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Navigator
2009-08-02, 10:48 PM
edit: June 21, 2010 -
After an extended break, I finally got back down to business and made several improvements. Again, I submit this to the community for testing, comments, and of course, use.

I've been working on a Wealth Manager, inspired by the Heroforge Tool.

This tool is best used for creating new (high level) characters that have more wealth than you know what to do with, or if you're a DM and want a quick way to assign NPC wealth. Overall, this tool will:

Allow you to spend your character's wealth in just about 15 minutes, regardless of level.
Give you a printable sheet with every magic item you own on it.
Empowers DMs to gear up NPCs without a headache.
Includes all of the Magic Item Compendium items and a few things from other books.
Requires NO MATH. Again, NO MATH.
Allows you to reduce the cost of items for crafting, and will tell you the amount of downtime you need and XP burned.
You get to see the page reference and short description of everything you buy.
Even has a shoddy spellbook wealth sheet for wizards.
Allows you to easily add custom items or items that aren't added yet.


Usability:
This tool is best used in MS Excel 2003 or later. It has been reported to work fine under MS Excel 2000, and is mostly functional in OpenOffice. Extending the OO functionality to 100% is a high priority for me, so if you're a dedicated OO user, just give it a little time.

Keep in mind, this is still very much in its alpha stages, but for practical purposes it's 100% usable.

Edit: I tried playing with this in OO the other day, and it crashed my computer. That being said, use this in OO at your own risk until I make more progress there.

Why?
The reason I'm sharing this is because I've spent a lot of time creating this, and it would go to waste if I were the only one to take advantage of it. Please post any comments you have. If you think it sucks, we're all entitled to our opinion, but do your best to make it constructive.

If you're a programmer that knows VBA or OO Basic, and want to contribute, definitely get back to me!

---------------------------

Download links can be found here (http://cs.oswego.edu/~farina/hics.html).

AstralFire
2009-08-03, 12:06 AM
I wish I'd had something like this two years ago. Good work; this sort of thing is a big help for making NPCs if you're a monster-phobe like me.

Gralamin
2009-08-03, 12:14 AM
Includes all of the Magic Item Compendium items and a few things from other books.

I'm not an expert on these matters, but last time I checked that isn't OGL, and thus technically illegal. I may be mistaken however.

Eloel
2009-08-03, 12:19 AM
Put a disclaimer,
Do not download this file if you don't own a copy of Magic Item Compendium.

Whether or not anyone cares, is their problem, AFAIK.
I may be wrong, but I'd hate to see hardwork go out-of-window...

Music exists that tells you to delete it after 24 hours, that's what I'm basing my assumption on.

Salvonus
2009-08-03, 12:24 AM
Hey, thanks! This is actually rather useful! :smalltongue:

For anyone that is interested in using this but doesn't have Excel 2003, it appears to function reasonably well in OpenOffice. :smallsmile:

elliott20
2009-08-03, 12:26 AM
nifty!

one little nitpick though. Right now you can load a character up with magical items but you can't seem to give them anything mundane or even things that aren't say, items. i.e. a 20th level character might also own a castle, a house, servants, etc.

I'm not saying that you should code these into the sheet, since once you open THAT flood gate, you get into a whole different debate about D&D price levels. But I think in the custom items sheet, there should be an option to add items that don't technically belong to any body area.

Navigator
2009-08-03, 02:16 AM
I'm not an expert on these matters, but last time I checked that isn't OGL, and thus technically illegal. I may be mistaken however.
As far as the OGL stuff goes, I don't even know where to start with that. The Heroforge Tools use considerably more information in WotC books than I do here. I don't know if there's any truth to it, but as long as I only use text from the short descriptions it can fly without a problem.


...you can't seem to give them anything mundane or even things that aren't say, items. i.e. a 20th level character might also own a castle, a house, servants, etc.
Adding a page for mundane items wouldn't be a big deal. I'll put that on my list.

If characters want to buy a castle... well, you can add it in as a custom item to Tools or something. If you can point me to where the rules are for getting those prices (if they exist), I'll definitely look into it.


...it appears to function reasonably well in OpenOffice
Honestly, I never even tried loading this in OpenOffice, because I had no confidence it'd be worth it. I'll change the OP to reflect this. When I'm back home I'll give it a whirl.

elliott20
2009-08-03, 04:57 AM
yeah, getting the mundane items in there shouldn't be too difficult.

but for things like castles and what not, short of the "generic" price in the DMG, I think it might be just easier to have the user add in their own items for that. otherwise, you'll end up being saddled with the task of converting potentially the entire stronghold builder's guide into this thing.

Gorbash
2009-08-03, 06:58 AM
I'm just curious why is, per your tool, maximum worth of one item a character has 1/4 his WBL? It doesn't make any sense, IMHO.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-08-03, 07:48 AM
I'm just curious why is, per your tool, maximum worth of one item a character has 1/4 his WBL? It doesn't make any sense, IMHO.

Because that's the rule in the DMG. It very much makes sense, because when statting up characters above 1st level you want to make a character statted at level X equal to a character who advanced from 1st to Xth; if you can spend all your wealth on one item, you're a lot more powerful than the guy who started at 1st, even though he's probably going to have more gold overall.

Gorbash
2009-08-03, 09:37 AM
Could you give me a page number of that rule, because I never heard about it?

And it is silly, since that would mean that characters would be able to buy, let's say, Belt of Giant's Strength +6, at level 15!

AstralFire
2009-08-03, 09:39 AM
Could you give me a page number of that rule, because I never heard about it?

And it is silly, since that would mean that characters would be able to buy, let's say, Belt of Giant's Strength +6, at level 15!

I can't give a page number at the moment, mostly because I'm feeling lazy, but I can confirm it. Should be by the WBL table.

Ernir
2009-08-03, 10:05 AM
Navigator, you are this week's most awesome person on the internet. This is great.
The basic item-lookup seems to work in OOo. The macros actually counting it all together, however, do not. Too bad. =/



I see two entries on the maximum item price. Odd.

Posting this shouldn't be illegal...

DMG, page 44:

As a general rule, a new character can spend no more than half her total wealth on a single item, and no more than one quarter the total wealth on consumables such as ammunition, scrolls, potions, wands, or alchemical items.
DMG, page 199:

You’re free to limit what magic items characters can choose when they create characters of higher levels, just as if you were assigning those items to treasure hoards in the game. You can exercise an item-by-item veto, but an easier method is to use maximum cost for a single item as a limit. For example, while an 8th-level character has 27,000 gp to spend, you can limit him to owning no single item worth more than one-quarter of that, or 5,500 gp. This is a good way to prevent imbalances such as an 8th-level fighter with hardly a copper piece to his name who is armed with a nine lives stealer.

Gorbash
2009-08-03, 10:32 AM
Half of the total does make more sense and is a good rule.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-08-03, 10:53 AM
Half of the total does make more sense and is a good rule.

Hmm, guess I mixed up the 1/2 total price and 1/4 consumables. Still, putting a 1/4 price limit on individual items isn't all that crippling; there should definitely be an option override that, though.

Gnaeus
2009-08-03, 11:14 AM
Considering that many fighter types are going to want to spend close to 1/2 WBL on their primary weapon, it should at least be an option.

Gorbash
2009-08-03, 11:25 AM
Precisely. 50% makes items like +5 Tomes/Manuals, Holy Avengers etc available at lvl 16, and not on 19th.

MickJay
2009-08-03, 12:00 PM
A lot depends on playstyle. You can gain wealth over the course of campaign mostly in form of random items (works of art, next-to-useless items), which means that if you want to buy useful equipment, you first need to sell the stuff you got (at a loss), effectively meaning that while you have a total 100k in gold and items, if you went to buy stuff, you'd be left with 60 or 70k to spend.

If players start at higher levels, it's fun to give them 50% of their WBL in form of randomly rolled stuff and see what they do with it. Of course, in game terms, it effectively it means they have less than their WBL would indicate, but "wealth" is just that, total sum of what they have, not "only the stuff that is 100% relevant to adventurer's class".

Random832
2009-08-03, 12:20 PM
A lot depends on playstyle. You can gain wealth over the course of campaign mostly in form of random items (works of art, next-to-useless items), which means that if you want to buy useful equipment, you first need to sell the stuff you got (at a loss), effectively meaning that while you have a total 100k in gold and items, if you went to buy stuff, you'd be left with 60 or 70k to spend.

WBL is supposed to take that into account. And art/gems/coins aren't supposed to have to be sold at a loss anyway.

Navigator
2009-08-03, 04:34 PM
Hmm, guess I mixed up the 1/2 total price and 1/4 consumables. Still, putting a 1/4 price limit on individual items isn't all that crippling; there should definitely be an option override that, though.
After reading the quotes from the DMG, I will look to modify that to 1/2 instead of 1/4, and I'll put "Suggested" Item Limit. The spirit of this tool is to just make things easier for people, so that particular number is there only for convenience sake.

But, in all actuality, there is nothing that mechanically prevents you from buying items higher than that amount. Other than it being there, it's completely irrelevant to the functionality of the sheet. In fact, there is nothing that prevents you from spending arbitrarily.


The basic item-lookup seems to work in OOo. The macros actually counting it all together, however, do not. Too bad. =/
I'm going to tackle this tonight I think. Generally, everything should work except the printable sheet.

Frosty
2009-08-03, 10:51 PM
Does this thing auto-equip NPCs for you based on their class or something?

Navigator
2009-08-04, 04:41 AM
Well, I can see getting this work completely on OpenOffice and clearing up a couple bugs by Thursday night or so (aside from the Item List sheet for now). I'll be sure to post the update.

Other than that, feel free to voice any other comments.


Does this thing auto-equip NPCs for you based on their class or something?
Not exactly, but it can help a great deal. If you're like myself or AstralFire, you'll be able to gear any NPC correctly and effectively in just a few minutes.

Frosty
2009-08-04, 11:36 AM
I'm using Office 2000 right now and it seems to work as well.

Oh here's a bug though: The program doesn't handle Synergy property well. For example, an armor with the properties Healing and Greater Healing will show up as: +3 Healing Healing, greater Padded when the lesser property should've been erased from the final item list since the greater property subsumes and replaces the lesser property.

EDIT: BIG BUG! The properties are ALL wrong for bows it seems in terms of what I select on the main page and what shows up on the final page.

After a bit of testing, I think there has to be some wrong pointers or something. I had a Magebane, Greater Dispelling, Dispelling greataxe, and everything in the final page showed up alright. I then changed the weapon to a longbow, and in the main page it auto-adjusted to have the properties of Flaming, Flaming Burst, and Sacred. I went back to the final page and it
still shows Magebane, Greater Dispelling, Dispelling longbow.

I tested by now switching the Sacred to Magebane, and I believe the final page replaced the Magebane to Ghost Touch. I switch it back to Sacred, and then switch the longbow to Longsword instead, and the properties auto-adjusted back to the proper properties on the main page.

Navigator
2009-08-04, 08:35 PM
I'm using Office 2000 right now and it seems to work as well.

Oh here's a bug though: The program doesn't handle Synergy property well. For example, an armor with the properties Healing and Greater Healing will show up as: +3 Healing Healing, greater Padded when the lesser property should've been erased from the final item list since the greater property subsumes and replaces the lesser property.
This isn't necessarily a bug, but just not implemented. Fixing this will require me to add another field to enhancements data, so that will also be going on the (rapidly growing) list, as well as changing things like "Healing, greater" to "Greater healing". Thanks for pointing that out though! :smallsmile:


EDIT: BIG BUG! The properties are ALL wrong for bows it seems in terms of what I select on the main page and what shows up on the final page.

After a bit of testing, I think there has to be some wrong pointers or something. I had a Magebane, Greater Dispelling, Dispelling greataxe, and everything in the final page showed up alright. I then changed the weapon to a longbow, and in the main page it auto-adjusted to have the properties of Flaming, Flaming Burst, and Sacred. I went back to the final page and it
still shows Magebane, Greater Dispelling, Dispelling longbow.

I tested by now switching the Sacred to Magebane, and I believe the final page replaced the Magebane to Ghost Touch. I switch it back to Sacred, and then switch the longbow to Longsword instead, and the properties auto-adjusted back to the proper properties on the main page.
I literally just caught this 5 minutes ago. Luckily, it's a super easy fix. Instead of looking up ranged weapon qualities for the Item List, it's looking up melee weapon qualities.

I'm going to be up all night (again), and plan on fixing up a few things.

Everyone, keep the input coming. It's highly appreciated, and I promise to be diligent in return.

woodenbandman
2009-08-04, 08:46 PM
Because that's the rule in the DMG. It very much makes sense, because when statting up characters above 1st level you want to make a character statted at level X equal to a character who advanced from 1st to Xth; if you can spend all your wealth on one item, you're a lot more powerful than the guy who started at 1st, even though he's probably going to have more gold overall.

I saved until level 12 to buy +1 Wild Full Plate. It was damn well worth it. Until then I bought absolutely nothing at all.

So I think you should be allowed to allocate your wealth however you like.

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 08:54 PM
I saved until level 12 to buy +1 Wild Full Plate. It was damn well worth it. Until then I bought absolutely nothing at all.

So I think you should be allowed to allocate your wealth however you like.

You had to suff-...

Right. Druid.

Theoretically you had to suffer for that. Newboy built at 12th level and up doesn't.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-08-04, 09:22 PM
You had to suff-...

Right. Druid.

Theoretically you had to suffer for that. Newboy built at 12th level and up doesn't.

Precisely. Even if you can save all your money for a single item, you suffer disadvantages for that (which the new character doesn't), and the ability to choose precisely the desired items rather than finding them or buying them with other gear sold at a loss (which the old character doesn't) is a significant advantage.

Draz74
2009-08-04, 11:01 PM
This is an awesome idea, but I, for one, did NOT have a good experience trying to run it with OpenOffice. Several Macros gave errors instead of results, and after about 8 minutes of use it crashed.

Oh, I also vote to get rid of the hard cap on the most expensive item you can buy. That's something that individual DMs should set and enforce. There are times when it is actually extremely logical for someone to spend more than half their money on just one item -- for example, my Level 2 Quarterstaff-focused melee warrior, who really wants the attack bonus from a masterwork weapon and is kind of an ascetic about other equipment.

Navigator
2009-08-04, 11:16 PM
Oh, I also vote to get rid of the hard cap on the most expensive item you can buy.


After reading the quotes from the DMG, I will look to modify that to 1/2 instead of 1/4, and I'll put "Suggested" Item Limit. The spirit of this tool is to just make things easier for people, so that particular number is there only for convenience sake.

But, in all actuality, there is nothing that mechanically prevents you from buying items higher than that amount. Other than it being there, it's completely irrelevant to the functionality of the sheet. In fact, there is nothing that prevents you from spending arbitrarily.

There may be some kinks opening it in OpenOffice, but if it actually prevents the selecting of items higher than that number, that would surely be an interesting bug.

Just to keep the integrity of the thread, unless anyone is actually prevented from selecting items above the limit (which would be unintended), consider this issue to be completely taken care of in the upcoming v1.3. However, if you think that the number should not be displayed at all, I'm willing to hear about it (and since it's already caused this much confusion, I'm not even sure it'll make v1.3).

Edit:

This is an awesome idea, but I, for one, did NOT have a good experience trying to run it with OpenOffice. Several Macros gave errors instead of results, and after about 8 minutes of use it crashed.
As I type this I'm in the middle of minimizing the need for macros to give this a better shot at working in OpenOffice. I am very interested in getting this to work in free applications without scrapping it entirely, so those of you who are using OpenOffice, look forward to v1.3.

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 11:23 PM
I would suggest leaving the number in. It's a good, useful reminder of an important aspect of the rules for higher level characters, and reminders can be ignored.

Just look at my Paint Shop Pro for Windows 3.11 proggy... I'm on day 1500 or so of my 30 day free trial on the old computer.

Frosty
2009-08-05, 12:14 AM
Next time, can you also add in items from Races of the Wild? :)

Navigator
2009-08-05, 02:08 AM
So, as I'm going through the mundane items and pretending I don't see the "Weight" column from the SRD...

Does anyone have a reasonable solution for tallying up weights of items without introducing a crap ton of extra data based on character size? Does anyone really care about item weights? I want this to be complete, but I'm very willing to continue pretending I don't see the weight column.

elliott20
2009-08-05, 02:13 AM
most of the time, I don't bother with encumbrance myself. And I doubt most people will mind not having it. Otherwise, you'd have to introduce a carrying capacity column and you're just gonna end up creeping towards replicating the character generation app that came with the 3E books.

Myrmex
2009-08-05, 02:25 AM
THIS IS SO COOL.

/loves the internet

Navigator
2009-08-05, 05:06 AM
THIS IS SO COOL.
Thanks. I think so too. :smallbiggrin:


Next time, can you also add in items from Races of the Wild? :)
There was an angry house cat sitting outside my room all night. Luckily for you, I'm still a level 1 commoner.

...unluckily for you and the rest of of us, the thistledown, leafweave, and wildwood materials are really inconsistent. The prices for each kind of armor is different, which veers from the pattern of a single cost for each armor type. The only reasonable way I have to implement at the moment this is to put each possible combination directly into the armor choices. However, that would allow for things like adamantine leafweave chain shirts, and would not be easily extensible when new kinds of armor are added.

Until I (or someone else can) figure out something brilliant, decide to use the honor system, or settle on a house rule this will have to go on the back-burner.

On a brighter note, v1.3 is posted on the original post.

Edit: I just realized that I put in all the core mundane stuff, and never saw a price for a castle. Is that in the Stronghold Builder's Guide? Just point me to the source and I'll queue it for the next update.

InaVegt
2009-08-05, 06:24 AM
Edit: I just realized that I put in all the core mundane stuff, and never saw a price for a castle. Is that in the Stronghold Builder's Guide? Just point me to the source and I'll queue it for the next update.

There is no such thing as a single price for a castle, it all depends on what you want/need.

Iku Rex
2009-08-05, 08:16 AM
I've downloaded 1.3 and it looks good so far (using OO).

I haven't done more than skim through it, so I can't give much feedback.

Some suggestions:

The Main sheet could use check boxes for the "Extrarordinary ... " crafting feats from Eberron. (25% off on gp or xp cost.)

The spellbook sheet should have one column for "Free spells" (no cost), one for "Spell added to spellbook from scroll" (with the default scroll price for that level) and one for "Spell added to spellbook from another's spellbook" (with the 50 x spell level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#addingSpellstoaWizardsSpellbook)p rice). A row (or rows) where you can input the cost of non-standard (more expensive) scrolls scribed would be nice as well.

It could also use a check box for Aureon's Spellshard or Boccob's Blessed Book (no scribing cost).

elliott20
2009-08-05, 08:24 AM
page 101 DMG

building costs
simple house 1,000
grand house 5,000
mansion 100,000
tower 50,000
keep 150,000
castle 500,000
huge castle 1,000,000
moat with bridge 50,000

not really the best price tags out there but it'll do.

Navigator
2009-08-05, 09:58 AM
First, thanks for the feedback.


I've downloaded 1.3 and it looks good so far (using OO).

I haven't done more than skim through it, so I can't give much feedback.

Some suggestions:

The Main sheet could use check boxes for the "Extrarordinary ... " crafting feats from Eberron. (25% off on gp or xp cost.)
Would there be an issue with generalizing this to a single checkbox followed by an option for XP or Gold reduction? By considering this, I know I'm also opening up the floodgates for Mercantile Background from the FR setting, which would entail adding yet another checkbox for every item everywhere.

I'm also aware of the eye sores in OO, which will be taken care of soon.

The spellbook sheet should have one column for "Free spells" (no cost), one for "Spell added to spellbook from scroll" (with the default scroll price for that level) and one for "Spell added to spellbook from another's spellbook" (with the 50 x spell level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#addingSpellstoaWizardsSpellbook)p rice). A row (or rows) where you can input the cost of non-standard (more expensive) scrolls scribed would be nice as well.

It could also use a check box for Aureon's Spellshard or Boccob's Blessed Book (no scribing cost).
Yeah, I've had a lot of cognitive dissonance over this because I hate those rules with a passion, but want to provide a correct representation for them. I will probably end up doing exactly what you've suggested, because not every wizard will have the same number of "free" spells (master specialist, for example). Throwing Blessed Book in the mix will be interesting to implement, but I've never heard of Aureon's Spellshard. Is it just a 500 page variation of the Blessed Book?

You've probably guessed by now that I am extremely ignorant of Eberron stuff, so feel free to bring up anything else that may be relevant.

[houserule stuff]
As a side note, the house rule for the spellbooks is my personal house rule that has been accepted in my gaming circle. Basically, you pay that price, and never have to worry about ink, number of spellbooks, cost for pages, or any of that nonsense. Also, the option for 50g x spell level doesn't exist. I'm not saying anyone should adopt it, but it's there, and that's what it is (informally).
[/houserule stuff]

Draz74
2009-08-05, 11:28 AM
Glad to hear this will be OpenOffice-friendly eventually.

I know it would be a pain, but I do need to worry about Encumbrance in some campaigns, and having a spreadsheet calculate weight for me would be very nice indeed. Note that there needs to be a way not to count weight of certain items, too, e.g. if they're in a Bag of Holding most of the time. Don't worry about carrying capacity; just tell me what the total weight I'm carrying is, and I'll be happy to do the rest.

As far as more supplements go, I would prioritize Dungeonscape, personally. Easily one of the best three books for mundane equipment (the other two being the PHB and 3.0 A&EG), and with a small number of extremely handy magic items too.

Spells indeed need some kind of "full price, half price, free" option, depending how much you were charged to access them in the first place, and whether they were put in a Blessed Book.

AstralFire
2009-08-05, 02:07 PM
While I am not likely to use your product because this is no longer my system of choice, I loudly applaud your work and shall continue bumping it from time to time. :smallsmile:

Frosty
2009-08-12, 02:38 PM
*bump* because this is such an excellent tool.

AstralFire
2009-08-13, 03:33 PM
Going up? :smallsmile:

twom00nz
2009-08-20, 01:12 PM
I was excited about trying this tool, but the download link seems to no longer be working. Can you re-post please?

imp_fireball
2009-08-20, 07:14 PM
I got two broken links from the OP. Fix?

Navigator
2009-08-20, 09:25 PM
Thanks for noticing! Fixed. :smallcool:

Edit:
While I'm sucking up a post, I may as well mention that 1.4 may be coming in a week or so, which will be focused on increasing usability in OpenOffice (or at least making it look better), and the spellbook stuff.

Navigator
2010-06-21, 04:48 PM
As can be seen by the original post, I started working on this again. The most notable changes are the Spellbook manager, support for artisan crafting feats, and a separate sheet for mundane items.

While I'm free, please request things to be added, let me know about any bugs or typos, and any kind of suggestion is welcome!

Edit:

So, I forgot to mention a few things.

First, I decided that unless someone volunteers to the arduous task for data entry, I will not be including encumbrance.

Second, for the Exceptional Artisan feat, the one that reduces downtime for crafted items by 25%, how does that get resolved? I can think of two methods:

Reduce the effective cost of the item by 25% before calculating how long it takes
Multiply the amount of time an items takes to craft by 3/4 and round up to the nearest day


Third, does the gp cost reduction from Extraordinary Artisan count for mundane crafting? I've read the text, and it would seem to me by RAW, it would. However, I wanted input from the community before I implemented that.

Fourth, as far as item synergy goes, I'm putting that on the back-burner. Until then, just keep track of it yourself. I want to avoid introducing a macro to check it.

rojomoke
2010-06-21, 07:25 PM
Does this cater for strength bonuses on composite bows?

Navigator
2010-06-22, 01:39 PM
Does this cater for strength bonuses on composite bows?
Oddly enough, that's something I haven't thought of. I'll be sure to add that in my next update.

Navigator
2010-07-02, 05:08 PM
Made a minor fix. Bump. :smallbiggrin: