Thoughts on the Snarl and Kraagor *spoiler*

[Turkish Delight]

A couple of curious things we know about the status of the Snarl at the moment:

1) There are now several rifts that have been torn open, the most menacing one being above Azure City. To date, the Snarl has not made an appearance at any of them.

2) V's class feature had a chance to look into the Rift at close range. The result was it's eyes turning a different shade, to match the rift, and the bird almost seeming...mesmerized. 'So beautiful. But I...I don't understand' or something to that effect.

In short, there seems to be some great revelation building up about the Snarl. My initial thought would be to think that it may have achieved sentience. Maybe it hasn't poked it's world-devouring tentacles free of the rift because it no longer feels the urge to unthinkingly destroy everything? Or it could be intelligence of a more malignant sort and the Snarl is simply biding it's time and waiting patiently for the other seals to be removed.

Possibly.

But this also led to another thought. One of the Order of the Scribble is considered to have died during the last sealing; Kraagor, the Dwarf Barbarian. What do we see as the last sign of him? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html) He's charging the rift, the Snarl claw is emerging, and Soon is crying for Girard to seal the rift regardless.

In other words, he isn't seen being killed, necessarily. He's just seen being sealed into the rift, where he was then presumably sent to oblivion by the Snarl.

The menacing claw emerging from the rift would seem to deny it...but is it possible Kraagor is still alive? If the Snarl isn't now as much of a mindless destroyer as it once was, is it possible that it didn't finish him off?

Of course, how one could survive trapped in the rift without food or water or anything else at all for so long even if the Snarl spared you is another question. But I do find the ambiguity with which Kraagor's last moments are depicted interesting.

[Larkspur]

SoDPerhaps he's hanging out with the chicken and the goblin cleric.

I hope someone had a deck of cards, or that could be a dull wait...

[Teddy]

Perhaps the spell has some sort of unexpected effects on living creatures since the statue managed to get it self in place before Girard made his comment about what would happen (which should be right after the battle).

[Smiling Knight]

Kraagor having killed the Snarl already would be the greatest anti-climax ever.

[multilis]

Kraggor:Snarl as O-Chul:MiTD?

Snarl is a "good man"?

Can we really trust baby goblin killing monsters for the straight goods about the Snarl?

Is the true threat of Snarl that his "prison" is really nicer than the "real world" and the gates are really to keep people in rather than Snarl out?

;-)

[Cracklord]

Or is Kragor in his own version of Valhalla, forever fighting the greatest monstrosity ever known, and the Snarl has not come out because he won't let it?
But I like the 'Kragor has already killed it' angle.

[Snake-Aes]

Well, there are a few details here

1) The Snarl is sentient since it's very first nanossecond of existence. And it only feels hate.
2) Being a being of pure hate and destruction, the only thing it does is to destroy.

If the snarl attacked Kraagor(and it did), kraagor's gone. poof. kaput.

Giving the snarl any kind of reasoning capacity will be very hard to explain without throwing a War of the Worlds Deus Ex.

[Turkish Delight]

Well, there are a few details here

1) The Snarl is sentient since it's very first nanossecond of existence. And it only feels hate.

It feels hate, yes. And it grew more intelligent, yes. But that doesn't necessarily mean that it has any real understanding. It doesn't mean it's sentient.

It could be that, if it didn't want to rip you to pieces and eat you, it would be a fine conversationalist. Or it could be that it's simply animal-like in intelligence, an unthinking force of destruction driven on only by instinct. To me, the implication seems to be towards the latter, but who knows what changes so many years of imprisonment might have caused?


2) Being a being of pure hate and destruction, the only thing it does is to destroy.

Previously, certainly. Now? It hasn't poked so much as a tentacle free from the rift. Why? By appearances, it made several such attacks previously. And have we seen any previous hints that the Snarl was capable of mesmerizing people/things until Roy's class feature? Something is different about either the Snarl or the rift.


If the snarl attacked Kraagor(and it did), kraagor's gone. poof. kaput.

Did it? We don't see it. We see Kraagor charging the Rift. We see Soon ordering the Rift sealed. Nothing else. You're making an assumption, not stating a fact.

Odds are heavily inclined towards Kraagor being dead. That does not make it a fact, merely a heavily supported supposition.

Your post, summed up, is basically a long 'no.' That's fine, put it doesn't make for very interesting arguing if nearly all the things you mention were already considered in the first post. I'm perfectly aware of what we have been told the Snarl is. I'm also perfectly aware Kraagor's fate is most likely non-existence. I'm pointing out things which suggest those two things might not be as set in stone as we think.

[Snake-Aes]

It feels hate, yes. And it grew more intelligent, yes. But that doesn't necessarily mean that it has any real understanding. It doesn't mean it's sentient.

It could be that, if it didn't want to rip you to pieces and eat you, it would be a fine conversationalist. Or it could be that it's simply animal-like in intelligence, an unthinking force of destruction driven on only by instinct. To me, the implication seems to be towards the latter, but who knows what changes so many years of imprisonment might have caused?



Previously, certainly. Now? It hasn't poked so much as a tentacle free from the rift. Why? By appearances, it made several such attacks previously. And have we seen any previous hints that the Snarl was capable of mesmerizing people/things until Roy's class feature? Something is different about either the Snarl or the rift.



Did it? We don't see it. We see Kraagor charging the Rift. We see Soon ordering the Rift sealed. Nothing else. You're making an assumption, not stating a fact.

Odds are heavily inclined towards Kraagor being dead. That does not make it a fact, merely a heavily supported supposition.

Your post, summed up, is basically a long 'no.' That's fine, put it doesn't make for very interesting arguing if nearly all the things you mention were already considered in the first post. I'm perfectly aware of what we have been told the Snarl is. I'm also perfectly aware Kraagor's fate is most likely non-existence. I'm pointing out things which suggest those two things might not be as set in stone as we think.

You know ravens are attracted by shiny stuff, right? For now you can't just say it mesmerized him more than it felt itself mesmerized by the colors. It's just too dubious for now.

And yes, my post is just a windy "no". So far there has yet to be satisfying evidence that the Snarl itself changed. The only anomaly so far is the fact it didn't touch Azure City, but we don't know about Lirian or Dorukan's rifts, nor the influence of the gates once all were working.

[Turkish Delight]

You know ravens are attracted by shiny stuff, right? For now you can't just say it mesmerized him more than it felt itself mesmerized by the colors. It's just too dubious for now.

Nothing is too dubious for endless speculation! Consider:

1) All the past accounts describe the Snarl reaching out and consuming people/things nearby. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0545.html) Despite the rather massive rift above Azure City, we haven't seen so much as a tentacle. This is suspicious.

Redcloak here makes the conjecture that the other gates may be preventing it from sensing the rift, but this makes very little sense. Unless all of the rifts past were sealed simultaneously, which is very, very unlikely, the claw was very clearly seen coming out of the rift near Kraagor, which was heavily implied to be either the last or one of the last rifts to be sealed. As such, the Snarl was making an appearance when a number of other seals were in place, likely more than are in place right now.

In other words, the rifts and the seals are likely not the explanation. It seems very likely the Snarl's behavior itself has changed in some way.

2) The raven finally gets to do what no one else we know of has done; get up close and get a good look inside the rift. It's response is to have a change in eye color and a statement which implies that it is somehow transfixed. It doesn't follow through with it's orders to chuck the phylactery in; it stops to hover and stare.

Could this just be 'bird distracted by shiny things', and the eye shift is simply the light of the rift shining off it's eyes? Possibly. But that's a far less satisfying and interesting interpretation than that there is some property of the rift...or the Snarl...that resulted in the raven being mesmerized.

We have no proof except the Law of Conservation of Detail (why show the raven having such a reaction in both behavior and eye color, going beyond simply 'so beautiful' to 'I...I don't understand', if it's just going to be a meaningless repeat of a Celia gag used a long time before (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0315.html)?), but in a web comic that seems to have a great fondness for planting little Chekhov's guns all over the place, it would be foolish to simply disregard the hints and suggestions that seem to be there.

[David Argall]

Now we should note that just as we can doubt Redcloak's version of the crayon in SoD, Shojo's version is subject to question. We do not see the obvious reasons to be biased as we do with Redcloak, but anything mortal is subject to error, and we can't assume Shojo wasn't wrong in part or all.

One idea would be that the Snarl is not particularly hostile at all. It was just born when the god first noticed it, and it simply did not know its own strength, destroying the world and some gods pretty much by accident. The gods had no way to determine the Snarl's motives and rather naturally assumed it was hostile. It in fact was not, and has been learning to be more delicate ever since.
The idea has some problems. The Snarl is about 1500 years old, and has learned manners only within the last 50? It seems a stretch, but it's not impossible.

[factotum]

Perhaps the spell has some sort of unexpected effects on living creatures since the statue managed to get it self in place before Girard made his comment about what would happen (which should be right after the battle).

Er, what do you mean by that? Girard's comment is responding to the "your sacrifice will not be forgotten" statement, and he clearly means that Kraagor's sacrifice--along with everything else to do with the Snarl and the rifts--will be forgotten. After all, that's entirely what the Order of the Scribble were fighting for--to erase any knowledge of the rifts so that people wouldn't try to use them for evil.

[Teddy]

Er, what do you mean by that? Girard's comment is responding to the "your sacrifice will not be forgotten" statement, and he clearly means that Kraagor's sacrifice--along with everything else to do with the Snarl and the rifts--will be forgotten. After all, that's entirely what the Order of the Scribble were fighting for--to erase any knowledge of the rifts so that people wouldn't try to use them for evil.

Actually, I never thought of it that way, and it seems to make more sense, but then why did he adress that comment to Soon with that annoyed look?

[David Argall]

Actually, I never thought of it that way, and it seems to make more sense, but then why did he adress that comment to Soon with that annoyed look?

Presumably the idea of keeping the gates secret, and thus all about their adventures secret as well, was Soon's, and Girard may well have been very reluctant to accept it.

[Teddy]

Presumably the idea of keeping the gates secret, and thus all about their adventures secret as well, was Soon's, and Girard may well have been very reluctant to accept it.

Girard is an illusionist. Why would he be reluctant to keep something secret from common knowledge? Isn't that what illusions are ment for?

[Zanaril]

One idea would be that the Snarl is not particularly hostile at all. It was just born when the god first noticed it, and it simply did not know its own strength, destroying the world and some gods pretty much by accident. The gods had no way to determine the Snarl's motives and rather naturally assumed it was hostile. It in fact was not, and has been learning to be more delicate ever since.
The idea has some problems. The Snarl is about 1500 years old, and has learned manners only within the last 50? It seems a stretch, but it's not impossible.

Anyone remember that Futurama episode where they get kidnapped by that giant alien the Star Trek team think is a god, but it turns out just to be a teenager treating them as action figures? Maybe the Snarl pulls things into the rift because it wants someone to play with. :smalltongue:

[Aris Katsaris]

Girard is an illusionist. Why would he be reluctant to keep something secret from common knowledge?

That's not really a good argument. It's like saying "Haley is a thief. Why would she be reluctant to having all her treasure lost. Isn't that what thiefing is about, making people lose treasure?"


Redcloak here makes the conjecture that the other gates may be preventing it from sensing the rift, but this makes very little sense. Unless all of the rifts past were sealed simultaneously, which is very, very unlikely, the claw was very clearly seen coming out of the rift near Kraagor, which was heavily implied to be either the last or one of the last rifts to be sealed.

You're misremembering the exact narration. The *sealing* of the rifts (via the spell Soon ordered Durokan to cast) is a different thing from the *gates*, which prevent the rift to be reopened.

The Kraagor's gate was the last to be sealed -- but at that time, as far as we know, NONE of the gates had been constructed.

Redcloak's theory may be wrong, and is most likely is (as it's not a particularly interesting one), but it's not contradicted by Kraagor's death.

[lothos]

When I first read strip 276 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html), I assumed that the spell that Dorurkan and/or Lirian cast had turned Kraagor to stone, or possibly some combination effect of the spell, rift and/or snarl had turned him to stone.

Later when I posted this to another thread, several people said "no, that's just a statue placed there by his friends later" so I'm clearly in the minority, but my thinking is that he was turned to stone. After all, if the order of the scribble wanted to keep the rifts secret, why build a statue there ? I mean you could argue that they could make the statue invisible later or something, or hide it, but surely that defeats the purpose of making it ?

So my feeling is that Kaargor isn't fighting the snarl inside the rift, or merged with it or anything like that, because he was turned to stone when the spell was cast.

The Raven's translated comments in strip 659 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0659.html) are very interesting.... Rich seems to avoid "red herrings" in this strip, at least not ones that are not quickly revealed and have some comic effect. Purely based on the style of the comic, I suspect that there is a very deep significance to what the bird said. I have no real idea what the significance is. I've seen comments saying that it's relating the Snarl to MitD, because of something from start of darkness:

When the circus audience see it, they find it oddly fascinating and find it hard not to look. This might just be a comment on MitD being kind of like a road crash you can't look away from, but some have said it's evidence that MitD is a part of the Snarl. I don't buy this myself though as it doesn't fit MitD being part of species and not being a monster Rich made up.


(snip)
Redcloak here makes the conjecture that the other gates may be preventing it from sensing the rift, but this makes very little sense. Unless all of the rifts past were sealed simultaneously, which is very, very unlikely, the claw was very clearly seen coming out of the rift near Kraagor, which was heavily implied to be either the last or one of the last rifts to be sealed. As such, the Snarl was making an appearance when a number of other seals were in place, likely more than are in place right now.

In other words, the rifts and the seals are likely not the explanation. It seems very likely the Snarl's behavior itself has changed in some way.


This may be the case, but I believe that the gates were not actually in place when Kraagor was killed (or turned to stone). In strip 276 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html), the panel after Kraagor is out of the picture, the text says:

"With the Rifts Sealed, Lirian and Dorukan began intense magical research into a way to "lock" them. In time they developed a design for a mystic gate that would buttress the fabric of reality around each rift and keep it from tearing further."


2) The raven finally gets to do what no one else we know of has done; get up close and get a good look inside the rift. It's response is to have a change in eye color and a statement which implies that it is somehow transfixed. It doesn't follow through with it's orders to chuck the phylactery in; it stops to hover and stare.

Could this just be 'bird distracted by shiny things', and the eye shift is simply the light of the rift shining off it's eyes? Possibly. But that's a far less satisfying and interesting interpretation than that there is some property of the rift...or the Snarl...that resulted in the raven being mesmerized.

We have no proof except the Law of Conservation of Detail (why show the raven having such a reaction in both behavior and eye color, going beyond simply 'so beautiful' to 'I...I don't understand', if it's just going to be a meaningless repeat of a Celia gag used a long time before (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0315.html)?), but in a web comic that seems to have a great fondness for planting little Chekhov's guns all over the place, it would be foolish to simply disregard the hints and suggestions that seem to be there.

I completely agree with this, there just has to be a really deep significance here. Can't wait to find out what it is.

[Ancalagon]

So, if they had placed the statue anywhere and not "where the rift is supposed to be secret" you'd be fine with the "he died/got unmade and his friends placed a statue"-theory?

[Mant]

Girard is an illusionist. Why would he be reluctant to keep something secret from common knowledge? Isn't that what illusions are ment for?

No, they are not.

[Haven]

May I just say, the Snarl being already dead would be an epic plot twist. Especially in regards to Redcloak's whole character arc throughout SoD. "All that...for nothing?" Followed up by this (http://gigaville.com/comic.php?id=118).

[Snake-Aes]

Actually, I never thought of it that way, and it seems to make more sense, but then why did he adress that comment to Soon with that annoyed look?
Suppose your group goes through heaven and hell to seal an eldritch abomination away, and loses one of your team to it permanently. You know that the best way to keep people away from messing with such monster is by keeping it a secret.

Saying "your sacrifice will not be forgotten" is pretty much what *won't* happen.

We are hinted that he is very charismatic, which means he's used to be in the spotlight. He's not the sort of guy that would be very happy with that situation.

[factotum]

After all, if the order of the scribble wanted to keep the rifts secret, why build a statue there ? I mean you could argue that they could make the statue invisible later or something, or hide it, but surely that defeats the purpose of making it ?


Well, firstly, the statue is just a grave marker to all intents and purposes--how would anyone finding it know there's any difference between it and any other grave marker? Secondly, in order for them to create the statue in the first place must have taken some time, so we have no idea of WHERE that statue is--it could be miles from the nearest rift. Thirdly, it's pretty easy to fix someone being turned to stone in the D&D universe--Stone to Flesh would do the job just fine, and it's not a high-level spell. Finally, if the statue is Kraagor, it's handy that the effect that turned him to stone also gave him a nice plinth to stand on, isn't it?

[Teddy]

That's not really a good argument. It's like saying "Haley is a thief. Why would she be reluctant to having all her treasure lost. Isn't that what thiefing is about, making people lose treasure?"

Perhaps not, but your likeness isn't really that good either. Stealing even more rather than losing treasure, but that just screws the entire example up...

Girard is an illusionist, he keeps knowledge away from people all the time. Why should just he be the one who objects? I admit that this is the most likely theory, but there are some holes in it I find most disturbing...


Suppose your group goes through heaven and hell to seal an eldritch abomination away, and loses one of your team to it permanently. You know that the best way to keep people away from messing with such monster is by keeping it a secret.

Saying "your sacrifice will not be forgotten" is pretty much what *won't* happen.

We are hinted that he is very charismatic, which means he's used to be in the spotlight. He's not the sort of guy that would be very happy with that situation.

But why be annoyed with Soon? If it was the Snarl that kill Kragor, then it wouldn't be his fault.

[Snake-Aes]

But why be annoyed with Soon? If it was the Snarl that kill Kragor, then it wouldn't be his fault.

It's not about the snarl. It's about keeping it all a secret. His "That's exactly what's gonna happen" snarky remark is about Soon's "Your sacrifice will not be forgotten"... It will be forgotten. It's supposed to. He's not happy with that.

[lothos]

Well, firstly, the statue is just a grave marker to all intents and purposes--how would anyone finding it know there's any difference between it and any other grave marker? Secondly, in order for them to create the statue in the first place must have taken some time, so we have no idea of WHERE that statue is--it could be miles from the nearest rift. Thirdly, it's pretty easy to fix someone being turned to stone in the D&D universe--Stone to Flesh would do the job just fine, and it's not a high-level spell. Finally, if the statue is Kraagor, it's handy that the effect that turned him to stone also gave him a nice plinth to stand on, isn't it?

OK, the plinth doesn't fit well, unless there is a spell I don't know about called "flesh to stone and add a plinth underneath you" :-)

*IF* it is Kraagor rather than a statue, I really don't think it's flesh to stone... why would anyone in the order of the scribble would cast this on him ? It doesn't make sense if they did this in isolation. If they had turned him to stone, one would assume it was an accidental side effect of something they were compelled to do and couldn't reverse safely.... like sealing a rift......

I don't know, the plinth doesn't quite fit, I agree with that. They could have put the plinth under him ? Would seem a bit creepy really, if they could move him, perhaps they could reverse it.

I know I'm in the minority anyway.....

[Armitage]

After all, if the order of the scribble wanted to keep the rifts secret, why build a statue there ?
AFAIR it wasn't the Order of the Scribble that wanted to remove all knowledge of the rifts, it was the Sapphire Guard (Soons boys'n gals) that destroyed every hint.
Which means it happened quite some time after the closing of the rifts, as it certainly took Soon a few years to build the Guard.

[Teddy]

It's not about the snarl. It's about keeping it all a secret. His "That's exactly what's gonna happen" snarky remark is about Soon's "Your sacrifice will not be forgotten"... It will be forgotten. It's supposed to. He's not happy with that.

That requires the presumption that it was Soon that drove the question. It's not entirely unlikely (actually, it's rather likely that he was a part of it), but he must have been rather persuasive to get at least some of the other party members to agree on that if drove it alone...

And it wasn't Soon that said "Your sacrifice will not be forgotten", but Lirian.

[Eerie]

Here is my crazy version. It is all a great divine conspiracy. Snarl was not created by the deities, he didn`t destroy the first universe, and he is actually benevolent. The gods imprisoned him so they could have free reign.

[Snake-Aes]

That requires the presumption that it was Soon that drove the question. It's not entirely unlikely (actually, it's rather likely that he was a part of it), but he must have been rather persuasive to get at least some of the other party members to agree on that if drove it alone...

And it wasn't Soon that said "Your sacrifice will not be forgotten", but Lirian.

Ah, true, but that doesn't change much. To be frank i'm trying to understand how you managed to read what he said as something other than a complement to what she said. As we know, Soon has a stick up his ass, it's a class feature.

[Raging Gene Ray]

The TRUTH as revealed in a dream some months ago:

OotS is a semi-autobiographical comic. The Snarl's world IS the nicer one, for it is the embodiment of realizing all the shortcomings of the GODS, for the GODS hated each other due to seeing their own flaws reflected back at them.

The Snarl wishes to consume others, so that they may know TRUEPEACE!

And it succeeded.

The Snarl then proceeded to travel to another world so it too could be consumed. While it recuperated, it took on a human form: Rich Burlew.

As it grew, Rich Burlew became more of a single appendage of the Snarl. The Snarl itself is slowly reaching peak power and will unleash its consumption of this world in 2012, right on schedule, shortly after publishing the last volume of its semi-autobiographical comic Order of the Stick.

[Snake-Aes]

Why do I feel I've seen this before somewhere?

[rewinn]

... Finally, if the statue is Kraagor, it's handy that the effect that turned him to stone also gave him a nice plinth to stand on, isn't it?
The standard Flesh-to-Stone spell has the disadvantage of leaving a stature around that might eventually be recognized as a stoned person, ready to be hit with a Flesh-to-Stone and perhaps resurrected. The victim is then free to seek revenge upon the spellcaster.

Plinth's Improved Flesh-to-Stone solves this problem by magically adding something for the victim to stand on. Passers-by think, "hunh, it's just a statute" and leave it alone or, at most, post graphetti.

[ApeofLight]

Perhaps the snarl has gained a sort of understanding of creation and destruction. Perhaps it has learned. That might be the reason for it not attacking or it could be that it can't act until all the gates have been unsealed or destroyed. And perhaps the reason V's familiar got memorized is because it saw absolute and beautiful chaos.

[Shatteredtower]

Maybe the Snarl pulls things into the rift because it wants someone to play with. :smalltongue:

In the short story, "Dial F for Frankenstein" (from which the The Lawnmower
Man movie got the line about the ringing of every telephone being his birthing cry), Arthur C. Clarke notes that one of the first things an infant interacting with the world will do is break things.

Or it could be exactly as Shojo described it. I don't know if the Giant wants to revisit this particular twist.

[hamishspence]

That was a good story- very like Terminator 3 Skynet in basic concept. The phone systems instead of the internet, but otherwise similar- and, they try to switch it off and can't.

I wonder if the Snarl is more childlike than it has otherwise appeared to be?

[Eerie]

Here is my crazy version. It is all a great divine conspiracy. Snarl was not created by the deities, he didn`t destroy the first universe, and he is actually benevolent. The gods imprisoned him so they could have free reign.


Seems like my theory is gaining momentum. :smallwink:

[Turkish Delight]

As is the theory underlying this entire thread. Kraagor is much more likely to be alive now, the Snarl is almost certainly not quite what we've been led to believe, and the bird wasn't just staring because it likes shiny objects.

Huzzah for calling things correctly!

[Corwin Weber]

Perhaps the snarl has gained a sort of understanding of creation and destruction. Perhaps it has learned. That might be the reason for it not attacking or it could be that it can't act until all the gates have been unsealed or destroyed. And perhaps the reason V's familiar got memorized is because it saw absolute and beautiful chaos.

That's sort of the direction I've been thinking with this.

Ok, so the Snarl is born of divine argument and pettiness. It's a being of pure chaos.... or is it?



Shojo's story specifically says that the Snarl had started to learn. What if he was even more right than he realized? The Snarl had started to learn, and it was imprisoned because it hadn't learned enough. It hadn't figured out enough about reality to see the prison forming around it. Once it was imprisoned, it was too late to do anything about it directly.... so maybe it started learning about its prison?

Maybe the world on the other side of the rift was something the Snarl created as an object study. It's studying reality in order to figure out how to get out of its prison... and maybe the rifts aren't natural at all... they're the result of the Snarl figuring out enough about its prison to open holes in it.

[waterpenguin43]

I personally thought Kraagor was turned into a gate, was I wrong?

[factotum]

I personally thought Kraagor was turned into a gate, was I wrong?

Er, I would say so, yes. The Order of the Scribble cast a spell to seal the rifts first, then they later researched the gates as a more permanent solution. Kraagor died while they were sealing the last rift, long before the gates were built.

[Ridureyu]

"Okay, if we use his spleen, appendix, and one lung, I can make most of the proper configuration for a gate. Anybody seen the larynx?"

[Corwin Weber]

"Okay, if we use his spleen, appendix, and one lung, I can make most of the proper configuration for a gate. Anybody seen the larynx?"

...but Belkar wasn't in the Order of the Scribble.....

[Grey Knight]

The Snarl was basically made out of the same kind of threads used to create the OOTS world. Maybe the Inner World is the Snarl. I leave speculation of how it came to be in such a state up to the more experience crazies theorisers!

[Coliumbos]

Here's something:
Kraagor could not be dead, but in the Snarl World instead. Nuff Said for that point. But what about the statue?

Since he's obviously as awesome as O'Chul with a side order of hardcore dwarfness, could Kraagor's statue... perhaps be alive itself? The diary from an 'episode' long ago said about how the dungeon is filled with the greatest beasts and everything ever... and what would be more difficult than KRAAGOR as a final boss?

Xykon has reached the rift 'anchor' (being the statue with plinth), and Roy enters the room. They square off for a final duel, and then... a booming voice filled with pure fangirl awesome rebounds all around. Elan probably goes 'dunh dun DAAAAH' or something, and Belkar makes a comment about how awesome that must be.
Kraagor descends, and begins the kicking of all involved. Literally everyone gets pwned, and V has to send a message to, say, O'Chul with Sending with 'We need your badassness to save the Stickverse!'
O'Chul and Kraagor face off... and the battle never ends.

It works, no?