Where should I move?

[ghost_warlock]

Around this time next year, I'll finally be able to shed a large financial burden in the form of a credit card repayment loan I've been saddled with for a few years now. As part of my celebration in my new-found freedom, I'm looking to quit my dead-end job and relocate; shuffle the deck of my life a bit.

Obviously, wherever I go, I'll need to be able to secure housing and employment relatively quickly. I'll probably finish out the year where I am to build up some decent savings, but nothing more than what I could potentially live off for a couple months.

So, the problem is, where should I go? I'm hoping my fellow playgrounders can help me decide. :smallsmile:

I'm sure that some of you want me to move closer to you (or possibly further away). In these cases, I'd like to hear what's nice (or horrible) about where you live.

Alternately, just about any advice you could give about packing up and moving far-far away would be appreciated. Also, I'll likely be bringing my cat and girlfriend along, so any plans will have to accomodate them. (Obviously, my girlfriend will also be involved in planning all of this; though my cat will just have to live with whatever we decide! :smallamused:)

I suppose I should also mention that, although I'm potentially interested in moving overseas or otherwise to another country, I'm not optimistic about the liklihood of this given the numerous complications with citizenship, travel, and how hard such a move would be on my poor kitty. :smallfrown: Still, any advice is welcome.

@v: Given that I'm monolingual (English), Australia is actually one of the more attractive options for emigration, along with the U.K. I'd be lying if I said it wasn't an attractive option outside the numerous difficulties involved with such a move.

[billtodamax]

Australia. Really, you only have to beat off the snakes/spiders/jellyfish/wombats 2-3 times a day.

On a serious note: I have next to no idea. Move to Texas! For teh lulz.

[Player_Zero]

Bottom of the ocean. That way they won't be able to find you... For a while..

[horngeek]

Australia, because despite everything apart from some of the sheep being poisonous, it is really a very nice country.

[charl]

Anywhere with proper welfare, public healthcare and a good educational system.

[Castaras]

Anywhere with proper welfare, public healthcare and a good educational system.

UK: Check, check, check.

Yep. Come join us crazy brits.

[Evil DM Mark3]

I can only advise the UK if you enjoy rain (which I do). Seriously I assume that you are unlikely to want to change nations but I honestly would never want to move to a new country, I shall be British till the day I die.

Unless, you know, a lot of money was involved. Or Britian stopped existing. Or I got amnesia. Or whatever.

[Felixaar]

You should definitely move down here to Australia - Melbourne, specifically. If you do, you can stay with me until you find your own place. I have a futon that folds into a double bed and this place is suprisingly comfortable for crowds despite how small it is. I could easily get you a job where I work if you wanted but I doubt you'd be interested (I work at Hungry Jacks, AKA Burger King). There's plently of employment signs around, though, so I'm sure you could find something with ease.

Reasons why you should move to Melbourne? It's nice, in general. It's got the comforts of a big city but it's not as crazy as most, and the land around is absolutely dotted with adorable country towns and great camping spots. The great ocean road is nearby - and I have a secret beach that you'd have to be crazy not to love and is always deserted - as well as lots of fantastic national parks. Plus, there's so much to see and do in Australia and I would personally take it as my charge to take you on trips around the country. Ulurru, the Pindan, Tasmania... Ah, we could have such fun, my friend.


Anywhere with proper welfare, public healthcare and a good educational system.

While I agree, I don't see how any of these things really apply to a schooled immigrant.

Oh, and it's pretty cold here in Melb - it gets hotter as you go up, though. A lot hotter.

If you're looking to stay in states I'd reccomend somewhere in Oregon. I loved Oregon. Also, people in Alaska are typically really friendly.

[Zeb The Troll]

Well, let's start with where you're living now and go from there.

What would you like to be different with your new locale?

What would you like to be relatively the same?

What sort of features are important to you? (i.e. are you looking for something more urban, rural, agrarian, warm, cold, cultural opportunities, et cetera)

[LCR]

Well, I guess the UK is more interesting culturally, since you'll be in Europe and all those big cities with nice museums and theatres are in spitting distance (especially if you've lived in the US before. Compared to America, Europe is tiny).
And if you don't like the weather in England, move to Gibraltar or Malta. Or the Channel Islands. Guernsey, in particular. It's great for vacations (so there have to be jobs in tourism or such).

[potatocubed]

I vote Boston. Boston is great.

[horngeek]

Also: Australia has the best Opera House in the world.

The outside is in Sydney, and the inside's in Melbourne. :smalltongue:

[Jinura]

Well depends.. If you want welfare but no cash left for fun, then pick Denmark, largest public sector in the world. ( All right shouldn't begin to rant about that now..) But I've heard good things about UK, that or Australia and USA are the maybes on where i would like to move.

[Player_Zero]

Well, I guess the UK is more interesting culturally, since you'll be in Europe and all those big cities with nice museums and theatres are in spitting distance (especially if you've lived in the US before. Compared to America, Europe is tiny).
And if you don't like the weather in England, move to Gibraltar or Malta. Or the Channel Islands. Guernsey, in particular. It's great for vacations (so there have to be jobs in tourism or such).

Umm... Have you ever seen, you know, a map of the world at all?

[charl]

UK: Check, check, check.

Yep. Come join us crazy brits.

Most of Western and Northern Europe works, but the UK has the bonus of being Anglophone just like the OP so I second this one.



While I agree, I don't see how any of these things really apply to a schooled immigrant.

Having them means the population around you will be doing well. If you can stand poor people living out on the streets and/or a heavy segregated society then sure, ignore it.

The healthcare thing also applies to everyone, even schooled immigrants (who might be unfavoured by insurance-style systems anyway). When you can get free healthcare like in the UK that's another thing you don't need to spend money on, plus you never need to worry about being rejected for insurance and ending up unable to pay a hospital bill.



Umm... Have you ever seen, you know, a map of the world at all?

Have you? Check a globe or a proper projection and you'll quite clearly see that Europe is tiny.

[horngeek]

Depends on whether he means America the continent, North America the continent, or America the highly inaccurate name for the USA.

[Castaras]

Umm... Have you ever seen, you know, a map of the world at all?

In relation to the fact that the USA is a single country, with 52 large counties, compared to Europe having lots of much smaller countries, with tiny counties in comparison to the USA, LCR is correct. While in area they're around the same size, perspective wise America "feels" much larger.

[Player_Zero]

In relation to the fact that the USA is a single country, with 52 large counties, compared to Europe having lots of much smaller countries, with tiny counties in comparison to the USA, LCR is correct. While in area they're around the same size, perspective wise America "feels" much larger.

Well excuuuse me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPxY8lpYAUM) for arguing semantics! First you snub my under-the-sea option and now this!

I hate you people!

[charl]

When people say Europe it's important to remember they usually don't count Russia. The European territories of Russia is almost half the continent, and not counting them makes Europe much smaller compared to the USA. Even less so if you only count the EU, that a lot of people also do.

[Zeb The Troll]

Are they that close in area? I don't know, Europe always seemed smaller to me. Not "tiny" by any means but it doesn't look like there are any two points that would take ~45 hours to drive between, straight through, at interstate speeds (~65mph) as it would to go from NY, NY to SF, CA.

[Castaras]

Well excuuuse me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPxY8lpYAUM) for arguing semantics! First you snub my under-the-sea option and now this!

I hate you people!

I hate you tooooo. <3 :smallbiggrin:

[charl]

Are they that close in area? I don't know, Europe always seemed smaller to me. Not "tiny" by any means but it doesn't look like there are any two points that would take ~45 hours to drive between, straight through, at interstate speeds (~65mph) as it would to go from NY, NY to SF, CA.

The USA (all territories) has a slightly smaller area than the continent of Europe. Look it up.

[InaVegt]

Whatever you do, don't come to the Netherlands, not because I don't want you here, but because it's not even close to being the best choice.

I stay here because it's easy, and I've often considered going elsewhere.

[Zeb The Troll]

The USA (all territories) has a slightly smaller area than the continent of Europe. Look it up.That still doesn't cover what I'm talking about. New York, New York to San Francisco is 2900 miles. Edinburgh to Athens is 2300 miles.

Err, nevermind. I keep forgetting that Ukraine and Belarus are technically Europe.

[charl]

That still doesn't cover what I'm talking about. New York, New York to San Francisco is 2900 miles. Edinburgh to Athens is 2300 miles.

Err, nevermind. I keep forgetting that Ukraine and Belarus are technically Europe.

And Russia west of the Urals.

The distance of Edinburgh to Astrakhan is probably a great deal longer.

[SMEE]

Well, being abroad a few times, I can offer some advice.

If you are planning to move to another country, be prepared for a major cultural shock, even if said country speak the same language as you do.
Things simple are different.

I was baffled by the lack of couples walking around giving hands, the major lack of PDAs, the food among other things (coffee being the biggest one) when I went to the US last year. It will take a while to get used to the new culture.

Just keep that in mind if you decide to move abroad.

[Yarram]

Come to Australia! Hell, come to G-Land!!!!! (For the 4 months before I move to Sydney)

[InaVegt]

That still doesn't cover what I'm talking about. New York, New York to San Francisco is 2900 miles. Edinburgh to Athens is 2300 miles.

Amsterdam to Oranjestad is 4901 miles, and is in a single European Country (Kingdom of the Netherlands)

Sure, Oranjestad isn't in Europe, but who cares?


Err, nevermind. I keep forgetting that Ukraine and Belarus are technically Europe.

Technically?

European Union and Europe are hardly the same thing. Europe is a geographic region that covers the part of Eurasia that lies to the west of the Ural. The European Union is a political organization with member states that happen to all be inside said geographical region.

[Tiger Duck]

Belgium is nice, It has proper welfare, public healthcare and one of the best educational system (I seem to remember top 5 but could be as 'low' as top 10).
Most people under 50 speak at least reasonable English. but you would eventually learn ether Dutch or French. depending where you go.

[thubby]

I've heard that the internet is more expensive/slower in Australia, there any truth to that?

If i were you i would move to new zealand, because i have an unhealthy obsession with kiwi birds.

[Ninja Chocobo]

Umm... Have you ever seen, you know, a map of the world at all?

It's possible he might have meant the individual countries in Europe?
I mean, I'm pretty sure we've got states bigger'n many of 'em.

Also Sydney is the best city in Australia. Any dissenting opinions (especially coming from Melbourners) are wrong.

[InaVegt]

It's possible he might have meant the individual countries in Europe?
I mean, I'm pretty sure we've got states bigger'n many of 'em.

Also Sydney is the best city in Australia. Any dissenting opinions (especially coming from Melbourners) are wrong.

I'm pretty sure you have no state greater than Russia :smalltongue:

Also, have fun being the best city of skin cancertopia.

[Felixaar]

I've heard that the internet is more expensive/slower in Australia, there any truth to that?

Yuppers. Not only do we not have as many wifi hot spots, and only a few of them are free, but internet is generally slower and typically more expensive.

Of course, we're pretty laid back folks, so no one really cares.

Oh, and Ninja Chocobo, just how many times have you actually BEEN to Melbourne, mm? Because personally, I'd call it about even.

[charl]

Isn't Australian Internet traffic state censored as well? Like in China, but less oppressive?

[Anuan]

Also Sydney is the best city in Australia. Any dissenting opinions (especially coming from Melbourners) are wrong.

Sydney is a pile of fail made up of smaller piles of fail.
I have never visited Melbourne.
I have lived a few hours from Sydney for the past year and a half, bit more.
Once again, I've never been to Melbourne, so I can't say if it's any good, but at least it has the fact that it isn't Sydney in its favour.

Edit: ^: No. It was going to be, but everyone, including the ISPs basically laughed at the Government and went "Yeah, that's not gonna happen, stfu."

[Zeb The Troll]

Technically?

European Union and Europe are hardly the same thing. Europe is a geographic region that covers the part of Eurasia that lies to the west of the Ural. The European Union is a political organization with member states that happen to all be inside said geographical region.Who said anything about the EU?? My memory predates the EU by a good bit. When I grew up, when I joined the armed forces, those two countries were behind "the Iron Curtain" and were philosophically "USSR" and not European. I am very much a child of the Cold War which most posters here only know about from history books. So yes, "technically".

[Alarra]

The relative sizes of Europe vs. America don't really have much bearing on where Ghost Warlock should move. (Correct me if I'm wrong, GW....does the size of continent/country have a bearing on your decision? :smalltongue:) Anyway...maybe we should move back on topic :smallsmile:

[KuReshtin]

[back on track]


Well, let's start with where you're living now and go from there.

What would you like to be different with your new locale?

What would you like to be relatively the same?

What sort of features are important to you? (i.e. are you looking for something more urban, rural, agrarian, warm, cold, cultural opportunities, et cetera)

These are very good questions.
It's very difficult to give any sort of advice when so little basic information is offered in the original post.

[Kaelaroth]

Move to New England?

It's rich, you won't need a visa/passport, it's liberal, and very pretty in the autumn. Plus: some great cities, good universities (if you're looking for further learning, or have collegey kids), a very clean energy source in comparison to the rest of the USA, great schools, good healthcare, low obesity and crime rates...

[Ikialev]

Become one with Russia.

[Ninja Chocobo]

Oh, and Ninja Chocobo, just how many times have you actually BEEN to Melbourne, mm? Because personally, I'd call it about even.

Five or so?
Soddin' trams, it's like they took the worst bits out of trains and buses and glued 'em together. And what are you trying to call trains?

[Adjudicator]

My $0.02.

I'm an American that has lived in the UK for 3+ years (and since moved back to the U.S.). I'm also a lawyer. There are some very important things to consider before moving to a different country.

First, most countries will not let you simply move there on an immigrant visa without already having employment lined up. In fact, most countries have very tough procedures to follow for trying to move there for employment, even if you already have a job lined up. And, while you can visit many of the places mentioned so far on a 90 day tourist visa (sometimes even longer) you are legally prohibited from working a full-time job on that visa. If you get caught, you can, and often will be, deported. In fact, in Britain, even when I had a job lined up ahead of time, it took me nearly two months to get the paperwork processed to obtain my National Insurance Number, the UK equivalent of the Social Security Number, and that was required before I was allowed to work.

Second, depending on where you live in the US, cost of living can be a huge shock when moving overseas. I had two job offers when I decided to move back to the U.S. The first was in the UK and the second here. Both offered roughly the same pay (given the exchange rate at the time) but on the British salary, I'd have been living in an efficiency apartment, while on the US salary I could afford a much nicer place. Also, to Americans, food costs in Europe generally are amazingly high. We are not used to paying what food can run cost in the EU.

Third, your savings will not last very long in the UK, or the EU. I'm not sure what the conversion rate is for Australia, but the US Dollar is weak against the pound and the euro right now, and you'll burn through a lot of that with moving expenses - especially since you'll either have to ship furniture, try to find a (more expensive) furnished apartment, or buy furniture when you get over there. Be prepared to ship things anyway, as there's no way to take all your belongings with you on a single airline trip, these days.

Finally, for all the "realities" I just through out there, the best years of my life so far have were spent in the UK. I greatly enjoyed it and would highly recommend it to anyone. You just have to go into it with your eyes open and realize that it's not like moving in the US. You can't just pick up and start from scratch in a different country.

Best of luck in your decision process. Make sure you let us know what you choose!

[Telonius]

Ghost - what industry are you (and your girlfriend) looking to get into? That could help narrow it down.

[Mauve Shirt]

I'd suggest you move to MD, but jobs are hard to get and housing is expensive. At least where I am. Because here, everyone works for the government. :smallannoyed: Maybe the eastern shore has better luck.
Move to Fredericksburg!
Oh wait, same deal.
Don't move to the DC area.

Go to England.

[Player_Zero]

If I see you on the shores of England I'll shoot you down, boy! I'll be on you like a strong moss.

There's only room for one playgrounder in England.

Also, all those other English playgrounders are me in disguise. Or maybe some sort of multiple personality disorder. Who knows! That's the whimsy of England.

[Kaelaroth]

Also, all those other English playgrounders are me in disguise. Or maybe some sort of multiple personality disorder. Who knows! That's the whimsy of England.

We're all aspects of some Englander's raging subconscious. I'd like it to be Stephen Fry, but I doubt it is. :smallfrown:

[Archonic Energy]

If I see you on the shores of England I'll shoot you down, boy! I'll be on you like a strong moss.

There's only room for one playgrounder in England.

Also, all those other English playgrounders are me in disguise. Or maybe some sort of multiple personality disorder. Who knows! That's the whimsy of England.

the UKitP meets must be fun then?
:smalltongue:

[Keld Denar]

I just moved to Seattle about a year ago, blindly. I had never even been to the state of Washington before I crossed the boarder with everything I owned in my car. Its been crazy fun here though. Seattle isn't crazy big like Chicago or sprawling like Phoenix or Houston, but its still very big. The weather, contrary to popular belief, is gorgeous. Winter is kinda rainy, but not 24/7 downpore. The only thing that might disadvantage you is that while there is no state income tax (yay!), sales taxes in seattle between state, city, and King county, are right around 10%. Property taxes are pretty standard though. If you lived closer to Tacoma, could could cross the boarder to Oregon and shop with 0 sales tax and get the best of both worlds, although that doesn't work with big ticket items like cars and large electronics. Tacoma is kinda ghetto though, from what I've heard. :P

Finances aside, Seattle is crazy fun! Awesome night life is awesome!

[arguskos]

Actually, I'll echo Keld Denar's recommendation of Seattle. I've visited many times for family, and it's just wonderful. The weather is quite pleasant, the city is interesting and flavorful, the people are kind, and the food is great. I can't recommend it strongly enough. Once I'm done with school here in Texas, I'm moving out to Seattle ASAP (ideally, to San Juan Island, but that's a bit pricey, so that's a maybe).

[Zanaril]

I can only advise the UK if you enjoy rain (which I do).

People overexaggerate about the rain. But we do talk about the weather too much.

Then again, I supposedly live in the driest part of the UK, and we've had a few heavy downpours in the last week or so.

[mangosta71]

As cool as it would be to have you close enough to hang out, I'd have to advise against the south. Cost of living is low, but so are most salaries. And the people tend to be zealous and closed-minded. I think you would hate living here even more than I do.

I'm a fan of the west coast. Property is more expensive, but the scenery is beautiful and the people are generally pleasant. I hear good things about New England too, particularly cultural aspects that appeal to me, but I have not yet had a chance to visit.

[ghost_warlock]

Bottom of the ocean. That way they won't be able to find you... For a while..
My girlfriend actually likes this idea. If only we could keep people from flooding our place everytime they drop anchor on our glass-dome ceiling!


Move to Australia
My girlfriend and I actually both find this an attractive proposition, though we have our concerns about having to ship all of our various crap there or replace it when we arrive. Also, work Visas and the like would likely be a huge issue. Although, the offer of place to crash while we get on our feet is much appreciated! :smalltongue:

How cold is 'pretty cold'? I've grown up in temperate/humid Iowa and spent four years up in the mountains in Colorado. Here where I currently live, the average temperature during the winter is in the teens and twenties (degrees Fahrenheit), but windchill can easily drop it to below zero. I remember the temperature being 15 below thanks to windchill once last winter.

Generally speaking, I'd prefer warmer temperatures. I think I actually prefer higher humidity, though it's not really a priority.


Move to the U.K.
I visited the U.K. a few years back and I generally enjoyed myself, this is another attractive prospect but for the issues with emigration.

As for money/conversion issues; I'm well-aware of the exchange rate - a good part of the debt I'm finally getting paid off was accrued during/upon return from my trip to Europe all those years ago! The trip completely drained my savings and I returned to the states to find rent, utility, and college bills!


Well, let's start with where you're living now and go from there.

What would you like to be different with your new locale?

What would you like to be relatively the same?

What sort of features are important to you? (i.e. are you looking for something more urban, rural, agrarian, warm, cold, cultural opportunities, et cetera)

I currently reside in Sioux City, Iowa (Midwest U.S.A.).

I think I'd prefer my new residence to be more-or-less rural. I'm more of a Big Sky person than Crowding Buildings. I realize that the variety of recreational options are a major draw for the city, however, especially with regards to things I enjoy such as museums, zoos, and live theater performances. Around here, I generally settle for rented movies, walks at the park, and the rare concert. I used to go camping quite often when younger, but I've had a hard time getting away for camping trips in recent years due to scheduling conflicts with my girlfriend and my cousin (my traditional camping buddy).

Also, I'm looking to live somewhere with a variety of good food - eating out is something I rather enjoy and it annoys me that there's not much variety where I currently live.


*things to keep in mind*
Thanks for the head's up! I do expect a certain degree of culture shock and I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for small differences that I might over-look that can be a huge deal. Such as, here in the states (driving on the right-hand side of the road), it's legal to make a right-hand turn at a red light. I've heard this isn't true elsewhere.


Belgium is nice.
I've actually been to Belgium - was a major part of that trip to Europe I took all those years ago. In fact, the family of the ex-gf I went on the trip with still lives there, working on/at S.H.A.P.E. :smallsmile: Language would be something of a barrier, though. The last time I was there, I had my then-gf along to translate (French-speaker).


Move to New England? It's rich, you won't need a visa/passport, it's liberal, and very pretty in the autumn. Plus: some great cities, good universities (if you're looking for further learning, or have collegey kids), a very clean energy source in comparison to the rest of the USA, great schools, good healthcare, low obesity and crime rates...
I've briefly considered it, New Jersey at least. My best friend from high school and his wife (an ex of mine, actually) live near Atlantic City. Come to think of it, though, I'm not entirely sure I want to live within easy driving distance of them! :smalltongue:


Become one with Russia.
If I become one with Russia, does Russia become one with me?


*more than $0.02 worth of advice*
Yeah, I've put a lot of thought into the work-Visa issues. A friend of mine married a guy from Canada and it seemed to take years before she was legally eligible to work...which put a strain on their relationship since they were financially forced to live with his mother in the meantime. They eventually moved out and are doing great now that she can work, but I can't imagine the trouble I'd have if I moved somewhere and had no means of legally securing employment.


Ghost - what industry are you (and your girlfriend) looking to get into? That could help narrow it down.
My degree, and most recent employment, is in social work (I work in a residential treatment facility for teens). My schooling focused more on research than direct care, however. In the past, though, I've done everything from general labor, to manufacturing (door/counter-top factory), to working for a motel as a desk clerk/night auditor. Basically, I want to avoid telemarketing (or other work involving placing lots of calls) and any jobs where I'd have to handle food, but I'm keeping an open mind otherwise.

My girlfriend's degree is in photography, but she's mostly worked retail.


I'd suggest you move to MD...
The head office for the U.S. Census Bureau is in Maryland. Given my previous schooling and general interests, this is actually an option I've put some thought into.


Seattle
I like rain; hate snow. :smallwink: I've actually considered the Northwestern U.S. before, too. There's a graduate program at a school in Portland that's attractive to me though, even with this loan paid off, I'm not sure I'll be financially stable enough to go back to school. One of the things I promised myself a few years back is that, if I do go back to school, I won't be working full-time at the same time to make ends meet like I did in Colorado!

I'm not concerned about a 10% sales tax; I've had to pay up to 12% in the past and it's something like 8% where I'm living now. As for property values, I'm more like to rent than buy a home; at least at first.


People overexaggerate about the rain. But we do talk about the weather too much.

Then again, I supposedly live in the driest part of the UK, and we've had a few heavy downpours in the last week or so.
It didn't rain at all while I was visiting the U.K. It did snow a bit, though. :smalltongue:


As cool as it would be to have you close enough to hang out, I'd have to advise against the south. Cost of living is low, but so are most salaries. And the people tend to be zealous and closed-minded. I think you would hate living here even more than I do.

I'm a fan of the west coast. Property is more expensive, but the scenery is beautiful and the people are generally pleasant. I hear good things about New England too, particularly cultural aspects that appeal to me, but I have not yet had a chance to visit.
I've got a very good friend in Globe, Arizona, and some (emotionally distant) family in Phoenix, but I'm going to try and avoid the more conservative parts of the country if possible. The weather may be great, but I think I'd have issues grinding what's left of my teeth down to the gums in some parts of the country!

[darkblust]

Move to Canada!Unless you alreadylive here,then move to quebec!Its nice and peacefull in canada,and white with snow!Just be careful to not slip on the ice...

[LCR]

Umm... Have you ever seen, you know, a map of the world at all?

Yes, I have. What I meant, is that I live closer to London than I live to Munich, which would be in the same country. Within two or three hours, I can be in approximately five different countries, while two or three hours in the US sometimes aren't even enough to leave the state. So yeah, Europe is not smaller than America, but distances are. That's what I meant.

[charl]

Move to Canada!Unless you alreadylive here,then move to quebec!Its nice and peacefull in canada,and white with snow!Just be careful to not slip on the ice...

But it's full of French people. :smallsigh:


:smalltongue:

[Mauve Shirt]

The head office for the U.S. Census Bureau is in Maryland. Given my previous schooling and general interests, this is actually an option I've put some thought into.

Oh well if you want to work for the government it's great. :smalltongue:

[Supagoof]

Yes, I have. What I meant, is that I live closer to London than I live to Munich, which would be in the same country. Within two or three hours, I can be in approximately five different countries, while two or three hours in the US sometimes aren't even enough to leave the state. So yeah, Europe is not smaller than America, but distances are. That's what I meant.
It took me 18 hours to drive across Texas once.

And consider that if you cut Alaska in half - Texas would become the 3rd largest US state. People forget about Alaska too often....

Ghost_warlock - if you're in Iowa, then I'd suggest not moving north to MN. Sure, it's a great place to live, but the difference from IA to MN IMO isn't enough of a change.

From my travels - I was most impressed with Tennessee. Beautiful rolling landscape. The tri-city area has plenty to offer for dining and recreation, plus has a large conglimerate of playgrounders to hang around with (Hippie's, Penguins and Llama's - Oh My!). For a more open-air attitude, it's a good setting.

One thing I'd watch for with the move is the difference in cost of living. A loaf of bread in one area is not the same cost as a loaf of bread in another. Now that you've freed yourself from finacial burdens - don't dive right back into it. :smallwink:

My 3 scents.

[Alarra]

I love TN also, and would totally move there if Zeb's job wasn't here. =)

Granted, MD is nice too, although really really expensive, and not really very rural. Well, parts of it are, I suppose, but if you live in those parts and want to work for the gov't, then you're going to have to deal with a hellish commute.

[Player_Zero]

My girlfriend actually likes this idea. If only we could keep people from flooding our place everytime they drop anchor on our glass-dome ceiling!


Your girlfriend is the clever one.

Does she have any ideas of where to go?

[afroakuma]

Come to Canadia!

Seriously, any country whose national stereotype involves being exceedingly nice has to have its perks. :smallbiggrin:

Also donuts, coffee, Timbits, real maple syrup, public healthcare, good education system, bland ineffectual unintimidating government, good diplomatic relations and the (ex)tallest... thingy... in the world. (Really only fun the first time, though).

[darkblust]

Canada is french,yes,but only if you move to quebec,mostly.And everybody knows how to speak english here in canada.

[Keld Denar]

I like rain; hate snow. :smallwink: I've actually considered the Northwestern U.S. before, too. There's a graduate program at a school in Portland that's attractive to me though, even with this loan paid off, I'm not sure I'll be financially stable enough to go back to school. One of the things I promised myself a few years back is that, if I do go back to school, I won't be working full-time at the same time to make ends meet like I did in Colorado!

Portland is ok, but a little too full of yuppies for me. Everyone always says Seattle is full of em, but Portland is worse by all accounts I've heard. Take that for what you will. Really, anywhere on this side of the Cascades is gonna be relatively mild. I know in Seattle we got near record snowfall this year, which was like, 3 inches, so snow is not really a concern. If you ARE a fan of winter sports, Snoqualmie Pass and Steven's Pass are pretty awesome for skiing/snowboarding and only about 1-1.5 hours drive away. Thats the way I like my snow...I can visit it, but it doesn't visit me. Summers are pretty mild. This one's been a heat wave, but most summer days are in the 75-80 degree range. Most apartments won't have AC though, so when it does get really hot, its harder to hide from than in say...Texas.

Anyway...Sioux City, Iowa...ouch. My grandma lives there, so I've been there a few times. There ain't sheet there. My condolences to you, and best of luck escaping the midwest. As a former midwesterner myself (Michigan), I can tell you that things are WAY different on the coasts (and in my opinion better) having lived in both Boston and Seattle in the past year.

As far as moving, my suggestion to do it on the cheap is to take only as much as you can fit in your vehicle(s). The rest attempt to sell on craigslist, and if that fails donate to the Salvation Army. When you get to where you are going, assuming its still in America, hope on craigslist again and refurnish. If you don't mind being without a bit, you can shop around and find some REALLY good deals. I got a $1000 couch for $300 because the dude I bought it from was moving back to Cali. Don't buy anything from a furniture retailer if you can, because you will for sure pay way too much. If you really can't find what you want, check out some places like Cort that do furnishings for prefurnished apartments. They often sell their slightly loved leftovers at slightly discounted prices. Not as good a deal as craigslist, but still better than paying full price at a new furniture retailer.

[Recaiden]

I have next to no idea. Move to Texas! For teh lulz.

Why does everyone hate us?:smallfrown:

California is a very nice place, but most of it is very expensive to live in, so maybe not the best idea.
The Texas-New Mexico-Arizona-Oklahoma-Kansas area is actually a lot nicer than it sounds, at least in the cities.

[paddyfool]

Coming over to the UK, while you'd be very welcome from my point of view, would not be easy. With the increased flow of new immigrants from around the EU, the government's been making life harder for non-EU migrants to try and balance the books. The only way it could be swung would be if you were coming to study... but while our universities are one of the few things that'd be cheaper for you, you'd still have to take out a whopping great loan to enable this.

On the whole, I'd say the Portland plan sounds good. Not that I'm any expert, but I like what little I've seen of the West Coast (San Fran, Yosemite, Point Reyes, Tahoe) and everyone I've met from Portland has been both lovely and interesting (that said, we're talking about a sample of two, and they're both PhD student expats... probably not remotely representative).

[charl]

Coming over to the UK, while you'd be very welcome from my point of view, would not be easy. With the increased flow of new immigrants from around the EU, the government's been making life harder for non-EU migrants to try and balance the books. The only way it could be swung would be if you were coming to study... but while our universities are one of the few things that'd be cheaper for you, you'd still have to take out a whopping great loan to enable this.

Used to be that exchange students to Sweden would get free education, just like us natives, but that changed recently so now the foreign students are the only ones who have to pay to go to school. C'est la vie.

[Lupy]

Florida? Most if it isn't culturally part of the South (because all you New Yoikahs are taking over our chunk of the country! :smalltongue: ), it's warm and humid, there are plenty of cities to choose from, beaches, lower cost of living than Washington...

I've never lived there but it sounds like a place you ought to consider.

[Kaelaroth]

I've briefly considered it, New Jersey at least. My best friend from high school and his wife (an ex of mine, actually) live near Atlantic City. Come to think of it, though, I'm not entirely sure I want to live within easy driving distance of them! :smalltongue:

Then consider Vermont? It's further away from Atlantic City than anywhere else in New Jersey, is semi-rural, and has most of the benefits of New England while being slightly more.. nature-y?

[Gorgondantess]

Move to somewhere in America. Trust me, it's better that way. I'd advise somewhere more western- Oregon, Washington (Seattle is pretty much perfect, if you can stand the rain), Arizona if you're ok with hot summers. Stay away from California. Anywhere in New England is a good bet too, though some of the places have bad weather and/or are really expensive.
If you want somewhere cheap and actually pretty nice, Michigan. It's got terrible summers and in some areas nasty biting bugs, but literal mansions there sell for cheaper than your average Californian home. It's also not too bad, once you get used to it.

[Seonor]

My degree, and most recent employment, is in social work (I work in a residential treatment facility for teens). My schooling focused more on research than direct care, however. In the past, though, I've done everything from general labor, to manufacturing (door/counter-top factory), to working for a motel as a desk clerk/night auditor. Basically, I want to avoid telemarketing (or other work involving placing lots of calls) and any jobs where I'd have to handle food, but I'm keeping an open mind otherwise.



The UK is currently trying to improve their youth welfare programms and is adverticing in german univercitys to hire anyone with a good training in that field. As far as I can remember (a friend told me this last week) they help with everything if you promise to stay at least two years. I don't know if this offer includes americans, but you could at least send in an application to see if they will take you. The website is here (http://www.work-in-the-uk.com/).

[RabbitHoleLost]

Now, honestly, I'm going to suggest Oklahoma just because its where Twobi and I live
I'm really quite impartial towards its.

BUT, there's a lot of rural space, along with a lot of suburban areas (not anything Urban by most peoples standards, though I guess Tulsa counts as a city because of population), the cost of living is much lower than up north, and ESPECIALLY New England, where cost of living is UNBELIEVABLY high.
We have cold winters and hot summers, though not nearly as cold as it gets up north or as hot as it is below the equator.
And the cultural issues with religion and other such things are actually not nearly as bad as people would lead you to believe.

Also, the UK and Canada are a bitch to immigrate to.

[Keld Denar]

If you want somewhere cheap and actually pretty nice, Michigan. It's got terrible summers and in some areas nasty biting bugs, but literal mansions there sell for cheaper than your average Californian home. It's also not too bad, once you get used to it.

Sure, you can get a $1/2 million home for $100,000, but what good is that if you can't get a job to pay even that much? Michigan's economy is TANKED. Their unemployment is around 15% atm, nearly 5% higher than any other state in the union. There is a reason real estate is dirt cheap there and that reason is mass exodus! If you were looking to invest in the long term, buying homes in Michigan might be worthwhile, but don't do it if you are looking for gainful employment. I know a girl from college with a freakin MBA who works as a secretary for ~$25,000 a year just to keep food on the table. Good thing she doesn't have family to support as well...

[Erothayce]

Come to the paradise known as California. I love this place so much it's criminal. Living in Sacramento is very convenient seeing as how it's kinda in the middle of Northern California so cool things to do aren't far away. Keep in mind the paradise part is only about Northern California as I consider Southern California to be evil. But honestly Northern California is amazing. We don't really get "weather". It gets kinda hot, kinda cold, kinda rainy but generally it's amazing which is great for the outdoorsy type.

[mangosta71]

Oh well if you want to work for the government it's great. :smalltongue:

I can think of another reason it would be great. :smallredface:

[Felixaar]

Ghosty, it's pretty cold here in the southern part of Australia, but if you go a bit further north it gets decent and it gets really hot up top. Basically the top fifty percent is v. humid in summer and about 20 degrees celsius during the day in winter, but down here it's lucky to get to that in summer. All though for about a week or so it gets up to 30 or even 40 for a few days in a row.

Oh, and as for furniture, I would definitely reccomend getting new stuff when you come here. Having it shipped with be a massive hassle and expensive.

[ghost_warlock]

Oh well if you want to work for the government it's great. :smalltongue:

Who wouldn't want a cushy government job with the associated benefits? :smalltongue: Although, to be honest, I'm more interested in getting paid for doing sociological research than I am in being a government employee. It just so happens that the gov't is one of the few agencies that has the budget to pay full-time researchers.


Move to Tennessee
Hm. There's an option I hadn't considered at all...will look more into it. :smallsmile:


Your girlfriend is the clever one.

Does she have any ideas of where to go?

When I asked, she said "I dunno" and shrugged sort of half-heartedly.

Upon further interrogation, she mostly seems to simply prefer someplace perhaps a bit warmer. She vetos anywhere in Nebraska, though, saying "I've already lived there. I'm tired of seeing Huskers stuff."


If you ARE a fan of winter sports, Snoqualmie Pass and Steven's Pass are pretty awesome for skiing/snowboarding and only about 1-1.5 hours drive away. Thats the way I like my snow...I can visit it, but it doesn't visit me. Summers are pretty mild. This one's been a heat wave, but most summer days are in the 75-80 degree range. Most apartments won't have AC though, so when it does get really hot, its harder to hide from than in say...Texas.
Sounding better and better. :smallsmile: I've only been snowboarding once and I'd love to give it another go.


Anyway...Sioux City, Iowa...ouch. My grandma lives there, so I've been there a few times. There ain't sheet there. My condolences to you, and best of luck escaping the midwest. As a former midwesterner myself (Michigan), I can tell you that things are WAY different on the coasts (and in my opinion better) having lived in both Boston and Seattle in the past year.
Yeah, Sioux City is a fairly nondescript city with little to offer in the way of entertainment or culture. We have an art museum that takes about 30 minutes to view the entire collection and a couple Lewis & Clark historical sites, but that's about it. The food here is, in comparison to where else I've lived/stayed, boring. It breaks my heart that, more often than not, when I go out to eat I end up at a Perkins. I do have to admit that the local broasted chicken place, Sneaky's, is awesome...but I could live without it.


As far as moving, my suggestion to do it on the cheap is to take only as much as you can fit in your vehicle(s). The rest attempt to sell on craigslist, and if that fails donate to the Salvation Army. When you get to where you are going, assuming its still in America, hope on craigslist again and refurnish. If you don't mind being without a bit, you can shop around and find some REALLY good deals. I got a $1000 couch for $300 because the dude I bought it from was moving back to Cali. Don't buy anything from a furniture retailer if you can, because you will for sure pay way too much. If you really can't find what you want, check out some places like Cort that do furnishings for prefurnished apartments. They often sell their slightly loved leftovers at slightly discounted prices. Not as good a deal as craigslist, but still better than paying full price at a new furniture retailer.
Unfortunately, I'll likely end up having to rent a U-haul. My girlfriend bought a washer and dryer when we moved into the duplex we're currently living (last fall) and she recently bought a $1000 bed, too. She's unwilling to part with any of these.


Why does everyone hate us?:smallfrown:
I don't hate Texas...I've just known too many Spaniards Texans. :smallwink:


Florida? Most if it isn't culturally part of the South (because all you New Yoikahs are taking over our chunk of the country! :smalltongue: ), it's warm and humid, there are plenty of cities to choose from, beaches, lower cost of living than Washington...

I've never lived there but it sounds like a place you ought to consider.
I've spent a little time in Florida...not much though. The closest thing I have to a RL nemesis is stationed in Florida...but it's a big place and I likely wouldn't tell him I'm moving there even if I did. :smalltongue: All things considered, though, Florida (and California) seem to be a bit...high-profile (?) for my gf and I.


Then consider Vermont? It's further away from Atlantic City than anywhere else in New Jersey, is semi-rural, and has most of the benefits of New England while being slightly more.. nature-y?
An grad school I considered is in Vermont; seemed like a pretty campus. Hm...


Move to somewhere in America. Trust me, it's better that way. I'd advise somewhere more western- Oregon, Washington (Seattle is pretty much perfect, if you can stand the rain), Arizona if you're ok with hot summers. Stay away from California. Anywhere in New England is a good bet too, though some of the places have bad weather and/or are really expensive.
If you want somewhere cheap and actually pretty nice, Michigan. It's got terrible summers and in some areas nasty biting bugs, but literal mansions there sell for cheaper than your average Californian home. It's also not too bad, once you get used to it.
"Go West Young Man" is something that's been echoing around in my head for years. :smallsmile: Despite a strong desire to be closer to a good friend currently living there, Arizona is probably a bit too Red for my tastes...and arid. Nice to visit, but...


The UK is currently trying to improve their youth welfare programms and is adverticing in german univercitys to hire anyone with a good training in that field. As far as I can remember (a friend told me this last week) they help with everything if you promise to stay at least two years. I don't know if this offer includes americans, but you could at least send in an application to see if they will take you. The website is here (http://www.work-in-the-uk.com/).
Will look into it, thanks! :smallsmile:


Now, honestly, I'm going to suggest Oklahoma just because its where Twobi and I live
I'm really quite impartial towards its.
:smallwink:


BUT, there's a lot of rural space, along with a lot of suburban areas (not anything Urban by most peoples standards, though I guess Tulsa counts as a city because of population), the cost of living is much lower than up north, and ESPECIALLY New England, where cost of living is UNBELIEVABLY high.
We have cold winters and hot summers, though not nearly as cold as it gets up north or as hot as it is below the equator.
And the cultural issues with religion and other such things are actually not nearly as bad as people would lead you to believe.
Overall, Oklahoma sounds a lot like where I'm living now, to be honest. Although, Tulsa is probably a bit busier and has more to offer in terms of recreation.


Also, the UK and Canada are a bitch to immigrate to.
Judging from a couple horror stories I've heard, yeah... :smallfrown:


Ghosty, it's pretty cold here in the southern part of Australia, but if you go a bit further north it gets decent and it gets really hot up top. Basically the top fifty percent is v. humid in summer and about 20 degrees celsius during the day in winter, but down here it's lucky to get to that in summer. All though for about a week or so it gets up to 30 or even 40 for a few days in a row.
Temperature is probably a big concern, then. My girlfriend claims to have difficulty sleeping if it's less than about 26o C in the bedroom...which means that our heating bill there would likely get ridiculous.


Oh, and as for furniture, I would definitely reccomend getting new stuff when you come here. Having it shipped with be a massive hassle and expensive.
Unfortunately, again, I probably won't have much choice in the matter. :smallfrown: If it was up to me, I'd probably be only packing some gaming books, my computer, a few changes of clothes, and whatever else I could fit into a backpack and then call it good!

[Player_Zero]

When I asked, she said "I dunno" and shrugged sort of half-heartedly.

Upon further interrogation, she mostly seems to simply prefer someplace perhaps a bit warmer. She vetos anywhere in Nebraska, though, saying "I've already lived there. I'm tired of seeing Huskers stuff."


Ah ha! See, it doesn't matter where you move to as long as you can have an adventure there.

Where sounds fun?

And afterall, whatever you decide as long as you have no regrets it'll all be fine.

[afroakuma]

Not to mention, Sioux City Airport SUX. :smallamused:

[paddyfool]

Ghosty, it's pretty cold here in the southern part of Australia, but if you go a bit further north it gets decent and it gets really hot up top. Basically the top fifty percent is v. humid in summer and about 20 degrees celsius during the day in winter, but down here it's lucky to get to that in summer. All though for about a week or so it gets up to 30 or even 40 for a few days in a row.


Heh. I remember well that, on a trip to Antartica with a group of (mostly) Australians, many of them, being from Brisbane and Sydney, didn't have that much cold tolerance. One, however, was perfectly happy to swan about in a t-shirt (in most weather). He was from Tasmania.

[Keld Denar]

Yeah, Sioux City is a fairly nondescript city with little to offer in the way of entertainment or culture. <snip> It breaks my heart that, more often than not, when I go out to eat I end up at a Perkins.
If it makes you feel any better...I've eaten at that Perkin's too...the one on the other side of the old stockyard train station, right?


Unfortunately, I'll likely end up having to rent a U-haul. My girlfriend bought a washer and dryer when we moved into the duplex we're currently living (last fall) and she recently bought a $1000 bed, too. She's unwilling to part with any of these.

Seriously, if you start ahead of time, you can probably sell both for 60% or more. I ended up DONATING my $1000 bed to the salvation army because I sat down and looked at the difference in gas mileage between my car and a u-haul, the distance I was going, and the cost of gasoline, and it would have been like $1100 MORE to rent the u-haul. Thats not even including the actual cost of the u-haul OR the fact that u-haul gas mileage drops even more going over the Rockys and the Cascades. I made it up to myself by spending the money I saved GIVING my matress away buying an even better one. Super Pillowtop > Pillowtop!

If you could sell your bed and washer/dryer for ~$500 each, you'll save yourself a ton of money if you are moving anywhere over about 1000 miles. These numbers aren't exact, but they aren't hard to crunch. Whatever you do, don't go with those u-pack storage units like PODS. The rental rates aren't very bad, but they wanted like $4000 to truck the loaded container from KC, MO to Seattle. WTF?

Talk to her. Tell her not to get too attached to furniture. Its just stuff. I had a huge overstuffed chair that I was absolutely in LOVE with, that I had to leave behind in KC. I sold it to a friend though, and got a new one. I don't even think about it any more. It would have cost 1/2 again the value of the chair to move it. It just wasn't viable.

[mangosta71]

"Not willing to part with furniture" kinda gives me the impression that she's not very excited about the prospect of moving and is being nonconfrontational about it.

[Bonecrusher Doc]

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2009/top100/

[KerfuffleMach2]

Seriously, if you start ahead of time, you can probably sell both for 60% or more. I ended up DONATING my $1000 bed to the salvation army because I sat down and looked at the difference in gas mileage between my car and a u-haul, the distance I was going, and the cost of gasoline, and it would have been like $1100 MORE to rent the u-haul. Thats not even including the actual cost of the u-haul OR the fact that u-haul gas mileage drops even more going over the Rockys and the Cascades. I made it up to myself by spending the money I saved GIVING my matress away buying an even better one. Super Pillowtop > Pillowtop!

Yeah, cross-country U-Haul rentals can get expensive. I would know. I work for them.

Really depends on where you're going, though. I live just north of Detroit, and right now, the cost of the biggest truck from here to Atlanta is about $1300. Same truck, from Atlanta to here, is about $500. Just because everybody is moving out of state, so we don't have many trucks here right now.

Anywho, about Michigan economy. Slowly working its way back. Google recently opened an office in the Detroit area. They're building a special effects studio a little ways south of Detroit. Actually, the movie industry is slowly starting to put some roots down here, cause the state is giving them huge tax breaks right now. Also, GM is opening a factory to make batteries for the electric cars they're gonna be selling.

And yeah, housing is crazy cheap right now.

Recommendation. Look into foreclosed homes. They tend to be pretty cheap anywhere.

[Mr.Moron]

MA isn't terrible I guess. I feel like giving it a vote, just because everyone else seems to be plugging their home territory. Honestly though, I can't think of too much to rave about. Call this like 1/2 an endorsement or maybe 7/16ths of one.

[Hell Puppi]

All of Arizona is not red. Trust me, I've driven across most of it many many times. :smalltongue:

Sedona is the red rocks place and it's actually very pretty. Most of northern Arizona is very beautiful and doesn't get anywhere near as blistering hot as mid/southern. The only problem is the job market in (most) of the northern areas isn't that great. I really want to try and move up north once I finish my degree and get a job lined up.
Phoenix isn't bad. If you want to get a job fast that's probably the place. Unfortunately it's also very hot and very crowded (relatively). However it's easy to hit the interstate from Phoenix and take min-vacations up north. Play in the snow, go visit the mining towns in Jerome, camping, that kind of thing. It's also got an astonishing variety of foods. Rent is a bit high, but fair.
Tucson isn't bad either. It gets hot but not blistering like Phoenix and it's got two good-sized mountains that offer amazing trails and some snow in the winter. It's also large enough to where jobs are fairly easy to come by and there's plenty to eat. Not quite as much as Phoenix but not bad by any stretch. The housing market is recovering but you can find places pretty cheap. Rent isn't bad and there's plenty of complexes to choose from that are dying for more renters (most moved out when housing prices dropped).
Phoenix and Tucson both have good colleges and community colleges, if that's a consideration. There's also NAU up north (in Flagstaff, I believe).

Yeah, that's Arizona in a nutshell. Kinda.

[ghost_warlock]

Ah ha! See, it doesn't matter where you move to as long as you can have an adventure there.
That's pretty much the impression I get from her; she doesn't care so long as it's not Nebraska. :smallsmile:


Where sounds fun?

And afterall, whatever you decide as long as you have no regrets it'll all be fine.
Compared to where we are, just about anywhere offers more fun. :smallfrown:


Not to mention, Sioux City Airport SUX. :smallamused:
:smalltongue:

On the serious side, though, I have absolutely no intention of flying out of SUX. If a flight was involved, I'd probably just make the trip to Omaha and go from there.


Heh. I remember well that, on a trip to Antartica with a group of (mostly) Australians, many of them, being from Brisbane and Sydney, didn't have that much cold tolerance. One, however, was perfectly happy to swan about in a t-shirt (in most weather). He was from Tasmania.
Brrrr. I've seen people doing that sort of thing and it makes me shiver. I'm one of those people that's virtually paralyzed by cold. It's bizarre that I've survived as many Iowa/Colorado winters as I have; I can't imagine enjoying much colder temperatures!


If it makes you feel any better...I've eaten at that Perkin's too...the one on the other side of the old stockyard train station, right?
We typically eat at the one out by Menards (better service), but the one you're talking about (on Gordon drive) was our old hangout from when we were going to college. :smallsmile:


Seriously, if you start ahead of time, you can probably sell both for 60% or more. I ended up DONATING my $1000 bed to the salvation army because I sat down and looked at the difference in gas mileage between my car and a u-haul, the distance I was going, and the cost of gasoline, and it would have been like $1100 MORE to rent the u-haul. Thats not even including the actual cost of the u-haul OR the fact that u-haul gas mileage drops even more going over the Rockys and the Cascades. I made it up to myself by spending the money I saved GIVING my matress away buying an even better one. Super Pillowtop > Pillowtop!

If you could sell your bed and washer/dryer for ~$500 each, you'll save yourself a ton of money if you are moving anywhere over about 1000 miles. These numbers aren't exact, but they aren't hard to crunch. Whatever you do, don't go with those u-pack storage units like PODS. The rental rates aren't very bad, but they wanted like $4000 to truck the loaded container from KC, MO to Seattle. WTF?

Talk to her. Tell her not to get too attached to furniture. Its just stuff. I had a huge overstuffed chair that I was absolutely in LOVE with, that I had to leave behind in KC. I sold it to a friend though, and got a new one. I don't even think about it any more. It would have cost 1/2 again the value of the chair to move it. It just wasn't viable.
Yeah, we'll definitely be discussing all of this. It'll be at least 15-20 months before we even start packing so time is on our side, here. For the record, though, the mattress we're talking about hasn't even arrived at our place yet; that's how recently she ordered it.

We've been talking about moving for years, now, the notable difference here is that I'm beginning to see light at the end of the debt-tunnel and can start putting idle speculation into action.


"Not willing to part with furniture" kinda gives me the impression that she's not very excited about the prospect of moving and is being nonconfrontational about it.
Eh, she's just the type to get hung up over junk. The dresser she has is literally falling apart but she refused to part with it; extremely frustrating considering all the splinters I got from it the last time we moved. :smallmad:

I know that she does want to get out of Iowa because we've talked about it a few times and she's said as much.


http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2009/top100/
Hm. Interesting.

I'll admit to being a bit skeptical of those lists, if only because one of them includes Storm Lake, Iowa! :smalltongue:

Still, another resource to consider when making a decision, thanks! :smallsmile:


Yeah, cross-country U-Haul rentals can get expensive. I would know. I work for them.

Really depends on where you're going, though. I live just north of Detroit, and right now, the cost of the biggest truck from here to Atlanta is about $1300. Same truck, from Atlanta to here, is about $500. Just because everybody is moving out of state, so we don't have many trucks here right now.
Yeah, we'll be discussing our options for moving our junk more when we've decided where we'll be going. I'd like to move as little as possible but I don't really see her giving up some of her stuff. All of my furniture is easily-replacable; mostly that build-it-yourself particle board crap you can get at Wal*Mart for $20-50.


Anywho, about Michigan economy. Slowly working its way back. Google recently opened an office in the Detroit area. They're building a special effects studio a little ways south of Detroit. Actually, the movie industry is slowly starting to put some roots down here, cause the state is giving them huge tax breaks right now. Also, GM is opening a factory to make batteries for the electric cars they're gonna be selling.

And yeah, housing is crazy cheap right now.

Recommendation. Look into foreclosed homes. They tend to be pretty cheap anywhere.
Well, honestly, I'm not really planning to buy a house any time soon. We'll likely be renting, instead. Rental prices should reflect the positive changes in the housing market, but they appeal to slightly different markets so it isn't always the case.

Things may change later, but I'm really not looking to invest in property at the present.


All of Arizona is not red. Trust me, I've driven across most of it many many times. :smalltongue:
Well, I meant it's Red...as opposed to Blue. The scenery doesn't bother me, having lived in a high-mountain desert for four years. The political climate is a different concern, however. :smallwink:


Sedona is the red rocks place and it's actually very pretty. Most of northern Arizona is very beautiful and doesn't get anywhere near as blistering hot as mid/southern. The only problem is the job market in (most) of the northern areas isn't that great. I really want to try and move up north once I finish my degree and get a job lined up.
Phoenix isn't bad. If you want to get a job fast that's probably the place. Unfortunately it's also very hot and very crowded (relatively). However it's easy to hit the interstate from Phoenix and take min-vacations up north. Play in the snow, go visit the mining towns in Jerome, camping, that kind of thing. It's also got an astonishing variety of foods. Rent is a bit high, but fair.
Tucson isn't bad either. It gets hot but not blistering like Phoenix and it's got two good-sized mountains that offer amazing trails and some snow in the winter. It's also large enough to where jobs are fairly easy to come by and there's plenty to eat. Not quite as much as Phoenix but not bad by any stretch. The housing market is recovering but you can find places pretty cheap. Rent isn't bad and there's plenty of complexes to choose from that are dying for more renters (most moved out when housing prices dropped).
Phoenix and Tucson both have good colleges and community colleges, if that's a consideration. There's also NAU up north (in Flagstaff, I believe).

Yeah, that's Arizona in a nutshell. Kinda.
I'm much more outdoors-y than my gf and I'd love to go on a hiking/camping trip out there. :smallsmile: The variety of foods doesn't surprise me at all; the town in Southern Colorado I lived in had a good variety, too. Location, location, location. :smallwink:

I'm not sure if the availability of schools would be a concern. I'd like to go back to school someday, but it'll depend on a lot of factors (like deciding what the heck I want to study in the first place :smalltongue:).

[Alteran]

Well, I meant it's Red...as opposed to Blue. The scenery doesn't bother me, having lived in a high-mountain desert for four years. The political climate is a different concern, however. :smallwink:


This is always hell of confusing for me, as a Canadian. Our two largest political parties also use red and blue as their colours, but it's switched around. Our more liberal party (the Liberal Party) is red, and our more conservative party (the Conservative Party) is blue. I only realized that America had it the other way around about two years ago. :smalltongue:

Anyhow, I will indeed vouch for Canada. Unfortunately, if you despise the cold it won't be the best place for you. It's not an icy wasteland like some people tend to think, but even in Toronto we regularly get down to -10 celsius (14 in your crazy fahrenheit). A cold winter day is more like -20 celsius, or -4 fahrenheit. I don't know if you'd consider that cold or not, I guess it depends what you're used to. This is also in Toronto, as I said, which is pretty far south for Canada. Most of Canada will be colder in the winter, but unless you go very far north you'll still get warm to very warm summers. Personally I don't love the cold winters (not a cold person), but I deal with it. One gets used to it, I suppose, and I'm sure it's warmer than some parts of the US.

It sounds like you've heard some scary stories about immigration to Canada, and I'm afraid I can't counter those. I have absolutely no experience with immigration, and I don't have any second-hand stories to share either. I can just tell you that I love the place. If immigration is a possibility, I would suggest that you seriously consider Canada. For what it's worth, Toronto seems to have a pretty good concentration of playgrounders. :smallwink:

You also mentioned liking the wilderness and camping and whatnot. Canada is fantastic for that. Using the example of Toronto, driving an hour or so (I think? I don't actually drive) north will get you to pretty solid wilderness-y areas. Farther up it gets better/more rural, and Algonquin Park is amazing. At the closest point it's probably around 3 or 4 hours from Toronto? I guess? I've never driven there directly from home.

There wouldn't be any huge culture shock, I imagine. As much as Canadians will deny it, I think we're really quite similar to the US. More similar to the US than any other country, at least. There is no language issue if you're not in Quebec, and you can keep calling your money dollars.

Also, you might care to look over this list (http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/04/0428_best_places_to_live/1.htm).

[Quincunx]

"Not willing to part with furniture" kinda gives me the impression that she's not very excited about the prospect of moving and is being nonconfrontational about it.

Nah, ya just don't realize how much all your precious possessions weigh until ya try to haul 'em by hand. The symbolism of an object drops right quick once it grows too heavy for you to move alone. Beds are, unfortunately, hella symbolic, so ghost_warlock can't get out of "helping to" carry that one, but the splinter factory dresser is all hers.

[mangosta71]

Getting the story second-hand and piecemeal makes it more difficult to get a clear picture. So, she wants out of that place, and isn't particular about where you go. Which means your criteria are all that needs to be considered in this discussion.

These look like the things that are most important to you:
You want a place that at least tends toward blue.
You want a place that's warm.

The difficulty here is that the only place that springs to my mind from those two points is southern California, and it's not exactly known for the outdoorsy type stuff that you enjoy. Most of the places that are warm year-round lean toward the red. However, at the rate that some areas are converting, a year or two down the road might give you more options that you would find acceptable.

[Alarra]

The problem with Southern CA is that the cost of living is crazy high, and it's mostly very urban, which he was not too keen on.

[paddyfool]

This is always hell of confusing for me, as a Canadian. Our two largest political parties also use red and blue as their colours, but it's switched around. Our more liberal party (the Liberal Party) is red, and our more conservative party (the Conservative Party) is blue. I only realized that America had it the other way around about two years ago. :smalltongue:


Canada is in line with most of the western world in this regard. I think what happened in America is that the two parties traded places somehow after Roosevelt took the Democrats left back in the 1930s. However, this is based on a very inexpert outside view of their history, so I might well be misinformed.

[Moff Chumley]

I cast my vote for the Bay Area. There are some pretty affordable apartments in San Francisco, and if you're looking for something less urban, there's Marin. it's expensive, sure, but perhaps one of the most beautiful places on earth. :smallbiggrin:

Oregon, especially the Ashland area, is gorgeous as well.

[Boo]

Also, the UK and Canada are a bitch to immigrate to.

T'is true. A friend of mine immigrated from CA... or Washington... America. They've been in Powell River longer than I have, and are still considered "visitor status".

Though I do hope you move to Vancouver (or Washington). Then I could, y'know, visit other Playgrounders. And their girlfriends. Most importantly: their cat.

Yep. BC is probably the warmest part of Canada, so if you're going to move anywhere Canadian, move there. Though it's one of the more expensive places here (Toronto might be worse). At least the exchange rate is in your favour.

If you stay in America... hmm... Move in with Trog. If I ever visit Toronto, I could probably visit you both then. :smalltongue: Only a... ten? Twelve hour drive from the city?

[Cyrion]

St. George Island, Alaska.

I don't know what else it has to recommend it, but it has the western-most zip code in the US (99591) which I always use for those pesky sales questions. If my input has had any effect, it's probably retail heaven by now.

[Keld Denar]

western-most zip code in the US (99591)

Pshhh, I work at 99734 which means I work 143 zip codes past the end of the world! WEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Felixaar]

26 Celsius? Wow. Yeah, that would be a problem then, almost anywhere in Aus.

[THAC0]

St. George Island, Alaska.

I don't know what else it has to recommend it

Nothing, pretty much. Literally. ;)

[ghost_warlock]

This is always hell of confusing for me, as a Canadian. Our two largest political parties also use red and blue as their colours, but it's switched around. Our more liberal party (the Liberal Party) is red, and our more conservative party (the Conservative Party) is blue. I only realized that America had it the other way around about two years ago. :smalltongue:
Yeah, they switch roles a while back. But...we should probably shy away from this topic. :smallwink:


Anyhow, I will indeed vouch for Canada. Unfortunately, if you despise the cold it won't be the best place for you. It's not an icy wasteland like some people tend to think, but even in Toronto we regularly get down to -10 celsius (14 in your crazy fahrenheit). A cold winter day is more like -20 celsius, or -4 fahrenheit. I don't know if you'd consider that cold or not, I guess it depends what you're used to. This is also in Toronto, as I said, which is pretty far south for Canada. Most of Canada will be colder in the winter, but unless you go very far north you'll still get warm to very warm summers. Personally I don't love the cold winters (not a cold person), but I deal with it. One gets used to it, I suppose, and I'm sure it's warmer than some parts of the US.
Heh, I like Fahrenheit. I feel the big numbers do a more satisfying job of representing higher temperatures. The negatives in Celcius don't really do anything for me other than reinforce how bloody cold it is! :smalltongue:


It sounds like you've heard some scary stories about immigration to Canada, and I'm afraid I can't counter those. I have absolutely no experience with immigration, and I don't have any second-hand stories to share either. I can just tell you that I love the place. If immigration is a possibility, I would suggest that you seriously consider Canada. For what it's worth, Toronto seems to have a pretty good concentration of playgrounders. :smallwink:

You also mentioned liking the wilderness and camping and whatnot. Canada is fantastic for that. Using the example of Toronto, driving an hour or so (I think? I don't actually drive) north will get you to pretty solid wilderness-y areas. Farther up it gets better/more rural, and Algonquin Park is amazing. At the closest point it's probably around 3 or 4 hours from Toronto? I guess? I've never driven there directly from home.

There wouldn't be any huge culture shock, I imagine. As much as Canadians will deny it, I think we're really quite similar to the US. More similar to the US than any other country, at least. There is no language issue if you're not in Quebec, and you can keep calling your money dollars.
Yeah, it doesn't sound like culture shock would be too big of an issue. Still, I had a bit of one back when I moved from Iowa to Colorado. But that was mostly due to the greater diversity of people and cultural dynamics of the place I moved to. South-Central Colorado seems to be a haven for a bunch of quite different people!


Also, you might care to look over this list (http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/04/0428_best_places_to_live/1.htm).
There's some nice pictures, I suppose...if you're into cityscapes. Some aren't too bad; I kinda like the picture of Wellington, New Zealand. Also got a giggle out of Hamburg, Germany; can just about imagine what my cousin would say if I moved there (bit of an inside joke that probably wouldn't survive an explanation).


Nah, ya just don't realize how much all your precious possessions weigh until ya try to haul 'em by hand. The symbolism of an object drops right quick once it grows too heavy for you to move alone. Beds are, unfortunately, hella symbolic, so ghost_warlock can't get out of "helping to" carry that one, but the splinter factory dresser is all hers.
Well, she's moved a couple times but seems to forget how much the stuff weighs between moves. :smalltongue: That, and she always has other people to help with the heavy stuff.

Part of the issue with the dresser is that it's her mom's and she can't get rid of it unless she gives it back to her mom. And, of course, her mom lives 3-1/2 hours away...


Getting the story second-hand and piecemeal makes it more difficult to get a clear picture. So, she wants out of that place, and isn't particular about where you go. Which means your criteria are all that needs to be considered in this discussion.
Eh, that's just how she is. She has a higher-than-normal proportion of indecisiveness and "don't give a damn." :smallwink: She'll tell me what she absolutely doesn't like, but getting her to give any suggestions otherwise is like pulling teeth.


These look like the things that are most important to you:
You want a place that at least tends toward blue.
You want a place that's warm.

The difficulty here is that the only place that springs to my mind from those two points is southern California, and it's not exactly known for the outdoorsy type stuff that you enjoy. Most of the places that are warm year-round lean toward the red. However, at the rate that some areas are converting, a year or two down the road might give you more options that you would find acceptable.

The problem with Southern CA is that the cost of living is crazy high, and it's mostly very urban, which he was not too keen on.
Yeah, I'm thinking I'll stay away from SoCal. Nice place to visit/tour, but I don't think I want to live there.


I cast my vote for the Bay Area. There are some pretty affordable apartments in San Francisco, and if you're looking for something less urban, there's Marin. it's expensive, sure, but perhaps one of the most beautiful places on earth. :smallbiggrin:

Oregon, especially the Ashland area, is gorgeous as well.
Yeah, the Northwestern U.S. seems to be a pretty likeable area. :smallsmile:


T'is true. A friend of mine immigrated from CA... or Washington... America. They've been in Powell River longer than I have, and are still considered "visitor status".

Though I do hope you move to Vancouver (or Washington). Then I could, y'know, visit other Playgrounders. And their girlfriends. Most importantly: their cat.

Yep. BC is probably the warmest part of Canada, so if you're going to move anywhere Canadian, move there. Though it's one of the more expensive places here (Toronto might be worse). At least the exchange rate is in your favour.

If you stay in America... hmm... Move in with Trog. If I ever visit Toronto, I could probably visit you both then. :smalltongue: Only a... ten? Twelve hour drive from the city?
Wouldn't it be neato if a bunch of us Playgrounders moved to the same place and bought out an entire apartment complex? Or founded a commune of some sort? :smallbiggrin:


26 Celsius? Wow. Yeah, that would be a problem then, almost anywhere in Aus.
Well, even around here we have a space heater in our bedroom that runs pretty much year round. It's caused some issues with my cousin, who prefers it much cooler. Where we're living now, the thermostat is right outside our bedroom so heat dissipating out of our room kicks on the air conditioner. The space heater can just outpace the AC so it stays warm in our bedroom but everywhere else in the place gets pretty chilly. :smallfrown:

[Alarra]

Wouldn't it be neato if a bunch of us Playgrounders moved to the same place and bought out an entire apartment complex? Or founded a commune of some sort? :smallbiggrin:
Zeb and I, and others, have discussed this many times. Someday....someday... :smallsmile:

[Moff Chumley]

YES The game, biznitch

[Trog]

Trog thinks you should move a little to the left...

A little more... little more... GOOD! Good. *GW is now standing on a large "X" painted on a shady spot on the floor*

You stay right here. Yup. That's the spot to be.

*looks up then quickly looks back down again, then smiles a huge smile whilst clutching his hat. Twiddles fingers in a nervous goodbye gesture and then runs away as fast as he can*

[Keld Denar]

Gosh Trog, when I first started reading that, I thought about that guy who killed his wife at the Grand Canyon with a camera.

Back up just a little bit. I still can't get you in...little more. Ok, just a little more. Almost...

...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
*splat*

[Felixaar]

Zeb and I, and others, have discussed this many times. Someday....someday... :smallsmile:

I've always thought of it as more of an island, but I guess an apartment block would be a start :smallamused:

[Xyk]

Australia. Really, you only have to beat off the snakes/spiders/jellyfish/wombats 2-3 times a day.

On a serious note: I have next to no idea. Move to Texas! For teh lulz.

Move to Texas! Well, Austin is good, the rest is pretty much a $%^&hole. Austin is the Live Music Capitol of the World*, a very liberal setting, a great place to raise kids** or a great place for partying with a ridiculous variety of clubs and live music***.

Cons: Expensive housing, especially downtown.

*: Self proclaimed, but it's totally true.
**: In the suburban areas
***: Downtown.

[Recaiden]

Move to Texas! Well, Austin is good, the rest is pretty much a $%^&hole. Austin is the Live Music Capitol of the World*, a very liberal setting, a great place to raise kids** or a great place for partying with a ridiculous variety of clubs and live music***.

Cons: Expensive housing, especially downtown.

*: Self proclaimed, but it's totally true.
**: In the suburban areas
***: Downtown.

Hey! Except for the live music, Dallas-Fort Worth has all of that. and cheaper housing, I think.