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Forevernade
2009-08-04, 09:27 AM
Based on the idea of http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119652 , what can you come up with?

What is the highest tankiest HP you can muster?

Siosilvar
2009-08-04, 09:30 AM
What level? Otherwise, I'm going to be a level X+1 dwarven barbarian.

Edit: Who took Improved Toughness at level 1, started with a 20 Con, and took Toughness for every other available feat (and the Slow trait + 2 flaws).

Edit2: That's an average of oh, 14.5 HP per level, if we don't use any more Constitution boosts.

Add 1 HP per level for every 8 levels.


EDIT3:
Level 1: 28 HP
Level 2: 41.5 HP
Level 3: 58 HP
Level 4: 71.5 HP (con 21)
Level 5: 85 HP
Level 6: 101.5 HP
Level 7: 115 HP
Level 8: 136.5 HP (con 22)
Level 9: 157 HP
Level 10: 171.5 HP

and so on. Not including magic item boosts to Con or temporary boosts to Con.

Telonius
2009-08-04, 09:31 AM
Including Epic? Arbitrarily high. You keep gaining hitpoints as you keep gaining levels.

Narazil
2009-08-04, 09:37 AM
At what level? And how should we calculate HP, average each level, max, rolled, ect?

FMArthur
2009-08-04, 09:58 AM
Take Improved Toughness and then Toughness over and over.

Start as a Mongrelfolk (RoD; +4 Constitution), acquire the Dragonborn of Bahamut template (+2 constitution), and dedicate all of your WBL to boosting con. What else is there to do?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-08-04, 10:00 AM
Be a Barbarian, take levels in Drunken Master, have a bard cast Rage on you...

dspeyer
2009-08-04, 10:19 AM
Anthropomorphic wolverine (savage species) gets +8 con for 2 la and 2 d8 rhd. The rhd aren't too bad from an hp perspective (only 2 points expected below max). The la are, but by ECL 20 it's worth it.

There are probably templates worth adding.

quick_comment
2009-08-04, 10:30 AM
Azure Toughness is better than improved toughness if you have enough essentia.

The paragon template gives you max+12 hp per level.

Past those two, any class with d12 HD and maxing out con as much as you can.

Eldariel
2009-08-04, 10:50 AM
Were-Dire Vulture has +14 Con for +2 LA (if afflicted) and some HD. Inflict that on a Dragonborn Mongrelfolk and you'll have a total of +20 Con with a perfectly doable LA and HD. Then just a level of Barbarian, some Monk to qualify for Drunken Master and Drunken Master 10. This is +20 Con. Barbarian with Reckless Rage gets +6 more. With LA buyoff, all these levels are fittable before 20. Now, if I only remembered all spells that boost Con with other types...

Maaiii, we get +5 from levels (given buyoff; we could even add third LA in Lolth-Touched for +6 more), +5 inherent and +6 enhancement from item. This gets us a total of +15 more. Starting with 18, all this results in 80, 86 with Lolth-Touched. Our HDs unfortunately suck with d8 ~18 times and two that we can reasonably make into d12s. Still, at least that's easy to count:
8+4.5*17+6.5*2 = 97,5 (assuming average HP per level). Then we add Con for:

33*20 = 660 more. Improved Toughness is 20 more and I suppose you could add some stupid feats (or just be a Dragonwrought Kobold and stack Epic Toughnesses, but eh) for more, but going just with this:

777,5 HP on 20. The numbers are a good omen. Of course a spell stack would beat this and hell, even standard Undead HP Stack with d12s and ~+16 per levels comes close. And this doesn't account for temporary HP, of course.

Lamech
2009-08-04, 10:51 AM
Undead positive + energy plane. Its only temp HP but still...

woodenbandman
2009-08-04, 11:11 AM
Ugh. My players are obsessive over getting the most HPs possible.

Level 1 for simplicity:

Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Barbarian

Toughness x3 (2 flaws)
Slow trait, some other trait.

26 HP. 28 in a rage.

EDIT: Some lich with ridiculous charisma.

Eldariel
2009-08-04, 11:16 AM
Bear-Totem Barbarian gets free Toughness out of the class - you could add it there.

Mmm, Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold gets 3 Epic Toughnesses instead for ~+90 HP. Add Chaos Feat Shuffle for few more; easy enough to get ~200. In fact, such a Kobold could be a fun level 1 challenge; insane bags of HP but practically no offensive capability to speak of.

See how long the players hammer it. Then of course it fails a Will-save and gets CDGd in its sleep. Bleh.

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 11:19 AM
(click the pictures; this is, in fact, a serious answer)


http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG223a.jpg (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shamblingMound.htm)

+

(http://www.ceder.net/pc/character/pikachu.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pikachu)x Lots)

=

http://encefalus.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/highlander.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGMGwWWUkII)

valadil
2009-08-04, 11:20 AM
I think the War Hulk PrC gets three toughness feats. Anyway to fit that in there?

RagnaroksChosen
2009-08-04, 11:27 AM
Im surprised no one mentioned TOB yet. I don't know what the Prereq's are but isn't there some dwarven thing that gives you a ton of Bonus HP when you power attack or what not? I think that is the one that could get you the most HP... I'm Away from my Books atm.

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 11:28 AM
Im surprised no one mentioned TOB yet. I don't know what the Prereq's are but isn't there some dwarven thing that gives you a ton of Bonus HP when you power attack or what not? I think that is the one that could get you the most HP... I'm Away from my Books atm.

That's limited to your BAB. It's great if you're taking a small amount of damage every round.

Nothing here is likely to top a Shambling Mound getting attacked by lightning a lot, short of going straight to Pun-Pun.

Eldariel
2009-08-04, 11:32 AM
That's limited to your BAB. It's great if you're taking a small amount of damage every round.

More importantly, it's temporary HP and so doesn't really count.


Nothing here is likely to top a Shambling Mound getting attacked by lightning a lot, short of going straight to Pun-Pun.

Well, seeing that they're both effectively infinite loops, I don't see either really being an acceptable answer here as we're looking for a number, not infinity. :smalltongue:

RagnaroksChosen
2009-08-04, 11:33 AM
Well He didn't say it couldn't be temporary... Though i figured it was in the Theme of Tankiest.

But Like i said i'm away from the books atm, so i can't realy see the mechanics of it, i just remember being like wow thats alot of HPs they can generate.

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 11:35 AM
Mine's not exactly an infinite loop if we restrict it to Pikachus.

A Pikachu's effective range of attack can't be more than about 90 feet at my best guess, so we just have to figure out how many Pikachus can be fit in a 90 foot radius circle making attacks for 16 hours straight before they get utterly exhausted and probably die. Pikachu is a tiny creature, so you can effectively fit four to a square. They can make one attack a round, each granting him 1d4 constitution, and he loses one point at the end of every hour.

Give it a 20th level build of something.

This number increases if the shambling mound and pikachus are all flying, making it a sphere which fits eight pikachus to a cube.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-08-04, 11:44 AM
Mine's not exactly an infinite loop if we restrict it to Pikachus.

A Pikachu's effective range of attack can't be more than about 90 feet at my best guess, so we just have to figure out how many Pikachus can be fit in a 90 foot radius circle making attacks for 16 hours straight before they get utterly exhausted and probably die. Pikachu is a tiny creature, so you can effectively fit four to a square. They can make one attack a round, each granting him 1d4 constitution, and he loses one point at the end of every hour.

Give it a 20th level build of something.

This number increases if the shambling mound and pikachus are all flying, making it a sphere which fits eight pikachus to a cube.
Might work better with a group full of shocker lizards?

Every 6 does 12d8 dmg.

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 11:45 AM
Might work better with a group full of shocker lizards?

Every 6 does 12d8 dmg.

The amount of damage done matters not, only the amount of attacks.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-08-04, 11:57 AM
well then i wonder if the shocker lizards nonleathal counts as an electrical attack or not.. i meen it seems resonable.

Edit better yet a bunch of wizards casting Thundercloud or what ever that first level spell is that does 1 electrical dmg for a few rounds.

Radar
2009-08-04, 12:17 PM
The Shambling Mound can obviously strap on himself an auto-repeating, touch triggered trap of some low-level lightning spell. He gets 1d4 CON per round and looses 1 point per hour. He gets NI CON. The only problem is to be a Shambling Mound - is there any plant PC race, so that one could Polymorph or Wild Shape into one before epic?

Ganurath
2009-08-04, 12:27 PM
1. Ploymorph Any Object into a shambling mound.
2. Cast Persistent Burning Blood on yourself with Energy Substitution (Electricity.) Gotta love Arcane Thesis.
3. Remember to dismiss / cast Dispel Magic on the PBB before you change back.

Eldariel
2009-08-04, 12:32 PM
The Shambling Mound can obviously strap on himself an auto-repeating, touch triggered trap of some low-level lightning spell. He gets 1d4 CON per round and looses 1 point per hour. He gets NI CON. The only problem is to be a Shambling Mound - is there any plant PC race, so that one could Polymorph or Wild Shape into one before epic?

Wildshaping is easy (Druid gets Plant Wildshape naturally; might need Enhanced Wildshape-spell, but that's it) and Polymorph Any Object always exists to serve; it's permanent to boot (which is nice for this buffing cycle).

Johel
2009-08-04, 12:37 PM
The Shambling Mound can obviously strap on himself an auto-repeating, touch triggered trap of some low-level lightning spell. He gets 1d4 CON per round and looses 1 point per hour. He gets NI CON. The only problem is to be a Shambling Mound - is there any plant PC race, so that one could Polymorph or Wild Shape into one before epic?

Polymorph allows you to become a plant but it's useless because :
"The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retains its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. It also gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form or any supernatural or spell-like abilities. "

Immunity to electricity is a special quality.

Polymorph Any Object *could* give you that (I'm not a specialist) but you would end with a Intelligence of 7. Also, the spell won't last long if you aren't already a plant.

A druid could do this :
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shambler.htm
then, with wands of shocking grasp, cast on hundred of toads or bats that would then swarm the conjured shambling mound and make a touch attack.
EDIT : nevermind, people are damned fast ninjas !!

mikethepoor
2009-08-04, 05:18 PM
Assuming that this challenge is ECL 8, as the linked thread in OP's post was, I submit a mongrelfolk barbarian 8. With a starting CON of 18, +2 hit die increases, a +4 racial bonus, and a +4 amulet, that becomes a 28. Take Improved Toughness and Dwarf's Toughness (Masters of the Wild, 3.0 book), for a total of +14 HP. Also take Reckless Rage (Races of Stone) for an extra +2 CON while raging, for a total of 34 in a rage. Assuming maximum hit points per hit die, you have a maximum of 182 HP while not raging and 206 HP while raging.

FMArthur
2009-08-04, 05:33 PM
Assuming that this challenge is ECL 8, as the linked thread in OP's post was, I submit a mongrelfolk barbarian 8. With a starting CON of 18, +2 hit die increases, a +4 racial bonus, and a +4 amulet, that becomes a 28. Take Improved Toughness and Dwarf's Toughness (Masters of the Wild, 3.0 book), for a total of +14 HP. Also take Reckless Rage (Races of Stone) for an extra +2 CON while raging, for a total of 34 in a rage. Assuming maximum hit points per hit die, you have a maximum of 182 HP while not raging and 206 HP while raging.

Dragonborn (RoD) is a LA 0 template, so there's no reason not to throw it in when pumping Con.

hotel_papa
2009-08-04, 05:44 PM
Umm... I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this question. Or the fact that 27 other people answered before me.

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 05:50 PM
Umm... I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this question. Or the fact that 27 other people answered before me.

Nicely played, sir.

Nicely played.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-08-04, 05:54 PM
A Shambling Mound gets no more than +4 Con at any given time!
Multiple unnamed bonuses from the same source do not stack. Temporary Con is like temporary HP, it overlaps rather than stacking.


Mongrelfolk (LA +0, Con +4), Dragonborn (LA +0, Con +2), Fighter 20, 2 flaws, Slow trait:
Improved Toughness (1), Toughness (1), Toughness (1), Toughness (1), Toughness (2), Toughness (3), Toughness (4), Dwarf's Toughness (6), Dwarf's Toughness (6), Dwarf's Toughness (8), Dwarf's Toughness (9), Dwarf's Toughness (10), Giant's Toughness (12), Giant's Toughness (12), Giant's Toughness (14), Giant's Toughness (15), Giant's Toughness (16), Dragon's Toughness (18), Dragon's Toughness (18), Dragon's Toughness (20)

Con 40 +15 (18 base, +6 race, +5 levels, +5 Tome, +6 Enhancement)
HP/level: d10 (spend remaining wealth on enough Wishes to get max HP/level)
Slow trait: +1 HP/level
HP via feats:
Improved Toughness: +20 @ level 20
Toughness x6: +3 per, +18 total
Dwarf's Toughness x5: +6 per, +30 total
Giant's Toughness x5: +9 per, +45 total
Dragon's Toughness x3: +12 per, +36 total
Total HP: 669

I could probably include some sort of Ring of Spell Storing + (insert spell that grants temporary HP) + Draconic Polymorph into (race with the highest Con score printed) + (insert spell that grants an untyped bonus to Con), but I'm not going to go through all of that work.

mikethepoor
2009-08-04, 05:55 PM
Dragonborn (RoD) is a LA 0 template, so there's no reason not to throw it in when pumping Con.

You're right. Doing so would increase HP to 190 in non-rage and 214 in rage. I thought dragonborn replaced racial traits instead of adding to them.

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 05:59 PM
A Shambling Mound gets no more than +4 Con at any given time!

But... but... http://www.ceder.net/pc/character/pikachu.png

Mr.Moron
2009-08-04, 06:04 PM
But... but... http://www.ceder.net/pc/character/pikachu.png

Pikachu is kind of lame anyway. Sure it's Spc.Atk can get artificially high with the Light Ball but that really isn't enough of a trick to play in the big time.

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 06:09 PM
Pikachu is kind of lame anyway. Sure it's Spc.Atk can get artificially high with the Light Ball but that really isn't enough of a trick to play in the big time.

...You just made Sparkie cry. Electric tears are welling out of my DS. She may be a Raichu now, but she hasn't forgotten her roots!

You meanie.