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View Full Version : Needlessly Complex, Quick Question [3.5 Magic Item Creation]



The Neoclassic
2009-08-04, 01:42 PM
First off, for all items except those with expensive materials components or which use spells that cost xp: Their cost of components to make the item is exactly one half of market price, correct?

Would it cause any notable amount of imbalance or inconvenience if in addition to the necessary feats, a certain number of ranks in a certain skill (or maybe a skill check, but that seems more bothersome and risky) was necessary to make most magic items? I know a few, but not very many, wondrous items require this. Or perhaps specify that they need to buy the jewelry or sword already made before adding the magic onto it, since they lack the skills to craft it themselves from raw materials?

Sorry, I know this is ridiculous and complex, but that's how I roll. Just let me know if this would or would not cause too much imbalance. Oh, and if my creation costs understanding is right. :smalltongue:

Johel
2009-08-04, 01:53 PM
You *could*. After all, if you're the DM, that's up to you. A DC might be more adapted (such as a craft check), as it wouldn't force the players to get to ridiculous lengths to get enough ranks in a skill that's not one of their class.

Only imbalance (and it isn't really one) :
This would make the objects more difficult to make. Not more costly, just more difficult, since your spellcaster will have to get enough ranks in a specific skill so to beat the roll.

That's it, as long as the spellcaster has to do it all by himself. If it's not the case, then it will just increase the cost of the item, not the difficulty itself.

ericgrau
2009-08-04, 02:06 PM
First Question: Yes.

Second: Depends how important skills are in your campaign. If not very, then the crafter would immediately put his ranks in the necessary crafting feat without caring one way or the other. As long as you don't need too many different skills to craft magic items. If skills are very important in your campaigns, it would be annoying to the party for the magic item crafter to be so short on knowledge skills. Unless another character fills the holes. If you mean requiring ranks in skills like jump, swim, etc., then that'd be a royal pain for most item crafters since these are cross-class skills for them. The existing items work out b/c bards have those skills and they and other skillmonkeys are the ones who want to use those items anyway.

And yeah, I do think those requirements are needlessly complex.

Glimbur
2009-08-04, 02:10 PM
I think this hurts Wizards the least while affecting non Int based casting classes the most simply because Int based casting means you max out your Int which also gives skill points for other things.

An easier way to explain where the base item comes from is that the cost of buying a really nice set of boots or whatever is part of the crafting cost.

Cieyrin
2009-08-04, 04:06 PM
I think this hurts Wizards the least while affecting non Int based casting classes the most simply because Int based casting means you max out your Int which also gives skill points for other things.

An easier way to explain where the base item comes from is that the cost of buying a really nice set of boots or whatever is part of the crafting cost.

I was under the impression of this is what you do to get your raw materials for your crafting, anyways, unless otherwise noted (getting a masterwork weapon or armor, for example). If one wants to make magic boots, you essentially get masterwork boots to magic up as part of the raw materials cost. Probably cost in the neighborhood of masterworking tools, unless you're adding shiny gems and whatnot, which understandably would increase the price then by the cut gem's value and so on and so forth.

ericgrau
2009-08-04, 05:18 PM
Ooh there you go, don't require any skill ranks since you can just buy the nice components. But if you want to spend a lot of time crafting (at least according to the craft rules) some of the components yourself, then you can.

The Neoclassic
2009-08-04, 05:31 PM
I know it's overly complex. I'm silly like that. :smallcool:

I like the idea of the default being that you buy masterwork boots or whatever. However... How much of the cost of speedy boots is the boots and how much is magical components? Yes, I know, most folks wouldn't care. :smalltongue: But let's say I have Craft (awesome boot-making) +10, so I can make those boots at half the cost the cobbler is selling them for... But are the masterwork boots 20 gp of the 2,000 gp cost or are they 200 gp of the cost? If I just kinda invent it as I go along, would that be OK or is there some good guideline? I know for magical weapons and armor the enhancement bonus price is distinct from the masterwork item price, so that's easy enough.

erikun
2009-08-04, 05:36 PM
I was under the impression of this is what you do to get your raw materials for your crafting, anyways, unless otherwise noted (getting a masterwork weapon or armor, for example).
This was my impression, too.

If you wanted to make a cloak of spider climb, you either needed to make it yourself or purchase one, which was included in the cost to create. If you really want it to be a specific style, such as with your deity's symbol on it, you'll need to be crafting it yourself or get it custom-made.

If you wanted to make a +1 Breastplate, you'll either need to craft it yourself or purchase a masterwork breastplate (which the rules specifically state).

Either way, you probably wouldn't need to craft an item unless it was incredibly unusual - such as the Apparatus of the Crab (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#apparatusoftheCrab) - or if you wanted to design it yourself. Thus, I don't think that crafting requirements would make sense in most cases.

erikun
2009-08-04, 05:41 PM
But are the masterwork boots 20 gp of the 2,000 gp cost or are they 200 gp of the cost?
Masterwork Armor costs +150 gp

Masterwork Weapons cost +300 gp

A royal outfit (cloak, robes, etc) costs 200 gp. A noble outfit costs 75 gp + 100 gp in jewelry.

Most masterwork clothing will probably cost around 100 gp to 200 gp, possibly less for individual articles of clothing. (A pair of boots wouldn't cost 150 gp by themselves.) If you really wanted to create your own, you're probably only saving 25 gp to 100 gp overall.