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View Full Version : Vampire and Spawn CR Adjustment



Twilight Jack
2009-08-03, 01:46 PM
I've always tried to avoid using vampires in my D&D games, mainly because I've already got a game for dealing with bloodsucking undead, and also because the crunch for vampires in the D&D books doesn't really fit my conception of them, even within a medieval fantasy setting.

But I've gotten over it and am intending to utilize a vampire antagonist in an upcoming arc. I just want to make one change to the single aspect of their mechanics that bothers me most.

I'm dropping the energy drain.

I cannot think of a single mythological or fictional source in which the merest touch of a vampire saps the lifeforce of the living (well, at least not the sources in which the vampires also sustain themselves on the blood of the living). It works for other types of undead, but I honestly feel that the energy drain was thrown onto vampires just to make them arbitrarily more dangerous, without any concern for whether it made sense.

So my question to the Playgrounders is whether the loss of that single ability has any appreciable effect on their proper CR, and/or whether they should get something to make up for the loss.

ErrantX
2009-08-03, 02:17 PM
I make their bite do Constitution damage, but yeah, I remove the energy drain and reduce their LA accordingly. I usually drop the LA by 3 and the CR stays the same as they're still really dangerous anyhow. If you wanted to, you could replace the energy drain with the ability to control twice the amount of spawn. That seems reasonable.

-X

AslanCross
2009-08-03, 06:00 PM
Actually I think the Energy Drain was a holdover from older editions, where their bite drained levels instead of Con. (I remember HATING fighting vampires in Baldur's Gate 2 because of this.)

For some reason in 3.5 they decided to give the vampire its iconic bloodsucking while retaining the Energy Drain somehow.

jmbrown
2009-08-03, 06:10 PM
Vampire in 3E are actually identical to 2E vampires right down to the energy drain. The bite attack in 3E is the only new addition.

You can get rid of the energy drain but vampire is still a powerful template. I wouldn't touch the LA. Perhaps raise their domination DC by +1 or +2 or let them control twice the number of spawn.

Edit: Vampires haven't changed since 1st edition. The bite attack is actually the first addition to them in 30 years.

In other words, Dungeons and Dragons vampires sustain themselves on drained energy not blood.

Edit 2: This fact makes sense because in every edition of D&D the same rules for creating spawn have existed.


Create Spawn (Su)

A humanoid or monstrous humanoid slain by a vampire’s energy drain rises as a vampire spawn 1d4 days after burial.

Spawn are never created through a lack of blood or outright slaying, they're created through energy drain.

Get rid of the bite attack because that's not true to the original D&D vampire :D

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-08-03, 07:00 PM
Sean K Reynolds did something similar, dropping the Con attack and some other abilities, to make a weaker vamp:
http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/monsters/fleshboundvampire_3p5.html

Belial_the_Leveler
2009-08-03, 07:16 PM
Remember people; DnD vampires are Tolkien vampires. Frodo and the other halflings in the crypt were convinced to lay down and sleep just by the vampire's voice and stare and by touching them, the thing nearly drained away their life, leaving them behind as frozen corpses.

And that's one of the scariest scenes in the book BTW>