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View Full Version : Couple of questions regarding magical items



vampire2948
2009-08-01, 01:56 PM
Hello fellow playgroundites,


I'm playing in a pirate campaign, as an arcane spellcaster. We have a pirate ship, and I wish to create magical items to aid in the defense of said ship.

I have not used a character to create magical items in the past, and flicking through the books I own has not answered a few of my questions. It would be helpful if some of you, being far well versed in the ways of D&D than I, would answer a few of these questions. Thank you in advance.


Firstly, I need to find a way to reduce, or remove entirely, the XP cost of the items. I'd like to stay close to, or the same level as the others in my campaign, and am not sure whether or not my DM is doing it by xp, or by 'you guys level up now, yay' method. Being one level behind the rest is acceptable, but i'd like to find a way to reduce / remove it if that is possible. Preferably without taking levels in Artificier / similar.

Secondly, I need to find a way to make magical items that activate and aim themselves. The plan for one of the items is to make some form of magical gun turret which will aim and fire itself at targets which are hostile to the caster (me), or by being activated by a command word possibly.

Note - My character has a spellbook, and a lot of spells, I can also research new spells... but doing that will be difficult, since our ship is frequented by random encounters. My character does not need to sleep, however, which potentially makes this a little easier.

Thirdly, any ideas for items that could be utilized in the defense of a pirate ship? All ideas are welcome. I am currently caster level 6th, following the Wizard spells by level progression.


Thank you for your time,

vampire2948,

Cespenar
2009-08-01, 02:21 PM
To answer the third part in the most simplistic way:

Use weather-affiliated spells. Gust of Wind for the sails, Wind Wall for stopping incoming arrows, Obscuring Mist, Fog Cloud, Solid Fog for hiding your ship or blinding other ships, or even Water Breathing to employ axe-wielding seamen who undermine and sink ships from underwater.

Jergmo
2009-08-01, 02:36 PM
Also, there're the Repair spells, which progress like cure wounds, but is for repairing constructs/items/etc. A few wands of Repair Light Damage would be invaluable.

Yora
2009-08-01, 02:40 PM
1. Only your gm can help with that. There's no rule that lets you get out of paying the xp cost. And if there is one in an optional book, your gm has to allow that. But he can also say, that you simply don't have to pay xp.

2. You'd probably have to create either customized mini golems, or use magical traps. Either way, you would have to find a way to tell them at which objects in range NOT to shot.

ColdSepp
2009-08-01, 02:52 PM
If you want to get cheesy, you can use Thought Bottle (Complete Arcane, 20k GP) before crafting. Basically, you store your XP in it, which costs you 500xp, then craft. When you are done crafting, you use the Thought Bottle to restore your XP to where it was at the time of the original storing (I.E. before crafting)

This is not what it was meant to do, but by the rules it works.

Eberron Campaign Setting has Expert, Legendary, and Extraordinary Artisan feats, which reduce Time, XP, and Gold costs by 25% each.

Jergmo
2009-08-01, 02:53 PM
2. You'd probably have to create either customized mini golems, or use magical traps. Either way, you would have to find a way to tell them at which objects in range NOT to shot.

Or skeletal crewmen if the pirates don't frown upon necromancy!

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-08-01, 02:56 PM
Pick up Stormwrack (fighting at sea) and the Arms and Equipment Guide and the guide for building stronghold, LOTS of ideas there. Take a visit ti your friendly neighborhhod games shop and peruse the books. Then talk to your dm about how to incorporate the ideas before you buy the books.

Seonor
2009-08-01, 04:12 PM
This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117316) and this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6035103) thread should be helpfull for optimizing your ship, and for your turret look at the spell turret.

AslanCross
2009-08-01, 05:10 PM
While the XP cost for creating items looks scary, frankly they are usually quite worth it and are usually gained back within the space of a single encounter.

The above-mentioned Craft feats from the Eberron Campaign Setting will help, though.

ColdSepp
2009-08-01, 05:55 PM
While the XP cost for creating items looks scary, frankly they are usually quite worth it and are usually gained back within the space of a single encounter.


Only if the DM gives out XP. The problem here is that the DM seems to just say "You level up now." so if you fall behind due to crafting, you won't catch up.

Devils_Advocate
2009-08-01, 10:40 PM
XP are, basically, worth 5 gp apiece. That's how much an XP cost raises the cost of a spellcasting, scroll, etc. So an obvious alternative to XP costs is requiring materials costing 5 times as much in gp. For magic item creation, it works out to the crafter being able to make the item for 70% of list price. Ask your DM if this would be acceptable.

For magical gun turrets, you probably want intelligent magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm) traps (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#magicTraps). Or, basically, items that fire off spells for you, discriminatingly firing them only at what you want them to, while taking up no body slot, requiring no actions to activate, and consuming no charges.

What's a fair price for such an item? I'd say... Spell level × caster level × 4,000 gp. If the spell had a material component, add 100 × the cost of the material component. If the spell has an XP component, add 500 gp per XP.

There are further costs to give the turret mental ability scores, senses, the ability to communicate, lesser powers, and greater powers. How much this costs depends on what you give it. See the section on intelligent magic items (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm).

All of this is the list price, by the way. Determine the price to create as normal. (70%, if you talked your DM into that.)

It takes a spell turret its spell's casting time to fire. Treat its Initiative modifier as -5. (Sorry, but it doesn't have any actual Dexterity.) Crafting a spell turret requires the Craft Wand and Craft Staff feats and a caster level of 15th or higher. A spell turret inherits it creator's alignment, as well as his general outlook, personality, and goals.

Sound good?

Edit: Could someone else work out what size and shape these things should be, and what hardness and hit points they should have? Maybe they could be made extra durable by adding adamantine casing or something?

I know that one's saving throws are 2 + one-half caster level (round down), plus Wisdom bonus on Will saves.

Cieyrin
2009-08-01, 10:54 PM
There's intelligent trap rules in Dungeonscape, IIRC, which'll do what you want. I believe they had a spell turret as their example for one, too. Though it is indeed true that you need to be CL 15 to make intelligent magic items, so there's no getting around that, at least not as a 6th level caster. You'll have to be dependent on competent crewmen manning your spell cannons till you can get that high.

As was previously mentioned, the Eberron Campaign Setting has feats to reduce XP, Gold and Time, though I could swear there was another PRC that you could put on that to make it even better. I think it was the Maester from Complete Arcane but I could be wrong on that front. The only other way to efficiently magic manufacture is via Artificer and his crafting pool, which I'm not aware of any other source providing a similar mechanic for.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

Devils_Advocate
2009-08-02, 12:47 AM
Aw, ass, I missed the character's level in the first post.

Honestly, I have to wonder how feasible setting up meaningful automated magical defenses is with 6th level characters' resources.

Interesting to hear that I was apparently reinventing the wheel. Good to know that there's an official answer already. Maybe I'll take a look at Dugeonscape.

AslanCross
2009-08-02, 01:11 AM
Only if the DM gives out XP. The problem here is that the DM seems to just say "You level up now." so if you fall behind due to crafting, you won't catch up.

He said he isn't sure, so best idea at this point would be to ask, I guess. My assumption was that the DM does give out XP.

Talic
2009-08-02, 02:06 AM
First: Without Artificer, there's precious little to eliminate XP costs, though there are feats to reduce it somewhat.

Second: Enchantments are much better suited to defense and offense, rather than self firing. Self firing weapons will almost always attack with horrible penalties. Items that are fired, however...

Third: Many spells are useful.

Fly + Invisibility: You're a scout. At distances over 30 feet, they can't spot you.

At CL 5? Fire off a Fireball at 600 feet (2 football fields away), aimed at sails.

Summon Monster nets you Water Elementals, which are highly effective.

Water Breathing and Freedom of Movement combined with Sonic Orbs/other sound based spells.

Other weather based spells.

Many illusion spells can be creatively used. Make a second boat. Make an illusion of an extra deck of gun ports on the side of your boat. Be creative.

After all, a 22 gun caravel can be made to look like a 44 gun warship, if that cargo deck seems to be a gun deck. (Incidentally, similar practices were actually used throughout history, lending rise to the naval term, "Gundecking", as a term meaning falsifying).

PId6
2009-08-02, 02:24 AM
If you want to get cheesy, you can use Thought Bottle (Complete Arcane, 20k GP) before crafting. Basically, you store your XP in it, which costs you 500xp, then craft. When you are done crafting, you use the Thought Bottle to restore your XP to where it was at the time of the original storing (I.E. before crafting)

This is not what it was meant to do, but by the rules it works.
What exactly was Thought Bottle meant to do? Almost every possible use for it I can think of seems fairly broken (crafting, Wish or other spellcasting, epic spells), with the possible exception of keeping you from losing a level after death.

ColdSepp
2009-08-02, 03:48 AM
What exactly was Thought Bottle meant to do? Almost every possible use for it I can think of seems fairly broken (crafting, Wish or other spellcasting, epic spells), with the possible exception of keeping you from losing a level after death.

I think that is it's intended use. Not really sure, though.

vampire2948
2009-08-02, 06:21 AM
Thank you everyone for your detailed replies! I shall look into the supplements that you have suggested.

The idea was not for me to make them at this level, but perhaps in three or four. We all leveled up last night.

I've an Artificier friend in the crew, and the DM says we can ignore XP costs so long as we don't go too crazy, which is good.
I'm going to help the Artificier make some of those homonculus pet things, to speed up crafting.

I love the illusory decks idea! I shall certainly try to cause that in the game.


Thank you all again,

Vampire2948,

Dingle
2009-08-02, 06:39 AM
You might be able to use illusions both ways, master and commander style.
Illusry holes in your rigging and rudder and illusory higher water to simulate gold to make them try to board.

vampire2948
2009-08-02, 06:51 AM
Hmm, interesting. I shall consider those, and potential other applications.

An idea came to me whilst I was showering, and I feel the need to create items capable of flying around my main ship, and projecting illusory ships of a similar design. Perhaps even firing magic missiles, or fireballs, with more illusions to make them appear as cannon balls.

That would likely be expensive, and require intelligent items. But... I think I will attempt to work out the cost.

elonin
2009-08-02, 07:09 AM
If you think it is such a problem, perhaps you should ask your dm about using a craft pool from UA.