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lyko555
2009-08-04, 06:21 AM
Just a quick question. How much xp should a character fighting in a 1-1 battle in a gladatorial pit gain. The dm just kinda ignored the fact that i won the combat that shoulda squished me and went about his business. lvl 2 toon vrs cr6 ettin

Gorbash
2009-08-04, 06:47 AM
2700 XP, as per DMG.

SirKazum
2009-08-04, 06:48 AM
No-holds-barred fight to the death, where the enemy is able to use its full combat capabilities? Full XP (as per EL and character level), undivided. If there are some restrictions, though, or other means to level the playing field (because really, a lvl2 character vs. a CR 6 enemy sounds a bit much) then it should be a fraction of the XP. What were the exact circumstances of the fight?

Riffington
2009-08-04, 02:34 PM
Just a quick question. How much xp should a character fighting in a 1-1 battle in a gladatorial pit gain. The dm just kinda ignored the fact that i won the combat that shoulda squished me and went about his business. lvl 2 toon vrs cr6 ettin

However many the DM says it should be. The DMG has guidelines but he's free to ignore them, as it sounds like he might be.

woodenbandman
2009-08-04, 04:45 PM
However many the DM says it should be. The DMG has guidelines but he's free to ignore them, as it sounds like he might be.

He shouldn't though. Give practical advice, rather than "oh whatever your DM says."

Your DM should give you that XP, which would be enough to level you up once.

lyko555
2009-08-04, 08:37 PM
No-holds-barred fight to the death, where the enemy is able to use its full combat capabilities? Full XP (as per EL and character level), undivided. If there are some restrictions, though, or other means to level the playing field (because really, a lvl2 character vs. a CR 6 enemy sounds a bit much) then it should be a fraction of the XP. What were the exact circumstances of the fight?

It was a lvl 2sword sage no holds barred in a 60' circle arena. I basicly got lucky that the ettins first turn didnt 1shot me.I used the toss manuever and got him prone, and aoo'd him to death as he tried to get up and or casted spells ( i tink it was cause light wounds). took about 5-6 turns

Milskidasith
2009-08-04, 08:39 PM
Sounds like the DM rolled badly and/or played him badly. Why would it try to cast cause light wounds when it could hit you with a morningstar for more damage?

sofawall
2009-08-04, 09:10 PM
An Ettin should have taken you down in 3 hits at most, or two-three turns.

And holy hell, if was using Cause (Inflict?) Light Wounds, it's even better than a normal Ettin, it has at least one class level. How the hell did he lose, did he roll 4 natural 1s or something?

Also, it's Str bonus does more damage than the average damage from the spell, never mind the weapon itself. Was he going for a touch attack? Why? It has a +12 to hit, it should have at LEAST a 50/50 chance of hitting you.

Eldariel
2009-08-04, 09:27 PM
An Ettin should have taken you down in 3 hits at most, or two-three turns.

And holy hell, if was using Cause (Inflict?) Light Wounds, it's even better than a normal Ettin, it has at least one class level. How the hell did he lose, did he roll 4 natural 1s or something?

Also, it's Str bonus does more damage than the average damage from the spell, never mind the weapon itself. Was he going for a touch attack? Why? It has a +12 to hit, it should have at LEAST a 50/50 chance of hitting you.

Judging by the report, it tried casting spells which is why it died. Had it just fought (though once Prone, the -4/-4 is gonna seriously even up the playfield regardless of CR), it would've had a fine chance. But it's not too smart so it's all understandable. A level 2 Swordsage is at the sweet point AC-wise so it's fully possible that once prone, it needed ~17+ to hit with primaries and 20 to hit with secondaries.

It's not really that unlikely - being tripped is a huge debuff and raising up means you give up full attack and just likely get tripped again. The average damage is of course 13 which means ~2-3 hits is going to be lethal regardless of Con here, but if it just was rolling ~10s and so, it's not impossible.

sofawall
2009-08-04, 10:03 PM
It wasn't trip, it was a maneuver, which I think needs a grapple check (Maybe? afb), which realistically the Ettin should win.

Tripping will be problematic. How the heck does a swordsage (usually dex/wis focused) trip an Ettin(large and Str focused)?

Assuming 20 dex and 18 wis, I see an AC of 5 dex+4 wis+3 armour+1 size=23. At level 2, it's hard to get higher. When tripped, the Ettin would need a 15, and that's assuming two 18s with a racial bonus. I can see a swordsage killing it 3-4 rounds, assuming proper maneuver selection and dex to damage, but again, the Ettin should have just killed it.

The fact that an advanced Ettin lost to a level 2 character makes me laugh quite heartily. Ha Ha Ha!

EDIT: 18 con and max rolls for both HD give 24 hp. Maximum 3 hits and he's down. 50/50 chance to hit before tripped. It should have taken 3 turns to stomp the Swordsage. The swordsage should have gotten 3 atacks. With Shadow Blade technique and a 20 dex, that's 11 damage (max) per hit before maneuvers, without crits. 33 damage. You need 32 more to knock it to 0, or 33 more to fully drop it. If the DM played it as "HULK SMASH!!!" and just ran at you swinging, not even using any semblance of tactics, he still should have won.

EDIT2: 5 dex+1 BAB+1 small=+7 to hit, 50/50, like the ettin. Better when tripped.

Eldariel
2009-08-05, 06:20 AM
It wasn't trip, it was a maneuver, which I think needs a grapple check (Maybe? afb), which realistically the Ettin should win.

Tripping will be problematic. How the heck does a swordsage (usually dex/wis focused) trip an Ettin(large and Str focused)?

Throws are treated as Trip-attempts based off Dex or Str hence what I said; effectively it got "tripped". Since he's level 2, all he has is Mighty Throw which is basically Trip with Str or Dex.

But yeah, it seems to me like the Ettin just fought really weird (trying to raise up while threatened, cast spell [still WTFs me], etc.) and died as a consequence.


Few potential modifiers on the SS's side: Maybe equipment slightly above WBL? Or even just Mw. weapon(s) help a lot.

Random832
2009-08-05, 06:23 AM
My reading of the situation is that the DM didn't realize it was possible to attack while prone. That would explain trying to get up, and possibly the spellcasting.

Fizban
2009-08-05, 08:22 AM
Complete Warrior says a non-lethal duel is worth half the xp of a fight to the death (it's specifically used in a tournament, so there's still something at stake). In a fight to the death you definitely get full xp, and if it's one on one you're getting four times what you normally would since you're not splitting with the party. Note that a creature of CR equal to your level is actually "EL 4, overpowering" when put up against a single character, and is supposed to be about a 50/50 chance of winning. Which makes sense since you're the same power level.

As for the fight at hand, a whole party of level 2s should have only had a 50/50 chance against that Ettin, let alone a single level 2. That's actually reaching the point where the DMG says "they can't possibly have done that without cheating, they get no xp". Not to be harsh, but I'd say your DM had no idea what he was doing there. Especially with it having extra class levels. Regardless, you should get xp, and his denying it after sending you against certain death is just rude.

Riffington
2009-08-05, 08:24 AM
He shouldn't though. Give practical advice, rather than "oh whatever your DM says."

Your DM should give you that XP, which would be enough to level you up once.

I was giving practical advice: it sounds like he wants an internet source to go and tell his DM "hey they all agree you have to give me XP." Well, he can read a DMG entry just as well as we can, and we don't know the backstory. Maybe he's a member of a party of 5 characters, and happened to be the one facing an ettin in an arena, and the DM doesn't want him 1-2 levels above everyone else. Maybe the ettin was an illusion/posed no real threat, and he doesn't know it. Maybe this DM doesn't give XP according to the DMG.

The fact is, the DMG has a very clear XP award that would derail many games by creating a levelup where the DM might not want one.

Now if the DM comes to us with that question, we can be helpful. I don't think it's very helpful to side with a player against his DM when we don't know any of the details.

Killer Angel
2009-08-05, 08:30 AM
My reading of the situation is that the DM didn't realize it was possible to attack while prone. That would explain trying to get up, and possibly the spellcasting.

Even in this case, the ettin gets up (taking an AoO), than squish the puny lev. 2 swordsage.

Random832
2009-08-05, 08:48 AM
Theory B: As above; also DM thinks that a regular attack in an AoO when getting up causes getting up to fail. (It's not actually clear to me that it doesn't; where does it say one way or the other? I know there are some things that an AoO causes to fail)