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Xey42
2009-08-01, 05:44 PM
Has anyone ever tried playing a monstrous character class, with spell casting, through a broken down progression as presented in savage species?

For example, a black ethergaunt from fiend folio has 16hd and a +4 LA, and casts as a 17th level wizard.

Breakdown the monster into 20 levels, buyoff the one LA when you can, and add a level of wizard (monster specifically says levels of wizard stacks with their casting progression), and you could cast as a 18th level wizard, have 16 aberration hd, 1 level of wizard, and a few spiffy abilities thrown in as well as nice stat advancement.

This wouldn't be the best example, but it was the easiest to find (it has problems making itself relevant to the material plane til a way to regularly gain plane shift becomes available)

Opinions on how this would work out? Words from somebody thats tried it in some form?

Kylarra
2009-08-01, 06:09 PM
LA buyoff doesn't work that way. :p



Once the total of a character's class levels (not including any Hit Dice from his creature type or his level adjustment) reaches three times his level adjustment, his level adjustment is eligible to be decreased by 1.

So at ECL 32 (16 HD+4 LA + 12 levels of whatever) you'd be eligible to go down to LA 3. (And then 9 levels later and 6 and 3) So you'd need a total of 30 class levels before your LA would be bought off.

Xey42
2009-08-01, 06:14 PM
*shrug* then forget the buyoff

Kylarra
2009-08-01, 06:18 PM
On topic I suppose, I've found monstrous chars very hit or miss. It can be fun, but usually the novelty of it wears off rather quickly and then there's all the talking to NPCs and explaining that has to be done constantly...

Irreverent Fool
2009-08-02, 05:04 AM
If you're using a Savage Species progression, you do not have a level adjustment. Instead, you have levels at which you do not gain HD, though you still gain a slight increase to your racial powers until they are at 'full strength' when you finish the savage progression. The Medusa in Savage Species is a decent example, especially in regard to its gaze attack progression which can be mimicked for the ethergaunt's Stupefying Gaze (once per day on a single target at first, then growing into its full power as it approaches the end of the progression).

Since a black ethergaunt is an ECL20 creature (16HD and +4 LA), its progression will take up its entire 20 levels. Dead spell levels should take up every 1st level of an even distribution of levels among the progression. In this case, every first of each 6-level subset. Dead HD levels should be evenly spaced as well. The first dead HD level is shifted down to 2nd level since you can't have 0HD. You could instead choose to start with 1/2d8 and advance it to a full 1d8 at 2nd level.

{table]Level|HD|Caster Level
1|1d8|--
2|1d8|+1 Level (CL1)
3|2d8|+1 Level (CL2)
4|3d8|+1 Level (CL3)
5|4d8|+1 Level (CL4)
6|4d8|+1 Level (CL5)
7|5d8|+1 Level (CL6)
8|6d8|--
9|7d8|+1 Level (CL7)
10|8d8|+1 Level (CL8)
11|8d8|+1 Level (CL9)
12|9d8|+1 Level (CL10)
13|10d8|+1 Level (CL11)
14|11d8|+1 Level (CL12)
15|12d8|--
16|12d8|+1 Level (CL13)
17|13d8|+1 Level (CL14)
18|14d8|+1 Level (CL15)
19|15d8|+1 Level (CL16)
20|16d8|+1 Level (CL17)[/table]

I imagine that you could build a progression that assumed/required you to buyoff an LA at the appropriate level, but that would mean you wouldn't have the option not to at that level because otherwise you would be at slightly higher power per XP than the progression assumes. Basically one of your levels would cost more XP. However...


Once the total of a character's class levels (not including any Hit Dice from his creature type or his level adjustment) reaches three times his level adjustment, his level adjustment is eligible to be decreased by 1.

In this case (the black ethergaunt) the creature does not have any class levels. Instead it has Aberration HD and therefore does not qualify for access to LA buyoff until it has take 12 class levels, at which point it would be level 32.

Edit: This last bit was posted above. I missed it somehow.

Edit2: As for the planeshift issue, I would assume that a level 1 ethergaunt had been planeshifted by another and simply did not have access to Material Jaunt until the same time it got access to 7th-level spells. The ability to be ethereal constantly is both too powerful and too troublesome at lower levels.

obnoxious
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Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-08-02, 05:18 AM
I'm pretty sure that given the nature and hierarchy of that race, you would have to start out as a Red Ethergaunt, then get promoted to White, and eventually Black once you reach a high enough ECL. Even then the character probably wouldn't be eligible for such a promotion without extremely heavy RP achievements within their society. At least that's how I would handle it as a DM, given the nature of that particular race.

Irreverent Fool
2009-08-02, 05:26 AM
I'm pretty sure that given the nature and hierarchy of that race, you would have to start out as a Red Ethergaunt, then get promoted to White, and eventually Black once you reach a high enough ECL. Even then the character probably wouldn't be eligible for such a promotion without extremely heavy RP achievements within their society. At least that's how I would handle it as a DM, given the nature of that particular race.

They're described as a caste-based race. Ethergaunts are born/created into a certain role, much like ants. I don't think they actually have social mobility. Moreover, changing creature types, racial HD, abilities and level adjustments while advancing in level seems like a lot of painful bookwork.

Edit: Actually it says specifically in the Fiend Folio that

The khen-zai long ago eliminated irrational ambition by ensuring that no ethergaunt can ever achieve a greater status.

obnoxious
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Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-08-02, 06:19 AM
Right, I was thinking for some reason that they were reborn into a higher caste, but as it turns out their accomplishments determine what rank their next of kin will be assigned. Still, I doubt one of their society's elite would betray their culture at such a young age/ecl, or even be capable of anything of the sort when their overseers are capable of casting 9th level spells. It likely wouldn't even be possible for one to be kidnapped away, considering their magical capabilities.

Irreverent Fool
2009-08-04, 04:43 PM
Right, I was thinking for some reason that they were reborn into a higher caste, but as it turns out their accomplishments determine what rank their next of kin will be assigned. Still, I doubt one of their society's elite would betray their culture at such a young age/ecl, or even be capable of anything of the sort when their overseers are capable of casting 9th level spells. It likely wouldn't even be possible for one to be kidnapped away, considering their magical capabilities.

The result of the betrayal and escape to the material plane as well as covering its tracks could have somehow caused a severe power loss.

It's D&D. Logic flew out the window a long time ago. :smallbiggrin:

obnoxious
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Xey42
2009-08-04, 07:46 PM
my thought process on how it came to be would be a child ethergaunt being sent to the material plane because his parents came up with some off the wall theory that got them and there followers killed.. i dunno, something crazy like 'maybe genocides a bit strong for the material plane.. how bout just mass enslavement?'. or maybe.. just.. being in the material plane is difficult for him to get used to *shrug*

somehow i dont think a backstory is all that hard to come by, as the fool said, in dnd :P

how would an ethergaunt stack up compared to other classes, tier wise if it were to enter play? id imagine a weak to mid range tier 1.. unoptimized wizard/gish level at the end. tier 2 most of the way up?