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The_JJ
2009-08-04, 02:16 AM
So yeah, you always see the thread pop up 'what should I read?' I figured I start a thread about good books works that are less well known. Here I can do things like elaborate with out fearing that the thread (and thus all the, uh, 'hard' work) would die. Well, it'll probably die, but I can always just go 'LINK' and be done. And so can you!

(I harbor a secret hope that one day a thread I start might be... *gulp* stickied! Nah, it'll never happen.)

Stuff that people should already know is regarded as awesome includes, but is not limited to:
In rough categories.
Ender's Game (Little kids save the world by playing video games. Only not.)
Star Wars (Yeah.)
Star Trek (Not to be confused with the above)
Tim Zahn's Star Wars novels (Thraaaaawn is a bit of a memetic god)
Some of the WH40k novels (I know their well known within the community. Halp?)
Dune (Sandworms man.)
Foundation/I, Robot (Remember the Will Smith movie. That, except not at all)
Firefly (You can't take the... damnit Fox!)

A SoIaF (realism and plots. And dragons. And twincest. And dead charactors all over the place.)
the WoT (Doorstopper (and charactor) madness aside)
Conan the Barbarian et al.
Discworld (Sir Pratchett rocks. No exceptions.)
LotR + the Hobbit (The Hobbit was better! :smalltongue:)

OoTS
Erf
xkcd (Science!)

Stuff by HP Lovecraft (The horror, the horror.)
Dracula by Bram Stoker (Much abused creation... the sparkles man. The sparkles! Oh god...)

D20 System
GURPS


And the rest are so ubiquitous my mind can't even think of them, or exist but in genra's outside of my narrow intrests. Again, halp plz. Something picks up enough votes as 'should be known,' or is just obvious, I'll toss it up.

If you don't know about these then you can rest assured that they are considered, by most, to be pretty damn good. Most everything not in these categories are not discussed as often and so require the mini reviews and of course, the 'this is my opinion' caveat.

Format, in general, should look like this:
Name of work by Person If Aplicable
Description of it and why you like it.
Basic plot/premise (if there is one)

You'll enjoy this if you like: X, Y, or Z. Where X is other possibly better know works, Y is specific setting or charactorization types, and Z is whatever else.
You won't find: D, E, and F where if you like D, E, and F you may be disappointed. (I believe no genras exclusive, so it's not that 'you'll hate it if you like...' because it can be very condesending. I can like both Star Trek and Star Wars! Even if Star War is better. Prequels don't count. And neither does most of the EU. Focus!)

Other playgrounders comments:

I'll (and hopefully you'll) stick around to see the 'me too' and the 'yes but' posts, and can edit their quotes into here.

Here goes:

Hyperion by Dan Simmons.
Take a Space Opera. Add Canterbury Tales and an English major. Then throw on some HP Lovecraft scaryness and have a bad acid trip. Season with cyberpunk, religion questions, searches for meaning, and mystery. Then add awesome writing. Seriously the only book that made me come this close to crying since Aslan died, waaaaay back when I was 5. And it did so twice. It also scared the everloving **** out of me a few times to.

Okay, so the basic premise is that there are a bunch of pilgrims (Canterbury Tales, remember?) going to this shrine as the galaxy goes haywire around them. At the shire there are temporal paradoxes and a scary mofo known as the Shrike (Lovercraft on bad acid meets Sauron from the Jackson films and decides it's to 'pansy.') Each pilgrim tells their tale of why they're here and going to this place. There is a preist with a recording from another preist. Another is a very old man and his very young daugter. Then there is the most badass space marine ever, searching for his lost love... or revenge. A Nutso author trying to finish his book supplies some comic relief (and then segues into crazy scary). One is a politician with a whole closetful of skeletons, and there's a policewoman with a dead boyfriend.

It also has sequels.

You'll enjoy this if you like: Space Operas, unorthodox pacing, 'good' books. There's also a bit of every genre here. Cyberpunk, spehse mahrine, horror, private eye shenanigains, romance (yeah, I was suprised I liked it too...)
You won't find: lighthearted fare, some of the jokes/element/the goddamn koans. And err... there's some stuff Christians, Catholics in particular, might very well take offense to, though I'm sure it's unintentional. Or at least constructive critism. Ish. Well... the Padre is nice you know, but there's the evil cruifixes and the... I'll stop now. Needless to say, take the symbols the wrong way, and it becomes a bit extreme.

Other playgrounders comments:

You forgot to mention the recurring Keats shout-outs, such as the title itself.

Also, given the plot of the Endymion books I find it hard to believe that the anti-Catholic message isn't intentional. But then who actually likes the Catholic church.

Finally, Illium and Olympus are very good as well. In the future, the Post-Humans are recreating the story of Troy on Mars because... I guess becoming living gods makes you insane or maybe they are just really, really bored. Meanwhile on Earth, things are all kinds of messed up. And robots from the moons of Jupiter get involved as well. Said robots spend several chapters discussing their interest in old human literature.
To talk about the Catholic = bad undertones, the idea is that the church is being manipulated by AI's. Wheather this is saying 'the Catholic church is evil and should be destroyed' or possibly, if we feeling generous, 'Organized Religion(tm) is vunerable to corruption, also, humans will sell compromise the true beliefs of their souls their Church for immortality. The obvious stand in for Organized Relgion (tm), because making up a new religion would be silly, is the Catholic Church.
Then again, there is also much talk of 'evolving to godhead' and such, which is pretty damn herectical.

If it really makes you feel dirty just pick up one of Orson Scott Card's Mormon books.



The Black Company by Glen Cook.
This is a standard fantasy world from the point of view of a lowly mercenary soldier. It has more or less everything I love in a good book. Relatable charactors, multidimensional and dynamic charactors, moral grey areas (in a conflict between the dark Empire of the Lady and the Rebellion of the White Rose, no less. And yes, it's more than just the good guys kicking puppies and that being okay), fun action in the right amounts, clever action and plots, and doses of humor.

Croaker, our PoV for the first few books, is the physician and annalist of the venerable and reputable but ailing mercenary company the Black Company. After some shenangains that introduce us to the Company and it's modus operandi, they are hired by a masked sorceror and taken to the North for new adventures, where it is promptly sucked into a war and political enviroment dominated by powerful mages. The Company must rely on it's wits and grit to stay alive and preserve itself as the Empire and the Rebel face off. Meanwhile, greater evils lurk, as they are wont to do.

You'll enjoy this if you like: The Song of Ice and Fire, the more militant and less 'hippy' Sci-Fi, first person stories and getting attached to main charactors (as opposed to, well, the Song of Ice and Fire.) Schlock Mercenary.
You won't find: Amazing feats of heroism, clear cut villany, particularly heroic protagonists.

Other playgrounders comments:


The Black Company by Glen Cook.
It's a dark, fairly low-magic fantasy setting. The main characters are soldiers in a mercenary company, so the story is told from the perspective of the grunts in the army. Rather than glory-hounding heroes, they're a bunch of guys that just want to get the job done so they can get paid. It's a wonderfully refreshing break from all the fantasy stories that have clear lines of good and evil.


JJ, totally backing up your recommendation of The Black Company. The first three books are amazing, gripping and original.




The Collected Stories of Arthur C. Clarke by the man himself.
If you like hard sci-fi in the slightest way you owe it to yourself to pick up this and Rendezvous with Rama by the very same man. His is an SF god, and yet some how he is overlooked these days. (Space Odessy aside (yes we are dealing with the creator of Hal and the last minute crazyness here (yeah, I just nested parentheseses... eses... bananana PRATCHETT,[/crazy] whatcha gonna do about it?)))

You'll enjoy this if you like: Sci-Fi, Hard Sci-Fi, communcations sattalites and the ISS, Asimov and Bradbury, short stories, lot's of pages.
You won't find: Novel length plots. (it's a bunch of short stories)

Other playgrounders comments:
Go here


And to prove the versitility and all encompassing nature of this thread/format:
Total War 2125 by Playgrounders, but GM'd by Odin
See my siglink. It's a messy, convoluted freeform roleplaying/nation game, and was really super awesome fun. Ressurection attempts have gone less well. Time constraints killed my attempt to GM one recently. :smallfrown:

You'll enjoy this if you like: Other people incoherently telling you how much fun they had doing something you don't understand. Following a million intersecting plots and missing vital info sent by PM's. Posturing political speeches. Me selfpromoting. In jokes you aren't privy too.
You won't find: Anything approching readability, understanding, or what have you.
Other playgrounders comments:
KHAAAAAAAAN!!!
-me.
Okay, in general, you should pick something that some one else might like to read. I mean, you might like to read the thread, but I kinda doubt it. Give it a go if you want.

Blank Template
Title by author(s)

stuff
more stuff

You'll enjoy this if you like:
You won't find:

Other playgrounders comments:
Go here

endoperez
2009-08-04, 03:54 AM
The Wizard Knight duology (as one book, or as the books The Knight, The Wizard), by Gene Wolfe
It's a story about an epic adventure in a fantastic land, full of monsters and chivalric knights and gods and spirits. The only difference to normal fantasy fare is how everything in the world is presented. Giants are terrible because of everything their size implies, like the fact that they need lots of slaves to grow all the food they need for themselves. It's like reading an epic story that later would become something like Beowulf, except the protagonist is scared, almost dies many times, and the choices he makes really are terrible. To this day, it's the only book I almost put down because I was afraid to read on and see what would happen.

Athaniar
2009-08-04, 05:57 AM
So, obscure but good media? Hmm...

First Wave [TV Series]
It's a sci-fi series about a man who is (wrongly) accused of killing his wife and must flee from the law while simultaneously trying to expose the reptilian-aliens-in-human-form who are behind it all and are trying to conquer the world. It was a pretty good series in my opinion.

You'll enjoy this if you like: Similar shows, such as Dark Skies and V, conspiracy theories, the whole "alien infiltration" idea, heroes on the run from the law, Traci Lords.

You won't find: Heroes working for the government, non-covert alien threats, epic space battles.

ROM Check Fail (http://www.farbs.org/games.html) [PC Game]
This fun little indie game mixes together a number of different arcade games and... well, try it for yourselves. Be warned: it's highly addictive.

You'll enjoy this if you like: Classic arcade games, weird crossovers, fast-paced challenges.

You won't find: Story, depth, a pause function.

drakh
2009-08-04, 07:11 AM
Amber Series by Roger Zelazny
Great fantasy/fiction about a multi-universe and its rulers. Interesting plot(s). Great number of interesting characters, and some surprise players.

The Pandora series:
-Destination: Void
-The Jesus Incident
-The Lazarus Effect
-The Ascension Factor
by Frank Herbert and Bill Ransom
Again an interesting story about technology, politics, religion and the way they interact.

Serpentine
2009-08-04, 07:38 AM
Plague Dogs by Richard Adams

By the same author as Watership Down with (from my understanding of that book, which I haven't read) sort-of similar themes. Two dogs escape from a horrible laboratory, possibly picking up the bubonic plague in the process. They must survive both nature and man in their search for freedom and happiness.

You'll enjoy this if you like: Watership Down, The Animals of Farthing Wood, that book of short stories about animals I can't remember, studies into the good and bad of humanity.
You won't find: Cutesy anthropomorphism, fantasy.

Other playgrounders comments:
Go here

Tailchaser's Song by Tad Williams

A fantasy story in which all the characters are cats. From memory (it's been a while), like Plague Dogs there is very little anthropomorphism. There is even a little disclaimer at the start, saying that the language has been "translated" from the cat-speech of sound, body language, scent and other cues. Very surreal, and quite scary at times.

You'll enjoy this if you like: Other Tad Williams books, Redwall, Mrs Frisby and the Rats of Nimh, surrealism, different takes on fantasy, animal psychology.
You won't find: Cutesy anthropomorphism, sunshine and lollypops, human characters.

World Zero Minus by various

This is my all-time favourite sci-fi anthology. Contributors include Arthur C. Clarke, Ray Bradbury and Isaak Asimov. The stories range from heartbreaking through thought-provoking to uplifting via horrifying. If you've seen The Illustrated Man, one of those stories - The Veldt - are in this book.

You'll enjoy this if you like: Short stories, the best sci-fi has to offer, any other works by any of the contributers, to find new authors to read.
You won't find: Sunshine and lollipops, safety and mundaneity, bug-eyed aliums and fancy-pants technology.

Zanaril
2009-08-04, 07:46 AM
By the same author as Watership Down with (from my understanding of that book, which I haven't read)

You really, really should. :smallwink:

DeafnotDumb
2009-08-04, 10:25 AM
The Temeraire Series by Naomi Novik.

I don't like books that involve dragons as the central subject. Issues like the logistics required to feed such a creature, how the world would perceive and use such creatures, how the dragons themselves would feel about being used, how to make the story original and good characterization are ignored in favor of fascination with the big shiny lizards.

Temeraire is the exception.

The series has a simple but inventive premise: dragons used as an intelligent air force in the Napoleonic Wars. It is chock full of excellent characterization and interaction with characters that you'll find it difficult not to adore. The author writes all characters, human and dragon, with personality, and the old style of the writing and the characters' speech works wonderfully with the fantasy of the novel.

You'll enjoy this if you like: Jane Austin playing DnD, Jacobian Dragons, wonderfully written relationships, characters full of personality, culture shock, dragonriding Napoleon and a world that considers the impact that dragons would have.
You won't find: Dragons that blindly obey their riders, anachronistic writing speech and style or bland characters.

The Wire

"This is Baltimore. The gods will not save you."

Gods, where do I start?

I could (and have) talk about how good this series is for hours. I could tell you about how intelligently, with a lack of bias, this deals with the issues of here and now. I could tell you how sprawling it is, giving a picture of an entire city. And even that would not give you quite the picture of how good it is.

The Wire is the pinnacle of television: it is the best show made so far and will remain so for a very, very long time. It is the only TV show that can challenge (and beat) the books I have on my shelf as my favorite and best works of fiction. Tom Wolfe, Terry Pratchett, Philip K. ****- I'd wipe the entire works of one of these authors out of existence if only I could get another season of The Wire.

The Wire demands your attention. It trusts your intelligence. It trusts that you do not need everything explained to you right away, that you can work things out for yourself, that you can follow the stories it tells. And it rewards you so, so much.

Without talking about the stuff in the first paragraph, The Wire is like an inversion of your traditional cop show. It spends as much time focusing on the criminals as the police. It doesn't insult the complexity of humanity by prescribing people to be good or evil- it values a person as a human and shows you them, their good and their bad, whether they be a drug dealer or cop or judge or politician. The Wire uses death rarely- in the run of the show there are maybe eight deaths on screen- but each of these deaths are not just background noise, but the end of a character who's life and development you have followed across the streets of Baltimore. The deaths are not cheapened with each extra life lost, like in A Song Of Fire And Ice, because they are not presented as shocking, or jarring- you can see the circumstances that lead up to them and watch them progress as you wonder if they will be able to escape their fate. I have cried over the deaths of altruistic, kind people and cruel bastards alike, or cheered them when they escape- because they're all human, and no human's death shouldn't matter.

Every character on The Wire could lead a show by themselves- they have depth, thoughts, hidden backstories and are acted by the best character actors you've never heard of. Characters always act how they would, and everyone is treated with respect by the writers. For that matter, the script is amazing. Like many pieces of great literature, it takes time before you understand it's greatness- three or so episodes- and it takes attention. If you go to make a cup of tea while The Wire is on, then you've missed a conversation that tells you something about the future of the plot, or sets up an event that's going to happen, or shows more of a character or explains their motivation. And above all this, The Wire is entertaining.

You've read all that. Do you think you've got some idea of what makes the Wire so good? You haven't. Watch it. Now.

You'll enjoy this if you like: A show that actually respects your intelligence, an entire cast of characters who would be leads on any other show, learning the slang and life of western B'more, masterful storytelling and Omar Little.
You won't find: Exposition. Seriously. There's none of it. You have to be there from the beginning to understand, the same as a book. And you're expected to work out the slang for yourselves, for starters.

HamHam
2009-08-04, 10:30 AM
Hyperion by Dan Simmons.
Take a Space Opera. Add Canterbury Tales and an English major. Then throw on some HP Lovecraft scaryness and have a bad acid trip. Season with cyberpunk, religion questions, searches for meaning, and mystery. Then add awesome writing. Seriously the only book that made me come this close to crying since Aslan died, waaaaay back when I was 5. And it did so twice. It also scared the everloving **** out of me a few times to.

Okay, so the basic premise is that there are a bunch of pilgrims (Canterbury Tales, remember?) going to this shrine as the galaxy goes haywire around them. At the shire there are temporal paradoxes and a scary mofo known as the Shrike (Lovercraft on bad acid meets Sauron from the Jackson films and decides it's to 'pansy.') Each pilgrim tells their tale of why they're here and going to this place. There is a preist with a recording from another preist. Another is a very old man and his very young daugter. Then there is the most badass space marine ever, searching for his lost love... or revenge. A Nutso author trying to finish his book supplies some comic relief (and then segues into crazy scary). One is a politician with a whole closetful of skeletons, and there's a policewoman with a dead boyfriend.

It also has sequels.

You'll enjoy this if you like: Space Operas, unorthodox pacing, 'good' books. There's also a bit of every genre here. Cyberpunk, spehse mahrine, horror, private eye shenanigains, romance (yeah, I was suprised I liked it too...)
You won't find: lighthearted fare, some of the jokes/element/the goddamn koans. And err... there's some stuff Christians, Catholics in particular, might very well take offense to, though I'm sure it's unintentional. Or at least constructive critism. Ish. Well... the Padre is nice you know, but there's the evil cruifixes and the... I'll stop now. Needless to say, take the symbols the wrong way, and it becomes a bit extreme.

You forgot to mention the recurring Keats shout-outs, such as the title itself.

Also, given the plot of the Endymion books I find it hard to believe that the anti-Catholic message isn't intentional. But then who actually likes the Catholic church.

Finally, Illium and Olympus are very good as well. In the future, the Post-Humans are recreating the story of Troy on Mars because... I guess becoming living gods makes you insane or maybe they are just really, really bored. Meanwhile on Earth, things are all kinds of messed up. And robots from the moons of Jupiter get involved as well. Said robots spend several chapters discussing their interest in old human literature.

---------------------------

Otherland by Tad Williams

Near future sci-fi, the internet has evolved into a fully VR interface. The protagonists discover that someone has secretly made a virtual network so advanced that it seems completely real and it may be causing people to fall into comas. Epic quest ensues.

Cristo Meyers
2009-08-04, 01:37 PM
So, obscure but good media? Hmm...

First Wave [TV Series]
It's a sci-fi series about a man who is (wrongly) accused of killing his wife and must flee from the law while simultaneously trying to expose the reptilian-aliens-in-human-form who are behind it all and are trying to conquer the world. It was a pretty good series in my opinion.

You'll enjoy this if you like: Similar shows, such as Dark Skies and V, conspiracy theories, the whole "alien infiltration" idea, heroes on the run from the law, Traci Lords.

You won't find: Heroes working for the government, non-covert alien threats, epic space battles.


LOVE this show. It had me hooked when Sci-Fi was still running it (back in the age when Sci-Fi was actually more or less watchable). Who would of thought such an admittedly goofy premise (preventing an alien invasion by following the prophecies of Nostradamus) would've made such a good sci-fi show?

chiasaur11
2009-08-04, 01:48 PM
Armor, by John Steakley.

It's the future, and, wouldn't you know it, mankind's power armored troops are in a bug war. Big shock, I know. On the upside, we got the bugs pinned down to one planet. On the downside, despite really good combat armor, humans trying to fight said bugs die. A lot.

The only guys with a worse gig than the grunts are the scouts. Worse armor, first into any bad situation (but not the last) and generally get the #**@ end of the stick.

If you guessed our protagonist, one Felix, drops as a scout, you hit the bullseye.

It doesn't go well for him. Or for anybody, really.

And, in addition to an excellent bug war bit that actually bothers to examine the psychological effects of a war where everyone around you drops like flies, there's another plot regarding a notorious criminal trying to infiltrate a research project.

It's exactly the sort of book one finds in Sci-Fi dollar bins with one exception.

It is really, really good.

Teron
2009-08-04, 05:04 PM
But then who actually likes the Catholic church.
I don't want to invoke mod wrath over an off-hand comment, but come on, there's no call for that.

Ah, that aside, thanks for reminding me about Armor, chiasaur11. I heard good things about it at some point and promptly forgot it; I'll be sure to add it to my list this time. Is it hard to find?

Also, come to think of it, I'm thinking of picking up Jim Butcher's Codex Alera series soon. Any opinions on it?

Prime32
2009-08-04, 05:50 PM
TTA

Flash series of astounding length based on an RP. Starts awful, gets epic by the end. Inspired by .hack// and Megaman.EXE. Fills me with nostalgia - watch if you have a curious inner child.

The style is unusual - it's mostly sprite-based, though interspersed with traditional animation. It also has a large vocal cast. The season finales are fully voiced and fully animated, and the movie is sprites with full voice acting, but otherwise the voices are mostly limited to Calling Your Attacks.

I wrote some of the TVTropes article, so I don't feel guilty in linking to it (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTomeAdventures). :smalltongue:

Here's an anime-style opening (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e6L5fW4k_k&fmt=18) he did for it. If you note that some of the characters look rather similar to some copyrighted ones, that's intentional - they're MMORPG avatars and pointed out as derivative in the series itself.

JMobius
2009-08-04, 05:55 PM
Carnivale, a TV show by HBO

"Before the beginning, after the great war between Heaven and Hell, God created the Earth and gave dominion over it to the crafty ape he called man. And to each generation was born a creature of light and a creature of darkness. And great armies clashed by night in the ancient war between good and evil. There was magic then, nobility, and unimaginable cruelty. And so it was until the day that a false sun exploded over Trinity, and man forever traded away wonder for reason."

A Depression-era story about the last battle of the final generation of true demigods. By a fair margin, my favorite show ever. It combines an interesting actual mythology with nigh unparalleled writing, directing, and acting. It manages to captivate me with a historic setting that I otherwise had little interest in.

The 4400, a TV show by USA

Over the course of the last century, there have been a great many missing persons, and sadly the fate of many of them lies ultimately unresolved. The story begins, when 4400 of these lost souls reappear suddenly outside Seattle, each seemingly unaged from the time they disappeared, and none with any recollection of where they have been. While the gradual reintegration of these people into the world that has left them behind is filled with many both joys and sorrows, suspicions begin to rise when many of them begin to display new and interesting talents...

An interesting series about superpowered people, but with less of Heroes' emphasis on "look how cool these abilities are!" and more on the implication of these talents on society, and how the rest of the world responds.

The Lost Room, a miniseries by SciFi

In about the middle of the 20th century, something happened. No one knows quite what it was, but a solitary hotel room in a remote part of the country was erased from existence, and its contents scattered across the world. These remnants are hunted down and fought over by collectors, for a very important reason: Each possesses a unique supernatural ability. From the watch that cooks eggs, to the comb that stops time, to the dozens of others which have yet to have their properties identified, each is a priceless artifact... and many are interested in what will happen when all of the Objects are unified once again.

You'll note that untimely death is a running theme with my favorite series... :smallannoyed:

bosssmiley
2009-08-05, 08:11 AM
- A Song of Delays and Repetition by GRRM
+ Memory, Thorn and Sorrow by Tad Williams

MT&S (which was actually finished within a year of the deadline (http://grrrm.livejournal.com/)) is what GRRM cries himself to sleep over wishing he had the talent to write. It is stark and scary, and has shades of Tolkien in a good way.

- Wheel of Endlessness by Robert Jordan
+ the Drenai Saga by David Gemmell

The Drenai novels are ostensible fantasy stories which combine believable characters, squalor and grittiness, and cascading crowning moments of awesome. All written with an economy of words that shows most fantasy doorstoppers up for the bloated mess they are.

+ the Kane stories (Bloodstone, Dark Crusade, Night Winds, etc) by Karl Edward Wagner

Surprisingly hard to find, given just how good they are. The saga of Red Kane are grim enough to make REH's sword-and-sorcery tales read like the Care Bears. Expect no happy endings, but cunning, resilience and grandeur.

Serpentine
2009-08-05, 08:31 AM
- A Song of Delays and Repetition by GRRM
+ Memory, Thorn and Sorrow by Tad Williams

MT&S (which was actually finished within a year of the deadline (http://grrrm.livejournal.com/)) is what GRRM cries himself to sleep over wishing he had the talent to write. It is stark and scary, and has shades of Tolkien in a good way.For a moment, I was excited because someone else likes this series. Then I realised that you got the name wrong :smallsigh: :smalltongue:
It's Memory, Sorrow and Thorn :smallwink:

Eldan
2009-08-05, 08:46 AM
I don't actually see why Memory, Sorrow & Thorn should be superior to Song of Ice and Fire... I like both, but while MS&T has perhaps the slightly more interesting world and atmosphere, the plot is just so incredibly predictable from the first time a prophecy is mentioned...

arguskos
2009-08-05, 08:52 AM
It's not truly little known, but not enough people have read The Elric Saga by Michael Moorecock.

It's if you take classic Swords and Sorcery fiction, mix in some dark humor, a bit of brooding, and one of the most tragic heroes to ever grace the page, and give it all to an author who can actually write in a way that, while a touch dry, it actually all works together. Through the six book series (I only count the core six books, the newer derivatives make me sad inside), you can watch the evolution of Elric from king to fugitive to champion. You'll cry with him, you'll feel his pain and need, and you'll be moved by his struggles.

You won't find Tolkienian descriptions, sappy emo crap, or cardboard characters.

Mystic Muse
2009-08-05, 11:49 AM
I liked "blood legacy the house of Alexander." in fact I'm getting the sequel today. (the one I mentioned is the second book in the series. I haven't read the first.) it's sort of a vampire book but the characters aren't actually vampires. they greatly resemble vampires though..

oh and Buffy the Vampire Slayer is also good.:smalltongue: If you're a rather conservative Catholic I'd stay away from it though. if you don't believe me you'll see why after watching it a while.

The Rose Dragon
2009-08-05, 12:20 PM
oh and Buffy the Vampire Slayer is also good.:smalltongue: If you're a rather conservative Catholic I'd stay away from it though. if you don't believe me you'll see why after watching it a while.

Except everyone has heard of BtVS. And their mom. And their little dog, too.

Mystic Muse
2009-08-05, 12:28 PM
Except everyone has heard of BtVS. And their mom. And their little dog, too.


actually until these forums I'd never heard of it. and I saw that post in the forums when I was sixteen.

and I'm still sixteen.

The Rose Dragon
2009-08-05, 12:46 PM
actually until these forums I'd never heard of it. and I saw that post in the forums when I was sixteen.

and I'm still sixteen.

Then I'm afraid you can't blame the world for your ignorance of one of the greatest TV shows ever.

Well, at least the first five seasons. Minus the fourth.

Mystic Muse
2009-08-05, 02:03 PM
Then I'm afraid you can't blame the world for your ignorance of one of the greatest TV shows ever.

Well, at least the first five seasons. Minus the fourth.

now now lets not insult the sixteen year old who's never heard of anything.:smalltongue:

sorry. I can't think of anything else that everybody's mother, sister and little dog hasn't heard of.

The Rose Dragon
2009-08-05, 02:11 PM
now now lets not insult the sixteen year old who's never heard of anything.:smalltongue:

It's OK, you're forgiven.

As long as you don't like Angel more than pre-Spikeification Spike.

Athaniar
2009-08-05, 02:34 PM
The Sentinel [TV Series]
An interesting light-light-fantasy series about a cop who got enhanced senses from spending some time in the jungle, an ability he keeps secret in order to gain the upper hand against the city's criminals. His anthropologist sidekick helps him deal with this power. Some episodes tend to rely on his abilities to a large extent (such as its only two-parter, featuring Jeri "Seven of Nine" Ryan), while some hardly even bother mentioning it. It's an entertaining show that doesn't take itself too seriously.

You'll enjoy this if you like: Police shows, small dashes of fantasy/pseudo-sci-fi, action in general.

You won't find: More serious, methodical, high techonology crime-solving.

Mystic Muse
2009-08-05, 02:37 PM
It's OK, you're forgiven.

As long as you don't like Angel more than pre-Spikeification Spike.

pre-spikeification spike? you mean the seventh season one? or the one we meet in the second season.

if you mean the one in the second season then yeah I like spike a heck of a lot better than angel. he was the best badguy in the series. although Angel was a decent badguy I guess.

if you mean the seventh season one? nah I like angel better. although he needed a better name.

theMycon
2009-08-05, 03:06 PM
Jurgen, from James Branch Cabell.
His most famous book, which gained the national spotlight from a trial for obscenity, back in the 1920's. It is... hilarious, insightful, and depressing as hell. It's high-fantasy before Tolkein had even considered his world, which demands a lot from the reader (they put out a "Notes on Jurgen" (http://home.earthlink.net/~davidrolfe/jurgen.htm) side-book, to help you get all the references), but pays dividends. Not only does it pick apart literary cliches , it tells us why we want to see them, and why the author wants to put them in- and still engrossed me and made me see myself in the main character's feet.
And then there's there's the last ten chapters- Heaven, Hell, and The Manager's Office. If you can get through them without questioning what you're doing with your life, you're probably already dead inside.

You'll enjoy this if you like: Voltaire's "Candide", pretty much any Heinlein, social philosophy, TV-Tropes.com, or parody-religions.
You won't find: Dragons, elves, or fair fights. Respect for anything. Direct statements of the most obscene bits ("though now maidens in name only...")


Of his other books, I'd recommend Domnei: A Comedy of Woman Worship for the best definition of love I'd ever seen, and a good story, unfortunately wrapped up in every change the english language has made over the past 95 years.
The Silver Stallion, for the funniest way the world ends (involving God asking his immediate superior "Would you please stop this before it gets out of hand?" and getting a reply along the lines of "I know what I'm doing. If it gets too bad, I'll just destroy the universe. Now get me some coffee."), clearing the holes in all the rest of the stories he wrote, and the word "tinsel-glitter." The ending brought me from utter elation to sitting still, staring at the book, mid-sentence, with my mouth open, for about five minutes, before I put the book down, cried a little, and then decided I was too macho to cry and drank 'til I couldn't feel feelings any more. That's what it took to get through.
The Cream of the Jest- because it's his second most popular book, after Jurgen. I guess it's the same message as Life of Pi, but the story's nothing too great (entertaining though it is). It does make you truly appreciate what's unimportant in life, though.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Mere Entertainment:

Strangers with Candy & Upright Citizens Brigade, by Comedy Central
Back in their surreal days; between the "throw funny against the wall and see what sticks" days when they were basically MTV-2, and the "targetted audience, shows with plot & parody" of today; they seemingly blundered on these two gems. They have a theme but no real plot, and they have random humor but it's at least aimed at the same idea, and they never let one get in the way of the other without a good reason.


SWC is basically a more realistic look at your average after-school special, except the main character is the only person dumb enough to get into those positions- someone who's as old as the writers but hasn't got a highschool education. She's based on Sylvia Frumpkin, a diagnosed schizophrenic who spent most of her life in and out of sanitariums, most of which made her worse, as chronicled in Susan Sheehan's book "Is There No Place on Earth for Me?". It's unabashedly offensive and contains some humor for people both of the age they see the films it parodies, and valuable/realistic advice to those of us who are old enough to know who Wilfred Brimley actually is. Oh, yeah- he guest-stars a few times.

You'll enjoy this if you like: Daria, Affectionate Parodies, Druggie-humor, practical guides to dealing with highschool. Larc spies naked. Laughing at those more fortunate than you. Serious psychological research going into an entirely comedic character.
You won't find: Character growth or a serious story. Consistent levels of quality (Avoid end of season 1). Political correctness.

UCB is basically... Monty Python, as written by Anarcho-libertarians. Very, very American ones, with a rabbi thrown in for Cultural Breadth.

You'll enjoy this if you like: Monty Python, Bioshock, Fiddler on the Roof, Brazil
You won't find: Ayn Rand taken seriously.

Prime32
2009-08-05, 04:49 PM
pre-spikeification spike? you mean the seventh season one? or the one we meet in the second season.Spikeification was the old name for a trope at TVTropes. To avoid confusion, it's now named Badass Decay (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadAssDecay).

pita
2009-08-05, 04:56 PM
I realize The Wire has been mentioned, but it hasn't been commended enough. Almost definitely objectively speaking the best television show ever made. Possibly the best creation ever to grace a screen. This show is everything and more. It's been said that the DVD box set of the show could go on a shelf with Literature's Greatest Classics. It's a tragecomedy police election school street and newspaper drama with well made, realistic characters, an important message made clearer and sharper every season that still doesn't overshadow the magnificient plot. It has memorable characters such as Jimmy McNulty, Lester Freamon, Omar Little, Brother Mouzone, Stringer Bell, Avon Barksdale, D'Angelo Barksdale, and almost all of the rest on the show. It has scenes that are unrivaled in their brilliance, like McNulty screwing up- a whorehouse investigation (Nudity, so no youtube link. None of the others are SFW either, but mostly because of language. Also, mild spoilers), The F*** Investigation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQbsnSVM1zM&feature=related), D'Angelo analyzing The Great Gatsby (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M2AUYYKfxk), and pretty much every scene with Om (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYj7q_by_2E&feature=related)ar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP-lrftLQaQ), who is badass incarnate, despite the obvious badass drawback that he's gay. It has characters you have to hate, like Cheese and Levy, and characters it's impossible not to love, like Bubbles. Every single character leaves a mark, and no two characters are a cookie cutter mold. This is a show of unrivaled brilliance that never re-uses a plot, never makes a message that doesn't hit, and never leaves the viewer feeling like they've missed out. The main message of the show is that everything happens in cycles, a message well delivered every single scene of every single episode of every single episode.
Each season has a different location, with a different spotlight.
The first season has the streets, the hood, as its spotlight. Its main villain is Avon Barksdale, a drug lord operating there.
The second season is about the docks. Its main villain is Frank Sobotka, a union worker who... hates spoilers.
I've only just started the third season, so I can't really say what it's about, only that it looks good. I think it's about politics, but I can't be sure at this point.
The fourth season I know is about the school system.
The fifth season is about the newspaper.
The show's problems? There are few, but I need to mention them anyway.
1: It's slow. It's hard to get into. Each season starts with a few episodes introducing all of the new characters and showing what's happened to the old ones. And it's 55 minute episodes, each one of them feeling like more because of the information overload. Binge-ing on the show is possible, but ill advised, and I think may cause brain damage after the third episode. I've never been able to pass the 2 episode mark.
2: The fifth season is supposed to be bad. I haven't seen it yet, I'll admit. Apparently the creator had a few bones to pick with the Baltimore newspapers.
3: Omar is so completely awesome that every scene without him feels like it's missing something. However, this makes the few scenes with him amazing, and each one of them is memorable as a highlight of the show.
4: This may just be my problem, but the opening credits are probably the worst I've ever seen. The first season had mediocre ones, and they appear to be getting worse as the show goes along. I may be oversensitive, and used to such awesome credits such as Dexter and True Blood, but each time I hear the opening song, I cringe.
You'll enjoy this if: You're intelligent
You'll hate this if: You're a moron. I can't stress this enough. The Wire was impossible to get into, which is why it failed to grab any ratings, but get yourself a DVD box set now. The trope Better on DVD was made for this.
Other stuff?
If you're not watching Dexter, you should start. I can't say much more about the show. Michael C Hall is brilliant as serial killer/police officer Dexter Morgan. He has an obsession with blood and a hunger to kill, which he satisfies by killing only those who "deserve it". The show generally shies away from the moral implications of what he does, but there's no doubt that Dexter's a monster. He admits it freely. The show has an amazing first season, and loses it in the other seasons, (becoming merely "very very good") although the third season is better than the second, in my opinion. A fourth season is in the works, and from what little I've seen, it's probably going to be close to the first in quality.
You'll like this if: You have a sadistic sense of humor. Or you like seeing blood. Or you appreciate good acting. Or you like looking for messages. Or if you enjoy television.
You wont like this if: You're squeamish. Dexter is a violent person with a sick sense of humor, and the people around him aren't much better.
Anyone who hasn't read A Game of Thrones (By George R. R. Martin) is a fantasy idiot, as far as I'm concerned. This book overshadows everything else I've read in the genre, and I agree with the reviewer who called the author, George R. R. Martin, "The American Tolkein". The genre will never be the same as it was fifteen years ago, when the book first came out. The tolkein copycats are out of fashion, and we've already seen the first of Martin copycats, who do works compared to GRRM's like Dark Age comic book writers did with Watchmen.
You'll like this if: You can read.
You won't like this if: You can't read. Or if you hate it when a major character dies, because let me tell you, they do.
Damages is the lawyer show that will end you. Enough said. Glen Close and Ted Dansen are two of the most compelling villains ever to face off against each other. Zjelko Ivanek is brilliant as Ray Fiske, a conflicted lawyer working for Arthur Frobisher (Dansen), a businessman who committed major fraud, and is being sued by Patty Hewes (Close). And the protagonist is Ellen Parsons (An actress whose name I completely forgot), a lawyer hired by Patty Hewes. Working in a way that's a little similar to Lost (Flash-forwards at the beginning, middle, and end of each episode, that only get clear as each season progresses) without copying the style, this is a major TV event. I guess not enough said...
You'll like this if: You think Prison Break would be amazing if it made sense. Or if you like lawyer shows. Or if you appreciate brilliant acting. Or if you want a great show that's really easy to get into, and is genuinely riveting.
You'll hate this if: You're dead inside, and you don't watch TV because it's "The Devil's Box".
EDIT- My god, the fun is being taken out of TVTropes. First Rape The Dog got re-named and completely changed, now Spikeification is lost to us too? Those holes conveniently placed in the rear end! With hats! What's next, Flanderization? A Wizard Did It?

The Rose Dragon
2009-08-05, 07:03 PM
Spikeification was the old name for a trope at TVTropes. To avoid confusion, it's now named Badass Decay (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadAssDecay).

YOU LIE!

While most people will have heard of this one, I chalk it up to the fact that we're all geeks.

Dead Like Me.

I miss Dead Like Me. It was easily in the top five of my favorite shows. Why did it get canned?

((Someone more competent please explain Dead Like Me.))

Athaniar
2009-08-06, 12:45 PM
Question: can you post items that are part of a larger, more well-known franchise, like individual Star Trek games or Star Wars books?

mangosta71
2009-08-06, 01:32 PM
The Black Company by Glen Cook.
It's a dark, fairly low-magic fantasy setting. The main characters are soldiers in a mercenary company, so the story is told from the perspective of the grunts in the army. Rather than glory-hounding heroes, they're a bunch of guys that just want to get the job done so they can get paid. It's a wonderfully refreshing break from all the fantasy stories that have clear lines of good and evil.

Passage at Arms, again by Glen Cook.
Sci-fi setting. The characters are the crew of a space-warfare equivalent of modern submarines. The book chronicles a single patrol from the viewpoint of a reporter who's been assigned to the ship. A reporter who is resented because the rest of the crew had to cut down on their personal effects to allow for his addition of weight. And again, once you really get into the story it's hard to tell which side has the right in the conflict.

The blurry line of morality is a recurring theme in Glen Cook's stories, which is a major reason I enjoy them. It adds to the authenticity of the work imo.

Mystic Muse
2009-08-06, 02:13 PM
Question: can you post items that are part of a larger, more well-known franchise, like individual Star Trek games or Star Wars books?

yes you can.

Athaniar
2009-08-06, 03:21 PM
OK then:

Star Trek: Conquest [Wii/PS2 Game]
This interesting little console strategy game takes place in the Star Trek universe during the Dominion War, although it doesn't follow any story, it's just to conquer the galaxy. It is a RTS/TBS hybrid, kinda like the Total War games. Play as the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Dominion, or the Breen. Also included as minor factions are the Borg, Ferengi, Orion, and Xindi. It's quite fun.

You'll enjoy this if you like: Star Trek (especially Deep Space 9), not too deep RTS/TBS hybrids.

You won't find: Story, much depth.

Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds [PC Game]
You know Age of Empires II, right? Now, imagine it with stormtroopers, X-Wings, and Jedi instead of men-at-arms, galleys, and monks. Simply put, it's a Star Wars RTS using the Age of Empires II engine. For those who like both Star Wars and Age of Empires II (myself included), this is a good game, and I recommend it.

You'll enjoy this if you like: Age of Empires II, Star Wars.

You won't find: Things you wouldn't expect from any of the above.

chiasaur11
2009-08-06, 03:37 PM
The Marathon Trilogy [PC Game]
We all know and have reasonably firm opinions on Halo, and, by extension, Bungie, the company that makes it. But before Halo, Bungie made a series of FPSs for the Mac. It was called Marathon. Basic, if solid, "Doom"y FPSing, Marathon is distinguished by its plot. Mad AIs, ancient races, philosophy, black humor...

Good for fans of: Old First Person shooters, and fun mad AIs.

You won't find: Tactical depth, brilliant enemy or allied AI, Halos of any sort.
A pricetag.

That's right. Marathon is free these days. Worth a look, at least. (http://source.bungie.org/get/)

The Rose Dragon
2009-08-06, 03:51 PM
The Marathon Trilogy [PC Game]
We all know and have reasonably firm opinions on Halo, and, by extension, Bungie, the company that makes it. But before Halo, Bungie made a series of FPSs for the Mac. It was called Marathon. Basic, if solid, "Doom"y FPSing, Marathon is distinguished by its plot. Mad AIs, ancient races, philosophy, black humor...

Good for fans of: Old First Person shooters, and fun mad AIs.

You won't find: Tactical depth, brilliant enemy or allied AI, Halos of any sort.
A pricetag.

That's right. Marathon is free these days. Worth a look, at least. (http://source.bungie.org/get/)

Non-Blizzard games for Macs? Surely you jest!

Also, why haven't I heard of this before? :smalltongue:

*goes to download*

Joran
2009-08-06, 04:08 PM
YOU LIE!

While most people will have heard of this one, I chalk it up to the fact that we're all geeks.

Dead Like Me.

I miss Dead Like Me. It was easily in the top five of my favorite shows. Why did it get canned?

((Someone more competent please explain Dead Like Me.))

Because the creator left after first season due to "creative differences".

Dead Like Me: TV Series/2 seasons + movie:

"I didn't know what was more disturbing: being dead or the fact that the first man to touch my naked body was a coroner."
-Georgia Lass

Georgia "George" Lass, a disaffected young teenager, is killed by the toilet seat of the recently de-orbited Mir Space Station. Because she was the last soul to fulfill a quota for a grim reaper, she takes his place as a grim reaper. Grim reapers are like normal people, except they pull souls out of bodies right before they die to send them on their way, and they have different bodies than the ones they inhabited when they lived. George must both navigate her new un-life as a grim reaper (reapers unfortunately don't get paid, so they have to get side jobs), while still interacting with the dysfunctional family she left behind.

Pretty funny show with some sentimental moments. The concept is pretty good and the cast, highlighted by "My name is Inigo Montoya", Mandy Patinkin are entertaining. It has a pretty biting sense of humor, which I would say is probably close to Daria.

Wonderfalls: TV series/1 season, 13 episodes

"I don't have a choice. I'm a puppet. The universe sticks its hand up my butt, and if I don't dance people get hurt."
-Jaye Tyler

This is what the creator of Dead Like Me went to go work on after leaving with creative differences. Unfortunately, this got cancelled then he worked on Pushing Daisies which got cancelled again... This guy really has no luck.

Anyway, Jaye Tyler is a disaffected, misanthrophic college graduate, who graduated from Brown University with a philosophy degree. From a dysfunctional family of high achievers, she works a dead-end job at a gift shop in Niagara Falls and really can't give a darn, up until the little stuffed animals and wax lions in the gift shop start talking to her. Although often very cryptic, their talking ends up helping someone in a roundabout, funny way.

Basically described as Joan of Arcadia on acid, the series was cancelled after its first season, but not before it managed to tie up some of the loose ends. It's funnier and more light-hearted than Dead Like Me, and outside of Firefly, this is my favorite show that got cancelled before its time.

Chocolate: Martial Arts Movie

From the director and fight choreographer of the Thai movies: Ong-Bak: Thai Warrior and The Guardian. Instead of Tony Jaa, these two found a young actress and then trained her for two years for this role.

The plot is really not particularly important here, but the girl is the autistic child of two Asian gangsters who is a martial arts savant. She then basically kicks the butt of everybody remotely near her in a bunch of exquisitely choreographed set pieces that are funny and amazing. I'd describe it as the closest we'll get to the movie "River Tam Beats Up Everybody".

Highly entertaining for anyone who likes well-choreographed fight scenes strung together with a minimal plot.

chiasaur11
2009-08-06, 05:02 PM
Non-Blizzard games for Macs? Surely you jest!

Also, why haven't I heard of this before? :smalltongue:

*goes to download*

Well, the mainstream was occupied with Doom 2 at the time, the fans of mad AIs had System Shock, and the Mac users tended to be tuned out.

These things happen.

theMycon
2009-08-06, 06:19 PM
Non-Blizzard games for Macs? Surely you jest!

Also, why haven't I heard of this before? :smalltongue:

*goes to download*

That (Marathon) also introduced me to the concept of "the evil that's on your side", and exactly what you can do with a teleporter & relativistic momentums. Durandal is pretty awesome.

They also produced the fairly good "Myth" series; a trilogy of Real-time Strategy games where you actually have to worry about finite resources & tactics, rather than just production. Why? You have a static number of troops, which you keep if they survive the battle. This means you also (unlike Starcraft) more or less HAVE to use your hero units- they fortunately kick ass. It also has a good storyline (not just good-for-RTS, but actually interesting), but I (unfortunately) haven't found it free anywhere.


The first in the series is known as [B]Myth: The Fallen Lords[/I]

pita
2009-08-06, 06:36 PM
Oh my god I forgot about the game with the best plot ever: Planescape: Torment. This game has a plot to rival the greatest of fantasy. It has side characters with many, many, layers, although all of them invoke the name of the game, as they are all incredibly tormented, most of them by you.
You will like it if: You're an intelligent person who likes plot.
You won't if: You play video games for the hack and slash.

Faulty
2009-08-06, 07:07 PM
JJ, totally backing up your recommendation of The Black Company. The first three books are amazing, gripping and original.

theMycon
2009-08-06, 07:14 PM
Oh yeah- I should probably mention my namesake here, too.

Star Control 2: The Ur-quan masters (http://sc2.sourceforge.net)
This is simply a fantastic game. You explore, expand, and rather than exterminate, you learn. The guys set up to be the big baddies at the start? They end up seeming even more like an overbearing mother. You need to figure out quite a few clever "problems" (like bringing a species back from nigh-extinction by finding a mating pair in some exceedingly rich pervert's harem), you have a few morality problems, and there's a fairly fun battle system. The plot is remarkably "tight"- almost everything is answered in surprisingly few elements, which just recurse back upon themselves until it's a believable series of reactions & politicking. But the real draw is simply the fun of watching everyone bicker it out. The dialogue (and voice acting) is simply amazing, the humor is grand, and you start to genuinely pity and hate some people as you come to understand them.

You will enjoy this game if you like: space-shooters, puzzles, perverted humor, and a backstory to the enemies.

You won't find: out which one is the zot, the fot, or the pik; linearity.

chiasaur11
2009-08-06, 07:32 PM
Oh yeah- I should probably mention my namesake here, too.

Star Control 2: The Ur-quan masters (http://sc2.sourceforge.net)
This is simply a fantastic game. You explore, expand, and rather than exterminate, you learn. The guys set up to be the big baddies at the start? They end up seeming even more like an overbearing mother. You need to figure out quite a few clever "problems" (like bringing a species back from nigh-extinction by finding a mating pair in some exceedingly rich pervert's harem), you have a few morality problems, and there's a fairly fun battle system. The plot is remarkably "tight"- almost everything is answered in surprisingly few elements, which just recurse back upon themselves until it's a believable series of reactions & politicking. But the real draw is simply the fun of watching everyone bicker it out. The dialogue (and voice acting) is simply amazing, the humor is grand, and you start to genuinely pity and hate some people as you come to understand them.

You will enjoy this game if you like: space-shooters, puzzles, perverted humor, and a backstory to the enemies.

You won't find: out which one is the zot, the fot, or the pik; linearity.

One more problem with it.

A built in time limit. I like the game, but...

I really hate not being allowed my own pace.

magellan
2009-08-07, 12:32 PM
Then I'm afraid you can't blame the world for your ignorance of one of the greatest TV shows ever.

Well, at least the first five seasons. Minus the fourth.

Actually i think if you are 16 you can blame the world for not knowing Buffy.
He was 2 when it first appeared, and 9 when it went of the air.

Or maybe blame his parents. I think i recall 16 year olds like to blame their parents anyway :)

Also season 4 was way better than 5, except for those 2 episodes.

Athaniar
2009-08-07, 03:54 PM
Age of Wonders II (Shadow Magic) [PC Game]
I think this is unknown enough. Anyway, Age of Wonders II (like its predecessor) is a turn-based strategy game set in a fantasy universe. You control one of 12 races (15 in the standalone expansion, Shadow Magic) and send your units to explore and wage war on the hexagonally-divided map. The player has an avatar of sorts, a wizard, who like the king in chess must survive, but unlike said king, is a powerful unit in its own right, allowing you to cast devastating and/or helpful spells. One of the best features of this game is the extremely potent editor, allowing you to not only modify the map, but also the units. And with modify, I mean create your own. This is definitely one of my favorite games.

You'll enjoy this if you like: Turn-based strategy, fantasy, editing.

You won't find: Ehhm... gnomes?

Cyrano
2009-08-07, 04:24 PM
One more problem with it.

A built in time limit. I like the game, but...

I really hate not being allowed my own pace.

You can have plot or convenience, but not both.

That said, the time limit is rather huge.

That said, so is the game.

chiasaur11
2009-08-07, 05:19 PM
Minerva: Metastasis
Possibly not unknown, but I figure even a well known mod for Half Life 2 might barely qualify.

Basically, it starts as a Half-Life 2 version of The Silent Cartographer, with a Durandallian voice in your head (Well, less a voice than text with dial up noises) giving orders, advice, and sardonic commentary. It continues deeper into a combine complex, with shocking twists and turns, until the explosive finale. Valve's excellent Episode 2 AI is in full force here, with the Hard AI living up to the difficulty label. A mod so good, Valve hired the guy who made it.

Good if you like: Half-Life 2, Halo, Marathon

Does not have: A gravity gun.

Get it here (http://www.hylobatidae.org/minerva/).

theMycon
2009-08-07, 05:44 PM
You can have plot or convenience, but not both.

That said, the time limit is rather huge.

That said, so is the game.

It was still a year-and-a-half* more than I needed, on my first run through, and I like to explore a LOT on my first run.


*I "bought" a year through a complicated fetch-quest, mind you.

LCR
2009-08-08, 03:18 AM
Imperium by Robert Harris

Imperium is a historical novel, set in late republican Rome. It details the rise of Cicero to Consulship, narrated by his slave (more like his secretary).
It's one of my favourite books, not only because I like Rome in general, but because it is so well written. I had to translate parts of Cicero's speeches in school and while I thought, that he must have been a pretty good orator to pull all this of, I wasn't too enthusiastic about it. That changed with Imperium. Harris manages to fill all those characters you know from history class (Pompeius, Crassus, Caesar, Atticus, Gaius Verres ....) with life and makes them into human beings.
It doesn't use it's historical background as a gimmick at every possible moment ("Look, a gladiator!" "Legions are soooo awesome"), but Harris makes it feel so natural, you'll soon have forgotten that this is ancient Rome, not the present time. He instead focuses on politics, courtroom drama, intrigues (lots of them) and character development.

You'll enjoy this if you like: Robert Harris in general, historical fiction, courtroom drama, politics

You won't find: Epic battles

Athaniar
2009-08-08, 12:55 PM
Special Unit 2 [TV Series]
Special Unit 2 is a division of the Chicago Police that deals with "special" cases. To be more specific, those realting to monsters, or "links". The show focuses on veteran detective Nick O'Malley and his new partner Kate Benson, with a supporting cast consisting of interesting characters such as Carl the kleptomaniac gnome. Each episode (usually) deals with a specific monster, like a mummy, werewolves, or a genie. But no vampires. They don't exist. The show is pretty good (but far too short), and worth watching.

Celebrity guest stars include Pauley Perrette (NCIS's Abby) as the Unit's public relations person and the always villainous John de Lancie as, well, a villain.

You'll enjoy this if you like: Urban fantasy, light crime series, kleptomaniac gnomes.

You won't find: High fantasy, realistic crime investigation, vampires.