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Lysander
2009-08-04, 09:12 AM
Here's an idea I want to use in a game. Feel free to steal for your own campaign if you like.

Your players are all loyal mooks in the service of a powerful evil wizard in the process of building an empire. They all freely joined him in exchange for fortune and power, and he sends them on his most urgent and high priority errands against his many enemies. The first few adventures they have consist of brutally repressing rebels and killing armies from other kingdoms. The players of course have lots of fun being vicious evil bastards.

One mission is a quest to kill a good cleric who is a major leader of the resistance. The PCs hack through his soldiers and finally engage him head on. He's a powerful cleric but they're powerful too, so the fight slowly turns in their favor. Suddenly he pulls out his secret weapon - a ring of wishes with one charge left. His final action before the players kill him is blasting one person at random with a beam of golden light from the ring, and it doesn't even seem to do anything. Odd, why didn't he use it for an attack or to teleport to safety?

The DM takes that one player aside and secretly explains what he/she now know:

This isn't who they are. All of the players were powerful resistance leaders who were defeated and Mindraped into loyal minions by the evil wizard, then their appearance was altered so their old allies wouldn't recognize them. The PCs aren't evil at heart, they used to be agents of pure good. The Wish restored his old personality and memories, but now he's in major trouble. The other players are still evil and brainwashed. They are so loyal to the evil wizard that they would keep serving him even if told they were mindraped. If they realize the player has been turned they'd tie him up and cart him back to the wizard to be Mindraped again.

So the restored player becomes a mole in the party, trying to sabotage their ongoing evil mission, and find a way to free the others from the wizard's control without them catching on. At first he'd only be able to restore their alignments one at a time over several adventures, since it takes a Wish or Miracle to restore rewritten memories, and even then he'd have to tread carefully - despite being good they'd still be loyal to the wizard, and making them reject him would take careful manipulation of their consciences. Over the campaign the party would progressively break free of the wizard's control, then find a way to get all their memories back so they can rejoin and lead the resistance, then kill the evil mage who robbed them of free will.

Whatcha think?

KillianHawkeye
2009-08-04, 09:18 AM
Sounds like an awesome campaign, but it relies heavily on player cooperation in order to succeed. Unfortunately, my players aren't cooperative enough for me to be able to pull something like this off, but maybe yours are.

Douglas
2009-08-04, 09:21 AM
It's an interesting premise that sounds like a lot of fun, but you need a mature group that's willing to go along with the DM dictating surprise character backstory and personality changes. See if you can come up with a sufficiently specific but vague question to ask your players before you even start the campaign to see how they'll feel about it. For some players, springing this kind of surprise on them may be so bad in their view it will convince them to leave the group - a Player Characters' backstory, personality, and motivations are usually the exclusive purview of the players, subject to the DM only by constraints announced before character creation, and changing that should be done with care to avoid massive protests.

Lysander
2009-08-04, 09:37 AM
Before it starts I'd give them a warning to expect a major surprise, and hint at major changes to their characters so they don't get blindsided.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-08-04, 09:43 AM
I would love to do this, but... eh.

I'm not sure the people I play with would like this, but I personally would love this, especially if I were the one who had their memories revived.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-08-04, 09:55 AM
Something like that can work, but as mentioned it depends a lot on the player. I pulled something like this in my last campaign, but the other way around ("Hey, Ben? You know how your character is a half-devil? Yeah...about the whole 'half-' thing....") and it worked out really well, but after the campaign there were several people who said it was an awesome twist, but they wouldn't have wanted it to happen to their characters. Just make sure there's someone okay with it beforehand--you could ask if they'd be willing to go against the party and imply that the wizard has an evil rival, checking if it's okay without revealing the actual surprise.

valadil
2009-08-04, 10:32 AM
I think it's a pretty cool idea, but when it all gets revealed the non mole characters may get jealous.

My solution? Everybody gets to be the mole in the evil group! Somehow they all individually get freed from the mind control. Each one thinks he's the only mole in the group. You'll probably have to free them all individually instead of at a public event like what you laid out. This is something I've wanted to see happen in a game for quite some time.

Lysander
2009-08-04, 11:21 AM
One possibility is that they're all freed, but are in command of a giant evil army that will turn on them if they catch on. So they have to continue pretending to be evil, and figure out how to exploit their position.

Another possibility is that none of them have their memories restored, just their alignments. So the players are driven by sudden guilt to delve into their pasts to explain various inconsistencies. Here they might never get their memories back, instead they'd find out who they were like amnesiacs playing detective.

A third possibility (muahahaha) is that the players actually are evil, and the "restoration" of their old memories and alignment is actually the first time they were Mindraped as part a resistance plot against the wizard. When the players find out they'd have to decide whether to remain good, or defect back to the wizard who will eagerly heal his beloved servants.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-08-04, 11:22 AM
I think it's a pretty cool idea, but when it all gets revealed the non mole characters may get jealous.

My solution? Everybody gets to be the mole in the evil group! Somehow they all individually get freed from the mind control. Each one thinks he's the only mole in the group. You'll probably have to free them all individually instead of at a public event like what you laid out. This is something I've wanted to see happen in a game for quite some time.

You could have the Beam of RedemptionTM hit all of them and knock them out for a few minutes. When they wake up, pass a note to each one explaining the above and saying "The blast hit you head-on, so you're the only one who got redeemed; the others have random notes from the wizard so yours doesn't stand out, so don't mention anything." :smallbiggrin:

woodenbandman
2009-08-04, 11:25 AM
I love the idea from this standpoint now that I know about it, but if I didn't know about it, I'd probably be pissed. I signed on for an evil campaign! I want one, dammit!

valadil
2009-08-04, 12:07 PM
You could have the Beam of RedemptionTM hit all of them and knock them out for a few minutes. When they wake up, pass a note to each one explaining the above and saying "The blast hit you head-on, so you're the only one who got redeemed; the others have random notes from the wizard so yours doesn't stand out, so don't mention anything." :smallbiggrin:

That could work depending on the players. Mine would be suspicious, but they have every right to be, as I've done stunts like this before. My best was an imaginary player character (http://gm.sagotsky.com/?p=75).

Random832
2009-08-04, 12:43 PM
imaginary player character (http://gm.sagotsky.com/?p=75).

Your link to the creativity theft article from that article is broken.

valadil
2009-08-04, 01:10 PM
Your link to the creativity theft article from that article is broken.

D'oh! Fixed now. TY for noticing :-)

Johel
2009-08-04, 02:00 PM
His final action before the players kill him is blasting one person at random with a beam of golden light from the ring, and it doesn't even seem to do anything. Odd, why didn't he use it for an attack or to teleport to safety?

"-Indeed, why ? Well, obviously, it must be a trap !!"
"-Yeah !! So, let's drag Eric to the boss, just to be sure."
"-Yep... Who know what those fanatic bastards might have done."

"-Ow...guys... Really, that's not necessary. I'm fine, ya know."
"-Gag him. Just to be sure."

****

And so, the PC were all mindraped...again, because the boss wanted them to forget about this little "incident". Just to be sure.

Umael
2009-08-04, 02:27 PM
Johel's got a very valid point.

It would be too easy for the other PCs to suspect something, let alone the players.

At the dramatic moment, the cleric uses the ring, there is a flash of light... and they all come back to consciousness, groggily, noticing that where the cleric once stood is a black scorch mark.

Then you, as DM, hand out a bunch of 3" x 5" cards, one to each player, discussing what the character "remembers" of the experience.

For added measure, don't have this be the first time the group has blacked out, or maybe just individuals have blacked out. Hand out the 3" x 5" cards are various times throughout the game so that the players get compliance about the "black-out" cards. Do this before and after the ...incident.

Thatguyoverther
2009-08-04, 02:59 PM
I had something similar happen to my character in a Champions game, towards the end of the campaign. Some of the characters had been captured by the BBEG (Dr. Destroyer for those familiar with Hero System). The BBEG comes to my characters cell and gives him a proposition that he can't refuse. If I'll start working for him he'll arrange an escape for me and the others and I'll get all sorts of power and prestige. If I don't take the offer I and my captured comrades die a gruesome death. It sounded like fun so I took the offer, if I changed my mind I could always double double cross right?

A short time later, the BBEG is storming our secret underground base. We had a prearranged signal for when I should openly defect and start helping him and his minions. Unfortunately for him, one of the heavy hitters on our side warped a steel door around him, while the others used various entangles against him, and he never had a chance to give the signal. The battle was going so bad for our side that we self destructed the base to kill him, and we took out our entire party in the process. It was a pretty cool campaign all told.

Skorj
2009-08-04, 03:28 PM
So, you're going to encourage intra-party fighting in an evil campaign.? Well, I guess it is easier when you don't need any monsters for the combats. :smalltongue:

Also, the PCs will kill the cleric before he gets his wish off, if you have typical DM's luck, so you're really just giving the party 1 free wish.

Pyredup
2009-08-04, 05:35 PM
I had two experiences similar to this (the first inspired the second).

First I was a player in an evil campaign. We played from level 1 to 15 gaining rank in a thieves guild when all of sudden an avatar of some god comes down and reveals that we were actually good aligned people who volunteered to be brainwashed so we could infiltrate this guild. Some of the players liked it, most were annoyed that the game took such an arbitrary turn without any input from the PCs.

In the second experience I was the DM. I instructed my party to create their characters mechanically but told them I would be creating their backstories personally. I allowed input on some general things but 95% of it was on me. At our first session all of the players regained consciousness in what they later determined was a temple. All around them lay slain priests and priestesses. They can't remember anything but quickly determine that they were responsible for the massacre. Throughout the session I gradually introduce memories for each character. By the end of the session they had determined that they were previously evil and had been hired to kill some arch-bishop. They succeeded, but with his dying breath he invoked the true name of his god summoning an avatar whose mere presence turned all of the PCs to good.

They all enjoyed it. None of them had an attachment to their evil characters because none of them had played it at all. It was also pretty neat when the characters started to be recognized by terrified villagers etc who had previously been the subject of their evil whims.

Let us know how your game goes, OP, if you go through with your surprise.

Shademan
2009-08-04, 05:38 PM
this....is AWESOME!
I would LOVE to have played in that campaign!
go make a module!

The_JJ
2009-08-04, 06:42 PM
I dunno, it might work, but it might not.

You are, if you look at it one way, grabbing the players and saying hey, your concept is wrong, start roleplaying your personality different! It's not unlike the DM saying "No, your charactor is a Palidin/LG/CE/whatever, he'd so do this!" The most blatent of railroading, as it were, where it's not just the world that shifts itself to magically fit the plot, but even the charactors.

You're intruding on the one area where the player really has control over his charactor. It's unorthodox, it's potencially fun, but I'd definately be careful of how you pull it off. The group I'm in now would love it. Some groups I've been in in the past? Not so much.

Myrmex
2009-08-05, 01:46 AM
So kind of like Total Recall, minus a three-breasted Martian prostitute?

Shademan
2009-08-05, 01:49 AM
JJ have a point there. before campaign start you should warn the players that unexpected things may happen to their characters. they may die...or worse. whatever happens... don't get to attached to them(well, until after they're turned good).

obliged_salmon
2009-08-05, 10:33 AM
Here's what you do. You tell each player to make two characters, one good and one evil. The two characters should have the same age and gender. They may have the same stats, but that might completely give it away. Tell them that they'll start with the evil party, and at some point switch to the good party in the campaign. Then when the ray of light goes off, just discreetly tell one player to switch characters, essentially, and so on.

Altima
2009-08-05, 12:14 PM
Alternatively, the ring could restore all their memories, but not their alignment (leave it up to the players).

This way, you leave it open for everyone--the people who want to redeem (and your alignment is supposed to be tied to your True Name, so you can't just instantaneously flip back and forth) can do it. The people who don't can still want to stick with the group, if only because, hey, suddenly there's an uber powerful group that has a grudge against the big bad who has graciously pre-built an empire for you. So all there has to be doing it to gut said wizard, drop the goodies, and rule the world.

Also, since you're a DM, you can grade it up from a ring of wishes to a limited wish contigency upon the cleric's death.

Though, of course, it raises the problem of why he didn't do it the moment he saw them...

The_JJ
2009-08-05, 12:50 PM
Alternatively, the ring could restore all their memories, but not their alignment (leave it up to the players).

This way, you leave it open for everyone--the people who want to redeem (and your alignment is supposed to be tied to your True Name, so you can't just instantaneously flip back and forth) can do it. The people who don't can still want to stick with the group, if only because, hey, suddenly there's an uber powerful group that has a grudge against the big bad who has graciously pre-built an empire for you. So all there has to be doing it to gut said wizard, drop the goodies, and rule the world.

Also, since you're a DM, you can grade it up from a ring of wishes to a limited wish contigency upon the cleric's death.

Though, of course, it raises the problem of why he didn't do it the moment he saw them...

This. Totally this. Salmon's idea is good too. Maybe, maybe tell them to make the 'good guys' at the same level that you plan on having the players at when they find the cleric. Y'know, if that works.

If so, let them pick out an inventory for their 'good charactors.' They don't get it of course, but later on they should find the equipment laying around the Big Bad's castle. :smallsmile:

Still, letting them get their memories but choose their own alignment is key!

Guancyto
2009-08-05, 01:32 PM
This. Totally this. Salmon's idea is good too. Maybe, maybe tell them to make the 'good guys' at the same level that you plan on having the players at when they find the cleric. Y'know, if that works.

I remember a guy telling his players to go nuts on optimizing 15th-level characters with as many books as possible, because they'd be up against a lot of dangerous enemies.

They didn't disappoint, and then he took their character sheets and said, "thanks, these guys will make great rivals for each of your characters. Now make me one at level, oh, five. Same basic party role. Core and Completes."

You could pull something like that, only they were unwittingly creating their pre-mindwipe characters. Not only would it be a substantial power boost (even if it's at the same level), but their hard work wouldn't all go to waste.

But yes, let them choose their alignments even if you do throw them a swerve about their pasts.