Could Order of the Stick work as an Animated Series [Archive]

Nights1stStar

2009-08-03, 09:46 PM

The pacing quality would depend on the length of each episodes. Would OOTS be 25-minute episodes, 50-minute episodes, or full-length films? But even if you don't consider episode length, I have good hopes for the pacing. OOTS has overarching plotlines to keep the audience from ep to ep, an equal balance of humor and drama, and exciting battles preceded by good setup and followed by just the right amount of downtime.

One problem would be the first arc: it'd have to excise the weaker jokes and connect the better ones in a straight plot, but even that stops being an issue when the Linear Guild comes around. The biggest problem would be finding an English-language channel to air it. Most of them look down on cartoons, and Cartoon Network only seems to show Spongebob Sqaurepants wannabes these days, where all the protagonists are defined by their stupidity, and there are few clever jokes to standby the clever ones. :smallannoyed:. AN OOTS animated series would have to be Direct-to-DVD or streamed on the internet.

As for the risk of getting a bad series...I think I'd take the risk. If the show has Adaptation Decay, we'll just disown it, and it wouldn't be a problem. And if it works...we'll have a whole other way to savor our favorite comic. :smallcool:

[TS] Shadow

2009-08-03, 09:53 PM

The biggest problem would be finding an English-language channel to air it. Most of them look down on cartoons, and Cartoon Network only seems to show Spongebob Sqaurepants wannabes these days, where all the protagonists are defined by their stupidity, and there are few clever jokes to standby the clever ones. :smallannoyed:. AN OOTS animated series would have to be Direct-to-DVD or streamed on the internet.

I don't think so. Just because a station shows horrible programming doesn't mean that it won't show GOOD programing either. However, I doubt that Nick or Cartoon Network would show OotS. A lot of the material, violence, and language is a little too much for little Timmy to see. So the real problem is finding a station that will show a PG-13 cartoon series that ISN'T a Simpsons knockoff.

Ghastly Epigram

2009-08-03, 10:13 PM

Most of them look down on cartoons, and Cartoon Network only seems to show Spongebob Sqaurepants wannabes these days, where all the protagonists are defined by their stupidity, and there are few clever jokes to standby the clever ones. :smallannoyed:.

You best not be hatin' on Spongebob son.

Optimystik

2009-08-03, 10:22 PM

Shadow;6645983']So the real problem is finding a station that will show a PG-13 cartoon series that ISN'T a Simpsons knockoff.

Comedy Central, Sci-Fi, G4. CC would be an especially good choice because Krod Mandoon and the Flaming etc etc is doing so poorly.

You best not be hatin' on Spongebob son.

But he's right...

KBF

2009-08-03, 10:43 PM

OotS could EASILY be worked into an animation series. It'd follow more anime-esque pacing than typical American pacing, where there are single episodes that only wrap at the end of each episode in the sense that interesting things stopped happening, and are part of an overarching series that only really ends at the end of each season.

Every single cartoon joke can be EASILY worked into animated format. Offpanel = offscreen, speech bubbles = "He has some sort of screaming demon reverb thing going on with his voice. I think he just wants attention." (8-Bit Theater. If it wasn't today's, I'd link it)

And Spongebob doesn't have those problems so much. Or, it used to not have those problems, depending on opinion. Most of the newer shows on Cartoon Network just tend to be retarded, with maybe one clever joke an episode. And no, not the one they wrote the entire episode around, the one that got three seconds of screentime inbetween retarded OH NO HYJINX and OH NO fart.

veti

2009-08-03, 10:58 PM

AstralFire

2009-08-03, 11:03 PM

Please, please, please don't let it happen.

If you're disappointed with recent cartoons, I can understand that. Many of them are pretty disappointing. But the answer isn't to hand an idea that works beautifully as a webcomic over to those same producers, voice actors and animators who have failed so dismally with all the other great ideas they've been given.

We've seen comic strips adapted to cartoons before. Charlie Brown, Dilbert, Spider-Man - it's never pretty. Let's be happy with what we've got.

Dilbert was pretty good, just different.

The Garfield cartoon savages the crap out of the Garfield comic.

Spider-Man: TAS was decent, even if Spider-Man Unlimited and Spider-Man and Friends weren't.

The entire DC Animated Universe rocked hardcore.

X-Men Evolution was really good. X-Men TAS was... faithful. That's about all I can cite in its favor.

Lord Seth

2009-08-03, 11:27 PM

Dilbert was pretty good, just different.

The Garfield cartoon savages the crap out of the Garfield comic.

Spider-Man: TAS was decent, even if Spider-Man Unlimited and Spider-Man and Friends weren't.

The entire DC Animated Universe rocked hardcore.

X-Men Evolution was really good. X-Men TAS was... faithful. That's about all I can cite in its favor.I liked X-Men TAS more than X-Men Evolution, though both were good. Still, the existence of the DCAU, especially Batman: The Animated Series and Superman: The Animated Series, show that yes, you can make good cartoons out of comics. Oh, and W.I.T.C.H. was great also. (not too familiar with the original comics, but the cartoon was great, especially the second season)

If you want more direct adaptations of comics--that is, sticking pretty closely to the original story rather than going other places like the DCAU--then look no further than anime based on a manga (especially of the shonen variety). Of course, some of those aren't very good, but some are good (or at least are going to appeal to the same people that the manga appealed to), again showing that whether an comic-to-cartoon adaptation is good or not depends greatly on who's actually doing the adaptation.

As for Order of the Stick? Obviously some jokes would be lost and a few things would need to be rewritten (e.g. instead of the characters talking about it being a comic, they'd talk about it being a cartoon). But one thing about Order of the Stick is...it's wordy. Very wordy. If it were a cartoon, more likely than not they'd spend more time talking than actually doing anything. Most likely it would end up being worse in that regard than DragonballZ.

skim172

2009-08-04, 12:41 AM

I'd say the end result, while still with potential, would lose quite a bit in the translation. The media we're talking about are completely different.

This is a twice(thrice?)-a-week comic strip. Individual snapshots put together to capture a longer scene. Pacing is provided by the reader, and by the gap between strips. Each strip is an "episode." And the gaps between strips can be as short as an instant or as long as an infinity. And we, as the reader, accept the pace willingly. Because this is the nature of the medium.

Then compare this to an animated, 22-minute episodic series. 22 minutes of continued motion and action, all paced out smoothly and realistically. You can't simply skip from hour to minute to day willy-nilly - there needs to be a method or you end up isolating the audience, who feel left out of the loop.

The ultimate problem is immersion. Any sort of lengthy motion picture seeks to immerse the audience in its own mythos and universe. The process is mostly subconscious for the viewer and needs to be guided by the elements of the motion: pacing, ambience, music, dialogue. On the other hand, a comic strip provides immersion, but the process is almost exclusively on the reader. Through the process of absorbing the text or observing the visual, at their pace, the reader becomes immersed. The expert comic artist guides the process through the size and detail of the image, the placing and length of text - similar in concept, but different in execution.

This is why printed media so often fails to survive the transition to the screen. Compare reading a lengthy description of a haunted house to simply being shown the image. The description is drawn-out and gradual; the image is sudden and immediate. So it must be correctly compensated.

Some may argue that Japanese animation often makes the jump with success. But then you'd have to define what exactly you meant by "success." Japanese anime is lenient, meaning that it allows certain things that wouldn't really fly in other areas. Specifically, anime allows lengthy internal monologues, self-narration and description, which makes it easier to lift the text of a comic straight to the script. Imagine Jaws if the main character had to continually yell, "I'm so scared! That shark is so big and frightening and its large dagger-like teeth may soon consume me! This thought paralyzes me with fear."

But what would really suffer is the comic strip's punchlines. It would impossible for that closing statement to have the same impact. For us as a reader, it's funny because it comes right at that climactic point of the episode - today's strip. For the viewer, it would be another joke in a long chain and thus, nothing special.

If one was to make OOtS into an animated series, I'd suggest first:

1) Start small. Start with some short flash animations, fine-tune the mechanics. Not just the art, but experimenting with just how to produce the necessary mood and style. Then expand.

2) Don't stick to the original. And while that sounds like blasphemy, the most successful translations from one medium to another have been the ones that roamed free from the original, in their script, their style or even their plot. Ultimately, you tell the same general story, with the same themes and concepts, but with the actual devices of the story altered to fit the medium. It's not a faithful adaptation - it's a complete revision, inspired by the original.

Consider this for an example: the relationship between Haley and Elan. For hundreds of strips, we accepted the obvious attraction between the two and the obliviousness of Elan. Because we weren't constantly beaten over the head with it. But imagine if you had to watch this in 20-minute episodes. How long could you watch Haley and Elan continuing this device before getting really, really annoyed?

Either Haley and Elan can never be on the screen together or the attraction between them would have to be greatly toned down, so it would not be so blatant. Their relationship has been a fairly important plot element, so consider the impact of doing so (not to mention the punchlines you'd lose!)

Raging Gene Ray

2009-08-04, 05:19 AM

See also: Pat from SNL. It's definitely possible.

Because Pat's voice was such a treat to listen to.

Seriously, comic strips can work as cartoons (Dilbert, Garfield, Peanuts, most every anime that started as a manga), but OotS isn't really a comic strip, it's a Graphic Novel. Each strip relates to a greater plot, and it is set to end when the story is through.

Would an animated version just be what we've read so far, or would it involve sidequests heretofore unmentioned?

That would be a good name for it: Sidequests Heretofore Unmentioned!

Gamerlord

2009-08-04, 07:10 AM

We cannot let this happen to explain why I shall call upon the infinite power of TV TROPES!!!!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheThemeParkVersion
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AdaptationDecay
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExecutiveMeddling
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FollowTheLeader
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ViewersAreMorons
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MediaWatchdog?from=Main.MediaWatchdogs
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoralGuardians
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LighterAndSofter
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AngstAversion

If we let this happen it will be http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuinedFOREVER

Random832

2009-08-04, 07:35 AM

[snip]

That stuff happens in newspaper comics too - the way to avoid it is to not put it on over-the-air networks on saturday mornings.

Draxonicar

2009-08-04, 11:28 AM

Erm..gamerkid, the ruined forever link says that you can't know till it's run it's course.....read the sources you cite

AstralFire

2009-08-04, 11:32 AM

We cannot let this happen to explain why I shall call upon the infinite power of TV TROPES!!!!

Posts like these are why I hate TV Tropes.

Optimystik

2009-08-04, 11:36 AM

Posts like these are why I hate TV Tropes.

YMMV (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YourMileageMayVary)

:smalltongue:

Dark Faun

2009-08-04, 11:44 AM

Posts like these are why I hate TV Tropes.
Don't hate the game, hate the player. :smallwink:

Gamerlord

2009-08-04, 11:46 AM

Erm..gamerkid, the ruined forever link says that you can't know till it's run it's course.....read the sources you cite
I am betting that it will be ruined FOREVER!

y2kyle89

2009-08-04, 11:46 AM

Spider-Man: TAS was decent, even if Spider-Man Unlimited and Spider-Man and Friends weren't.
.

The Spectacular Spider-man is really good.

Any way: I think it could work if they tried retelling it for the show rather than just copy-pasting the comic into animated form.

Nights1stStar

2009-08-04, 12:07 PM

You best not be hatin' on Spongebob son.I don't hate Spongebob, but I can't say I lilke it either. It's not that the show itself is that bad, but I have a little brother who watches CN for several hours a day. I've tried to watch some of the shows with him, but nearly every single show CN runs regularly these days stars a really dumb boy and his really dumb adventures. Watching half-an-hour of Spongebob isn't a tortuous way of spending your time, but having to concentrate on your homework while hours upon hours of Spongebob wannabes blast from the TV in the next room? Not so fun. If those are the kinds of shows CN likes, it won't be able to appreciate OOTS.

Nights1stStar

2009-08-04, 12:18 PM

Shadow;6645983']I don't think so. Just because a station shows horrible programming doesn't mean that it won't show GOOD programing either. However, I doubt that Nick or Cartoon Network would show OotS. A lot of the material, violence, and language is a little too much for little Timmy to see. So the real problem is finding a station that will show a PG-13 cartoon series that ISN'T a Simpsons knockoff.You'd be surprised at the number of double entendres and violence CN manages to sneak into each episode, and foul language can be easily substituted. The problem is that OotS has clever humor along with the crude ones. There's wordplay, DnD and pop culture references, parodies, Lampshade Hanging, etc, but most modern CN cartoons stick with the poo jokes and pants-ripping. So it'd have to a channel that could appreciate a non-Family-Guy-style animated series.

As for TV Tropes...it's like a clever geek's paradise! :smallcool: For some reason, people think knowing the tropes in the shows you watch will make you like the show less. But to those who don't like lampshade hanging (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LampshadeHanging)...why do you like Order of the Stick? It's practically a lampshade factory. one of the most-talked about webcomics on the site (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OrderOfTheStick), and it even has its picture on the Lampshade Hanging page. Knowing tropes lets you have conversations with your friends about Narmy scenes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Narm), Talking as Free Actions (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TalkingIsAFreeAction), how Our Dwarves Are All the Same (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurDwarvesAreAllTheSame), and of course, Crowning Moments of Awesome (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/CrowningMoment/WebComics). And when a trope is subverted, you get to appreciate how clever the author is. Course, Adaptation Decay tropes aren't excuses to bar an OOTS adaptation, (every adaptation of every comic/book risks decay, yet many turn out good), but I find it hard to believe that one could be a TV Troper could hate OOTS or vice versa, because the two are nearly one and same in their constant lampshading.

AstralFire

2009-08-04, 12:50 PM

No channel (except Fox; they need to change how their executives work. Lots of executive turnover = lots of executive backstabbing on experimental shows) is fully evil or anything like that, and you go back four years and CN had a pretty strong line-up.

veti

2009-08-04, 03:43 PM

2) Don't stick to the original. And while that sounds like blasphemy, the most successful translations from one medium to another have been the ones that roamed free from the original, in their script, their style or even their plot. Ultimately, you tell the same general story, with the same themes and concepts, but with the actual devices of the story altered to fit the medium. It's not a faithful adaptation - it's a complete revision, inspired by the original.

Now that's the most useful and insightful single thing anyone's said in this thread so far.

I might be interested in an animated version, if none of the main characters ever has a speaking part in it. Let it tell the story of Team Peregrine, or the Order of the Scribble, or something. Good idea, great way of expanding the backstory.

But please, let me keep my own internal versions of Haley and Elan and Belkar and Redcloak. I don't want to hear someone else's idea of what they sound like or how they interact.

olthar

2009-08-04, 04:09 PM

am i the only person who thought of the 8-bit theater animated series (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/72945) instead of a tv series?

AstralFire

2009-08-04, 04:11 PM

Now that's the most useful and insightful single thing anyone's said in this thread so far.

I might be interested in an animated version, if none of the main characters ever has a speaking part in it. Let it tell the story of Team Peregrine, or the Order of the Scribble, or something. Good idea, great way of expanding the backstory.

But please, let me keep my own internal versions of Haley and Elan and Belkar and Redcloak. I don't want to hear someone else's idea of what they sound like or how they interact.

I don't quite think that's what they meant, though that'd work too. The Garfield Cartoon was so successful - and I think is ultimately way better than the comic, even when it was good - because it didn't try to make a 22 minute version of a Garfield strip screaming "BEAN ME!" while killing spiders.

[TS] Shadow

2009-08-04, 09:54 PM

I might be interested in an animated version, if none of the main characters ever has a speaking part in it. Let it tell the story of Team Peregrine, or the Order of the Scribble, or something. Good idea, great way of expanding the backstory.

I doubt that Team Peregrine is plot important enough for an entire animated series about them. I really don't understand why everyone's so entralled with them; it's even more ridiculous than the O-Chul or TGWTH worship.

But anyway, on topic, the adventures of any other group BESIDES the Order of the Stick would have to be a spinoff, and that would only happen if the original show is succesful. If you don't want to see "someone else's" interpreation, don't watch it.

MagicianMan5

2009-08-19, 10:41 PM

Heck, i know i'm new to the forums, but i would support a series. order of the stick is friggin' sweet.
at the end of the week i will know all about the main Pc's and main Villan's backstory's. and the other reason i'm posting now is to know what my little person at the side of the post looks like. bye.
p.s. if anyone knows where i can get started on d&d for cheap, i would like to know.:smallbiggrin:

MagicianMan5

2009-08-19, 10:42 PM

wow that little green guy looks sooo cool. awesome.

Tannhaeuser

2009-08-20, 03:19 PM

I am sure stick figure animation could work technically, as has been demonstrated by the Animator vs. Animated (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo1d6ttbAq8) series which I'm sure many of you have seen. Moreover, I think it would be possible to adapt OotS, though it would have to be in a more concentrated form than the strip, and the "flavor" of it would be somewhat different. On the other hand, though I speak both as an animation fan and one who believes animation writing has improved immensely in the fairly recent past (I grew up with things like Goober and the Ghost Chasers, God help me), I still think that it would be far more likely that without constant oversight by the Giant the writing on any toon version would very quickly fall to the level of mere "clever-clever" pop culture references and quips, without a solid story arc behind it. It would depend a great deal, of course, on which particular animation company picked it up.

captainswift

2009-08-20, 05:15 PM

skim172

2009-08-20, 05:34 PM

I think it could certainly work, and be written well. However, without major adaptation, I doubt it could be successful.

Even since the story has become more the focus over the jokes, much of the humor in OotS is very much aimed at a specific niche audience. Gamers (and D&D gamers at that), are not a large demographic, TV-wise, so the large majority of the audience, when confronted with Spot Checks and Initiative Rolls, will simply have no earthly idea what's going on.

So, the humor will have to move away from that, almost entirely (too many jokes the audience doesn't get equals no audience). Or it will have to be aired on a niche channel, which isn't worried about larger demographics.

This is mainly what I was thinking when I made my post. The humor would have to be sacrificed, in many ways, to accommodate a larger audience. And it's not just the humor - much of the construct of the OOTS would have to be revised. A mainstream audience would not understand why every thief has to yell, "Sneak Attack!" In fact, it would probably be interpreted as some sort of running gag. There are many things that, as a gaming comic, are taken for granted that would have to be explained as a movie.

Take the statement: "The sorcerer Xykon is a lich who leads an evil goblin horde."

In the context of OOTS, this requires no explanation. Even if one reader doesn't quite know what a lich is, it is a reasonable expectation for them to try to find out.

But if it came up on television? Most audiences would need some exposition.

"What's a sorcerer?"

"They cast magic spells."

"Like a wizard?"

"Yeah."

"Why does he lead goblins? You mean the tiny green guys that scare children?"

"No, they're really big and mean and warlike."

"That's not what I remember."

"But if you played fantasy games, you'd know that's what goblins are."

"What's a leech?"

"No, it's lich. It's an undead skeleton."

"What's undead?"

"Like, it's dead, but it came back to life."

"Like Jesus?"

"No, but its body is still dead, but its mind is still working."

"But it's a skeleton. There's no brain."

"Its mind still works. It's magic."

"That sounds lame. Why can't they just break its bones or something?"

"It's really strong."

"But it has no muscles. Or bone marrow. Or anything."

"It's magic."

"Well, this just sounds awfully contrived."

And so on.

I don't think it's impossible. I'm actually in favor of it. But I think caution and innovation are gonna have to walk hand in hand through the creation process.

But if someone started making some internet flash versions of the comic? I'd probably watch 'em.

Steward

2009-08-20, 05:55 PM

But if it came up on television? Most audiences would need some exposition.

You know, this wouldn't be the first movie or tv show to have supernatural stuff in it. Just off the top of my head, I know of Supernatural, Transformers, the original Dungeons and Dragons tv show, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Austin Powers, I Dream of Jeannie, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, Mortal Kombat, the Fairly Odd Parents, Power Rangers, Sailor Moon, Thundercats, etc.

All of those shows contain things that no-one on Earth has ever dealt with in real life, and a lot of them are a lot more exotic than "sorcerer" and "skeleton" (really, you don't think that anyone outside of D&D has ever heard of skeletons? Aren't they like one of the archetypal halloween costumes!?) It wouldn't be that hard to have one of the characters explain the plot and I doubt that there's anyone who doesn't know what a zombie is.
The only part that would be challenging would be the Dungeon and Dragons mechanics humor.

TerrickTerran

2009-08-20, 08:29 PM

That and the likelikhood Rich wouldn't be involved in any major capacity.

AlexanderRM

2009-08-20, 10:32 PM

Any way: I think it could work if they tried retelling it for the show rather than just copy-pasting the comic into animated form.

Yeah, I'd say so. Have a new story, something that happened offscreen or Before the Beginning or after the end once it ends, assuming we don't end with a TPK or something else which prevents it from being continued. You might potentially resort to an alternate-universe with the same characters (at least the 6 OOTS anyway) and world but a completely different plot.

dethkruzer

2009-08-21, 12:22 PM

I think it would all depend on the style of the animation, stick characters would be good for keeping up the humor and characters but i don't think it would just work, i just have this feeling.

As for anime, i think it might be the best choice, the graphic wouldn't be too simple, action would work really well and character personalities could be kept intact.

Then there is acting, it could be interesting although i couldn't imagine a gender neutral human with latex elf-ears shouting "fireball" or "disintegrate" and then they start playing around with special effects.

Tannhaeuser

2009-08-21, 02:06 PM

Must everything be anime? OotS has its own perfectly charming style; the stick figures give the story a directness that too much detail would actually detract from (as I believe Rich Burlew himself has asserted). To put the story in the ubiquitous anime style, pretty much because that is the popular style at the moment, would rob the strip of its individuality. One could do OotS as anime, or Disney style, or in the exact manner of The Simpsons, or Wall-E, or Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, I suppose; one might even do it well; but why bother? Wouldn't it be better to make an original anime series, if anime is what one wants, and let OotS be OotS?

Scarlet Knight

2009-08-21, 02:18 PM

I can just see the concept meeting:

"Wait , wait , wait! The hero just killed a friendly gnome while he was giving his friends directions, just for a bar of chocolate?"
"Well, mostly for the fun of it, but, yeah."
"Thank You."

Tannhaeuser

2009-08-21, 02:51 PM

Heh, but Scarlet Knight, don't forget that Scooby-Doo once had a scene in which the ghost of a Chinese warlord had Scooby and Shaggy tied to a pile of dynamite with a lit fuse:

Shaggy: Don't you know it's against the law to blow up a perfectly good storeroom?
Zen Tuo: We will build a new storeroom!

And don't get me started on the number of people Race Bannon offed.

Tobimaro

2009-08-21, 06:44 PM

I agree with your views that OotS could be made into a good animated show. But, unless the Giant wants to put a lot more oversight into it than he could muster on his own, he'd have to put into a contract that certain story aspects could not be changed unless he were to approve of them.

Personally, I'd like to see it happen.

I am sure stick figure animation could work technically, as has been demonstrated by the Animator vs. Animated (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo1d6ttbAq8) series which I'm sure many of you have seen. Moreover, I think it would be possible to adapt OotS, though it would have to be in a more concentrated form than the strip, and the "flavor" of it would be somewhat different. On the other hand, though I speak both as an animation fan and one who believes animation writing has improved immensely in the fairly recent past (I grew up with things like Goober and the Ghost Chasers, God help me), I still think that it would be far more likely that without constant oversight by the Giant the writing on any toon version would very quickly fall to the level of mere "clever-clever" pop culture references and quips, without a solid story arc behind it. It would depend a great deal, of course, on which particular animation company picked it up.

Scarlet Knight

2009-08-23, 08:05 AM

I have this image of Durkon giving a moral at the end of each episode in the way they used to end the "He-Man" cartoons.

:durkon: "Now remember, lads & lassies, if 'n ye find ye 'ave 2 sand witches, it's nae nice to hog them, 'n not share wit' someone who jus' spent the night bumpin' uglies wit' ya'! "

Omergideon

2009-08-23, 09:10 AM

I think that the OoTS could work very well as an animated story so long as they do a few things. Most have likely been mentioned before, so if you said it first I simply agree with you.

1) Keep the artwork style the same or very similar. Stick figures could work very well if animated right. The tricky part is to animate all of the expected action sequences whilst still keeping an apparently 2D image. I for one would not be a fan of South Park level animation, but having seen a number of well animated stick figure cartoons I know it is doable.

2) Adapt the plot. I think that keeping the plot as a focus from the start would work better, allthough the character based humour from the early strips is good enough for early episodes. Any comics that rely purely on medium based jokes (such as Haley stealing the cast page diamond) would most likely need some alteration. For instance she could steal it from the opening sequence. Being willing to do so would be essential.

3) Related to the above, there would be large changes to the pacing if it were to work. Many comics have a pacing of the jokes meant to build to a final panel or other such effect. In a sense almost every strip has a climax, a definate finshing point. Whilst this works in a comic strip allowing each issue to be read indiviually and enjoyed on it's own they would need to flow slightly more effectively in order to work as a 25 minute (say) episode.

4) You would need to excise some of the less needed strips and add new material to fill time in order to make good episodes. I feel that the best way to get episodes out of this would be to find natural breaks or cliffhangers in the story, and for each one create an episode. For instance, the whole sequence of Miko discovering about Shojo, her fall, the fights attending it and the coda at the end with Roy agreeing to help out Azure city would form a good solid episode and there are no other natural breaks in the flow close enough on either side of them to work well. However a small amount of extra material might need to be added to fill out the time requirements even when you allow for showing fights in more detail.

5) You would need to keep many of the jokes as writ. The 2 main sources of humour are the characters themselves (which can be adapted with ease) and the crazyness of the world they live in, i.e. a DnD based world. If you removed either of these the it would fall down. now I have at best a passing knowledge of DnD. I have played it, but not in detail. Still I am able to enjoy many of the world jokes and there is enough character based humour that I am always highly satisfied.

6) Rich would be at least the executive producer. No arguements. His work, his plans.

Overall I think animated movies would work better for tOoTS, with each volume acting as a rough guide of what goes into each movie. But a series would be doable so long as the people making it were careful.

Zolkabro

2009-08-23, 10:39 AM

I might be interested in an animated version, if none of the main characters ever has a speaking part in it. Let it tell the story of Team Peregrine, or the Order of the Scribble, or something. Good idea, great way of expanding the backstory.

I really like that idea. Not just Team Peregrine and Order of the Scribble, all kinds of things in Oots pop up, don't tell you much backstory, then disappear. It would be great if we had things about their respective histories. Not just in TV series' and animations, but you could make whole webcomics about things like that.

CarpeGuitarrem

2009-08-23, 11:01 AM

I say we do a That Halberd Guy spinoff.

the_tick_rules

2009-08-23, 07:06 PM

Why not? I like it.

Tannhaeuser

2009-08-23, 08:57 PM

Heh, I would love to see Roy & Co. meet up with these guys (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/Tannhaeuser/OotS-DungeonsDragonsCartoon-small.jpg).

But seriously, it does raise the irritating question of Executive Meddling. Things that "the spooky wizard who lives by the coast" would let slide in a web-comic become curiously actionable when turned into a popular television series, and kow-towing to a corporate entity might have a bad effect on the writing. I believe that was one of the factors that burdened the writers on the old He-Man and the Masters of the Universe series -- continual executive meddling from Mattel, not to mention from Filmation itself, which, as Scarlet Knight pointed out, burdened every episode with Educational Expert Approved morals. It was bad enough on the old Dungeons & Dragons cartoon, when Action Figures like WarDuke, StrongHeart, and Kelek kept showing up (not that Kelek wasn't a badass villain), and when CBS made constant Standards & Practices alterations--for instance, one episode that featured a Luftwaffe pilot not only censored all the swastikas (so that the episode could be shown in the German market, where display of Nazi emblems is severely limited by law), but every reference to Germany and World War II itself as well. And of course no one was allowed to die on any show, or sometimes even to hold a gun (the Filmation artists once submitted a gag storyboard showing He-Man bludgeoning Skeletor into submission with a pineapple.) I joked about it above, but Scarlet Knight is quite right; the idea of the hero of a kiddie show (because, you know, all animation and fantasy are for children) (ARGHHH!) actually indulging in mindless slaughter would be unthinkable. I doubt if even Rich could talk his way past them, even with a Suggestion spell, despite a combined network Wisdom score of -5... or rather, because of it. Because Stupid sells.

tribble

2009-08-23, 09:54 PM

Personally, I would be happy as long as Roy's voice actor is Samuel L. Jackson.

Zolkabro

2009-08-24, 08:19 AM

The voice actor for Larry Gardener HAS to be Daniel Radcliffe

Scarlet Knight

2009-08-24, 02:18 PM

And the voice of the owner of the polearm shop must be Michael Palin! Wait, we're drifting into another thread...

:smallwink:

Zolkabro

2009-08-25, 12:07 PM

:belkar: needs to be voice acted by Chuck Norris.
I'm not sure who the actor for Voldemort was, but he should voice act :xykon:

Tannhaeuser

2009-08-25, 03:07 PM

I'm not sure who the actor for Voldemort was, but he should voice act :xykon:.

Ralph Fiennes.

I really don't see (hear?) a British actor for Xykon, because to American ears, British = "classy" -- and Xykon isn't. He's a deliberately brutal kind of character, more of a Jack Nicholson type of villain than a Christopher Lee. As the Giant said, he's not only evil -- he's also kind of a ****.

I kind of like Starscream (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=36540)'s cast list in the Casting the OotS Movie thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121533), except that I am not quite sure about Frank Welker as Xykon (though Frank would no doubt be busy doing ALL of the animals in the cartoon), and I wish he had sneaked Nicole Sullivan in there somewhere (Lien?). Still, pretty good stuff.

Somehow I imagine all the Hobgoblins with German accents and Redcloak in contrast as very exasperated and American or British, à la Jimmy Cagney in One, Two, Three or John Cleese in Fawlty Towers. (Heh, I can totally hear John Cleese as Redcloak.)

Lord Seth

2009-08-25, 03:44 PM

I joked about it above, but Scarlet Knight is quite right; the idea of the hero of a kiddie show (because, you know, all animation and fantasy are for children) (ARGHHH!) actually indulging in mindless slaughter would be unthinkable. I doubt if even Rich could talk his way past them, even with a Suggestion spell, despite a combined network Wisdom score of -5... or rather, because of it. Because Stupid sells.But the thing is, OOTS isn't for kids. There's violence, some swearing, and some sex (albeit off screen). Of course it'll get messed up if it's broadcast as a kid's show, because it's not a kid's comic. To be fair, there have been times when they took a comic more geared towards teenagers or older and turned it into a kid's show (Static Shock, and come to think of it, most of the DCAU) but those were a bit different than Order of the Stick. For example, Batman: The Animated Series was largely not based on any plots from the comics, but instead took the premise and made their own plots based on that, and they even changed some parts of the premise (e.g. they completely skipped over Jason Todd and went straight to Tim Drake) Same thing with Static Shock and the other ones I can think of.

But OOTS doesn't quite work that way. The first thing is it has a much more continuity-driven story than the Batman comics. It's kind of hard for me to explain, but with OOTS it would be more important to be following the plot rather than just the premise. Which would mean if it was made for kids there would have to be a lot of bowdlerization. Of course, the other option is to gear it towards the older crowd, but I can't see it making it anywhere other than Adult Swim, and even that seems a bit iffy a place to put it. It's really just not a series that's really cut out for a TV show.

A flash animation might be a different matter, but I think we're talking about an actual show here.

Tannhaeuser

2009-08-25, 05:34 PM

I agree, OotS is not for kids. Unfortunately, most animation is horrendously expensive and time-consuming, and most network executives would not care to risk money on an adult animated series or on a serious fantasy series, as such series have tended not to do well outside a very narrow target audience -- especially when that audience seems largely content with shows (such as Avatar) that appeal equally to younger demographics as well. Only if OotS were a Star Wars-sized phenomenon would a network consider a series based on it -- and most likely it would end up resembling the strip about as much as the execrable Star Wars Holiday Special resembled the film that inspired it.

Still, one can dream.

Scarlet Knight

2009-08-25, 10:56 PM

Can you see OOTS as a South Park episode? It would be the perfect style of animation ( maybe too similar) and they could do the adult humor. If it catches on, then put it out as a spin off.

Optimystik

2009-08-26, 12:10 AM

Zolkabro

2009-08-26, 04:17 AM

Ralph Fiennes.

I really don't see (hear?) a British actor for Xykon, because to American ears, British = "classy" -- and Xykon isn't. He's a deliberately brutal kind of character, more of a Jack Nicholson type of villain than a Christopher Lee. As the Giant said, he's not only evil -- he's also kind of a ****.

I kind of like Starscream (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=36540)'s cast list in the Casting the OotS Movie thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121533), except that I am not quite sure about Frank Welker as Xykon (though Frank would no doubt be busy doing ALL of the animals in the cartoon), and I wish he had sneaked Nicole Sullivan in there somewhere (Lien?). Still, pretty good stuff.

Somehow I imagine all the Hobgoblins with German accents and Redcloak in contrast as very exasperated and American or British, à la Jimmy Cagney in One, Two, Three or John Cleese in Fawlty Towers. (Heh, I can totally hear John Cleese as Redcloak.)

I thought of everyone with a british accent automatically except the guy in the Polearm Emourium, because I'm british. I also think that if English counts as 'classy' then Xykon should be british. He's brutish, yes, but Lawful Evil with a sense of humour = 'classy'.

:vaarsuvius: needs to be voice acted by somebody from Star Wars.

Tannhaeuser

2009-08-26, 08:06 PM

Can you see OOTS as a South Park episode?

Well, South Park is a show I have never cared much for, myself. Still, it does seem to be popular, and I suppose OotS could piggy back off of it. I wonder, though, if a more likely route would not be web-animations first, that might later be picked up by an anthology series like Adult Swim or Toonami, in short segments at first, but building eventually to a half-hour or so stand-alone series. Isn't that more or less what Dexter's Lab and Johnny Bravo did?

Send it to Korea, problem solved.

Well, yes and no. Korean animation is relatively inexpensive -- but only relative to animation. Live action is still much, much cheaper. And it still doesn't address the question of why networks wouldn't prefer a show that will appeal to kids as well as to adults. We might consider it ruining the story to bowdlerize all the sex and violence and everything that might run the risk of making a ten-year-old actually have to run to the encyclopedia to look it up, but most networks would cheerfully take the cash and let the credit go. Remember, Laverne and Shirley ran longer on TV than did The Twilight Zone (and spawned sequels and a cartoon, which TZ didn't). As I said before, stupid sells.

I thought of everyone with a British accent automatically except the guy in the Polearm Emporium, because I'm British.

Eh? But the guy in the Polearm Emporium is Michael Palin! Is zis your famous Englischer zense of humour? Have mercy; I'm half-German, and sometimes I can't tell.

I also think that if English counts as 'classy' then Xykon should be British. He's brutish, yes, but Lawful Evil with a sense of humour = 'classy'.

Funny, I have never seen Xykon as Lawful Evil, at all. He seems to me about as Chaotic as they come. Isn't he actually referred to as Chaotic Evil somewhere in the strip? And somehow I don't hear Britons saying, "Gotcha" -- but to be fair, I don't hear most Americans saying "cheeky (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0659.html)," either. Bearing in mind that all the British actors I'm familiar with are either dead or doddering, I will say I could see John Cleese (who has, I believe, voiced several cartoons) as Xykon, too, which I suppose could cover the Lawful or Chaotic interpretations--but who will be my British Redcloak then? Maybe someone could cast Resurrect on the late Sir Nigel Hawthorne? He would have been nicely bureaucratic enough.

All I can say is, keep the whole production miles away from Disney. Otherwise, Roy will be Patrick Warburton, Xykon will be Dan Castellaneta, and Belkar will end up as a silky shoeless guy of action -- and they'll airbrush shoes in when some mother writes in to say her child stepped on a nail while going barefoot. Arrrggghhh!