Linear Guild Speculation - Spoilers

[Quinton250]

I apologize if this theory has been brought forward before, or if something I am not remembering in the comic has proven this wrong.


Itseems to me, everyone has decided that the Linear Guild has taken a head start in advancing to Girard's Gate. They left during the battle of Azure City, which at this point is many months ago, and Team Evil nor the OOTS have followed suit quite yet. Many people expect the Linear Guild to be waiting for the OOTS, or in the process of trying to control the gate.


But is this a realistic course of action? Nale knows that the OOTS is heading to Girard's gate next, and likely knows that this is because Xykon is bound by fate to go there before Kraagor's gate(I assume Nale has heard this off panel, when learning about the gates). Well why would Nale head into a three way battle for a gate when he can head to Kraagor's gate himself and face no competition. He has already made it clear in the past that he doesn't want to take part in a three way battle, and the gate they were heading to was never actually stated.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html

This also lines up with the fact that O'Chul and Lien are heading to Kraagor's gate, where they may come across the Linear Guild. The way I see the story going, is that the Elf forces combined with the resistance start a full out attack just as Xykon's Phlactery is found. Xykon will force Redcloak to abondon the hobgoblins and allow an easy victory for the Resistance. Shortly after, Hinjo receives a message about the Linear Guild at Kraagor's gate, prompting a large portion of the forces to teleport there, leaving the Resistance back into an uphill battle.

Thoughts?

[Moogleking]

And miss out on Nale and Elan's father's big revela as Tyrinaria? No chance.

[tribble]

nah, if we see the linear guild theyll be fighting with the OOTS.

[Optimystik]

Nale's sense of drama is as prominent as Elan's; he's not going to consider O-Chul and Lien, being bit characters, as being worthy of his time.

[Quinton250]

Nale would have no idea Lien and O'Chul will be at Kraagor's gate. He might assume he'll have all the time in the world to mess around with Kraagor's gate.


Or perhaps, they head to Girard's gate, a small conflict occurs between the Guild and the OOTS involving Nale and Elan's father and after being beaten, the Linear Guild spies on the OOTS or Xykon while something involving the gate occurs. They then ditch the scene mid battle, repeat of their actions in the Azure City battle, and take their new information to Kraagor's gate.

[Herald Alberich]

The three-way battle mentioned was the one over the Azure City gate. Nale had no way of knowing it would be destroyed and that Xykon would have to move on to another; the Oracle's prophecy says nothing about when Xykon will approach Girard's Gate. The fact that he will at all would support the LG going to Kraagor's Gate instead, except that Nale is arrogant enough to think that Xykon might just go there to do him (Nale) homage after he gains all the power and takes over the world.

The chief evidence that they will be there, in my mind, is that the "never-ending escalation of petty revenge" demands it. Nale's not going to head off north when his brother is going west.

[David Argall]

Nale is headed to Girard's gate. His & Elan's dad is pretty firmly established as [vaguely near] there, and it would be amazing if father and brothers do not have some form of confrontation, which is likely coming up in the next 50 strips.

[Threndsa]

And miss out on Nale and Elan's father's big revela as Tyrinaria? No chance.

I agree with the moogle Bardic tradition demands it

[Liwen]

I like the bit about Redcloak being forced to abandon his hobo friends to certain death at the moment he realized they are suffering a major attack. it would certainly raise the tension between him and Xykon even higher, which will lead to the inevitable backstabbing and everything we suspect might occur. I personally think Redcloak as even more reasons to be the one who ends Xykon than Roy and would love to see him land the final blow.

[Fitzclowningham]

I also think they'll be at Girard's Gate. The IFCC knows that's where everyone is going, and probably told Sabine. Storywise, it would be good if the OoTS, racing ahead to hopefully ambush Team Evil, themselves get ambushed by the Linear Guild.

[Herald Alberich]

I also think they'll be at Girard's Gate. The IFCC knows that's where everyone is going, and probably told Sabine. Storywise, it would be good if the OoTS, racing ahead to hopefully ambush Team Evil, themselves get ambushed by the Linear Guild.

Oh, right, I almost forgot about that. That pretty much clinches it in my mind; we'll see the Guild before the Order gets to the gate.

"The race for the next Gate begins tomorrow."
"And while they fight each other, we move our pawns into position."

"Destructive unnecessary conflict is pretty much all they do." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html)

[Wormwood74]

Funny alignment and D&D mechanics question...

There was a big argument way back here about what to do with the linear guild when captured. V argued the halfling's point of view...but lost.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0399.html

It used to be that the effect of polymorph in 2nd edition was permanent. What would stop V (or another spellcaster from Azure City) from just changing the linear guild all into guinea pigs, putting them in cages full of wood shavings and delicious vegetables, and keeping them this way?

Would that be too chaotic? It would certainly serve the greater good, and the members of the linear guild wouldn't really suffer...they'd be well kept as rodents with all the fresh produce and cage cleanings they could want...

Or, is polymorph no longer permanent? Is Sabine immune or able to plane shift as a guinea pig or something crazy like that? Is it cross school for V?

[Tempest Fennac]

Baleful Polymorph, http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/BalefulPolymorph.htm , would do that perminantly, as would Polymorph Any Object, but that would be harder to use for this purpose ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm ).

[Wormwood74]

Looks like it would work on Thog and on Nale, but Sabine would be able to revert to her old form at will.

So what would do do about her? Is there a way to dimensioanlly anchor her and then to render her harmless?

[hamishspence]

In The Pirate King by R. A. Salvatore, one of the Harpells does use this method. Drizzt is very undecided as to whether its moral or not- since brain power slowly devolves to that of the polymorphed creature, it's not really that different from slow execution "Death By Loss of Identity"

However, in core, there is nothing quite like that for baleful polymorph as far as I am aware.

[Bibliomancer]

Baleful Polymorph, http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/BalefulPolymorph.htm , would do that perminantly, as would Polymorph Any Object, but that would be harder to use for this purpose ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm ).

Unfortunately, Baneful Polymorph can be broken using a Break Enchantment, and Polymorph Any Object can be countered with another Polymorph Any Object.


Looks like it would work on Thog and on Nale, but Sabine would be able to revert to her old form at will.

So what would do do about her? Is there a way to dimensionally anchor her and then to render her harmless?

There's always Sanctify the Wicked if you're using Exalted rules. That would give her one Will Save to avoid becoming permanently Good, or two if V and other back of casters (including Elan) prepare to cast Alter Fortune (3rd level spell for basically all classes, which forces a reroll).

Apart from that...they could use Planar Binding to summon her and leave her in a summoning circle. She'd get a Charisma check to escape, but with some creativity on V's part they might be able to multilayer the protections...including Protection from Evil, Dimensional Anchor, etc.

They could also shove her into a nigh-unbreakable adamantine box with an antimagic field covering the interior...this is probably the easiest way that they have available to them, in fact.

[waterpenguin43]

Funny alignment and D&D mechanics question...

There was a big argument way back here about what to do with the linear guild when captured. V argued the halfling's point of view...but lost.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0399.html

It used to be that the effect of polymorph in 2nd edition was permanent. What would stop V (or another spellcaster from Azure City) from just changing the linear guild all into guinea pigs, putting them in cages full of wood shavings and delicious vegetables, and keeping them this way?

Would that be too chaotic? It would certainly serve the greater good, and the members of the linear guild wouldn't really suffer...they'd be well kept as rodents with all the fresh produce and cage cleanings they could want...

Or, is polymorph no longer permanent? Is Sabine immune or able to plane shift as a guinea pig or something crazy like that? Is it cross school for V?
I find it unlikely that Vaarsivus would have 3 baleful polymorphs prepared, personally. Then Elan came up with the idea of the anti-magic cells, so it was done.

[Bibliomancer]

I find it unlikely that Vaarsivus would have 3 baleful polymorphs prepared, personally. Then Elan came up with the idea of the anti-magic cells, so it was done.

Also, baleful polymorph doesn't restrict shapechangers like Sabine.

[hamishspence]

There's always Sanctify the Wicked if you're using Exalted rules. That would give her one Will Save to avoid becoming permanently Good, or two if V and other back of casters (including Elan) prepare to cast Alter Fortune (3rd level spell for basically all classes, which forces a reroll).

While it doesn't say so in the description of the spell:

In the description of the "Sanctified Creature" template, it states that the template cannot be applied to "outsiders with the evil subtype"

Oddly, it goes on to list subtypes, like "baatezu" "yugoloth" and "tanar'ri" that automatically get lost when the template is applied.

Possible reconciliation of the two- Savage Species- has a ritual that can be used to add or remove an alignment subtype.

So, first you apply the ritual, then you apply Sanctify. Outsiders always gain the Good subtype if Sanctified.

[Watcher]

Ceila has stated that Outsiders don't have an afterlife, but "sort of merge back into the plane" they're from. Assuming this means the way Lawful Good souls eventually reach the top level of Celestia and become part of it, then Sabine should just die forever. That would make sense for why they can't be resurrected. But, Haley said that "they keep changing it," so we can't be sure. Vaarsuvius/Durkon just needs to make a successful Knowledge (Whatever) check to know, or just research it.


And it would be nice to have one ten of those "Helmets of Reverse Alignment"

[The Pale King]

And miss out on Nale and Elan's father's big revela as Tyrinaria? No chance.
Um, I know this theory is practically canon around here, but I think that might just make it more likely that it's not the case. I've heard Rich doesn't particularly care for fan theories.

Course I could be wrong:smalltongue:

[Purple_cloack]

I apologize if this theory has been brought forward before, or if something I am not remembering in the comic has proven this wrong.


Itseems to me, everyone has decided that the Linear Guild has taken a head start in advancing to Girard's Gate. They left during the battle of Azure City, which at this point is many months ago, and Team Evil nor the OOTS have followed suit quite yet. Many people expect the Linear Guild to be waiting for the OOTS, or in the process of trying to control the gate.


But is this a realistic course of action? Nale knows that the OOTS is heading to Girard's gate next, and likely knows that this is because Xykon is bound by fate to go there before Kraagor's gate(I assume Nale has heard this off panel, when learning about the gates). Well why would Nale head into a three way battle for a gate when he can head to Kraagor's gate himself and face no competition. He has already made it clear in the past that he doesn't want to take part in a three way battle, and the gate they were heading to was never actually stated.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html

This also lines up with the fact that O'Chul and Lien are heading to Kraagor's gate, where they may come across the Linear Guild. The way I see the story going, is that the Elf forces combined with the resistance start a full out attack just as Xykon's Phlactery is found. Xykon will force Redcloak to abondon the hobgoblins and allow an easy victory for the Resistance. Shortly after, Hinjo receives a message about the Linear Guild at Kraagor's gate, prompting a large portion of the forces to teleport there, leaving the Resistance back into an uphill battle.

Thoughts?

I like this. It sounds...good. And still realistic. NAle has seen either one of Lien or O-Chul when they were in prison, and stuff. Do you think that they may have got company? Maybe, but in the other hand, Nale dont want new company, as said in the prison break. This feels good.