Sphere Air, Weather
Equivalent Level 1
Range 20'
Target 20' radius sphere centered on you
Duration 1 min/lev
Save None
SR No
Stationary vapor obscures sight past 5'. Creatures 5' have 20% concealment; further have 50% concealment.
Wind (11+ mph) clears in 4 rounds. 21+ mph clears in 1 round. [Fire] spells burn away fog in spell area.

Align Weapon
Transmutation [See Text]
Type Orison
Sphere Glory, Might, War
Equivalent Level 1
Range Touch
Target Weapon or 50 alike projectiles touched
Duration 1 min/lev
Save Will neg (HO)
SR Yes (HO)
Weapon touched becomes good, evil, chaos, or law aligned. Alignment must match or partially match caster.
Only may imbue one alignment.

Barkskin
Transmutation
Type Orison
Sphere Plant
Equivalent Level 2
Range Touch
Target Living creature touched
Duration 1 min/lev
Save None
SR Yes (H)
Touched creature gains a +2 enh bonus to natural AC, +1/3 CL (max +5).

Burning Hands
Evocation [Fire]
Type Orison
Sphere Fire, Sun
Equivalent Level 1
Range 15'
Target Cone-shaped burst
Duration Instantaneous
Save Ref half
SR Yes
Creatures in area take 1d4 fire/CL, max 5d4. Flammable items ignite.


Litanies
Equiv spell level: 3-4
Cure Light Wounds
Evocation (Healing) [Positive]
Type: Litany
Sphere: Any
Equivalent Spell Level: 1
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will half (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 1d6 points of damage, +1 point per caster level (maximum +5).

Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

Cure Moderate Wounds
Evocation (Healing) [Positive]
Type: Litany
Sphere: Healing
Equivalent Spell Level: 3
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Touched creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will half (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 3d6 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +5).

Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

Divine Power
Evocation
Type: Litany
Sphere: War
Equivalent Spell Level: 4
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Calling upon the divine power of your patron, you imbue you or your target with strength and skill in combat. Your base attack bonus becomes equal to your character level (which may give you additional attacks), you gain a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength, and you gain 1 temporary hit point per caster level.

Blindness/Deafness
Transmutation (Curse)
Type Litany
Sphere Darkness, Hex
Equivalent Level 3
Range Medium (100' +10'/lev)
Target One living creature
Duration Curse
Save Fortitude negates
SR Yes
Target is either blinded or deafened. Cannot blind a target already deafened, and vice versa.

Devotions
Equiv spell level: 5-6
Cure Moderate Wounds
Evocation (Healing) [Positive]
Type: Devotion
Sphere: Any
Equivalent Spell Level: 3
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Touched creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will half (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 3d6 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +5).

Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

Cure Serious Wounds
Evocation (Healing) [Positive]
Type: Devotion
Sphere: Healing
Equivalent Spell Level: 5
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Touched creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will half (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 5d6 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +10).

Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

Supplications
Equiv spell level: 7-8
Cure Serious Wounds
Evocation (Healing) [Positive]
Type: Supplication
Sphere: Any
Equivalent Spell Level: 5
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Touched creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will half (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 5d6 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +10).

Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

Cure Grievous Wounds
Evocation (Healing) [Positive]
Type: Supplication
Sphere: Healing
Equivalent Spell Level: 7
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Touched creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will half (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 7d6 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +15).

Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

Invocations
Equiv spell level: 9-10
Cure Grievous Wounds
Evocation (Healing) [Positive]
Type: Supplication
Sphere: Any
Equivalent Spell Level: 7
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Touched creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will half (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 7d6 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +15).

Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

Cure Critical Wounds
Evocation (Healing) [Positive]
Type: Invocation
Sphere: Healing
Equivalent Spell Level: 9
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Touched creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will half (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 9d6 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +20).

Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

Domains
Air
Intrinsic Power:
Domain Skill: Speak Language (Auran)
4th level power:
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power: Air Elemental Form
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment: Fly 20' (Poor)
11th level divine empowerment: Fly 30' (Average)
17th level divine empowerment: Fly 45' (Good)

Animal
Intrinsic Power: Speak with Animals
Domain Skill: Knowledge (Nature)
4th level power: Animal Companion
7th level power: Wild Shape (animals only), # day = cleric level, dur 10 min/lev
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment:
11th level divine empowerment:
17th level divine empowerment:

Cold
Intrinsic Power: At-will ranged touch attack that deals 1d4, +1d4 cold dam per 3 CL
Domain Skill:
4th level power: Resist Cold = 1/2 cleric levels
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment: inc die size for prayers that have [Cold] descriptor (typically d8)
11th level divine empowerment: inc die size for prayers that have [Cold] descriptor (typically d10)
17th level divine empowerment: inc die size for prayers that have [Cold] descriptor (typically d12)

Courage
Intrinsic Power: bonus on saves v. fear = 1/3 cleric level (min +1)
Domain Skill: Sense Motive
4th level power:
7th level power:
10th level power: Immune: Fear, bonus on saves v. fear for allies within 20' = 1/3 cleric level (min +1)
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment: When fighting foe with CR > your ECL, gain +2 atk/dam/dodge AC, SR 15 against that foe
11th level divine empowerment: When fighting foe with CR > your ECL, gain +4 atk/dam/dodge AC, SR 21 against that foe
17th level divine empowerment: When fighting foe with CR > your ECL, gain +6 atk/dam/dodge AC, SR 27 against that foe

Creation
Intrinsic Power: Can use scrolls and wands for item creation, Scribe Scroll
Domain Skill: Any one Craft
4th level power: Brew Potion
7th level power: Craft Wondrous Item
10th level power: Craft Magic Arms and Armor
13th level power: Craft Rod
16th level power: Craft Staff
20th level power: Forge Ring
5th level divine empowerment: Roll twice when making Craft checks and take better result
11th level divine empowerment: Roll three times when making Craft checks and take better result
17th level divine empowerment: Roll four times when making Craft checks and take better result

Darkness
Intrinsic Power: Darkvision 60' (or +30' to existing)
Domain Skill: Awareness
4th level power:
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment:
11th level divine empowerment:
17th level divine empowerment:

Death
Intrinsic Power: Reaper's Touch: touch dying creature, slay them instantly (Fort neg); also applies to SoD prayers
Domain Skill: Knowledge (The Planes)
4th level power: Reaper's Touch gives you temp HP
7th level power: Reaper's Touch gives you Str boost
10th level power: Reaper's Touch usable at 30' range
13th level power: Reaper's Touch gives you Con boost
16th level power: Reaper's Touch gives you CL boost
20th level power: Reaper's Touch becomes aura
5th level divine empowerment: CL +1 for prayers with [Death] descriptor
11th level divine empowerment: CL +2 for prayers with [Death] descriptor
17th level divine empowerment: CL +3 for prayers with [Death] descriptor

Earth
Intrinsic Power: Earthen Pillar (Under self only)
Domain Skill: Speak Language (Terran)
4th level power: Earthen Pillar (within 15')
7th level power: Tremorsense 5'/2 cleric levels
10th level power:
13th level power: Earth Elemental Form
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment: Natural Armor +1
11th level divine empowerment: Natural Armor +2
17th level divine empowerment: Natural Armor +4

Fate
Intrinsic Power: force opponent to reroll/day = Cha mod
Domain Skill: Cartomancy
4th level power: Personal Tarot, Hand Size = 1
7th level power:
10th level power: Hand Size = 2
13th level power:
16th level power: Hand Size = 3
20th level power: Hand Size = 4
5th level divine empowerment:
11th level divine empowerment:
17th level divine empowerment:

Fire
Intrinsic Power: At-will ranged touch attack that deals 1d4, +1d4 fire dam per 3 CL
Domain Skill: Speak Language (Ignan)
4th level power: Resist Fire = ½ cleric levels
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power: Fire Elemental Form
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment: inc die size for prayers that have [Fire] descriptor (typically d8)
11th level divine empowerment: inc die size for prayers that have [Fire] descriptor (typically d10)
17th level divine empowerment: inc die size for prayers that have [Fire] descriptor (typically d12)

Glory
Intrinsic Power: Prof: 1 martial weapon; 4 prowess/level
Domain Skill: Perform
4th level power: After slaying a foe, gain temp hp and stat boost for Cha rounds
7th level power: After slaying a foe, gain +atk/dam boost for Cha rounds
10th level power: After slaying a foe, gain DR/- for Cha rounds
13th level power: After slaying a foe, gain SR for Cha rounds
16th level power: After slaying a foe, gain haste for Cha rounds
20th level power: After slaying a foe, gain +CL for Cha rounds
5th level divine empowerment:
11th level divine empowerment:
17th level divine empowerment:

Healing
Intrinsic Power: Lay on Hands (cleric level x Cha pool, min 1)
Domain Skill: Heal
4th level power: Remove Disease with Lay on Hands
7th level power: Remove Curse with Lay on Hands
10th level power: Remove ability damage/drain with Lay on Hands
13th level power: Remove energy drain with Lay on Hands
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment: CL +1 for prayers of (Healing) subschool
11th level divine empowerment: CL +2 for prayers of (Healing) subschool
17th level divine empowerment: CL +3 for prayers of (Healing) subschool

Hex
Intrinsic Power: Curse foe/day = Cha mod
Domain Skill:
4th level power:
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment: CL +1 for prayers of (Curse) subschool
11th level divine empowerment: CL +2 for prayers of (Curse) subschool
17th level divine empowerment: CL +3 for prayers of (Curse) subschool

Knowledge
Intrinsic Power: Lore
Domain Skill: Any one Knowledge
4th level power: Bonus skill set
7th level power:
10th level power: Skill Mastery (any one Knowledge)
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment:
11th level divine empowerment:
17th level divine empowerment:

Life
Intrinsic Power: Turn Undead
Domain Skill: Heal
4th level power:
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment: inc die size for prayers that have [Positive] descriptor (typically d8)
11th level divine empowerment: inc die size for prayers that have [Positive] descriptor (typically d10)
17th level divine empowerment: inc die size for prayers that have [Positive] descriptor (typically d12)

Luck
Intrinsic Power: 1 luck reroll/day
Domain Skill:
4th level power:
7th level power:
10th level power: Rerolls/day = Cha mod
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment:
11th level divine empowerment:
17th level divine empowerment:

Madness
Intrinsic Power: bonus on saves v. Mind-Affecting = 1/3 Cleric level (min +1)
Domain Skill:
4th level power:
7th level power: Delirium Veil: Reflect failed Mind-Affecting effects back on caster
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment:
11th level divine empowerment:
17th level divine empowerment:

Magic
Intrinsic Power: Count as arcane caster (CL=Cleric level) for the purposes of using activation items
Domain Skill: Spellcraft
4th level power:
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment:
11th level divine empowerment:
17th level divine empowerment:

Might
Intrinsic Power: Str +4 Cha/Day, lasts rounds equal to cleric level
Domain Skill: Athletics
4th level power:
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment:
11th level divine empowerment:
17th level divine empowerment:

Moon
Intrinsic Power:
Domain Skill:
4th level power:
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment:
11th level divine empowerment:
17th level divine empowerment:

Plant
Intrinsic Power: Trackless Step
Domain Skill: Knowledge (Nature)
4th level power:
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment:
11th level divine empowerment:
17th level divine empowerment:

Protection
Intrinsic Power: Deflection AC +2 Cha/Day, lasts rounds equal to cleric level
Domain Skill:
4th level power:
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment:
11th level divine empowerment:
17th level divine empowerment:

Star
Intrinsic Power: Low-Light Vision
Domain Skill: Awareness
4th level power:
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment:
11th level divine empowerment:
17th level divine empowerment:

Storm
Intrinsic Power: At-will ranged touch attack that deals 1d4, +1d4 elec dam per 3 CL
Domain Skill:
4th level power: Resist Elec = ½ cleric levels
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment: inc die size for prayers that have [Electricity] descriptor (typically d8)
11th level divine empowerment: inc die size for prayers that have [Electricity] descriptor (typically d10)
17th level divine empowerment: inc die size for prayers that have [Electricity] descriptor (typically d12)

Sun
Intrinsic Power: At-will light ability
Domain Skill:
4th level power: Resist Fire = ½ cleric levels
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment: Activated corona (5') which deals fire damage and extra damage to undead
11th level divine empowerment: Corona inc to 10'
17th level divine empowerment: Corona inc to 20'

Time
Intrinsic Power: bonus on init checks = 1/3 cleric level
Domain Skill: Knowledge (History)
4th level power:
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment: CL +1 for the purposes of determining prayer duration
11th level divine empowerment: CL +2 for the purposes of determining prayer duration
17th level divine empowerment: CL +3 for the purposes of determining prayer duration

Travel
Intrinsic Power: Endurance bonus feat
Domain Skill: Survival
4th level power:
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment: All speeds +5'
11th level divine empowerment: All speeds +10'
17th level divine empowerment: All speeds +20'

Trickery
Intrinsic Power: 6+Int skills/level
Domain Skill: Legerdemain
4th level power: Gain Stealth as a class skill
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment:
11th level divine empowerment:
17th level divine empowerment:

Undeath
Intrinsic Power: Rebuke Undead
Domain Skill:
4th level power:
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment: inc die size for prayers that have [Negative] descriptor (typically d8)
11th level divine empowerment: inc die size for prayers that have [Negative] descriptor (typically d10)
17th level divine empowerment: inc die size for prayers that have [Negative] descriptor (typically d12)

War
Intrinsic Power: Prof: one martial weapon; prof: med armor, shields; ¾ BAB
Domain Skill: Intimidate
4th level power:
7th level power: Fighter Aura
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment: Atk/Dam +1 with melee weapons
11th level divine empowerment: Atk/Dam +3 with melee weapons
17th level divine empowerment: Atk/Dam +5 with melee weapons

Water
Intrinsic Power: breathe in water, gain swim speed = ½ land speed
Domain Skill: Speak Language (Aquan)
4th level power:
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power: Water Elemental Form
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment:
11th level divine empowerment:
17th level divine empowerment:

Wealth
Intrinsic Power: bonus on Appraise checks = 1/3 cleric level
Domain Skill: Appraise
4th level power:
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment:
11th level divine empowerment:
17th level divine empowerment:

Weather
Intrinsic Power: reduced effect from inclement weather, snow, etc
Domain Skill: Survival
4th level power:
7th level power:
10th level power:
13th level power:
16th level power:
20th level power:
5th level divine empowerment:
11th level divine empowerment:
17th level divine empowerment:

Fax Celestis
2009-08-01, 01:13 PM
Divine Oracle [Ritual]
Requirements: Knowledge (Religion) 6 ranks, ability to cast Orisons

Benefits: You gain the ability to perform several rituals. Each ritual requires a specific number of ranks in Knowledge (Religion) and takes 10 minutes to perform. The effects of a Divine Oracle ritual last for as long as each ritual states.

Augury (Knowledge (Religion) 6 ranks): By performing this ritual, you may attempt to discern the outcome of a future event. An augury can tell you whether a particular action will bring good or bad results for you in the immediate future.

The base chance for receiving a meaningful reply is 70% + 1% per rank in Knowledge (Religion), to a maximum of 90%; this roll is made secretly. A question may be so straightforward that a successful result is automatic, or so vague as to have no chance of success. If the augury succeeds, you get one of four results:

* Weal (if the action will probably bring good results).
* Woe (for bad results).
* Weal and woe (for both).
* Nothing (for actions that don't have especially good or bad results).

If the ritual fails, you get the “nothing” result. A cleric who gets the “nothing” result has no way to tell whether it was the consequence of a failed or successful augury.

The augury can see into the future only about half an hour, so anything that might happen after that does not affect the result. Thus, the result might not take into account the long-term consequences of a contemplated action. All auguries cast by the same person about the same topic use the same dice result as the first casting.

Divination (Knowledge (Religion) 10 ranks): Similar to augury but more powerful, a divination ritualcan provide you with a useful piece of advice in reply to a question concerning a specific goal, event, or activity that is to occur within one week. The advice can be as simple as a short phrase, or it might take the form of a cryptic rhyme or omen. If your party doesn't act on the information, the conditions may change so that the information is no longer useful. The base chance for a correct divination is 70% + 1% per rank you possess in Knowledge (Religion), to a maximum of 90%. If the dice roll fails, you know the ritual failed, unless specific magic yielding false information is at work.

As with augury, multiple divinations about the same topic by the same caster use the same dice result as the first divination spell and yield the same answer each time. In addition, you must be able to cast devotions to use this ritual.

Commune (Knowledge (Religion) 12 ranks): You contact your deity—or agents thereof—and ask questions that can be answered by a simple yes or no. You are allowed one such question per two ranks you possess in Knowledge (Religion). The answers given are correct within the limits of the entity's knowledge. “Unclear” is a legitimate answer, because powerful beings of the Outer Planes are not necessarily omniscient. In cases where a one-word answer would be misleading or contrary to the deity’s interests, a short phrase (five words or less) may be given as an answer instead.

The ritual, at best, provides information to aid character decisions. The entities contacted structure their answers to further their own purposes. If you lag, discuss the answers, or go off to do anything else, the ritual ends.

This ritual requires the expenditure of 100 XP. In addition, you must be able to cast supplications to use this ritual.

Last Rites [Ritual]
Requirements: Knowledge (Religion) 5 ranks, ability to cast Orisons

Benefits: You gain the ability to perform several rituals. Each ritual requires a specific number of ranks in Knowledge (Religion) and takes 10 minutes to perform. The effects of a Last Rites ritual last for as long as each ritual states.

Any potential participants require at least one rank in Knowledge (Religion) in order to be able to participate in a Last Rites ritual.

Gentle Repose (Knowledge (Religion) 5 ranks): By performing this ritual and touching a dead creature, you preserve the remains of the creature so that they do not decay. Doing so effectively extends the time limit on raising that creature from the dead (see the Raise Dead ritual below). Days spent under the influence of this spell don't count against the time limit. Additionally, this spell makes transporting a fallen comrade more pleasant.

Raise Dead (Knowledge (Religion) 12 ranks): By performing this ritual and touching a dead creature, you restore life to the creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than one day per rank you possess in Knowledge (Religion). In addition, the subject's soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject's soul is not willing to return, the ritual does not work.

Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The subject of the ritual loses one level (or 1 Hit Die) when it is raised, just as if it had lost a level or a Hit Die to an energy-draining creature. If the subject is 1st level, it loses 2 points of Constitution instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can't be raised). This level/HD loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means. A character who died with spells prepared has a 50% chance of losing any given spell upon being raised, in addition to losing spells for losing a level. A spellcasting creature that doesn't prepare spells (such as a sorcerer) has a 50% chance of losing any given unused spell slot as if it had been used to cast a spell, in addition to losing spell slots for losing a level.

A raised creature has a number of hit points equal to its current Hit Dice. Any ability scores damaged to 0 are raised to 1. Normal poison and normal disease are cured in the process of raising the subject, but magical diseases and curses are not undone. While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life. None of the dead creature's equipment or possessions are affected in any way by this ritual.

A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can't be raised by this ritual. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be raised. This ritual cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age.

This ritual requires diamonds worth a total of least 5,000 gp. In addition, you must be able to cast devotions to use this ritual.

Resurrection (Knowledge (Religion) 17 ranks): This ritual functions like the Raise Dead ritual above, except that you are able to restore life and complete strength to any deceased creature.

The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature's body still exists, it can be resurrected, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature's body at the time of death. (The remains of a disintegrated creature count as a small portion of its body.) The creature can have been dead no longer than 10 days per rank you possess in Knowledge (Religion).

Upon completion of the spell, the creature is immediately restored to full hit points, vigor, and health, with no loss of prepared spells. However, the subject loses one level, or 2 points of Constitution if the subject was 1st level. (If this reduction would bring its Con to 0 or lower, it can't be resurrected). This level loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means.

You can resurrect someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. You cannot resurrect someone who has died of old age. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be resurrected.

This ritual requires a sprinkle of holy water and diamonds worth a total of at least 10,000 gp. In addition, you must be able to cast supplications to use this ritual.

Draz74
2009-08-02, 12:23 AM
Well, at least it looks like Clerics will be very different mechanically depending on their Domain choices. Which is right on top of my list of Cleric preference priorities in homebrew, so, good.

(This is one of my very biggest problems with 4e. At least, pre-Divine Power.)

Morty
2009-08-02, 07:08 AM
Hm. A huge overhaul if the cleric, that much is obvious even if this unfinished state. I'm glad so see that there's no Turn Undead for all clerics - it's always seemed weird to me. Also, with at-will healing spells, regaining HP will certainly become easy.

Maerok
2009-08-02, 01:34 PM
I feel that a task like this is epic enough to earn oneself a divine rank.

Gorgondantess
2009-08-02, 01:38 PM
I feel that a task like this is epic enough to earn oneself a divine rank.

If that were so, Fax would already have several.:smallbiggrin:

Fax Celestis
2009-08-02, 10:11 PM
Notes for domains (for what I've got, anyway) added. Advice for inclusions into domain powers would be appreciated.

EDIT: Adding in some prayers too.

blackspeeker
2009-08-03, 12:04 AM
I'm not too good with homebrewing, but off the top of my head for the moon domain it would seem that the intrinsic power should be some sort of shifting. or that the divine empowerment should allow for more advanced/powerful shifting, or more shifting forms

That's all I have, and I'd like to say I like that this is going the route of a holy man rather than holy warrior, also do cleric's only get one domain or two like 3.5?

Fax Celestis
2009-08-03, 12:24 AM
I'm not too good with homebrewing, but off the top of my head for the moon domain it would seem that the intrinsic power should be some sort of shifting. or that the divine empowerment should allow for more advanced/powerful shifting, or more shifting forms

That's all I have, and I'd like to say I like that this is going the route of a holy man rather than holy warrior, also do cleric's only get one domain or two like 3.5?

One domain, with the option for a second domain with a feat. Paladins cover the holy warrior, I think, so clerics should cover holy scholar (like they always should have).

Fax Celestis
2009-08-03, 04:55 PM
Couple more prayers, formatting and game-language in the initial post.

Milskidasith
2009-08-03, 05:03 PM
I don't think anybody would ever use Cure Critical Wounds as a 9th level equivalent spell. Ever. The cure/inflict spells are obvious cleric spells, but you might want to have less of them spread out more often.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-03, 05:07 PM
I don't think anybody would ever use Cure Critical Wounds as a 9th level equivalent spell. Ever. The cure/inflict spells are obvious cleric spells, but you might want to have less of them spread out more often.
...they're at-will.

Milskidasith
2009-08-03, 05:32 PM
Ah. My mistake then; that changes everything.

thegurullamen
2009-08-03, 09:04 PM
...they're at-will.

You've got at-will healing? That seems like a lot of extra work when you tackle the CR issue since the game is balanced against four equal CR fights/day with finite resources.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-03, 09:36 PM
You've got at-will healing? That seems like a lot of extra work when you tackle the CR issue since the game is balanced against four equal CR fights/day with finite resources.

No one I have ever played with has followed that guideline--whether the DM tried or not, the players always managed to find a means to rest and recuperate after nearly every battle big enough to warrant resource expenditure. At-will healing is already in the game anyway (Eldritch Disciple, for instance, or the Tomb-Tainted Soul/Negative Energy Touch trick, or the Dragon Disciple's healing aura, or a Healing Belt, or even just a wand of cure light wounds or wand of lesser vigor)--all this does is expedite the process so that you don't have to carry around a sheaf of wands of CLW.

It also allows me to remove or alter some of the higher-level healing spells (notice the absence of heal) and also allows me to ignore that silly spontaneous healing class feature clerics used to have.

lesser_minion
2009-08-04, 07:18 AM
While I can accept the idea that unlimited healing is not exactly unprecedented, I still don't think I'm 100% comfortable with the idea. It feels more like a bug than something which should be made commonplace within the system.

Unfortunately I don't really have a great idea for a fix, although adding some kind of consequence - for the caster or the target - to magical healing could work.

Human Paragon 3
2009-08-04, 07:25 AM
Divine Power at will at level 4?

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-08-04, 08:20 AM
While I can accept the idea that unlimited healing is not exactly unprecedented, I still don't think I'm 100% comfortable with the idea. It feels more like a bug than something which should be made commonplace within the system.

If it's a bug, it's one the devs decided to run with, because the number of at-will healing effects steadily increased over time. By now there are tons of ways to heal up--the dragon shaman's healing aura and the Touch of Healing reserve feat are infinite healing up to half total HP are only two of the many effects in addition to the ones Fax mentioned--and as already stated, healing up to full after every fight has been trivial since core with CLW wands as long as you have cash and a few minutes.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-04, 11:48 AM
Divine Power at will at level 4?

If you do that, you're (a) a War Domain priest; and (b) have that as your only Litany.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-08-04, 12:53 PM
Not in games that include deadly side-effects from Positive Energy overdose :smalleek:

How, exactly? Positive energy only inflicts Death By Awesome when you go over your max HP or double max HP (interpretations conflict) and all the inifinite healing effects are limited to either half max HP or max HP.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-08-04, 01:32 PM
Actually, that's exactly how it works [link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3098490&postcount=77)]

I know that's how it works, and now I have no idea what your point was. I said infinite healing is trivial to gain; you said it isn't if you keep Positive Energy explosions in mind; I said it doesn't matter because none of the infinite healing methods trigger that; you agreed with me...? :smallconfused: When I said "How, exactly?" I didn't mean "how does it work" but rather "how does that have anything to do with infinite healing." What am I missing?


Simultaneously one of the meanest and most fun thing a DM can do to the players. While I may have drifted off-topic a little, I'm against at-will healing, if only from my own experiences. My groups tend to complete dungeons in a single (in-game) "work day" and we've always been fine. Exceptions have come about when characters got absolutely hammered in a battle, but for the most part, healing at-will would (for me) take away a bunch of the danger in the game.

Generally, if you have lower HP totals over the day, you run into a death spiral scenario unless (A) you improve your tactics for later combats, (B) save your best abilities for later in the day to end them quicker, (C) have easier combats, or combinations of the three. If you have full HP for every fight, the only thing that changes is that you can face more challenging combats without having a larger risk of dying as the day goes on. Nothing makes monsters easier with more healing except that a CR 8 monster at the beginning of the day is as likely to kill you in one hit as at the end of the day, rather than being more and more likely to drop you as the day progresses and you run out of healing.

Lappy9000
2009-08-04, 02:11 PM
I know that's how it works, and now I have no idea what your point was. I said infinite healing is trivial to gain; you said it isn't if you keep Positive Energy explosions in mind; I said it doesn't matter because none of the infinite healing methods trigger that; you agreed with me...? :smallconfused: When I said "How, exactly?" I didn't mean "how does it work" but rather "how does that have anything to do with infinite healing." What am I missing? That would be explained in the link.


Generally, if you have lower HP totals over the day, you run into a death spiral scenario unless (A) you improve your tactics for later combats, (B) save your best abilities for later in the day to end them quicker, (C) have easier combats, or combinations of the three. If you have full HP for every fight, the only thing that changes is that you can face more challenging combats without having a larger risk of dying as the day goes on. Nothing makes monsters easier with more healing except that a CR 8 monster at the beginning of the day is as likely to kill you in one hit as at the end of the day, rather than being more and more likely to drop you as the day progresses and you run out of healing...Thereby removing the aforementioned danger from the game. We tend to use options (A) and (B) quite often.

zugschef
2009-08-04, 02:53 PM
It also allows me to remove or alter some of the higher-level healing spells (notice the absence of heal) and also allows me to ignore that silly spontaneous healing class feature clerics used to have.
in combat healing is still a waste of time, however.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-04, 03:01 PM
in combat healing is still a waste of time, however.

Pretty much, yeah. This is intentional. Patching holes the size of grapefruits is not an easy task.


..Thereby removing the aforementioned danger from the game. We tend to use options (A) and (B) quite often.

Explain to me, Lappy, why the fight you had three hours ago should adjust the CR of your current battle? I'm not trying to be snide--I seriously want to know.

Morty
2009-08-04, 03:03 PM
I'm not sure about at-will healing, myself. On one hand, it's neat not to have to rest half a day to patch up wounds, but on the other hand, instant healing after combat takes some seriousness out of getting hurt.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-04, 03:36 PM
More dangerous equates a higher CR. CRs are supposed to be adjusted for outside conditions--environment, weather, terrain, or other advantages or disadvantages. "Not being at full health or full uses for per-day abilities" falls into that last category. The monsters (or opponents or what have you) have an advantage over the players in that they are at full health and full capacity for their uses/day abilities. This raises their CR, as it's a more difficult encounter.

cherez
2009-08-04, 03:42 PM
What exactly is the difference between Dvine Empowerment and Domain Powers? They both seem just to be abilities you gain at certain levels based on your domain.



Explain to me, Lappy, why the fight you had three hours ago should adjust the CR of your current battle? I'm not trying to be snide--I seriously want to know.

Well, I'm not Lappy, and I agree with you that attempts to restrict healing never really worked, but the idea is over a session your characters will all be expending resources and getting weaker. For casters this was mostly spell slots, but for martial classes this was primarily HP, since what abilities they have are generally at-will. This is a smaller problem in d20r since you gave a lot more classes at-will abilities, but while your sorcerer, cleric, and dreadnaught will be going full power all day, your enlightened devotee and (presumably) wizard will be getting a little weaker with each casting and not be useful to the party if they're not casting. (Unless you have a 4th level war domain cleric. :smallsmile:)

That said, I like your cleric. I think at-will healing is fine and that a wizard should be studying the battle carefully and savings spells for exactly when they will turn the tide. It's just more fun that way.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-04, 03:43 PM
The other issue I run into is that I'm giving at-will casting. In order to prevent at-will healing with that, I'd have to bind healing magic into a ritual feat or some other wonky mechanic that would utterly change the rest of the cleric.


What exactly is the difference between Dvine Empowerment and Domain Powers? They both seem just to be abilities you gain at certain levels based on your domain.Pretty much just a name.


This is a smaller problem in d20r since you gave a lot more classes at-will abilities, but while your sorcerer, cleric, and dreadnaught will be going full power all day, your enlightened devotee and (presumably) wizard will be getting a little weaker with each casting and not be useful to the party if they're not casting. (Unless you have a 4th level war domain cleric. :smallsmile:)
That's pretty much the idea: every class should have something they can do all day long.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-08-04, 04:29 PM
That would be explained in the link.

I'm seeing a nice homebrew, but still just homebrew which has no bearing on plain ol' healing in general or d20r in particular.


...Thereby removing the aforementioned danger from the game. We tend to use options (A) and (B) quite often.

As Fax pointed out, CR X doesn't mean "A good fight for a level X party," it means "a fight that should be challenging to a level X party taking terrain, health, and other modifiers into account." You get the same effect by throwing a level 5 party against a CR 5, a CR 5, a CR 5, and a CR 5 without infinite healing as you do throwing a level 5 party against a CR 5, a CR 5, a CR 6, and a CR 6 with infinite healing, give or take a CR or two. If you want more challenging fights throughout the day, make the fights more challenging, don't just assume they'll be harder because they've lost some health.

Dirdle
2009-08-04, 04:53 PM
If combat healing remains (next to) useless, and healing outside of combat is infinite, why bother with any healing better than CLW?

I like how the cleric now has a better spread of abilities, but at-will casting... I dislike it on a purely personal level. It's reasonable, but the "healbot-come-divine-warlock" feel of it just puts me off for no good reason. I think a lot of challenge, and hence Fun (http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/Fun), should come from prevailing in spite of limited resources. Just coming closer to dying, before winning and completely recovering (which is what a higher CR encounter seems likely to do) isn't as appealing to me.

But this is purely personal preference; the important issue here is balance, not what Some Guy on the internet likes (I can mod around it if I'm that bothered). And this cleric IS balanced, I'd say.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-08-04, 08:30 PM
I like how the cleric now has a better spread of abilities, but at-will casting... I dislike it on a purely personal level. It's reasonable, but the "healbot-come-divine-warlock" feel of it just puts me off for no good reason. I think a lot of challenge, and hence Fun (http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/Fun), should come from prevailing in spite of limited resources. Just coming closer to dying, before winning and completely recovering (which is what a higher CR encounter seems likely to do) isn't as appealing to me.

I think the issue people are having with unlimited healing is threefold.

1) They assume HP is the only limited resource. Aside from the obvious issue of spells, magic item charges, etc. which apply mostly to casters and UMD rogues, the martial types have various expendable resources. HP, of course, plus ammunition (arrows, alchemist's fire, etc.) and buff items (potions, oils, rings with uses/day), as well as the occasional miscellaneous item (belt of battle, shields with uses/day abilities, etc.). Unlimited healing only restores HP; all the cure spells in the world won't do anything about your boots of flying or potion of bull's strength.

2) Unlimited healing does not imply unlimited in-battle healing. Congratulations, you can cure 1d8+5 HP every round from now to the end of the Prime. Does that help you if you need 50 HP healed right now? Of course not. Outside of combat, there's no tension involved in healing; realistically, you're going to try to rest and/or avoid combat rather than saying "We're at 1/2 health! I don't think we can survive another fight! Isn't this fun!" (Maybe your group will, who knows, but that's a corner case.) In contrast, you're definitely going to be worrying about whether your character can take another hit from the vrock, or that the only thing separating your character from consciousness and death is a single d6--neither of which is removed by infinite healing.

3) Unlimited healing doesn't mean the end of a war of attrition. If you can heal up to full from 0 within a few rounds, it can; however, minor healing and/or healing that can't be used every round does not. To heal up to full, you need to stay in one place (dangerous) for as long as it takes to heal (time-wasting). There are many circumstances in which waiting hours or minutes (or, yes, even rounds) is infeasible because the BBEG would escape or whatever, and when those would be contrived there are many situations which make healing more difficult (random encounters being the prototypical example). Thus, if your group doesn't like healing to full and prefers a half-dozen fights every day, you can easily have a time restraint, be in dangerous territory, etc.; if it would prefer a single major battle, you can heal up to full before that and come in swinging. Limited healing restricts you to the first option, while unlimited healing allows for the second option without requiring it.

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 08:39 PM
My biggest issue with unlimited healing is simulationist; a level 1 cleric is a walking miracle. This makes for dire implications either way; if he's common, you're talking about a world with almost no disease or illness. Great, but hard to fit into a standard setting. If he's rare, doesn't the local Messiah on the block generally have more important things to do than risk his life fighting lizardmen 9 out of 10 times?

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-08-04, 09:27 PM
My biggest issue with unlimited healing is simulationist; a level 1 cleric is a walking miracle. This makes for dire implications either way; if he's common, you're talking about a world with almost no disease or illness. Great, but hard to fit into a standard setting. If he's rare, doesn't the local Messiah on the block generally have more important things to do than risk his life fighting lizardmen 9 out of 10 times?

Well, to be fair there are a ton of other spells that make the basic D&D setting of "medieval England clone...but with MAGIC!" break down. Heck, even cure minor wounds and create water once per day--even with only a single cleric per city--could change a city beyond recognition. A few gallons of perfectly clean water that is trivially obtained, plus the ability to seal a wound instantly without a chance of infection or botched surgery? When most commoners don't have enough HP to merit a CLW to begin with? Infinite healing is the least of your worries. :smallwink:

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 09:53 PM
Once a day is easier to handwave the impact away, though. Just, when you see 'at will'... attempting to put a clamp on my suspenders of disbelief before they break is impossible.

Mechanically, I see no issues with it, let that be said.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-04, 10:48 PM
Just because it's at-will doesn't mean clerics will be handing it out willy-nilly, or even for free.

lesser_minion
2009-08-05, 04:03 AM
I don't see much of a problem with allowing the cleric to heal constantly in terms of a "ZOMG BROKEN!" issue - my only real problem is the flavour. A standard action to heal someone doesn't strike me as being a meaningful intervention (and this is really an area where I think mechanics should tie into fluff).

Extending the casting time when being used to heal might work - for the extra rounds, the cleric is tending to the victim's injuries, applying salves/poultices/potions and so on. It has no effect on how often it can be used, but it makes the intervention seem more meaningful. You could also add on a note that the spell requires the use of herbs, balms, charms, poultices and similar items, which have negligible cost but which may not always be available or which may only be carried in certain quantities.

If worst comes to worst, occasionally slapping an individual requirement on certain spells would probably be reasonable, and it wouldn't mess around too greatly with what you already have.

Dirdle
2009-08-05, 05:10 AM
1) They assume HP is the only limited resource. Aside from the obvious issue of spells, magic item charges, etc. which apply mostly to casters and UMD rogues, the martial types have various expendable resources. HP, of course, plus ammunition (arrows, alchemist's fire, etc.) and buff items (potions, oils, rings with uses/day), as well as the occasional miscellaneous item (belt of battle, shields with uses/day abilities, etc.). Unlimited healing only restores HP; all the cure spells in the world won't do anything about your boots of flying or potion of bull's strength.

and as already stated, healing up to full after every fight has been trivial since core with CLW wands as long as you have cash and a few minutes.
Do you see why I'm disinclined to listen to the rest of what you say now? I'm not sure why you're trying to argue that people are wrong to dislike something, either. It's just an opinion that differs from your own.


Just because it's at-will doesn't mean clerics will be handing it out willy-nilly, or even for free.
I don't want to sound argumentative, but... in a free market, yes, they will. Or so cheaply as to be inconsequential. I can think of situations where the churches might deliberately exploit their monopoly to up the price, but that doesn't seem like it would last long - only until another clerical organisation with the money/power/guts to stand up to the hegemon comes along.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-08-05, 08:08 AM
Do you see why I'm disinclined to listen to the rest of what you say now? I'm not sure why you're trying to argue that people are wrong to dislike something, either. It's just an opinion that differs from your own.

Um...no, I'm not sure why you don't want to read the rest. I have pointed out several things: (A) Wands of CLW are cheap and are the best bang for your buck gold when healing, (B) wands of CLW have been in the game since the release of core, so easy healing has been in the game since the beginning, (C) HP isn't the only limited resource; (D) there are other ways to have challenging encounters besides fighting until your HP runs out, and (E) infinite healing in- and out of battle are entirely different beasts. All of this is true (CLW mathematically heals the most HP per gp, etc.) and none of it seems particularly offensive.

If it's the issue that I seem to think you are wrong for not liking infinite healing, that's not at all the case; nowhere did I say it was bad to want limited healing, only that the particular objections raised can be circumvented--and I hypothesized why one might not like limited healing, I didn't say those were reasons you were wrong. It's as if you said "I hate getting as many scoops of ice cream as I can eat, because I prefer only getting a double-scoop" and I said "If you can have as many as you want, you don't have to have more"; it's not bad to want a double-scoop, I just pointed out that you can achieve the same effect with infinite ice cream.

If it's the issue of tone...well, I'm not trying to be argumentative or condescending, if that's what you're thinking. Imagine I'm speaking in a dry, pedantic, boring tone and see if you get the same effect. :smallwink:


Once a day is easier to handwave the impact away, though. Just, when you see 'at will'... attempting to put a clamp on my suspenders of disbelief before they break is impossible.

Mechanically, I see no issues with it, let that be said.

Well, what in particular is it, flavor-wise, that makes it worse to have it at-will? I mean, a 1st-level core cleric with a 14 Wis and the Healing domain can heal 6 people per day; you'd have to have more than 6 people sustain life-threatening injuries every day to notice a difference. Combine that with the fact that most small towns will have adepts rather than clerics (who, I'd assume, aren't affected by the move to unlimited healing) and suspension of disbelief shouldn't be more of a problem than normal.

(Since Dirdle seemed to misinterpret my tone, let me make clear my intentions: I honestly want to know what is it about the magic words "at will" that make people dislike it, when it makes little difference in play?)


I don't see much of a problem with allowing the cleric to heal constantly in terms of a "ZOMG BROKEN!" issue - my only real problem is the flavour. A standard action to heal someone doesn't strike me as being a meaningful intervention (and this is really an area where I think mechanics should tie into fluff).

Extending the casting time when being used to heal might work - for the extra rounds, the cleric is tending to the victim's injuries, applying salves/poultices/potions and so on. It has no effect on how often it can be used, but it makes the intervention seem more meaningful. You could also add on a note that the spell requires the use of herbs, balms, charms, poultices and similar items, which have negligible cost but which may not always be available or which may only be carried in certain quantities.

I've always played healing with multiple CLW spells to be one long ritual--if you need to cast 10 of them to heal someone, the cleric stands there praying and laying on hands for a full minute, not saying "Please Pelor heal this man's wounds." *heal* "Please Pelor heal this man's wounds." *heal* "Please Pelor heal this man's wounds." *heal* "Please Pelor heal this man's wounds." *heal* "Please Pelor heal this man's wounds." *heal* for a minute. It makes suspension of disbelief a bit easier.

Dirdle
2009-08-05, 10:26 AM
I honestly want to know what is it about the magic words "at will" that make people dislike it, when it makes little difference in play?
Well, I'll try and answer as to why I don't like at-will healing. I suppose I might just be arrogantly assuming that the capacity to do something arbitrarily many times removes the pressure to do it well; that is, makes the game easier, as there is no "use it now, or save it just in case?" dilemma. Other than that, I have no even semi-logical reasons, just "eh, not my kinda thing."

Daracaex
2009-08-05, 11:15 AM
I honestly want to know what is it about the magic words "at will" that make people dislike it, when it makes little difference in play?

But doesn't it make a huge difference in play? The party will start every encounter with full HP. Only the PCs who have abilities limited in uses per day will ever be disadvantaged. Fourth Edition at least limits this by making the Cleric's at-will healing spell use up a resource on the target's side of the equation in the form of a healing surge. Without any limit, much of the danger disappears.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-05, 11:29 AM
But doesn't it make a huge difference in play? The party will start every encounter with full HP. Only the PCs who have abilities limited in uses per day will ever be disadvantaged. Fourth Edition at least limits this by making the Cleric's at-will healing spell use up a resource on the target's side of the equation in the form of a healing surge. Without any limit, much of the danger disappears.

Frankly, no, it doesn't, as the potential to start every fight at full HP is already there. Also, please read my justifications here.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-08-05, 11:33 AM
But doesn't it make a huge difference in play? The party will start every encounter with full HP. Only the PCs who have abilities limited in uses per day will ever be disadvantaged. Fourth Edition at least limits this by making the Cleric's at-will healing spell use up a resource on the target's side of the equation in the form of a healing surge. Without any limit, much of the danger disappears.

A quick comment for everyone, in the interests of allowing Fax to progress with his good ideas:

Fax is redesigning all the classes. This is important. At-Will healing is now part of his design, and thus part of the encounter planning that DMs running his new classes will have to do. These aren't, if I remember correctly, supposed to play alongside existing classes, and therefore (I suspect) would require changes to existing campaign worlds to account for the differences. I say we just accept that and look at what else he's offering us here, as we're arguing, effectively, cross system (3.5 and d20 Rebirth being similar, but very different). It seems pointless to me.

Plus, if it's that important to you, it's easy to homebrew a system to restrain healing. :smallbiggrin:

Daracaex
2009-08-05, 12:34 PM
Yeah, I saw that. But magic items can at least be controlled. Not every world has the Ye Olde Magik Shoppe for the players to stock up on way too many wands than they need. I'm just kind of concerned that having this in the d20r will make the system ill-suited for more gritty or survival-themed games. Yeah, it's easily house ruled, I guess, but I've heard time and time again from so many people: "Just because it can be houseruled, doesn't make it not broken."

I really don't mean to be argumentative about this. I've loved everything I've seen come out of d20r and your homebrew in general. I'm just voicing a concern that might limit DM options in campaigns using d20r without modifying it first.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-05, 02:02 PM
Modified healing spells per discussion. In short, Healing domain gets access one "tier" earlier.

afroakuma
2009-08-06, 09:08 PM
I'll tell you right now, Fax, I do not think the Fate domain is going in the right direction. I don't think that clerics should become amateur cartomancers. Might be an isolated opinion, but I think a new idea is needed there. 2 cents deposited.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-06, 09:38 PM
I'll tell you right now, Fax, I do not think the Fate domain is going in the right direction. I don't think that clerics should become amateur cartomancers. Might be an isolated opinion, but I think a new idea is needed there. 2 cents deposited.

Really? I was thinking it was pretty much dead on. What would you do instead?

afroakuma
2009-08-06, 09:43 PM
Really? I was thinking it was pretty much dead on. What would you do instead?

Keep cards to the cartomancer.

For a Fate domain? The ability to avert or force a potential fate; to cause or deflect extreme happenings, to know the future and whether or not it is mutable. If the Luck domain were Good and the Curse domain Evil, Fate should be the patient, potent Neutral counterpart.

The intrinsic power is spot-on, but taking on the main gimmick of an esoteric class dims the image of that class and muddies the waters of the cleric. Again, all of this is very IMHO, but it just stood out so sharply to me that I felt I had to comment.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-08-06, 09:59 PM
Keep cards to the cartomancer.

Agreed. One solution might be to merge the Luck and Fate domains; doing that would remove the cartomantic associations, and the two both tend to deal with manipulating die rolls and such.

DragoonWraith
2009-08-06, 10:06 PM
Alternatively, Luck could be something that increases the variability of play, increasing the effect of die rolls (switch a d10 to a d20-5, perhaps?), while Fate does the opposite, decreasing the variability of spells (switch a d20 with a d10+7, maybe?).

Lappy9000
2009-08-06, 10:16 PM
Alternatively, Luck could be something that increases the variability of play, increasing the effect of die rolls (switch a d10 to a d20-5, perhaps?), while Fate does the opposite, decreasing the variability of spells (switch a d20 with a d10+7, maybe?).I had a prestige class that could make dice rolls more "lawful" as it were. The table looked a bit like this:

Table: Dice Progression
{table=head]Old Dice|New Dice
d4|1d2+2
d6|1d4+2
d8|1d4+4
d10|1d6+4
d12|1d6+6[/table]

If something like this is implemented, feel free to take and tweak as needed.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-08-06, 10:20 PM
Alternatively, Luck could be something that increases the variability of play, increasing the effect of die rolls (switch a d10 to a d20-5, perhaps?), while Fate does the opposite, decreasing the variability of spells (switch a d20 with a d10+7, maybe?).

Now that's an interesting take. I like Lappy's table for reducing variability, and Fate could get other things like the skill check that treats a 1 as a 20, abilities to take 10, etc. while Luck has rerolls, exploding dice, and so on.

Gralamin
2009-08-06, 10:24 PM
Looks like a good start to me. I'll give some proper critique in a few days time.

DragoonWraith
2009-08-06, 11:41 PM
If you go with the more/less random idea, Luck might be better called Chance.

I like the idea of Luck/Chance getting a higher average, but being subject to possibly being lower than you could have gotten otherwise, but also being able to get higher than you otherwise could have, while Fate is guaranteed to not get as low as you might have otherwise, but also not capable of getting quite as high. That's why I recommended the d20-5 and the d10+7 replacements. Of course, how often these things are available would change things. I was actually considering these things as "always on", and affecting all rolls - for a character that really lives out these concepts.

aaron_the_cow
2009-09-01, 09:59 PM
How about for one of the Storm domain powers if you are in a storm, you can be struck by lightning and disapear, and then the next round appear anywear that the storm is in a bolt of lightning?

Im bad with balance so idk what level this would be