What do you think of "Kissing Cousins"?

[Kobold_Love]

It turns out there have two separate cousin marriages in my family. One was two of my grandmother's cousins (who were cousins themselves). Another is of a younger (I believe 40ss now) set of family members, though I am not sure how they relate to me (Hispanic family, so there are too many relatives to keep track off. :smallconfused:).

To boot, I am thinking there might be some kind of attraction between me and my little cousin. Everyone has always said we are very alike, and in truth she is the only one I ever related to of my generation within the family (largely due to me being the first of my family to be born an American, and them not moving over here until four years ago).

So anyway, we have been getting closer lately, and yesterday my aunt kept giving me these very suggestive looks when me and my cousin interacted (especially when she gets poutful/annoyed, which for her means she cares...well, usually). At one point she even gave me a very clear and big wink when me and my cousin were discussing/slightly arguing something (again, she is very reclusive, yet I have been told by my aunt that I am one of the few people she likes to talk to).

Anyway, kinda a rant there. What are your thoughts on this subject?


p.s. Oh, and a few months back my aunt suggested with a big suspicious smile that I take my little cousin to see a new movie she wanted to see.

[Player_Zero]

I see a pattern in your threads.

[Joran]

Well, there's a movie about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk1JAMeDDNQ

Anyway, my grandparents were first cousins and I turned out fine... I think. I think in general, it's frowned upon here in the States, but there's nothing wrong with it genetically wise.

[Yarram]

I dunno... Feels a bit like incest to me.:smallfrown:

Even if it's not physical incest it would still be emotional incest.

[ghost_warlock]

I like this thread...if soley because of the stumble-upon factor of searching for Genetic Relatedness and Kin Selection on Google. It appears the AnandTech forums are a funny place. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: On-Topic: kissing/marrying cousins is something that seems to have gone in and out of style over time and is highly dependent upon culture/sub-culture. It would be frowned upon in my family, but it sounds like at least your aunt is encouraging it. Accumulation of recessive alleles in your potential offspring is really the only discouraging factor, otherwise, which is far less of an issue with cousins than with, say, siblings.

For the record, Charles Darwin married his cousin, Emma Wedgewood, and they had several children together, many of whom went on to have quite distinguished carreers. Well, except for the two that died in childhood... Anyway, regarding Darwin's choice, I can't really say I blame him (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Emma_Darwin.jpg)! :smallbiggrin:

Also, reference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coupled_cousins).

[Jimorian]

A breakdown of U.S. state laws regarding first cousin marriages: http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=4266

If there's genetic predisposition to certain diseases in the family, it increases the risk, but otherwise isn't much of a problem. It's still somewhat of a cultural taboo in the U.S., so it would be interesting to hear from playgrounders elsewhere about attitudes where they live.

[Felixaar]

I personally don't think that people should be in relationships with eachother if they already have a pre-exisiting blood tie, entirely because that sort of thing can lead to genetic disorders in children.

One of the rules I try to live by is "Do whatever you feel like as long as you're not hurting anyone - but if you are, you'd better have a damn good reason." So if you didn't plan on having children, or you had a foolproof reason to believe it wouldn't be an issue, then whatever you want to do, go for it.

Be careful, of course, if you decide to talk to your cousin about it you could freak her out if theres misinterpretation. And if you two decide to do a trial or something, you probably want to keep it quiet to be on the safe side - after all, if the moral/ethical dillemma becomes an issue later on then sort it out later on, you may not even have to deal with it if the relation fails early on.

Wow, cheery mood there. Best of luck, budski.

[Fri]

Perfectly normal for me, as it's common in my culture and my country. Never saw the ickyness of cousins marriage myself.

[Nameless]

I don’t really see a problem with incest. I do know that if they then go and have children it can lead to some problems, but if people in this kind of relationship stay away from that, I really don’t see what the big deal is. No one has the right to judge you for it.

[d13]

The main historic figure here in Uruguay, married his own cousin... I think it is illegal now, don't know... :smallconfused:

[Anuan]

I've read in places (can't remember where off the top of my head) that first-cousins are no more likely to produce genetic defects than two random people on the street. Unless it's siblings or carried on for a few generations, the risk of problems are no higher.

[Nameless]

I’m actually surprised that even today, it’s against the law in many places.

[Fri]

Actually, it got something to do with the Westermarck Effect. You know, it's the only reason why we don't think our siblings as 'love interest'

Basically, it's some sort of psychologica imprinting: when two people live in close domestic proximity during the first few years in the life of either one, both are desensitized to later close sexual attraction. It protect mankind from the genetic defect of inbreeding.

If you got a sibling, but don't live with him/her in the frst few years of your life, you might get attracted to him/her later.

I guess it's the same with kissing cousin. I guess in culture where extended family lives in close proximity, kissing cousins were thought as taboo.

I'm not an anthropologist though :smalltongue:

[Nameless]

Actually, it got something to do with the Westermarck Effect. You know, it's the only reason why we don't think our siblings as 'love interest'

Basically, it's some sort of biological imprinting: when two people live in close domestic proximity during the first few years in the life of either one, both are desensitized to later close sexual attraction. It protect mankind from the genetic defect of inbreeding.

If you got a sibling, but don't live with him/her in the frst few years of your life, you might get attracted to him/her later.

I guess it's the same with kissing cousin. I guess in culture where extended family lives in close proximity, kissing cousins were thought as taboo.

I'm not an anthropologist though :smalltongue:

I heard about this. This is why most siblings that find each other attractive are ones who haven't spent any time together, or ones that have lost touch for many many years.

[nothingclever]

I say go ahead and pursue a romantic relationship with your cousin if you feel like it. It could potentially save you and her a lot of awkward dating of strangers to find someone either of you can relate equally well with compared to how you are with each other. Besides you can always try to get rich and start your own incestuous royal family.

[thorgrim29]

You say little cousin, what exactly does that mean? Is she the daughter of one of your parent's siblings or more removed then that?

[Coidzor]

As for you: The first question in my mind is how old is your "little cousin?" And from that, how squicked out should I be about her mother seemingly wanting to hook the two of you up together. Or hopefully just being too playful and ending up inadvertently BLECK.

...

...

...

Great, now I'm really, really, really hoping that this is not at play with my younger cousins who look up to me and actually ask their parents to arrange things with my parents so that our families can get together and interact. *shudder*

I feel like I need a shower now.

I know two people who are married and who are first cousins. They first met when he was like 12-14 and she was 6 or something. They weren't allowed to legally get married until they could show proof that she had gone through menopause, which she had anyway, and early, if I recall, and he was actually a missionary in India for the years while she was a college student and housewife to her first husband.

In my area of the US, I believe it is legal for 2nd cousins to marry, and it is apparently legal for first cousins to do so as well, but only if there's no possibility of reproducing.

I personally find it a bit squicky, but on the other hand, I don't actually have any attractive cousins except for the one who I've only met like twice. And the last time we met I found out that not only did she have the same birthday as my then-girlfriend, but also possessed an uncanny resemblance to her, even in how she dressed/styled her hair.

Though I could have anticipated this from the way that many people had asked my ex and I whether we were brother and sister before we even started dating.... I was still rather shocked and squicked out. *shrug* She was moderately attractive from what little I can recall. I imagine if I met her and spent time with her that whole genetic attraction thing might come up, but meh, she's either a second or a third cousin, as I can't quite recall whether her mom is my dad's cousin or my dad's second cousin.

Depending upon the culture, I view 1st cousins as almost siblings, 2nd cousins as weird and usually quite squicky but acceptable in rare instances, 3rd weird but meh, and 4th and out more of an interesting coincidence of relation than anything else. If culturally, one actually keeps up with their extended family, then I'd move these steps out one or possibly two...


I don’t really see a problem with incest. I do know that if they then go and have children it can lead to some problems, but if people in this kind of relationship stay away from that, I really don’t see what the big deal is. No one has the right to judge you for it.

Expecting moderation of humans? :smallconfused: hahahahahahahhahahaha!

Apparently the actual risk is small unless you keep on doing it willfully like European royalty. There is an increased risk and it is statistically significant, but it is also still very small, going from 4% to 7% or something along those lines from what I've encountered.

My objections are entirely related to Westermarck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imprinting_(psychology)#Westermarck_effect) and culture.

Actually, the fact that you were born in the US and you were out of your formative years when the rest of your extended family moved near you ties into this a bit, since if you were interacting this closely with her when you or she were small children, the westermarck effect would be at play.

But hey, if you want to go for it and she's game, well, no one can really stop you, and most wouldn't want to. Those that remain are just a bit scary.

I'm uncompromising with actual siblings though. Like Germany in that regard.

[Tengu_temp]

I believe that nothing, be it gender, age, social standing, bonds of kinship or whatever, should stand in the way of true love. Although in the case of age it's better to keep it platonic until both parties get old enough.

The chances of genetic disorders in children coming from just a single generation of incest are negligible. Especially if their parents are cousins, not brother and sister.

[Jalor]

I see a pattern in your threads.

I know I wasn't the only one to notice this.

Anyway, there's absolutely nothing wrong with incest until there's a chance of it resulting in a genetic disorder, and even then it's only the act of having an incestuous child that's a bad thing, not the relationship itself.

[Serpentine]

I find the idea of cousin-cest icky... although I do have some pretty cute cousins :smallwink: But yeah, I'm pretty sure that'd freak a good portion of my family right out. On the other hand, I've lived in two country towns where most of the population is related to one another one way or another...
Oh, and Australia's grand for this stuff. Take, for example, a father-daughter couple in South Australia. With child/ren. Blegh :smallyuk:

Along these lines, the main problem with (sibling) incest is the increased risk of genetic defects in the offspring, right? So, what about situations where there is no chance of offspring? Say, brothers or sisters? Is that why "twincest" is sexy, not gross, cuz there's no offspring factor?

Kobold_Love: Quite a risk posting this question. Especially with so much background detail... Kudos for you.

[OverdrivePrime]

I am all for keeping the gene pool deep and diverse. Fewer than four degrees of separation for a possible reproductive partner runs counter to my hopes for human evolution.

Also, I have a cousin that used to make all kinds of weird advances on me when we were in early adolescence. Used to freak me right out. Now it makes me suspect that she has some nasty emotional scars from childhood. :smallconfused:

[Coidzor]

Oh, and Australia's grand for this stuff. Take, for example, a father-daughter couple in South Australia. With child/ren. Blegh :smallyuk:

Along these lines, the main problem with (sibling) incest is the increased risk of genetic defects in the offspring, right? So, what about situations where there is no chance of offspring? Say, brothers or sisters? Is that why "twincest" is sexy, not gross, cuz there's no offspring factor?

Wait, what? Really? I thought that was illegal in Australia.

Twincest is really only sexy insofar as the person fantasizing about it wants to join in on the sammich or wants someone they can project themselves upon to stand in for who is also easy on the eyes. And it's just a variation of the threesome only with two of the same person so to speak. At least with identical twins, with fraternal ones I think it's just the idea of getting to be with both X and her sister, and I'm trying and failing to analyze/follow that thought back to what it stems from.

Hmm... If one thinks a person is cute, this is partially due to finding said person to have attractive gene expression, so it stands to reason that one would also have a similar reaction to those who share a large number of genes with them such as siblings. Possibly also pheromones work in here as well. Might also fit with the group which desires both a mother and a daughter together...

And I imagine there's a certain feeling of victory and conquest if one feels responsible for not only winning two attractive members of the preferred sex, but also getting them to be able to shelve their incest taboo enough to enjoy one another while the festivities are underway.

[Faulty]

Having a child with a cousin really isn't that bad. Honestly, there's no much wrong with having a relationship with a cousin. It's not like it's with a parent, sibling, uncle or aunt.


I see a pattern in your threads.

Yeah. Um...

Yeah.

[Mx.Silver]

I've done far too much history to have any major squick reaction to the whole topic of cousin incest. From what you said it sounds almost as if your aunt is trying to set you two up (which I find a little uncomfortable, but I tend to react that way to overt parently involvement in these matters regardless of relatedness). Again, I would ask about how 'little' we're dealing with here, actual age and age difference. If there's something there between both of you though then I can't see any real objections to going for it, assuming you can deal with a few odd looks from other people.

[Serpentine]

Wait, what? Really? I thought that was illegal in Australia.Yep, it is. Not sure what happened with that, actually... I'm guessing it was just pretty hard to enforce.

Faulty: According to Wikipedia, the increase in risk of birth defects from a cousin coupling is about the same as any woman after 41. 'Course, I'm iffy about having a kid after 30 anyway...

[orchitect]

p.s. Oh, and a few months back my aunt suggested with a big suspicious smile that I take my little cousin to see a new movie she wanted to see.

How little are we talking about here?

I'd be more worried about the age difference than the cousin factor; it'd draw the most attention.

[adanedhel9]

There's no squick factor for me; it's just too common historically to bother me.

But one thing you'll want to think about is what happens should the relationship fall apart - even if you no longer want to be involved with her, you'll still be cousins. This could result in (at minimum) some uncomfortable reunions, or (at worst) a complete split in the family, with everyone feeling like they have to choose between your family and hers.

[Coidzor]

Orchitect: Actually I'm starting to become inclined to agree with you there. The longer I think about this the more perturbed I am by the possibilities of the age difference being more squicky than the being related thing.

Sort of how like parent-child rape is more horrifying due to it being an adult raping a child than due to it being incest, the incest being more of an icing on a cake of evil.


Yep, it is. Not sure what happened with that, actually... I'm guessing it was just pretty hard to enforce.

Faulty: According to Wikipedia, the increase in risk of birth defects from a cousin coupling is about the same as any woman after 41. 'Course, I'm iffy about having a kid after 30 anyway...

Hmm. That's worse than I thought then. As that's pretty bad if all of the talk of Down syndrome babies from Sarah Palin is any indication. Though we might be conflating birth defects and genetic problems from recessive alleles being grouped together due to shared genes.

Odd, since if it got onto the news that would imply at least enough grounds for an arrest to be made.

Especially with a child as DNA evidence... *shrug* I know Germany's been able to throw a brother-sister couple (their parents divorced and separated them as small children and they didn't meet until they were in their college years-to-mid-to-late twenties. somewhere in that decade) into jail several times now for both breaking the law and trying to get an illegal marriage.

[Faulty]

Faulty: According to Wikipedia, the increase in risk of birth defects from a cousin coupling is about the same as any woman after 41. 'Course, I'm iffy about having a kid after 30 anyway...

I was going off of this. (http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23792218-2761,00.html)

[Mauve Shirt]

Hrm. Seems awfully incestuous to me.

[Recaiden]

Well, it's legal in my state, which doesn't surprise me. And in my cousins' state, which kind of does.
It seems a bit odd to me, although I think as others have said, the risk of genetic problems from one first cousin marriage is low, even if there are some genes they wouldn't ordinarily share, which I believe is pretty unlikely anyway.
But I can't come up with any other logical reason that it'd be wrong.

[Swordlol]

Against it. There are tons of fish out there, society asks us to include a handfill of these "fish" as eligible endeavors.

Then there are also the slight risks of genetic problems that would not be found in "normal" couples. (Notice the quotations I put around normal)


But then again... . none of my female cousins are attrachative in my honest opinion.

[Serpentine]

Hmm. That's worse than I thought then. As that's pretty bad if all of the talk of Down syndrome babies from Sarah Palin is any indication. Though we might be conflating birth defects and genetic problems from recessive alleles being grouped together due to shared genes.So-so.

The report estimated the increased risk for first cousins at 1.7 - 2.8 % over the base risk of about 3%, or about the same as that of any woman over age 40[4], or of a still younger man (see paternal age). Put differently, first-cousin marriages entail roughly the same increased risk of birth defects as a woman faces when she gives birth at age 41 (roughly 6%) rather than at 30 (roughly 3%). Critics argue that banning first-cousin marriages would make as much sense as trying to ban childbearing by older women. These numbers were reported only for first instances of cousin mating; repeated generations of cousin coupling are thought to increase the risk substantially.[citation needed]Note, though, the "citation needed". Although it's not far off Faulty's report.

[Jibar]

I come from a county that is renowned for this throughout England, and yet I don't know anyone who has dated their cousin or anything of the kind. Although I do have such a big family tree it could happen accidentally I guess.
Funny thing is, it's so quiet here that you never get the chance to marry your family members. All the young people want to get out and the married couples want to come in, so there's nobody to marry at all.
Marry.
Although I have no problem with it at all. Queen Victoria married her cousin and had a huge empire. This must be connected.

[Faulty]

If you want to have children with a cousin, you can always adopt.

[LCR]

The strongest case I've heard against those anti-incest laws, is that while incest might incur a higher risk of genetical defects (although it is not nearly as high as some people think it is), the same can be said for people with known hereditary diseases and they are not prohibited to have sexual relations, nor would it be ethical to do so.

Also, George Michael Bluth and Maeby Fünke taught me that kissing cousins are hilarious.

[Mx.Silver]

Against it. There are tons of fish out there, society asks us to include a handfill of these "fish" as eligible endeavors.
Some societies have a prejudice against it yes. A fair number don't. Not much of an argument.



If you want to have children with a cousin, you can always adopt.

^this would basically counter the only real problem with it, yes.

[Mando Knight]

I'm actually fine with the idea of kissing cousins... though double first cousins or cousins whose parents married cousins could get messy genetics-wise. Just look at the Hapsburgs. So long as you don't start a long chain of inbreeding, it should be fine.

...No, I'm not just saying this because I have a few attractive cousins. (Though, statistically, having eight uncles does almost inevitably lead to at least one attractive cousin...)

[Coidzor]

^: I dunno, it would seem to imply that your family has a preterponderence for male offspring, which would limit your heterosexual options by a fair margin.
Some societies have a prejudice against it yes. A fair number don't. Not much of an argument.

Cultural values and taboos are still there though, even when you dismiss them as illogical and faulty.

*shrug* :/

It mostly depends on the expected relationship between cousins that is expected in the culture, really. As has been said, in some places, cousins are basically treated as siblings who aren't seen as often and who get punished by a different set of parents. After that, second cousins might be people that one know that one is related to and who one sees from time to time but who one doesn't really know very well or vice versa.

[Mando Knight]

^: I dunno, it would seem to imply that your family has a preterponderence for male offspring,

It does. My only sister is adopted.

However, in this generation, only my parents and one uncle seem to show this trend. The others (that have children, anyway) all have at least one daughter.

However, it also means that repetitive inbreeding is limited, as there wouldn't be enough cousins to go around. :smallwink:

[Trog]

I am adopted and got tracked down by my birth mother a few years back. We met and later I agreed (with much hesitation) to go to a family reunion. There I met my birth dad and uncles and cousins and whatnot. Anyways, massive uncomfortableness aside, there was this one girl who was my cousin, apparently, and about my age or maybe a few years younger. She was attractive and she kept staring at me/obviously "checking me out" to the degree that I became very uncomfortable with it. Mainly because of the social taboo I guess. If this exchange happened in a bar and I had no clue she was my cousin things would have been different. Knowing it though made the whole situation rather... icky... for me. This is as close as I have come to dealing with this sort of situation. 'Twas most a most weird night all around. :smalleek:

That said I know in many families if you go back several generations you are more and more likely to find that cousins marrying has happened before. So perhaps in the U.S. it has become more taboo more recently? And maybe it wasn't long ago? Dunno.

Today I think it is largely a matter of culture. What might be okay in one person's culture may cause someone to be an outcast in another. Even if they live in the very same city. So I guess the big question to the OP is what does your culture feel about this? And how ingrained into that culture are you and your cousin? If your family is okay with it but you mainly exist in social circles outside of your culture you may run into problems.

[Fri]

Cultural values and taboos are still there though, even when you dismiss them as illogical and faulty.

*shrug* :/

It mostly depends on the expected relationship between cousins that is expected in the culture, really. As has been said, in some places, cousins are basically treated as siblings who aren't seen as often and who get punished by a different set of parents. After that, second cousins might be people that one know that one is related to and who one sees from time to time but who one doesn't really know very well or vice versa.

Yeah, you got it. It depends on WHOSE cultural values and taboos. I think it 'nomad' culture like the bedouin, or in my country, there's a culture that's famous for their knack on migrating and trading culture, cousins are not THAT close and basically just someone that accidentally related. No problem with marriage.

But, in agricultural culture, extended family lives close and do their farmwork together. They grown up together, and thus, relationship with cousins might be icky. That's my theory.

[FdL]

I think it's unusual enough that someone is attracted to their cousin. So if it even happens, I don't have any problem with it.

[Mando Knight]

I think it's unusual enough that someone is attracted to their cousin. So if it even happens, I don't have any problem with it.

Not that unusual, really. If the family is spread out over the entire US, then they don't see each other enough for the Westermarck effect to settle in.

[Faulty]

I've heard of a lot of people having their firest sexual experiences with cousins. Maybe it's just me.

[Joran]

I did make the mistake of describing one of my cousins as "hot". My friends never did let me live that one down.

On an odd note, I'm not sure I want my friends dating or marrying any of my relatives. That'd be kind of weird.

[FoE]

I tell you, I won't live in a town that robs men of the right to marry his cousins!

[Agamid]

my great grandparents were 1st cousins and my uncle dated his 1st cousin for years (they even lived together in a one-bedroom flat).

i only have two first cousins and seeing them once every 10 years is quite enough for me.

i say whatever, mildly creepy but it's not (at least in this country) breaking any laws.

Kind of on topic, my dad is married to a Korean woman with the surname "Lee" (pronounced "ee"). it's one of about 3-4 names that make up about 95% of the population in South Korea. Oddly, it is illegal for her to marry another Lee (even if they have no blood relations what so ever). It must make things difficult to be a Lee, seeing as how 30-24% of the population are also Lees.

[Faulty]

On an odd note, I'm not sure I want my friends dating or marrying any of my relatives. That'd be kind of weird.

I concur with this. I'm a bit weird about family, honestly.

[ForzaFiori]

I see no problem with kissing cousins, but then, I"m from the deep south, where marrying your cousin ranks with watching the NASCAR races as a hobby. (although, oddly enough, about half the deep south has outlawed cousin incest, but not my state). granted enough of it causes genetic problems, but as long as its not cousins marrying cousins over and over again for like 4 generations, you should be fine. Do what makes you (and the other person, in a case like this) happy.

[Jamin]

I think it is G R O S S.:smallyuk: {Scrubbed}

[Milskidasith]

I see no real problems with it.

[Myatar_Panwar]

There are plenty of girls out there. I would just avoid the confusion and future family drama by looking elsewhere.

Although, if I met a couple who happened to be cousins, I woulden't care or think it is "GROSS".
{Scrubbed}

[thubby]

I... honestly have 0 thoughts on the subject...

seeing as how it isn't immediately repugnant, i guess I'm not against it.

edit: what are these other threads and their theme exactly?

[GrandMasterMe]

I think it is G R O S S.:smallyuk: {scrubbed}

I think that is rude to tell someone who you barely know and who may or may not be a cool person that they need help. Especially if all they have done is to express an interest in sexuality. Is procreation bad? Is wanting to procreate something that is in need of psychological evaluation? If it is I have a feeling that we lack the psychologists to handle the ENTIRE human population.

[Serpentine]

I just looked up all the threads started by Kobold Love... Two involving making a seductive D&D character based on a sexy kobold picture (not surprising considering his name, really...), 6 generic D&D threads, one D&D x Southpark thread, one about a show, and this one. Does that add up? Yep.
Soooo... Yeah, I don't see it, Jamin. What's your problem, I wonder? :smallconfused:

[Khanderas]

I've read in places (can't remember where off the top of my head) that first-cousins are no more likely to produce genetic defects than two random people on the street. Unless it's siblings or carried on for a few generations, the risk of problems are no higher.
I second that heresay. I heard / read it as well somewhere, without any references to back it up and Im too much at work to actually look it up.

Now the social issues of this... is perhaps of more immediate concern for the OP. And those vary from area, persons and instances.

[rangermania]

I was going to make pretty a long speech about Cousin marriages,results and laws in my Country... But I really need to know how old Kobold_Love and his Little Cousin are...

[arguskos]

Meh? Cousins marrying might bug me a little (thanks cultural dislike of incest!), but really? I seriously doubt it'll cause any issues.

Also, Kobold_Love, your threads are great. I approve of this trend. :smallamused:

[Sneak]

As bad as incest is supposed to be, I really don't think marrying your cousin is that likely to lead to any problems.

What it is, though, is mad hella weird. Or it would be, if I actually said things like "mad hella."

I can't even imagine marrying any of my female cousins, despite the fact that they are very attractive and pretty much awesome people in general (I mean, they are related to me).

It would just be too weird.

And on a completely unrelated note, are you a fan of the show Arrested Development, by any chance?

[LCR]

And on a completely unrelated note, are you a fan of the show Arrested Development, by any chance?

Yesyesyesyesyesyesyes. So awesome. To quote my earlier post, George Michael Bluth and Maeby Fünke taught me everything I ever need to know about kissing cousins and frozen bananas.

[Thanatos 51-50]

If I remember correctly, there was some kind of study stating that genetic diversity doesn't suffer with relatives as close as one's first cousin.

Therefore - I have no real opinion on "kissing cousins", because my only objection would be the genetic diversity argument.

[Nameless]

{Scrubbed}

[Exeson]

Oh god, the topic of incest is a running joke among my cousins. This is because of the eight of us I'm the youngest (at age 17) and the oldest is 25 and we all live fairly far apart. Therefore when we all meet it is usually for Christmas or some other occasion and therefore Bring on the drinking games!

Our favorite one is pig out, and there are a massive number of cards that we have just labeled 'incest cards' (kiss the person to the left, etc.) and for those everyone just drinks instead. ^_^

Plus the topic of incest comes up waaaay to frequently among us. But we are all a bit of a wacky bunch to begin with.

[Serpentine]

If I remember correctly, there was some kind of study stating that genetic diversity doesn't suffer with relatives as close as one's first cousin.

Therefore - I have no real opinion on "kissing cousins", because my only objection would be the genetic diversity argument.Like I said, 'parently it's as genetically "bad" as 41+ year old women.

[xanaphia]

Of course: (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TroperTales/KissingCousins)

[Tiger Duck]

What are kissing cousins? How are they related to oneself?
parents are brother and sister? or grandparents are?

[GAThraawn]

It was only in the last few years, after having lived in North America for a while, I even discovered there was a taboo against cousin relationships. Not something I had ever encountered before, as cousin relationships are perfectly acceptable where I'm from. So it's the taboo that I find wierd and slightly unsettling.

[Telonius]

Another 2cp from an adopted child - I spent a fair amount of time with my 3 (not genetically related to me) female cousins when I was a child. Thinking about it - ew. Even though I know intellectually that there wouldn't be any more chance of genetic abnormality in the child than any random person on the street, my brain won't let me even go there. It's not (strictly speaking) logical, but there it is.

I suspect it's gotten a little less accepted as families have tended to be smaller. Back when you had 8 or 9 kids in a family regularly, within about three or four generations you'd be related to half the town by blood or marriage. It was harder to find somebody who wasn't a relative, so I guess it would be more accepted to marry somebody who's closer. Now that families only have two kids (if that), it would be much more unusual to even run into someone who's related to you, let alone a relative who's the appropriate gender, age, and attractive enough that you'd want to sleep with.

[Mordokai]

Of course: (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TroperTales/KissingCousins)

Squicky!

Me likes :smallbiggrin:

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I'm fairly uncomfortable with it to be frank. My reasons are both personal and religious.

I don't think 'too' badly of just cousins, but when you get even closer... just don't.

I'm actually kind of intrigued by the ready excepting of true incest displayed in this thread (i.e. brother/sister/parent). I'm secure enough with myself that I don't have to be afraid of being accused of having a 'closed mind'. There are simply some things that deserve a hearty 'HELL, NO!'. Leave bro, sis, mom and dad alone.

Cousins brings about a distinct twinge but I'm not going to come down on that too hard. Just make sure its what's right.

Now, on that note, the woman I wish to marry one day is the daughter of someone I've considered more my 'mom' than my actual mom. I would ask for no one else to be my mother-in-law. We're not even distantly related, just an odd thought as I was typing.

[Faulty]

An incestuous relationship could be really dangerous due to the nature of relationships in a nuclear family. A parental relationship is abusive if it's sexual.

[Thanatos 51-50]

What are kissing cousins? How are they related to oneself?
parents are brother and sister? or grandparents are?

I just relised this question has yet to be answered:
As I understand it, kissing cousins is a term for any two cousins who are in a romantic relationship. For example, if I were to begin dating my cousin Nicole*, she and I would be "kissing cousins"

*I'm not aware of a cousin of mine named Nicole. Of course, I have in excess of two dozen cousins on my mother's side, the majority of whom I've never met. This name was used as an example and was produced from the aether.

EDIT: While I, as previously mentioned have no issue with cousin-cousin relationships, for the previously mentioned reason, the idea of "true" incest (Direct relations) does make my stomach turn a bit and highlights ye aulde genetic diversity problem, and so I cannot support them. If that's your thing, though, I won't campagin to get you and your patner broken up.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

...and was produced from the aether.
Ok, now I have rolling in my mind a new race. Aetherborn...

[Thanatos 51-50]

Ok, now I have rolling in my mind a new race. Aetherborn...

I have inspired the almighty Vorpal Tribble! We should all be afraid. (4E compatable? Pleeeeease? :puppyeyes:)

[TRM]

I'm uncomfortable with the idea. I would not choose to date one of my cousins (even though there are numerous attractive specimens) and would be squicked out being around a couple that were first cousins. This reaction is largely unconscious, with no basis behind it other than "that's gross." To me it feels like dating a parent or a sibling, something you don't even contemplate. Ever.

That's my opinion.


As I understand it, kissing cousins is a term for any two cousins who are in a romantic relationship. For example, if I were to begin dating my cousin Nicole*, she and I would be "kissing cousins"
If you have a cousin named Nicole, may I ask her out? In my experience, anyone named Nicole is bound to be attractive.

[Telonius]

I just relised this question has yet to be answered:
As I understand it, kissing cousins is a term for any two cousins who are in a romantic relationship. For example, if I were to begin dating my cousin Nicole*, she and I would be "kissing cousins"

*I'm not aware of a cousin of mine named Nicole. Of course, I have in excess of two dozen cousins on my mother's side, the majority of whom I've never met. This name was used as an example and was produced from the aether.

EDIT: While I, as previously mentioned have no issue with cousin-cousin relationships, for the previously mentioned reason, the idea of "true" incest (Direct relations) does make my stomach turn a bit and highlights ye aulde genetic diversity problem, and so I cannot support them. If that's your thing, though, I won't campagin to get you and your patner broken up.

I'd always thought that "Kissing cousins" were relatives that were far enough away from each other to legally be able to have a relationship. Second cousins would be "kissing cousins" - that is, cousins where it's (more or less) okay to kiss.

[Jamin]

I am sorry about my earlier rudeness:smallredface:. I really do feel bad about it. Not just because I got warning for it.

[Tiger Duck]

I'd always thought that "Kissing cousins" were relatives that were far enough away from each other to legally be able to have a relationship. Second cousins would be "kissing cousins" - that is, cousins where it's (more or less) okay to kiss.

That was what I always thought but earlier post made me think otherwise so now I'm confused.:smallsmile:

[Lerky]

Cousins dating...uh...I'll be honest, it gives me shivers (mainly 'cause whenever it's mentioned I imagine myself dating one of my cousins and it's a creepy thought) but even though I'm not comfortable with it, I don't discriminate people who have true feelings for each other. But you should be aware that there are risks, rule #1 when it comes to having kids is to keep the genes as far away as possible (my bad for jumping to the kids conclusion so soon:smalltongue:) but if your willing to take the risks of not only health hazards but what other people will say, by all means feel fre to do so. It's not really my place to judge.

[Erothayce]

It kind of squicks me out but that's from growing up in America. I think that if it's love go for it and damn what people think, they don't matter anyway. This reminds me of Robert Heinlein and Time Enough For Love. My step mothers sister married her first cousin and they have a child together and unfortunately it has problems but I don't know if that's just bad luck or bad genes.

[nothingclever]

I find people that use made up words like "squick" and the people that use them more disturbing than someone dating or even reproducing with his cousin. Were I to use words like squick I'd castrate myself and ensure that I do not reproduce. Repulsed, disgusted, apprehensive, perturbed, agitated, disconcerted, perplexed, nauseated, weary and revolted all suddenly are obsolete words?

[mikeejimbo]

Hiding such a relationship could be very hard and stressful. Not hiding it could lead to family awkwardness.

[Warpfire]

I find people that use made up words like "squick" and the people that use them more disturbing than someone dating or even reproducing with his cousin. Were I to use words like squick I'd castrate myself and ensure that I do not reproduce.

The word 'squick' disturbs you? :smallconfused:

I mean, it's not part of my vocabulary and to be honest I find it kind of annoying, but disturbing?

Also, the first part of your sentence is rather redundant.

[Kaelaroth]

I'd always thought that "Kissing cousins" were relatives that were far enough away from each other to legally be able to have a relationship. Second cousins would be "kissing cousins" - that is, cousins where it's (more or less) okay to kiss.

Yes - that's what my Neil Gaiman book told me. :smallbiggrin:

[nothingclever]

The word 'squick' disturbs you? :smallconfused:

Yeah, it does. Squick is basically the same thing as several other words that already exist. What's the point of using it? It sounds to me like people think using a made up word is less offensive than real one. Like "Oh I'm not disgusted, I'm just super squicked." "I didn't kill that man your honour, I just squiddled him. His heart stopped and he has been officially declared dead but I prefer the word squiddled to dead. Make my sentence way lighter than normal for a regular murderer because I use words like squiddled." If you're going to say you're disgusted just say you're disgusted. If you don't want to sound bad choose a word with a less negative connotation. If my best friend was murdered I want to be told by the police that he was murdered, not squiddled. If someone hates my guts that's what I want to hear, not I hate your "galbraxion."

[Kobold_Love]

Thank you all for the advice!

It is a complicated issue, and I see there are all kinds of views on the subject.

To answer a few questions:

She is 17, I am 23.

My dad and her mom are siblings.



Kobold_Love: Quite a risk posting this question. Especially with so much background detail... Kudos for you.

Hahahahahahahaha!

The odds any relative of mine would be surfing these forums, or reading OotS is completely unlikely, but thank you for caring. :smallsmile:



I am sorry about my earlier rudeness:smallredface:. I really do feel bad about it. Not just because I got warning for it.

No problem dude.

I made this thread to get people's honest opinons. And I now realize that if I were lucky enough to start something with her, there would people with your reaction in real life. And many strange looks. They would not hold me back, though.

Also, this issue is why I could say pretty certainly why I had no attraction to the college girl in the other thread.

[Warpfire]

Yeah, it does. Squick is basically the same thing as several other words that already exist. What's the point of using it? It sounds to me like people think using a made up word is less offensive than real one. Like "Oh I'm not disgusted, I'm just super squicked." "I didn't kill that man your honour, I just squiddled him. His heart stopped and he has been officially declared dead but I prefer the word squiddled to dead. Make my sentence way lighter than normal for a regular murderer because I use words like squiddled." If you're going to say you're disgusted just say you're disgusted. If you don't want to sound bad choose a word with a less negative connotation.

Well, if that's the purpose you have a point, but I think people use it just because it's become a popular neologism on the internet rather than any attempt to look better.

[nothingclever]

Well, if that's the purpose you have a point, but I think people use it just because it's become a popular neologism on the internet rather than any attempt to look better.
I have a hunch it has gained popularity on the internet partially for that reason.

[mikeejimbo]

Ooh, I see you're cross cousins rather than parallel cousins! You know what that means? Not a dang thing. But in some cultures, such as the Ya̧nomamö, it's OK to marry your cross cousins but not your parallel cousins. Actually, among that tribe, you're supposed to marry your cross cousins. Still though, there's nothing at all different in the genetic relationship between parallel and cross cousins.

Also, you said you were first cousins, correct? First cousin marriages are illegal in 25 of the 50 states in the US, but second cousin marriages are legal everywhere, I believe. First cousin marriages are not illegal in any European country, as far as I know.

In some states where first cousin marriages are illegal, you are allowed to get married in another state and still have that state honor your marriage. In others, you're not allowed to get married but there is nothing against being in a relationship, even a physical one. Check your own state's laws.

Additionally, for your sake I hope your aunt would actually be OK with this relationship, and not just playing around.

Oh, though if it were me I'd wait until she was 18, as well. I mean, in most states age of consent is around 16 anyway, but you can't be too careful.

[nothingclever]

She is 17, I am 23.

Sounds fine to me. You're clearly not Chester the Molester if she's only 1 year away from the age of majority. In many countries you can marry with parental consent at or before 17.

Maybe you should try asking your aunt what her intentions are either directly or indirectly. If she thinks you sound weird asking her just point out that other relatives have done the same thing and you can't read her mind.

[Lerky]

I made this thread to get people's honest opinons. And I now realize that if I were lucky enough to start something with her, there would people with your reaction in real life. And many strange looks. They would not hold me back, though.

well you sound like you're willing to give the world for this girl, and in my opinion that's the only requirment. In the words of Dr. Seuss "Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."

[Jamin]

I think saying squick is fun to say which means that I use it all the time. What that says about me I don't know.

[Warpfire]

I have a hunch it has gained popularity on the internet partially for that reason.

Hmm...that's certainly possible. No real way to know for sure, though.

Well, I don't even like the word that much myself, so I guess I'll stop defending it now.

As for the actual topic: Well, I don't have any problems with other people getting it on with whoever they want (as long as there's age and consent), but "kissing cousins" isn't something I'd do. The one time I accidentally went a little bit down that road it just didn't feel right.

Still, if you're into it, I say go ahead.

[Johel]

On personal point of view, nothing creepy about the cousin issue. I had a crush on my cousin when I was 14. She wasn't a beauty but I was lonely and she was the nearest girl available so...

Things can become a problem if it goes from a crush to a full romance because, if it fails pass that point, then there might be some uneasy feelings among your family. And being the mature one, you'll be blamed cause you're expected to keep your cool, even if your cousin is smoking hot. She got the excuse of being a teenager.

Which bring me to my only real concern : the age gap. 5 years, it's nothing when you are both in your twenties but right now, it's a bit big, don't you think ? I mean, it's one thing to have a look and think "-Hey !! She's growing up nicely". It's another to think about a romance that may/may not exist. Rather than concidering your aunt's clues, concider first how the cousin herself is acting, maybe ?

[CurlyKitGirl]

I have no problem with it at all; to be honest, I think that the only relationship I'd feel uncomfortable with with be true incest.
This ambivalence is probably because of my insanely large family.
My grandpa is one of thirteen children.
My gran is one of eleven.
My granny was one of twelve.
My granddad was on of fourteen.
My mum is one of ten, though one was stillborn and my dad is one of eight.
And every one of my relations bar one aunt, her husband, her three daughters and three grandchildren all live within fifty miles of where I live right now. Except for another cousin who I've just remembered is going to SIngapore with his wife to teach English.

To put it another way:
When I was in secondary school there were two cousins I knew of, plus two potential second cousins in my form. I had two other definite second cousins and an honourary cousin in my year, plus some potential relatives. And all eight of us had siblings who had either just left school, were in it or were coming up in a year or two.
There were people we barely knew walking up to us saying, "Are you 's kid?"
Any of us: " . . . Yes . . . ?"
"That's grand! I'm your mother's cousin you know. And my neice [insert name] is in your English class!"
I could probably walk into any class in the school and pick out someone related either to my or my two first cousins who were in my form.
And this was in a school of barely a thousand. Including staff.

And it doesn't help that half of my grandpa's siblings were given an incorrectly spelled name when the census people came down sixty years ago so I [I]literally could end up accidentally marrying my own cousin.
There's only a one letter difference, but it's worrying enough.
But I go by the motto that if you really love someone it's fine.

[Exeson]

Yeah, it does. Squick is basically the same thing as several other words that already exist. What's the point of using it? It sounds to me like people think using a made up word is less offensive than real one. Like "Oh I'm not disgusted, I'm just super squicked." "I didn't kill that man your honour, I just squiddled him. His heart stopped and he has been officially declared dead but I prefer the word squiddled to dead. Make my sentence way lighter than normal for a regular murderer because I use words like squiddled." If you're going to say you're disgusted just say you're disgusted. If you don't want to sound bad choose a word with a less negative connotation. If my best friend was murdered I want to be told by the police that he was murdered, not squiddled. If someone hates my guts that's what I want to hear, not I hate your "galbraxion."

You are doing the English language a HUGE injustice. This is how it evolves, see the use of squick is very specific yes, but it is still valid. Words have a feel to them, and squick, especially with the use of the 's' and 'q' sounds combined with a very sharp 'k' ending gives the impression of something slightly dodgey and perhaps a little bit slimey. True language is not so much about the words themselves but what they invoke.

[Zanaril]

Yeah, it does. Squick is basically the same thing as several other words that already exist. What's the point of using it? It sounds to me like people think using a made up word is less offensive than real one.

iirc, if you find something "squicky" you mean it disturbs you, but you don't have a problem with it morally, or with people who don't find it squicky.

It's the difference between finding horror movies disgusting and thinking people who watch them are disgusting for enjoying them, and with personally disliking horror movies because they scare you but not having a problem with other people watching them.

[Coidzor]

Curly: Get out while you still can. :smalleek: ...From what I've seen you don't seem to be built for that kind of output.


Yeah, it does. Squick is basically the same thing as several other words that already exist. What's the point of using it? It sounds to me like people think using a made up word is less offensive than real one.

Huh, I always figured that it combines all of those words and then adds in an extra couple of sentences along the lines of, "Currently, while my skin may not be crawling, it wants to crawl and if indeed confronted with such before my own senses, my skin would be ripping itself off of my body to either run away from or destroy the source of the offense" and "I feel like I wish that I wanted to vomit up my lunch, or at least say that I vomited a little in my mouth or the back of my throat."

17 and 23. Much better than when I misread that as 17 and 33. *phew*

Wait... :smalleek: 23! ARGH!

Hmm. More seriously. She probably definitely has some growing up to do before she'd be mature enough for a relationship between the two of you. Also, I'd be hesitant to influence her post-secondary education plans unduly...

[nothingclever]

Hmm. More seriously. She probably definitely has some growing up to do before she'd be mature enough for a relationship between the two of you. Also, I'd be hesitant to influence her post-secondary education plans unduly...
People start relationships before or at 17 all the time. It doesn't have to be anything serious. He could just put some extra effort into trying to be best buddies with her.

[Sneak]

I'd have to agree with the others that 17 and 23 is a fairly large age gap. When you get older, the gap lessens, but right now...she could be in high school and you could be out of college. Which is a bit weird in my book.

As another deterrent, if things don't work out, having a cousin who's also your ex could get very awkward.

[Coidzor]

People start relationships before or at 17 all the time. It doesn't have to be anything serious. He could just put some extra effort into trying to be best buddies with her.

He's old enough that he's either been working for awhile or he's just entering the workforce post-college or going on to grad school.

She's finishing up highschool if she hasn't dropped out.

Pretty different life situations.

[nothingclever]

Regardless of how their situations differ the two of them having a more involved relationship with each other isn't necessarily a problem. Whether it is romantic or sexual is the real issue. How is attempting to spend significantly more time with her a problem all on its own?

[Jalor]

Regardless of how their situations differ the two of them having a more involved relationship with each other isn't necessarily a problem. Whether it is romantic or sexual is the real issue. How is attempting to spend significantly more time with her a problem all on its own?

Even then, the emotional maturity gap could be a problem. Even people who seen otherwise stable can be very immature in regards to relationships, especially when sex is involved. And even more so when the sex is technically incest.

[Pika...]

I have no problem with it at all; to be honest, I think that the only relationship I'd feel uncomfortable with with be true incest.
This ambivalence is probably because of my insanely large family.
My grandpa is one of thirteen children.
My gran is one of eleven.
My granny was one of twelve.
My granddad was on of fourteen.
My mum is one of ten, though one was stillborn and my dad is one of eight.
And every one of my relations bar one aunt, her husband, her three daughters and three grandchildren all live within fifty miles of where I live right now. Except for another cousin who I've just remembered is going to SIngapore with his wife to teach English.

To put it another way:
When I was in secondary school there were two cousins I knew of, plus two potential second cousins in my form. I had two other definite second cousins and an honourary cousin in my year, plus some potential relatives. And all eight of us had siblings who had either just left school, were in it or were coming up in a year or two.
There were people we barely knew walking up to us saying, "Are you 's kid?"
Any of us: " . . . Yes . . . ?"
"That's grand! I'm your mother's cousin you know. And my neice [insert name] is in your English class!"
I could probably walk into any class in the school and pick out someone related either to my or my two first cousins who were in my form.
And this was in a school of barely a thousand. Including staff.

And it doesn't help that half of my grandpa's siblings were given an incorrectly spelled name when the census people came down sixty years ago so I [I]literally could end up accidentally marrying my own cousin.
There's only a one letter difference, but it's worrying enough.
But I go by the motto that if you really love someone it's fine.

May I please ask where you live? A hobbit/halfing village by any chance?

I keep picturing that scene in lord of the rings where the chubby hobbit was describing how he was related to the hobbit girl he loves and ends up marrying at the end.

[Kobold_Love]

Um, well I am still waiting for marriage. Not religious in any way, but it is a personal choice for various reasons.

So I do not have those intentions at least. Although she is attractive in my opinion.

[Exeson]

Um, well I am still waiting for marriage. Not religious in any way, but it is a personal choice for various reasons.

So I do not have those intentions at least. Although she is attractive in my opinion.

Oh dear, that has just brought back one of my friend's rather crude sayings.

Get in, get on, get off, get out.

Or, if you look at it another way

got on, get in, get out, get off

[mikeejimbo]

You are doing the English language a HUGE injustice. This is how it evolves, see the use of squick is very specific yes, but it is still valid. Words have a feel to them, and squick, especially with the use of the 's' and 'q' sounds combined with a very sharp 'k' ending gives the impression of something slightly dodgey and perhaps a little bit slimey. True language is not so much about the words themselves but what they invoke.

Well on the other hand, why do we need "squicky" when we could just say "slithy?" I'm sure the momeraths wouldn't mind.

[Coidzor]

^:Popular consensus.


May I please ask where you live? A hobbit/halfing village by any chance?

I keep picturing that scene in lord of the rings where the chubby hobbit was describing how he was related to the hobbit girl he loves and ends up marrying at the end.

Wales. Home of the Welsh. Which might just have partially been used to base the shire off of.




OP: Hmm, well, I guess the next step is to tell your aunt you're not interested then.

[The Dark Fiddler]

I know you thanked for the advice already (which for some reason, when said by the OP, I interpret as "thank you, thread closed as far as I care"), but I just wanted to say I have no problem with others doing it.

I might not personally do it, but if others want to, I'm ok with it. However, I've come to learn I'm a very open person when it comes to relationships, if that means anything (for example, I don't think Polygamy in itself is bad).

[Kobold_Love]

OP: Hmm, well, I guess the next step is to tell your aunt you're not interested then.

What makes you think that?

[Coidzor]

Well, you made it seem like you weren't very interested, at least at this time, and that she was trying to get you to go out with her daughter.

[Kobold_Love]

Oh dear, that has just brought back one of my friend's rather crude sayings.

Get in, get on, get off, get out.

Or, if you look at it another way

got on, get in, get out, get off

Cute. :smallbiggrin:



I know you thanked for the advice already (which for some reason, when said by the OP, I interpret as "thank you, thread closed as far as I care"), but I just wanted to say I have no problem with others doing it.

I might not personally do it, but if others want to, I'm ok with it. However, I've come to learn I'm a very open person when it comes to relationships, if that means anything (for example, I don't think Polygamy in itself is bad).

Same here. I always had a strong belief in "if there is true love, no one should be able to stop them". And I have seen cases where polygamy has worked out IRL, both cases being when a person had to decide between two others, but the others decided it better if they did not (one was male, the other female [making it Polyandry]). Still speak to the female one on occasion (obviously the guys are not the jealous types, at least not anymore) and she is very happy. If they can keep it going in this society? No clue.

[Kobold_Love]

Well, you made it seem like you weren't very interested, at least at this time, and that she was trying to get you to go out with her daughter.

You can want to be with someone without wanting to you-know-what them.

[Coidzor]

Not usually, as that's what finding them attractive implies. :smalltongue:

But, hey, it's your decision, I was partially testing the waters with that one.

[TRM]

Yeah, it does. Squick is basically the same thing as several other words that already exist. What's the point of using it? It sounds to me like people think using a made up word is less offensive than real one. Like "Oh I'm not disgusted, I'm just super squicked." "I didn't kill that man your honour, I just squiddled him. His heart stopped and he has been officially declared dead but I prefer the word squiddled to dead. Make my sentence way lighter than normal for a regular murderer because I use words like squiddled." If you're going to say you're disgusted just say you're disgusted. If you don't want to sound bad choose a word with a less negative connotation. If my best friend was murdered I want to be told by the police that he was murdered, not squiddled. If someone hates my guts that's what I want to hear, not I hate your "galbraxion."
I use it because it sounds funny. It also carries slightly different connotations for me than any of your listed synonyms. When I use it the meaning I intend is disgust and shock with slight repulsion, all caused by an atypical sexual behavior or thought.

So, basically, you dislike euphemisms?

[Mando Knight]

Well on the other hand, why do we need "squicky" when we could just say "slithy?" I'm sure the momeraths wouldn't mind.

Because "squick" is more onomatopoeia-tastic. It's one of those words that just the sound of it makes you think of something rather repulsive.

[Swordlol]

Some societies have a prejudice against it yes. A fair number don't. Not much of an argument.


What do you mean not much of an argument?
There are 3291805000 females in the world. The only ones you can't date/elope with - are the two dozen in your family.

[mikeejimbo]

Because "squick" is more onomatopoeia-tastic. It's one of those words that just the sound of it makes you think of something rather repulsive.

True, slithy, while it does make me think of something repulsive, doesn't carry quite the same connotation.

Still, I think you missed the point. "Slithy" is also a made-up word, you know.


What do you mean not much of an argument?
There are 3291805000 females in the world. The only ones you can't date/elope with - are the two dozen in your family.

And in some cultures, the two dozen cousins you have are the only ones you CAN date.

[Coidzor]

And in some cultures, the two dozen cousins you have are the only ones you CAN date.

mmm, double, triple, quadruple, and ad nauseum cousin-marriages. I'm pretty sure that's when they actually believe one runs into trouble with it anyway...


All words are made up. The official ones have just been believed in and used for longer.

[Tharivol123]

Many others have done so, but I'll just through my two cents in as well. Don't care what other people think, don't care what your aunt's intentions are. All that matters is what you and your cousin think/feel. Talk to her about things, and if both you and her are into the idea of a relationship, and are able to get past the age gap, go for it.
Age gap is my only thing. 23 and 17 is a fairly large gap. 6 years isn't the big part (when I was 26 I dated a 20 year old), its the big difference between in high school and graduating/graduated from college. It can make a difference. I dated a 17 year old HS senior my sophomore year of college and it did feel strange at times.

[Raiser Blade]

It sounds like the OP is reading way too much into his aunt's and cousins actions. There's a big difference between going to the movies and actually dating. His aunt is probably not promoting any sort of romantic relationship and nothing described by the op shows his cousin as feeling any sort of attraction to him in a non familial way.

from my experience if a girl likes you in that way she'll let you know and it won't be something goofy like a wink.

[Cyrano]

from my experience if a girl likes you in that way she'll let you know and it won't be something goofy like a wink.

Note: This does not work if you're stupid. *

*Note: When it comes to women, all men are stupid.**

**Note: Yes, even you. Sorry. At least we can commiserate.

[TheThan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0s5Kn9QXtU

sorta relevant Youtube link

[Raiser Blade]

*Note: When it comes to women, all men are stupid.**


Not true. I may not understand women on a deep emotional level but I can sure as hell pick up on their signals. Whether they be positive or negative.

[Coidzor]

Thank you, TheThan.

Also. It is good that you read their signals, otherwise you might have an auto accident when they were signaling a turn.

[Raiser Blade]

Thank you, TheThan.

Also. It is good that you read their signals, otherwise you might have an auto accident when they were signaling a turn.

Why would they need to signal a turn...


in THE KITCHEN!

[Pika...]

Why would they need to signal a turn...


in THE KITCHEN!

Wait, your profile has a female signal on it? :smalleek:

[Cyrano]

Not true. I may not understand women on a deep emotional level but I can sure as hell pick up on their signals. Whether they be positive or negative.


**Note: Yes, even you. Sorry. At least we can commiserate.

Frankly, I don't even care if this is true. If you can read women I don't want to hear about it, I want to stay in the bright little place in my head where people happen to tell me things outright. I'm happier there, as are the copious number of ladies in my society-accepted harem.

EDIT: ^^ Loathe as I am to admit it, that was actually pretty good.

[Galileo]

Did you try peanut butter? That usually lures the elf monkeys out. Then you headbutt them into the oven. Mmm, roast elf monkeys in peanut sauce...

[Swordlol]

And in some cultures, the two dozen cousins you have are the only ones you CAN date.

The only culture I care about is America's... and to a lesser extent other industry countries'....

Like England or China.

[mangosta71]

Depends on a few things. How closely related are you? The original post kind of implies first cousins (or would, for a typical American, since we don't tend to pay attention to things more distant than that). As has been mentioned, it may be illegal in your area.

Proximity is another issue. For example, I grew up on the opposite side of the country from my cousins. If our families had been closer, I imagine that regular interaction would have reinforced the whole "we're related" thing and kept me from thinking that they were pretty cute.

Your culture doesn't seem to have anything in particular against it. American culture varies widely depending on region. We joke about people in the deep south being a bunch of inbreds because, well...such things are more acceptable than they would be in New England or the west coast.

You call her "little" so I'm somewhat curious about the age difference. Honestly, that's more likely to raise eyebrows than a familial tie because it's more noticeable to an outside observer.

[mikeejimbo]

The only culture I care about is America's... and to a lesser extent other industry countries'....

Like England or China.

Well as far as I know it's legal in England. I don't know about China.

[Tequila Sunrise]

Hm, interesting topic! I can't say I've ever met a couple that I knew to be related, but if I ever do I'll get over it.

The only thing that would make me judgmental of such a couple would be if they had children without getting their genes tested first. I was born with cystic fibrosis and was diagnosed with diabetes at the age of 22, both the result of genes, so I take genes very seriously. (My parents aren't related, so they had no reasonable way of knowing that their particular genes carried a high risk of producing a sick child like me.)

Anyway my point is: to have access to modern medical testing but not use it to prevent genetic disorder is outright criminal negligence as far as I'm concerned. If your genes don't match up well with the one you love, don't risk bringing a child into an overpopulated world that will be full of disability, discomfort and pain for them. Adopt.

That ended up more judgmental than I intended, especially since Kobold_Love hasn't even mentioned children. If you really like this girl, I say go for it. Just don't do anything foolish.

EDIT: How does she feel about your role playing hobby? :smallsmile:

[Sneak]

I think I have to highlight Raiser's point now. How do you even know that your cousin is attracted to you? So far, you've just mentioned that you've been getting closer—that implies no romantic connection. You said that your aunt has been giving you suggestive look and winks, not your cousin. And your aunt could just be joking. So how do you know that she (your potential cousin-lover) is even interested? For all you know, she could be disgusted by the mere thought of cousin-cousin incest.

Just some more food for cousin-related thought.

[Serpentine]

'parrently my Boy's Nan married her cousin. ...'sall I've got to add now.

[Fri]

{Scrubbed}

[Fri]

The only culture I care about is America's... and to a lesser extent other industry countries'....

Like England or China.

And they wonder why the rest of the world don't like them :smallsigh:

[Coidzor]

Well, y'know, with cultural and moral relativism, that is the implication.

It only matters what perspective on X that the culture you're currently in has. So, in the US, it only really matters what that region thinks about cousin-marriage in addition to those actually involved.

[Trog]

And they wonder why the rest of the world don't like them :smallsigh:
:smallannoyed: Yes, because everyone knows Swordlol speaks for every American ever. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-rolleyes010.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

[Fri]

:smallannoyed: Yes, because everyone knows Swordlol speaks for every American ever. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-rolleyes010.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

By they, I refer to the close minded americans of course :smalltongue: . Hey, you notice that I didn't say 'american' even once in my sentence, right :smallbiggrin:?

[kpenguin]

And they wonder why the rest of the world don't like them :smallsigh:

That might actually be a bit more incendiary than the scrubbed... :smalltongue:

[SoD]

You call her "little" so I'm somewhat curious about the age difference. Honestly, that's more likely to raise eyebrows than a familial tie because it's more noticeable to an outside observer.

From the way the OP was talking, there she's old enough. I mean, if you have a brother who was born before you, he's still your 'little' brother, weather he's a year younger or twenty years younger.

And also, on the subject of cousin/cousin relations, I think of it the same way that I think of gay people. Not for me, but I don't judge people who are because of it. My girlfriend, in fact, her parents are first cousins. And Irish. Not that that has anything to do with the conversation. Do I think any less of them, or her, for it? No. They seem perfectly happy together. Who am I to judge them?

[Telonius]

EDIT: How does she feel about your role playing hobby? :smallsmile:

So the fact that they're cousins wouldn't prevent something, but his D&D habit would? :smallbiggrin:

[Faulty]

So the fact that they're cousins wouldn't prevent something, but his D&D habit would? :smallbiggrin:

One must get his or her priorities straight.

[mangosta71]

So the fact that they're cousins wouldn't prevent something, but his D&D habit would? :smallbiggrin:

If she's hot and plays D&D, almost anything can be forgiven. :smalltongue:

[The Rose Dragon]

If she's hot and plays D&D, almost anything can be forgiven. :smalltongue:

But obviously your avatar is the Scarlet Throne, so wouldn't it be better if she played Exalted?

I still think it's a bit creepy, for personal reasons. The OP can PM me to ask why, if he wants to.

[mangosta71]

But obviously your avatar is the Scarlet Throne, so wouldn't it be better if she played Exalted?

My avatar for this week is Tiamat, the evil goddess of chromatic dragons in D&D...

[The Rose Dragon]

My avatar for this week is Tiamat, the evil goddess of chromatic dragons in D&D...

You mean you're not the Scarlet Throne (http://meluran.deviantart.com/art/The-Scarlet-Throne-30703195)?

OK, so the order of heads is kinda wrong, but they can move around while the Scarlet Empress sits on the throne.

[Tequila Sunrise]

So the fact that they're cousins wouldn't prevent something, but his D&D habit would? :smallbiggrin:
Ya never know, she could be a cousin-kissin'-role-playin'-phobic gal. Or she might be a sword-swingin'-spell-slingin'-kobold-slayin'-vixen. Here's to you, Kobold_Love! :smallwink:





:smallfrown: What, did I say something wrong?

[SoD]

Ya never know, she could be a cousin-kissin'-role-playin'-phobic gal. Or she might be a sword-swingin'-spell-slingin'-kobold-slayin'-vixen. Here's to you, Kobold_Love! :smallwink:





:smallfrown: What, did I say something wrong?

And the question springing to my mind is; what do Kobolds think of cousin/cousin relationships?

[Johel]

And the question springing to my mind is; what do Kobolds think of cousin/cousin relationships?

They don't care. :smallbiggrin:
They'll go for the ones who got the shinest scales and assume that arsh natural selection will take care of any genetic defect before the offspring even reach sexual maturity.

[Coidzor]

They don't care. :smallbiggrin:
They'll go for the ones who got the shinest scales and assume that arsh natural selection will take care of any genetic defect before the offspring even reach sexual maturity.

I don't think they even can really notice due to their nesting structure.

[Lyndworm]

They don't care. :smallbiggrin:
They'll go for the ones who got the shinest scales and assume that arsh natural selection will take care of any genetic defect before the offspring even reach sexual maturity.

Actually, according to both Races of the Dragon and the Book of Erotic Fantasy (3rd party), Kobolds care not for shiny scales. They prize intelligence, physical prowess, and magical ability above all else. They could be described as very practical in their views; they don't care about affection or handsomeness in the slightest, only what would be best for the next generation. Their "day in the life"-type segment in Races of the Dragon actually starts off with a Kobold Sorceress considering mating with one of her companions.

As for my personal views on the subject, I have very few. I'm not worried about the blood aspect unless your family has a serious history of inbreeding already. Other than that, it comes down to morality, and I'm not exactly a moral authority. I think that it's sort of weird for cousins to grow from children to lovers, but if you only see each other a few times a year or the like, then I see nothing wrong with it. It's about mixing intimacies (the closeness of a brother should probably not mix with the intimacies of a husband, for instance) for me, and even then I think of myself as "lenient", I suppose.

Truly, I have little to say on the matter. At the risk of sounding corny, just do as your heart suggests and your brain condones. If it seems wrong to you, don't do it. If it doesn't seem wrong to you, answer a few questions for yourself.

Does it hurt somebody, mentally or physically?
Could it reasonably stop other people from being happy?
Could it ruin your life, or the life of somebody else?

These questions can help you decide pretty much everything in your life. If the answer to any of these questions is "Yes," then you should think it over again and decide from there whether or not it's worth it. If the answer to all of these questions is "No," then do what makes you happy.

[Pika...]

And the question springing to my mind is; what do Kobolds think of cousin/cousin relationships?


(Skip to Family Bonds if you want)


This selfless behavior carries over into everyday life.
Expansion of the tribe is more important than personal
accomplishments, and any personal accomplishments
should advance the tribe. Success of the tribe is personal
success.
It is only through vast population, however, that a tribe
can hope to thrive and become wealthy. So, kobolds shamelessly
reproduce. Impersonal mating is commonplace, with
females choosing mates by practical measures instead of
infl uences such as love or lust. While kobolds do form bonding
relationships, the idea of sexual monogamy is alien to
them. Kobolds desire to spread their kind everywhere, and
the inability of one warren to contain a tribe’s population
is celebrated. Part of the old tribe breaks off to expand into
new territory.
Frequent overcrowding in their lairs has permanently
erased the concept of privacy from kobolds’ lives. Sleeping
quarters are shared, with children having the least
privacy. In most tribes (except for newly split-off groups),
not enough room exists to comfortably accommodate
everyone, and only the hardest-working members of a
tribe are afforded any degree of personal space.
Lack of privacy has also resulted in the absence of modesty.
Kobolds are not self-conscious about nudity, whether
in the presence of the same or the opposite sex. They still
wear clothing for protection and decoration, but clothing
is not seen as essential.
Living in such close quarters means confl ict is always
a possibility. Kobolds don’t hide their feelings, instead
quarreling openly when they need to. When emotions run
high, kobolds express themselves immediately and without
holding back. Despite the intensity of such displays, they
rarely turn lethal because the proximity of other kobolds
prevents such interactions from taking place discreetly.
In this way, all problems are dealt with before they can
fester and grow.
Kobolds aren’t as forgiving of other races. They have
long memories and are not quick to pardon, nurturing
hatred like a favorite child groomed for a specifi c purpose.
Most kobolds wait until their enemy has been brought
low by circumstance—or better still, by clandestine
kobold interference—before delivering a decisive and
premeditated reprisal. In short, kobolds love revenge.
Roleplaying Application: Realizing that free will and
instinct fi ght for dominance in every kobold is perhaps the
most important step in understanding the race’s psychology.
Where does your kobold character fall between those
extremes? Do you focus less on tribal preservation and
more on yourself? Is your demeanor quiet and introspective,
or do you fl aunt your dragon heritage? How strong
is your sense of duty and work ethic when away from the
tribe? Do you pursue your own interests at the expense of
others? Does the intimacy of living in close quarters appeal
to you, or are you happier when afforded some space? How
do you behave when living among nonkobolds? Do you
respect their standards of privacy, or are you oblivious to
their need for solitude? How do you express your emotions
to nonkobolds?


LOVE
Kobolds put great energy and care into fostering kobold
wyrmlings. Few experiences are more gratifying to an
adult kobold than being treated as a model for the life of
a young kobold.
Kobold adults go out of their way to encourage juveniles
who show promise, to steep them in the traditions of kobold
culture. Kobolds teach using simple instruction and swift
punishment in case of error or failure. Punishment is often
physical in nature, though usually geared toward causing
instructive pain rather than injury.
Next to children, kobolds love work—and by natural
extension, their tribe—more than anything else. For
a kobold, work defi nes life, fi lling her with a sense of
belonging and purpose. Even young kobolds exhibit this
feeling as they start to mimic working adults early in their
lives. A kobold who does not lend a hand is useless and
threatened with exile.
Kobolds only rarely engage in any activity resembling
romantic love. Most fi nd their communal life among tribe
members satisfying enough. A kobold can live her whole
life without forming a bond to any sort of signifi cant other.
This doesn’t mean that kobolds are asexual. They mate
regularly. The impulse for doing so, however, is mostly
instinct tempered with a sense of duty. All kobolds desire
to keep their tribe fortifi ed with as many healthy young
as can be fed and housed.
Kobolds who form an emotional attachment to another
kobold are drawn to that one out of mutual respect and
increased productivity. The potential partners often meet
because of having to work with one another, and then
fi nd that they work better jointly than they did alone. As
such, kobolds who don’t work together only rarely become
romantically involved.
Kobolds who are attached in this manner take an oath
to serve and care for one another, each becoming the
other’s “chosen one.” The would-be couple’s all-watcher
(see Society and Culture, below) must approve the match,
and with that done, a priest witnesses the oaths and blesses
the joining. Such unions are rarely monogamous, because
both sexes are still compelled by mating instincts and are
likely to succumb to those infl uences if separated from
one another for long. Since sex itself has little emotional
value to kobolds, these extramarital liaisons create no
friction between couples.
Couples who bond together in this way are provided with
personal living quarters if their status and contributions
to the tribe merit such a privilege. Usually, the all-watcher
allocates an area that the couple must then excavate.


FAMILY BONDS
Since most females mate many times and with many
partners to ensure fertilization, no one devotes any effort
to monitoring which couplings are responsible for which
eggs. Kobolds instinctively know their blood relatives
by subtle scent and avoid mating with them, since such
unions are sterile. To further blur the lines of family, all
kobold females lay their eggs in one area of the tribe’s lair,
resuming their duties immediately after laying.
Specifi c individuals, known as fosterers, are responsible
for tending and warming eggs. Many of these kobolds are
also strong warriors, so that they can guard the eggs and
young effectively.
Wyrmling kobolds are initially named and cared for
by the fosterers. When they can move nimbly and feed
themselves (at the age of eight to twelve months), young
kobolds enter tribal life and become the responsibility of
all adults. Young are given minor responsibilities, nurturing
their work ethic and self-esteem.

[mikeejimbo]

(Skip to Family Bonds if you want)


How close does the blood relationship have to be? Third cousins, for example, are about as related as you and I are.

[Johel]

How close does the blood relationship have to be? Third cousins, for example, are about as related as you and I are.

You know, that's becoming creepy, here.
Unless you're a biologist, in which case creepiness is an alien concept, overwritten by curiosity.

[Moff Chumley]

I see a pattern in your threads.

See, THIS is where we see a significant difference from Rutsy. Your observation requires attention to detail, at least a little, which implies at least a drop of wisdom, which is something dear Rutskarn lacks to the point of awesome.

[mikeejimbo]

You know, that's becoming creepy, here.
Unless you're a biologist, in which case creepiness is an alien concept, overwritten by curiosity.

I just mean in the case of the kobolds, what do they consider blood relatives? If they went as far as, say, 6th cousins, then they probably wouldn't be able to find many other kobolds with whom to breed. I mention 3rd cousins because of how far apart they are.

Of course, that's assuming kobold biology is a lot like human biology, and it's not. I don't know how reptiles work quite as well as mammals, so for all I know it could be worse for them to breed with 3rd cousins than it would be for humans. Or maybe better - I do know there's a breed of peacock that prefers to mate with cousins. (Though possibly, it's just kinky like that.)

Of course, I've read fanfiction before, so very little "squicks" me out.

[Grey Paladin]

As long as you do not harm anyone else, do whatever you want.

If you do harm anyone else, you will be held responsible.

[Coidzor]

Of course, I've read fanfiction before, so very little "squicks" me out.

DM's call, definitely clutch-mates and immediate antecedents are right out.

And it's more, been exposed to fanfiction, kept on reading fanfiction, and even sought out more of it... :smalltongue:

[AKA_Bait]

I'm going to chime in with one comment that is walking the line on forum rules and hope that it is vague enough not to get me into trouble. Here goes...

If you are a religious person you may want to consider how your religion views 'kissing cousins' and how it defines incest. Some religions define it at first cousin or second cousin and will not marry people with those relations or closer (the ones I'm aware of frown on premarital sex in general so relationships before marriage aren't worth considering). Even if you aren't religious, but other members of your family are, you may want to take that into account.

::crosses fingers::

Also, as for genetics, I tend to go with the same rules as for dogs as for people. Mutts tend to be smarter and healthier in my experience. I'm not sure if there is much of a difference between someone being in your genetic ethnic group and being a first or second cousin for that though.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

I just want to say that I am all for kissing cousins...

-just so long as none of them are my own. :smallbiggrin:

That is all.

[Coidzor]

On a certain level I both envy and pity those who actually come to any kind of moral quandrary on the subject.

On the one hand, it makes their relationships with their cousins seem a lot more interesting and probably make for good story fodder to actually have had that subtext there. Also, would've added an interesting dimension to family reunions rather than barely being able to keep track of who these bloody people are. Plus, it means that your relatives are easier on the eyes and that means that the odds are in favor of y'know, you, personally, being more physically attractive as well. Which is always good to know, I imagine, being an attractive scion of an attractive house.

On the other hand, it's a bit awkward considering most family dynamics, which would make it risky if anyone even found out that one cousin found another cousin attractive in the slightest, much less actually tried or desired to move on said attraction.

[Sir_Norbert]

Heh, thank you Coidzor.

As for me, I'm from England, so I grew up seeing cousin relationships as acceptable but unusual -- can't think of any among the people I know. Then when I was 21 one of my cousins got married and lots of family came to the wedding; my mother is one of seven and they're quite widely scattered. One of those present was my first cousin Celine whom I hadn't met since she was a little child, but now she was -- as TV Tropes would say -- all grown up, and damn she was gorgeous. Even our other family members noticed how much we were dancing together :) but it didn't lead to anything beyond that. However, if it had led to a relationship I wouldn't have seen anything wrong with that. So if you and your cousin end up having a relationship, good luck to you is what I say.

As for the age difference, I don't see a problem with that either. Seventeen is old enough to make your own decisions about whom you want to date, and it's a fact that many women are attracted to older men, and many men to younger women. If there's a large difference in maturity, that will be a problem, but since I don't know her -- there are plenty of 17-year-olds who are more mature than plenty of 20-year-olds. If you're going to take things slowly then that doesn't matter so much, she'll have plenty of time to grow up.

Finally, someone asked about the origin of the phrase "kissing cousins". It means distant relatives who are familiar enough to be greeted with a kiss. It does not originally having anything to do with kissing in a relationship sense or mean "distant enough to be marrigeable", nor does it mean "cousins who are in a relationship"; these are both misunderstandings of the phrase, though the latter may be a deliberate or jocular reapplication.

[Myrmex]

There are a couple problems with this. One is the social one of having sexual relations with a relative in the United States. Despite how openminded Playgrounders appear to be, the real world is far more cruel. The other is the risk of genetic defects by pairing of deleterious recessive alleles. If you come from a family with a history of inbreeding, then another generation of inbreeding will take you closer to having offspring with an abundance of defects. You will also be encouraging a culture that supports inbreeding, which in turn will lead to further inbreeding.

Those are really the only two concerns I would have, though if I was going to bang my cousins, I'd be more worried about what other people thought than accidentally having two-headed kids. Well, that, and I find the idea of incest a bit repulsive, but what adults decide to do on their own time is none of my business.


Regarding attractiveness and relatives:
There's a major gene group that codes for a lot of your active immune system called the MHC complex, which is present in all mammals. It is highly specific to individuals, and is responsible for both the production of novel and unique proteins.

It turns out that the proteins that are produced by the system can be detected by humans, in the form of smells. Women rate men that they have never seen before, only smelled, as more attractive the further apart they are in MHC similarity. The same thing occurs in other mammals, where females seek out males that have different MHCs than they do.

In mice, pregnant females seek out companionship with males of similar MHCs, since that means they are more likely to be related to each other, which reduces the chance of infanticide by strange males. Males benefit from killing pups that aren't theirs because as long as they're being nursed, their mother is not ovulating, and thus not receptive to reproduction.

There have been hypotheses that a similar system functions in humans. The pill has actually been blamed for high divorce rates, since the pill mimics a pregnancy hormone and suppresses ovulation. However, along with suppression of ovulation, come a wide range of effects from pseudo-pregnancy, including reports of women changing preference in their partners' MHC. I know when my gf went on the pill, besides getting moody and crazy, she also said she "stopped smelling me."

[Shikton]

I'm late, but hey, got a little song regarding the OP, performed by a Norwegian boyband parody:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDSCDQmSt0Y

Thought it'd fit in here =P

[Coidzor]

There have been hypotheses that a similar system functions in humans. The pill has actually been blamed for high divorce rates, since the pill mimics a pregnancy hormone and suppresses ovulation. However, along with suppression of ovulation, come a wide range of effects from pseudo-pregnancy, including reports of women changing preference in their partners' MHC. I know when my gf went on the pill, besides getting moody and crazy, she also said she "stopped smelling me."

Yeah, this was something my ex and I experienced. Specifically she complained that I never quite smelled like I did when she first met me anymore, and I said, well, that's a side effect of the birth control, honey. Perhaps if I had encouraged her to stop taking it at the first signs of other complications I'd be engaged right now. Hmm. Meh. Too dark to think about, really.

[Myrmex]

Yeah, this was something my ex and I experienced. Specifically she complained that I never quite smelled like I did when she first met me anymore, and I said, well, that's a side effect of the birth control, honey. Perhaps if I had encouraged her to stop taking it at the first signs of other complications I'd be engaged right now. Hmm. Meh. Too dark to think about, really.

Ooh, rough. Sorry to hear that, man. My girlfriend got an IUD- interuterine device. It's this thing that hangs out inside her uterus and coats it with copper ions, which kill sperm. I think it has the lowest rate of failure of any contraceptive, or second lowest.

wikipage:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IUD

[Serpentine]

Implanon (which I have) is better - better than surgical sterilisation, even :smallbiggrin:

[Moofin Bard]

You know most royal families of England and generally all over are in-breeders.

Also, I have a really hot cousin but I'd never think of banging him.

But the cousin of my cousin is another story. And it doesn't count because we're not related by blood.

[Recaiden]

Implanon (which I have) is better - better than surgical sterilisation, even :smallbiggrin:

I fins the idea of having something implanted in your arm kind of odd. But logically I find it better than most other options. :smallconfused:

[Coidzor]

IUD...copper ions...wikipage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IUD

... I always knew I loved copper. Cu, Burlew Bless you.

...Kinda wiggy, that's more successful than the surgical sterilization. I guess this is compared with the ones that actually remove said structures/organs though.
I fins the idea of having something implanted in your arm kind of odd. But logically I find it better than most other options. :smallconfused:

It makes me think of cyborgs and is therefore twice as awesome.


But the cousin of my cousin is another story. And it doesn't count because we're not related by blood.

I wonder if I'll ever meet one of those...