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MustacheFart
2009-08-05, 06:29 PM
Hey all,

I have a character who recently acquired a small mountain (a dwarf character hah :smallbiggrin:) in a game I play in regularly. The DM told me to look up the average size of a small mountain. I've tried google'ing it as suggested to me, to no avail.

What I am looking for is the average size in terms of acres. The plot of land I specifically received was about 15 acres. To me that seems too small to fully contain a mountain, of any size really, but the DM has said that the whole mountain is within my land. After bringing it up with the DM, he said the 15 acres was an approximation and that, "I own a small mountain and should look up what the size of one is typically." After searching and searching, here I am. :smallsmile:

Since I am a proud Dwarf who was just granted land; specifically, land containing a mountain, within a Human and Elven populated area, I find it is necessary...NO! MY DUTY! as a proud Dwarf, to accurately survey the land and then build an underground/within-mountain Dwarven community so that we may take our rightful place, spreading our superiority over an up-until-now weak province festered with disgusting pansy elfs :smallmad:!!! /end dwarf rant

Any help would be appreciated. :smallsmile:

-MustacheFart

EDIT: Hah, I just noticed I am a Dwarf in the Playground now too. That's funny...

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-08-05, 06:33 PM
Rough definitions:

Height over base of at least 2,500m
Height over base of 1500-2500m with a slope greater than 2 degrees
Height over base of 1000-1500m with a slope greater than 5 degrees
Local (radius 7 km) elevation greater than 300m, or 300-1000m if local (radius 7 km) elevation is greater than 300m

jmbrown
2009-08-05, 06:44 PM
15 acres is about 120 square miles so that's a pretty good plot of land for a small mountain.

In America, a mountain is at least 1000 feet above the land.

Yeah, our mountains are puny compared to every other country who generally measure a mountain as being 2500 feet above the land.

dragoonsgone
2009-08-05, 06:56 PM
Woah, 15 acres isnt 120 square miles

1 mile = 5,280 feet
5,280^2=27,878,400 square feet
1 acre = 43,560 square feet.
43,560*15=653,400 square feet

Which is a bit smaller than 600 by 1100 plot of land. You could fit a hill on that but not a small mountain by almost anyones definition of the word.

There are 640 Acres in 1 square mile.

edited to add last part

MustacheFart
2009-08-05, 07:40 PM
Rough definitions:
Local (radius 7 km) elevation greater than 300m, or 300-1000m if local (radius 7 km) elevation is greater than 300m

Huh? That last part confuses me :smallfrown:.

dragoonsgone
2009-08-05, 07:46 PM
Elevation over the local terrain of 300 M. If the local terrain is over 300M in elevation then the mountain requirement goes up to 300-100M. Local being a radius of 7 KM

hewhosaysfish
2009-08-06, 08:50 AM
What's 15 acres?
The cross-section of the base of the mountain (i.e. the size of the plot of flat land you would need to park this mountain on if the mountain could drive around)?
The surface area of the mountain (i.e. the size of the plot of land you could wrap around a giant cone to re-create this mountain)?
The useable ( i.e farmable) portion of the surface area of the mountain?
The useable ( i.e flat enough to build on) portion of the surface area of the mountain?

I'm sure that mountain-ologists have their own conventions for describing the size of a mountain (and looking at what's been posted before this, they aren't in terms of area...) but I don't think you or you DM are using, aware of or particularly concerned about these.

Indon
2009-08-06, 09:11 AM
Yeah, our mountains are puny compared to every other country who generally measure a mountain as being 2500 feet above the land.

I bet it's so that the Appalacians qualify.

Really, for a Dwarf settlement, isn't the acreage less important than the mountain's volume? Your city can be three-dimensional, after all.

Curmudgeon
2009-08-06, 09:29 AM
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain), you should expect a small mountain to have its highest point at least 1000 feet or more above its base and a slope of not more than 5 degrees. (That uses the American and English definitions; others require greater heights = bigger mountain.) If the mountain is circular the radius will be 1000'/(tan 5 degrees), or 11,430'. That makes the area 410,436,814 square feet, or 9,422 acres. Mountains can have slopes as low as 2 degrees, which would require a lot more area (around 60,000 acres) to get to 1000' above the base.

If a mountain is supposed to fit in your DM's puny 15 acres, the radius would only be 456'. That would mean a 65.5 degree slope to get to 1000' at the peak. Following the D&D rules, such a slope necessitates a DC 25 Climb check every 7½ feet (or ¼ your speed). That's just plain ridiculous.

Just tell your DM that the size should be closer to 15,000 acres than 15.

Lapak
2009-08-06, 09:34 AM
The problem may be more with your DM's perception of an acre than of your DM's perception of a mountain. 15 acres is very small even for a single-family farm; if you're receiving something more like a fief (which it sounds like, if it includes a mountain) you're getting a LOT more space than that.

Curmudgeon
2009-08-06, 10:01 AM
The problem may be more with your DM's perception of an acre than of your DM's perception of a mountain.
You know, 15 square miles (9,600 acres) comes very close to the minimum area (9,422 acres) I computed for a small mountain. Perhaps that's what the answer should be.

bosssmiley
2009-08-06, 11:44 AM
An acre was traditionally a strip of land 22 by 220 yards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acre). 15 of those are about 330 by 220 yards in area, or about 1/40th of a square mile.

Check your DM isn't mixing up acres and hectares (100m x 100m blocks of land).

As for dwarven land rights. You could simplify this two ways:

Dwarven feudalism: You are lord of the mountain. How much land is that? As far as you can see, and as far as your huscarls can march!
(traditionally in D&D this means a day's march in every direction from your stronghold - 20ml radius, modified by terrain)
Dwarven capitalism: Who cares for the land rights of surface dwellers? You can pay for their products easily enough, or slam the gates and ignore them for a decade or two. Worry about who has the local mining concessions, that's where the real money is. :smallwink:
(in D&D terms your fief is the dwarfholds within the mountain. The surface is good for naught but goats)

Enough talk. Strike the earth!

Quietus
2009-08-06, 11:54 AM
Why does the actual size matter? Who cares whether it's 15 acres or 15,000 acres, or 15 hectares, or whatever...

DM : "You own a mountain, here's your deed."
Player : "Sweet! How big is it?"
DM : "On a scale of big to huge, it's fairly big."

John Campbell
2009-08-06, 11:54 AM
I just flipped my Vermont topo atlas open to a random page and measured a good small mountain. Mount Ascutney is a rough cone with a base radius of about a mile and a half and a height of about 3000 feet. That gives it a footprint of about 7 square miles, or 4500 acres, and a volume of about 200 billion cubic feet.

hamishspence
2009-08-06, 12:18 PM
Yeah, our mountains are puny compared to every other country who generally measure a mountain as being 2500 feet above the land.


In Scotland, mountains get special names (Munroes, Corbetts, etc) depending on how high above sea level they are.

Munro is anything above 3000 feet, Corbett is anything above 2500 but below 3000. There are others such as Graham's and Davids, but these are the well-known ones.

The difference between a hill and a mountain can be a matter of perspective- in small countries 1000 feet above sea level can be pretty mountainous.

Indon
2009-08-06, 12:21 PM
As for dwarven land rights. You could simplify this two ways:

A third option -
Dwarf Fortress (http://www.threepanelsoul.com/view.php?date=2009-07-21): The dwarves do what they want, and what they want is very strange.