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View Full Version : [3.5] Looking for a Greyhawk God



Gorbash
2009-08-04, 07:08 PM
...whose name eludes me. I think I saw him in a WotC web enhancement/article that was linked on this forum, and I believe he was praised by optimizers for having a good favored weapon (Greatsword, I believe) and good domains (can't remember those). As I recall his symbol is a golden face, and he is related to strength, competetion or something like that. Possibly evil. Ring a bell?

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-08-04, 07:18 PM
Off the top of my head Kord was the CG Suel god of strength and fighting and used a greatsword but did not have a face for a symbol. Pelor is the LG god of the sun and strength and has a face for a symbol but does not use a greatsword.

You can search here http://www.imarvintpa.com/DnDLive/FindDeity.php or look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Greyhawk_deities

qcbtnsrm
2009-08-04, 07:19 PM
Kord?

Kord - CG - God of Athletics, Sport Brawling, Strength, and Courage.
Domains: Chaos, Good, Luck, Strength
Favored Weapon(s): Greatsword & Bastard Sword

Symbol is all wrong. He has a couple, but no golden face (that I am aware of).

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 07:19 PM
I think the Greatsword is Kord's weapon. He's CG in 3E, unaligned (because he's mostly about strength, he just happens to be moral about it) in 4E. His symbol looks nothing like what you said, though.

arguskos
2009-08-04, 07:21 PM
I believe you are talking about Zarus, god of human supremacy. If that's the case, you can find him in Races of Destiny, IIRC.

Course, I could be wrong.

Tam_OConnor
2009-08-04, 07:21 PM
Closest I can think of is Kelanen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelanen), N god of swordfighting and the like. Doesn't match the holy symbol, but everything else, so far as I can tell.

EDIT: Though, Zarus (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041203a) looks like a closer fit. Blighted Ninjas.

BenTheJester
2009-08-04, 07:23 PM
Maybe Zarus?

The god of human. Got Destiny, Evil, Law, Strength and War domains.


Edit: And I just checked and his symbol is a Golden Face

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 07:24 PM
Oh, Zarus. You so wacky.

Draken
2009-08-04, 07:28 PM
Most definitely Zarus, Greater God, The First Man. He is found in races of destiny.

Alignment: Lawful Evil.
Domains: Destiny, Evil, Law, Strength, War.
Favored Weapon: Greatsword.

He is the god of human racial supremacy. He is basically the god of fantastic racism.

And look at the ninja'ing.

arguskos
2009-08-04, 07:29 PM
Yay! My memory worked out for once! Go me!

Oh, and for some content now. So, yeah, Zarus, the most conceited punk god to ever be a conceited punk ever. I don't actually like Zarus that much, come to think of it.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-08-04, 07:30 PM
Oh, Zarus. You so wacky.

From http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041203a
"But Zarus was not content. He spoke with the world and begged for a mate -- and it created his wife, Astra."

Gorbash
2009-08-04, 07:31 PM
Yup, Zarus it is. Thx, playgrounders. :smallsmile:

I just forgot about the whole being-evil-and-hating-nonhumans thingie, because I wanted to play his Cleric. As a half-orc. :smallbiggrin:

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 07:32 PM
From http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041203a
"But Zarus was not content. He spoke with the world and begged for a mate -- and it created his wife, Astra."

...

ASTRAL IS NOT PLEASED.


Yup, Zarus it is. Thx, playgrounders. :smallsmile:

I just forgot about the whole being-evil-and-hating-nonhumans thingie, because I wanted to play his Cleric. As a half-orc. :smallbiggrin:

That could actually be really interesting.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-08-04, 07:34 PM
Yup, Zarus it is. Thx, playgrounders. :smallsmile:

I just forgot about the whole being-evil-and-hating-nonhumans thingie, because I wanted to play his Cleric. As a half-orc. :smallbiggrin:

Er...Zarus is not "Greyhawk" though far as I know....

Kord would be a good fit...

Or if you want to explore the evil orc half there is the evil but loveably stupid Orcish god of strength, Bahgtru. There is the story of when Grummsh subbed his toe on a rock, Bahgtru proceeded to pound it to dust with his bare hands.

Random832
2009-08-04, 07:39 PM
That could actually be really interesting.

You know - I've been working on a character concept of a half-elf who hates nonhumans (especially elves)

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 07:39 PM
Zarus is Greyhawk. Just an addition to Greyhawk.

Gorbash
2009-08-04, 07:40 PM
Kord would be a good fit...

Too goody-too-shoes for my taste.


That could actually be really interesting.

I see your point and I thought of that too, but the problem is, my original idea was to play a Cleric of Hextor, but since the rest of the party are being an ass and want to play good characters, I had to shift my character into worshiping War as an ideal, but I'm looking for other neutral-aligned Gods of War. I thought of Zarus, but forgot about that evil thingie...

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 07:42 PM
Too goody-too-shoes for my taste.



I see your point and I thought of that too, but the problem is, my original idea was to play a Cleric of Hextor, but since the rest of the party are being an ass and want to play good characters, I had to shift my character into worshiping War as an ideal, but I'm looking for other neutral-aligned Gods of War. I thought of Zarus, but forgot about that evil thingie...

I would go with Kord, still. As said, in 4E he got shifted to Unaligned, and that's not because he's not Chaotic Good, but because he's not very strongly in that direction. If you keep a vague code of honor pertaining to strength (nothing underhanded and no torture), I think he'd be happy.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-08-04, 07:43 PM
Too goody-too-shoes for my taste.


If you want to explore the evil orc half there is the evil but loveably stupid Orcish god of strength, Bahgtru. There is the old story of when Gruummsh stubbed his toe on a rock, Bahgtru proceeded to pound it to dust with his bare and bloody hands.

Or there is Llerg, the Suel god of beasts and strength. He's CN. Rival to Kord. Fits your cleric concept if you beat things up and summon animals to beat things up.

Tam_OConnor
2009-08-04, 07:49 PM
Well, if we're plugging deities now, Kelenan is the blademaster of the gods. Pity is, I don't believe that he's been updated to 3.x.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-08-04, 07:53 PM
Well, if we're plugging deities now, Kelenan is the blademaster of the gods. Pity is, I don't believe that he's been updated to 3.x.

I think they gave him Travel and War in some magazine...but I guess the OP could pick War and Strength or any other combo that would fit...

...and if were divine name dropping, you can't go wrong by picking Tritherion...

Gorbash
2009-08-04, 08:09 PM
I would go with Kord, still. As said, in 4E he got shifted to Unaligned, and that's not because he's not Chaotic Good, but because he's not very strongly in that direction. If you keep a vague code of honor pertaining to strength (nothing underhanded and no torture), I think he'd be happy.

Yeah, but he doesn't have War domain of which I'm fond of, so I'd be stuck with some lame simple weapon.


Well, if we're plugging deities now, Kelenan is the blademaster of the gods. Pity is, I don't believe that he's been updated to 3.x.

I googled him up and I very much like him! Since I can't find any additional info on him, concerning his domains other than War and Travel, I guess I'll just see if my DM would allow me to cherry pick domains as if I worshiped an ideal. War, Pride and Fury, here I come! :smallbiggrin:

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-08-04, 08:21 PM
Zarus is Greyhawk. Just an addition to Greyhawk.

Ah, I see. Don't like. Not the addition. But the writing. Compare "The Book of Zarus" from the WotC link above


Long ago, according to legend, Zarus was the first man, created by the world itself. No deity had a hand in his creation, because no deity could have conceived such a perfect creature. Members of the other races trembled to see him, for they knew that he was their superior in every way. His grace surpassed that of the elves, his sturdiness astounded the dwarves, his crafts were the awe of gnomes and halflings everywhere.

As long as Zarus was alone, the other races allowed him to live, secure in the knowledge that he could not reproduce. But Zarus was not content. He spoke with the world and begged for a mate -- and it created his wife, Astra. She was as perfect a woman as Zarus was a man, and the other races trembled yet again, fearing that this perfect couple would spawn a new race that would overshadow them all. To prevent this, the leaders of each race gathered in secret and plotted Zarus's demise. They brewed a poison and mixed it in fine wine, which they gave to him as a wedding present.

Zarus knew that the others plotted his death, but he could not honorably refuse the gift. He toasted their health, and drank. The poison worked swiftly, but as Zarus felt his life departing the world took pity upon him and elevated him to godhood. Now Zarus looked down upon the world, and he wiped away the tears of his wife Astra. "Do not weep for me, beloved," he consoled her, "for I am now a god, and set to watch over our people. You will bear me children -- they already lie in your womb -- and these will be the start of our race. All the other races will quake in fear, knowing that they cannot match us."

to an old, old story of Gruumsh


In the beginning all the gods met and drew lots for the parts of the world where their races would dwell. The elven gods drew the lot that gave them green forests and bright woodland; the dwarf gods drew the lot that gave them the riches of the mountains; the gnomish gods got the sunlit, rocky hills; and the halfling gods picked the lot that gave them the rolling fields and meadows. The human gods drew the lot that allowed the humans to dwell where they pleased, in any environment. Then the assembled gods turned to the orcish gods and laughed loud and long. "All the lots are taken!" they said tauntingly. "Where will your people dwell, One-Eye? There is no place left!"

There was silence upon the world then, as Gruumsh One-Eye lifted his great iron spear and stretched it over the world. The shaft blotted out the sun over a great part of the lands, as he spoke, "No! You lie! You have rigged the drawing of lots, hoping to cheat me and my followers. But One-Eye never sleeps; One-Eye sees all. There is a place for orcs to dwell...here!" With that, Gruumsh struck the forests with his spear, and a part of them withered with rot. "And here!" he bellowed, and his spear pierced the mountains, opening mighty rifts and chasm. "And here!," and the spearhead split the hills and made them shake, covering them in dust. "And here again!," and the black spear gouged the meadows, and made them bare.

"There!," roared He-Who-Watches triumphantly, and his voice carried to the ends of the world. "There is where the orcs shall dwell! And they shall survive, and multiply, and grow stronger. And a day will come when they cover the world, and they shall slay all of your collected peoples! Orcs shall inherit the world you sought to cheat me of!"

Thus the orcs had their homes, and the day shall come when orcs will rule alone, and this is why they wage war: War for the righteous wrath of Gruumsh, war unceasing and endless.

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 08:33 PM
I... don't see the problem? :smallconfused:

Draken
2009-08-04, 08:38 PM
I see no problem either. Creation stories are ultimately, just tales the gods make up and tell their followers as the absolute truth.

Of course. The absolute truth is that the world used to belong to giant psychic fish who enslaved primitive humanoids as they elevated themselves from the ranks of the monkeys. The gods showed up sometime after that.

Tiki Snakes
2009-08-04, 08:45 PM
I... don't see the problem? :smallconfused:

I'd say that story B is made of Epic and Win, whereas Zoras is kind of hakneyed and uninspiring really.

I must say, it's the first time I've caught sight of a decent bit of Gruumsh Lore. He usually seems so...close to forgetable.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-08-04, 08:49 PM
I... don't see the problem? :smallconfused:

Problem is too strong a word. I didn't buy Races of Destiny but it seems to have had some good stuff in it.

The newer story reminds me sort of the older story and of course that was ripped from historical myths.

Maybe it's just me but the newer story seems a bit more dry and less interesting somehow. There is the "Zarathustra" reference. That was intentional. Fitting with the whole ubermench theme but, again, somehow, it doesn't sell me.

I guess I'm just kvetching...

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 08:52 PM
I'd say that story B is made of Epic and Win, whereas Zoras is kind of hakneyed and uninspiring really.

I must say, it's the first time I've caught sight of a decent bit of Gruumsh Lore. He usually seems so...close to forgetable.

I like them both, personally.

Gorbash
2009-08-04, 08:54 PM
But the writing. Compare "The Book of Zarus" from the WotC link above

Well, it's only natural that every religion has its own version of the exsistence of the world/gods/men, just look at the real world.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-08-04, 08:55 PM
I'd say that story B is made of Epic and Win, whereas Zoras is kind of hakneyed and uninspiring really.

I must say, it's the first time I've caught sight of a decent bit of Gruumsh Lore. He usually seems so...close to forgetable.

It's by Roger Moore from Unearthed Arcana, link here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruumsh

Thurbane
2009-08-04, 09:41 PM
Kelanen has 3.5 stats in the Living Greyhawk Deities PDF. It only lists Travel and War as his domains. :smallfrown: 2 domains isn't enough...

Devils_Advocate
2009-08-04, 11:12 PM
Zarus is Greyhawk. Just an addition to Greyhawk.
He's not listed as a Living Greyhawk deity. Greyhawk's god of human supremacy is Wastri.


Since I can't find any additional info on him
Read ye the list of Living Greyhawk deities (http://www.wizards.com/rpga/downloads/LG_Deities.zip). It contains a description of Kelenan as well as many other deities. It also lists deities by domain (at the end). There are a bunch listed under War.

Although you could just spend a feat on a weapon proficiency.


Kelanen has 3.5 stats in the Living Greyhawk Deities PDF. It only lists Travel and War as his domains. :smallfrown: 2 domains isn't enough...
Sure it is. I mean, they are. A Cleric gets two domains, so two is enough to choose from. And he's only a hero-god, so he's lucky to have domains and grant spells at all. I don't think that everyone with Divine Rank 0 can even do that.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-08-04, 11:29 PM
He's not listed as a Living Greyhawk deity. Greyhawk's god of human supremacy is Wastri.

Wastri did not test well in the latest marketing surveys. Our studies concluded that players wanted human-centered divine characters to have be more human and less toad. But anthromomorphic geckos still get positive reviews. (The new god is an addition to the "standard", ie Greyhawk, pantheon in Races of Destiny.)


I don't think that everyone with Divine Rank 0 can even do that.
Yes but why should that put a limit on the player? The player is asking for War and Pride or Fury or some such domain as a follower of Kelanen not the Pie Juggling and Butterfly domains. Pride lets you reroll one roll per day. And Fury gives you some combat bonus. Honestly, Travel is much better. Freedom of movement as free action? Fly and Dimension Door and Teleport for my fighting cleric? Yes, please.

Devils_Advocate
2009-08-05, 12:53 AM
Wastri did not test well in the latest marketing surveys. Our studies concluded that players wanted human-centered divine characters to have be more human and less toad.
That does seem like a fairly reasonable expectation.

Oh, Wastri, you so crazy. I remember someone discussing his odd portfolio in some thread. "Fear my god of bigoted, self-deceptive frogs!"


Yes but why should that put a limit on the player?
Well, I was sort of speaking within the context of the 3.5 rules as they are, where a Cleric chooses domains off of his deity's list. This is, of course, limiting by its nature. If you wanna argue that a Cleric should be able to pick any domains that are thematically appropriate instead, that's a different kettle of fish.

Coidzor
2009-08-05, 02:23 AM
Or if you want to explore the evil orc half there is the evil but loveably stupid Orcish god of strength, Bahgtru. There is the story of when Grummsh subbed his toe on a rock, Bahgtru proceeded to pound it to dust with his bare hands.

<_< The toe or... >_> The rock...?


Although you could just spend a feat on a weapon proficiency.

And get something tasty like an Elven Courtblade or sommat.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-08-05, 02:36 AM
<_< The toe or... >_> The rock...?

Boy, oh boy, I'm sure glad the orcish drill sergeant didn't hear you say that...

Gorbash
2009-08-05, 05:54 AM
Although you could just spend a feat on a weapon proficiency.

That's wasting a feat. And clerics don't get many, so those I pick must make be really good. :smallwink:


Well, I was sort of speaking within the context of the 3.5 rules as they are, where a Cleric chooses domains off of his deity's list.

Thing is, I get a bonus domain from Ordained Champion and since Kelanen has only two, I'll just pick something thematically appropriate. Such as Pride/Fury. I still can't decide whether I should pick Fury or Travel, though. :smallfrown:

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-08-05, 10:16 AM
Thing is, I get a bonus domain from Ordained Champion and since Kelanen has only two, I'll just pick something thematically appropriate. Such as Pride/Fury. I still can't decide whether I should pick Fury or Travel, though. :smallfrown:

I would go with war, travel and fury. Those seem more in keeping with Kelanen's shtick of the Master Of Swords. Pride not so much. Plus the main benefit of Pride is the 1/day reroll, no? I think you'll get more mileage out of the other 3 domains.

Gorbash
2009-08-05, 06:36 PM
It's not 1/day. It's whenever you roll a 1 on a saving throw. You'd be glad you had it if you roll a 1 on a save or die... Fury is a nice boost against bosses. You get a +2 on attack and damage, meaning if you wield a two-handed weapon it's +6 on damage if you reduce PA penalty by 2. Unfortunately, every spell except Rage or possibly quickened True Strike suck.. Travel has nice spells and a decent granted power (easily replacable by Freedom of Movement cast on time), but most are usable out of combat and a Wizard will have them too (and be able to cast them sooner since I'll be losing levels with Ordained Champion).

Decisions, decisions... :smallfrown:

Nai_Calus
2009-08-05, 07:19 PM
The problem with the Zarus one is that it is both boring and massively passive. Zarus doesn't do anything in it, other than be a pompus git at the end. We learn nothing about Zarus from it.

The Gruumsh one, on the other hand, is entertaining, active and actually gives us a feel for the character of the god. Gruumsh comes across as mighty and opportunistic and dominant, someone who will not suffer slights without payback. You get an idea of what Gruumsh is and stands for from the story.

Thus.

chiasaur11
2009-08-05, 07:28 PM
I see no problem either. Creation stories are ultimately, just tales the gods make up and tell their followers as the absolute truth.

Of course. The absolute truth is that the world used to belong to giant psychic fish who enslaved primitive humanoids as they elevated themselves from the ranks of the monkeys. The gods showed up sometime after that.

And then there was the bit with the British guy, the phone booth, and the robot dog.

Even today, a properly vocodered voice saying "Master?" can make most of the inhabitants of the nine hells wet themselves. It's fun!

Tam_OConnor
2009-08-05, 10:12 PM
...Chiasaur, I think I love you.