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Drakevarg
2009-08-06, 10:55 PM
Blood Knight

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Prerequisites:
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Feats: Great Cleave, Die Hard

Abilities: Strength, Constitution, Dexterity
Alignment: Any Chaotic.
Hit Dice: d10

Class Skills
Balance
Climb
Intimidate
Jump
Ride
Survival
Swim
Tumble
Skill Points Per Level: 2 + Int Modifier

Class Features:
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The Blood Knight gets no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.
Impossible Strength: The Blood Knight gets an extra +2 to all melee attack rolls per level.
Retribution: Any time the Blood Knight takes damage, he adds half of that damage to his next damage roll to a maximum of twice his Blood Knight level.
Demonic Aura: Beginning at 2nd level, the Blood Knight's presence becomes so intimidating that all creatures within 30 feet of him must make a Will Save of 10 + the Blood Knight's class level or become so terrified that they cower in fear as if rebuked, giving all attack rolls against those creatures a +2 bonus.
Fearless: Beginning at 3rd level, the Blood Knight is immune to fear effects.
Deathless: At 5th level, the Blood Knight is no longer effected by being dropped to zero or lower health. However, upon reaching -10 HP, he still dies as usual. He also becomes immune to death effects.
Bloodied Aura: At 7th level, the Blood Knight gains damage reduction equal to twice his level.
Crushing Blow: At 10th level, the Blood Knight can focus all his strength into a single blow, overpowering all but the toughest of targets. After taking a full-round action to ready the attack, the Blood Knight can make a single attack that is gaurenteed to hit. The target must make a Fortitude save equal to 10 + the Blood Knight's class level, or be cleaved in two and killed instantly. If the target makes the save, the Blood Knight deals damage as usual.

The Blood Knight
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+1|
--|
--|+2 Melee Damage, Retribution

2nd|
+2|
--|
--|
--|+4 Melee Damage, Demonic Aura

3rd|
+3|
+2|
+1|
+1|+6 Melee Damage, Fearless

4th|
+4|
--|
--|
--|+8 Melee Damage

5th|
+5|
+3|
--|
--|+10 Melee Damage, Deathless

6th|
+6/+1|
--|
+2|
+2|+12 Melee Damage

7th|
+7/+2|
+4|
--|
--|+14 Melee Damage, Bloodied Aura

8th|
+8/+3|
--|
--|
--|+16 Melee Damage

9th|
+9/+4|
+5|
+3|
+3|+18 Melee Damage

10th|
+10/+5|
--|
--|
--|+20 Melee Damage, Crushing Blow[/table]

AstralFire
2009-08-06, 10:58 PM
+40 BAB and +40 damage to every strike?

I believe that is enough said.

Drakevarg
2009-08-06, 11:00 PM
+40 BAB and +40 damage to every strike?

I believe that is enough said.

I was gonna cut that in half, but then I considered the fact that he's got NOTHING else. He's tough and he hits REALLY hard.

So, I take it you think I should just have +1/level for BAB?

AstralFire
2009-08-06, 11:10 PM
I mean... the class is broken. Not overpowered, not underpowered, just broken. Doesn't work.

At 20th level, anything he can reach dies. Anything he can't, kills him. And there's a lot he can't reach.

It's an amazing class to dip. "Hey, my gish build only gets +15 BAB." "Well, no problem, substitute the level you took in Fighter to qualify for X and take a level in Blood Knight instead. Bingo bango, +16 BAB and all of your attacks magically hit for extra damage equal to your BAB."

The less effort you have to put into making a class, the less good that's going to come out of it.

Cedrass
2009-08-06, 11:10 PM
Is... this the class? No special abilities aside from the absurd boost to attacks and damage?

It's... a boring class IMO... Sorry to say.

Origomar
2009-08-06, 11:14 PM
Ya sorry to say but in my opinion this just seems like a class to dip in to make your origonal class better.

its not very creative its basically a fighter that can destroy anything it can hit and has no bonus feats.

Also there is no list of skills.

better yet give it a bow and arrow and your pretty much set.(impossible strength doesnt say anything about it just affecting melee weapons.)

i honestly thought it was going to be sort of a blackguard deal, an evil paladin that has vampiric abilities.

Trodon
2009-08-06, 11:21 PM
Make the Base attack bonus +2 then +4 then +6 ect ect the way you have it is that you always have a +2 Base attack bonus.

Drakevarg
2009-08-06, 11:23 PM
Fixed the multiclassing problem.

And the reason I'm not adding class skills (other than laziness) is because I'm kind of defaulting my thought process to my Artres campaign setting, in which all skills are class skills.

As for the name, I got it from TVTropes, which says it means a warrior who lives solely for battle.

And why do you say anything he can't reach kills him? He gets a d20 health each level.


Make the Base attack bonus +2 then +4 then +6 ect ect the way you have it is that you always have a +2 Base attack bonus.

This simply tells you how much you gain each level, so as to avoid confusion while multiclassing.


Is... this the class? No special abilities aside from the absurd boost to attacks and damage?

It's... a boring class IMO... Sorry to say.

And a fighter isn't? Big BAB and bonus feats.

AstralFire
2009-08-06, 11:33 PM
Because health isn't everything.

d20 health is no. Any frontliner type should take their first level in this class for the free 20 health at first level.

By removing the insane BAB progression, you've now made a class that is worse than the fighter in every regard except when he is being hit on by lots of little, weak, things. The Fighter is generally considered to be terrible class design in terms of power, usefulness, and interesting mechanics. This is not good.

Let me put it this way; your class consists of a table. Not to toot my own horn, but I have a three-level prestige class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5052918#post5052918) with more text.

If you want to make a good, interesting class, it has to be more than a table. Doesn't have to be walls of text - that's bad. But it has to be more than a table. It has to be a concept, it should try to introduce a new mechanical paradigm, it should make people sit up and go "I want to take every level in this class." If your feeling about the class when you post the thread is "eh, I'm kinda bored," I would re-evaluate what you just made.

Origomar
2009-08-06, 11:36 PM
Astral has a point(although that is a ton of text for a 3 level prestige class :p)

it takes a long time to come up with a good class, its not something you can just pull out of a hat. Im making a class ive been thinking about for atleast a week and i still havent put everything together(thats because im visiting relatives but you get the point).

Drakevarg
2009-08-06, 11:39 PM
Well the thing is I didn't want to have a class full of unnessicary gimmicks. My favored class is fighter for a reason. It's easy to figure out and I get to kill lotsa stuff.

If you need a concept, I was basically trying to model the class after Kenpachi Zaraki. No tricks, no fancy maneuvers, just lots and lots of brute strength.

Anywho, knocked down the HD to d10... probably classifying this fellow as "underpowered" now. I think I'll double the BAB again, but hey, you can't insta-boost yourself with him anymore.

EDIT: Scratch that. Doubled the damage bonus instead.

AstralFire
2009-08-06, 11:43 PM
Well the thing is I didn't want to have a class full of unnessicary gimmicks. My favored class is fighter for a reason. It's easy to figure out and I get to kill lotsa stuff.

If you need a concept, I was basically trying to model the class after Kenpachi Zaraki. No tricks, no fancy maneuvers, just lots and lots of brute strength.

I believe we have a class for that. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/barbarian.htm)

In fact, with stuff like Indomitable Will, Damage Reduction and Fast Movement, what I know of Kenpachi Zaraki suggests that he fits that class better. I... hate to admit knowledge of Bleach, but we're talking about a guy who:

Stabs himself with a sword to negate being blinded.
Demonstrably has no fear.
Has a power aura that prevents weaker weapons from even cutting him.
Moves insanely fast, such that he needs bells in his hair to let opponents hear him coming.

For a guy with 'no tricks', he has more of them in the bag than the Blood Knight does.

Your class runs into a Wizard who waves his hands, and all of a sudden your class is the Wizard's new best friend.

Do you think Kenpachi Zaraki would do that? Or do you think he'd go "SCREW YOU MAN WITH A FUNNY HAT, I'M GOING TO STAB MYSELF, BECOME ENRAGED, AND THEN PULL OUT MY RIBS AND USE THEM TO CARVE YOU INTO A HAT"?

Now, if you excuse me, I need to go back to pretending I never watched Bleach...

Guh. I had to just explain why Kenpachi Zaraki is cool. I feel dirty now.

Drakevarg
2009-08-06, 11:45 PM
Within the Bleach universe, Zaraki does qualify as "trickless". Since their spiritual pressure automatically applies to speed, strength and endurence. And he just has ALOT of it.

As for the self-stabbing and no fear... well, the dude's completely out of his mind.

NINJA FIX: First off, that made me lawl. Second, I just got an idea for masochistic buffs...

AstralFire
2009-08-06, 11:48 PM
Within the Bleach universe, Zaraki does qualify as "trickless". Since their spiritual pressure automatically applies to speed, strength and endurence.

As for the self-stabbing and no fear... well, the dude's completely out of his mind.

The fact that the dude is completely out of his mind is an integral part of his fighting style. You didn't make Kenpachi Zaraki, you made a robot who hits really hard. I submit, again, that the Barbarian does a better job of representing a primal fighter than this class does.

strawberryman
2009-08-06, 11:48 PM
:smallconfused: Doubling BAB isn't going to help. It's more than a bit bland... Even Blood Knights have their special tricks, like Kenpachi Zaraki, shrugging off blows that would kill others, adapting to cutting through defenses... (Just some of the tricks I made with my own Blood Knight class)

+40 BAB would just unbalance things with other classes, and with +20 BAB and nothing else to put it up aside from the damage...

Aaand, AstralFire explained it quite well, honestly.

Drakevarg
2009-08-06, 11:59 PM
Alright, added a couple of abilities.

But yeah, he doesn't get doubled BAB anymore. At 10th level he does add +20to every melee damage roll, though.

But regardless, I think your criticisms are exactly what I needed to get my brain ticking.

Cedrass
2009-08-07, 12:13 AM
Retribution is a really strong ability to have. Maybe put a limit on the max damage he can add like I dunno, his Blood Knight level. Because right now it's an extremely good reason to dip in this class.

Instead of Juggernaut, maybe just give them the Die Hard feat. I know it's nitpicking, but I think it would be better.

That being said, the class still lacks something to make it special and interesting. Your Fighter example as being a boring class, well it gets to do neat tricks with feats that allow you to Pounce or make a Jump check to boost your attack. I don't know if the idea I'm trying to get across is clear enough, but in short: make him do something nice. Not just damage boosts...

Edit: Oh and I'm with the idea that classes should have a capstone ability. Make us want that last level!

AstralFire
2009-08-07, 12:15 AM
Getting better.

Something to remember - your best abilities should be at the end of the class, with the class' power increase being represented as a slight curve that peaks at the final level - each level should (on average) be slightly better than the one before it. It's hard to do this perfectly with only 20 levels, but it's a goal to aim for.

I don't think a flat increase to damage is what you really want here; at level 20, you are making four attacks a round. Now, they could very well be fighting that fast in Bleach, it's hard to tell (funny how they're fighting superhumanly fast unless it's time to talk), but Zaraki's fighting style is 'fast and furious', it's not supposed to resemble death by a thousand cuts so much. So, for example, I might give the class the following ability:

Berserker Stance: The Blood Knight cares nothing for his well-being, and only for blood. When using the Power Attack feat with a two-handed melee weapon, you may subtract a value from your Armor Class rather than your attack roll, and add double this value to your damage roll with the weapon. (This is a potent ability; if you use something like it, not for first level.)

Or

Heavy Swings: The Blood Knight focuses all of his power into one strike. When making a full attack action or a charge action, the Blood Knight may forego all additional attacks in order to make a single strike at full power. If he subtracts a value of 5 or more from his attack roll with the Power Attack feat and the attack hits, the target must make a Fortitude Save with a Difficulty Class of (10+˝Character Level+Str) or be slain instantly, cleaved in two. On a successful save, the target is merely knocked prone.

That'd be a capstone ability. That's also overpowered, but I'm too lazy to adjust numbers.

Or how about something like

Aura of Power: Creatures within 30 feet of the Blood Knight are shaken. This is a mind-affecting fear ability, and does not affect creatures with as many or more hit dice than the Blood Knight. The Blood Knight can activate or suppress this aura as a full-round action.

To represent his insane ki aura, which freaked out even Ichigo once it was revealed. Just ideas. Zaraki may not have been a complicated fighter, but even if it is just due to the nature of how ki works in the Bleach universe, he has a wider repertoire than "I hit him lots, for lots of damage," and the little touches are what will help bring a player in to that feeling.

Drakevarg
2009-08-07, 12:28 AM
Added "Bloodsport" as my equivalent to the Berserker Stance/Heavy Swings suggestions.

And given his Bloodied Aura, is the intimidation Aura a bit much?

EDIT: Heh. Actually READ your Heavy Swings thing... so Blood Knights would have a vorpal weapon as a class ability?


Instead of Juggernaut, maybe just give them the Die Hard feat. I know it's nitpicking, but I think it would be better.

Well, the Die Hard feat makes you concious at negative levels, but Juggernaut (Deathless, now, actually) lets him remain fully active until he's dead.

I COULD make Die Hard a prerequisite feat, though.

AstralFire
2009-08-07, 12:41 AM
Bloodied Aura itself is too much; someone who takes one level in a non-martial class will not be able to hurt you with physical attacks. I would suggest good old Damage Reduction.

Heavy Swings is too powerful to be more than 1 or 2/encounter, like I said, numbers would need to be adjusted.

Bloodsport isn't enough to compensate for giving up your extra attacks; it works when you have two or three iteratives, not for four or five (such as if you have haste.)

Drakevarg
2009-08-07, 12:52 AM
Bloodied Aura changed to damage reduction and removed from the capstone status.

Bloodsport replaced with Crushing Blow and granted capstone status.

EDIT: Prerequisites lowered. Why? Because Greater Weapon Focus didn't seem that nessicary and I wanted a multiclass Cleric of Apollo/Blood Knight... which was kinda impossible without being Epic Level before.

The Neoclassic
2009-08-07, 05:57 AM
Why is BAB simply +1 throughout rather than +1, +2, +3, etc? Same for the saves formatting. I think someone else already mentioned it, but I believe the +1, +2, +3, etc. is standard formatting procedure, and if you leave it as solely +1 throughout, that could be interpreted as BAB never rises.

I know you said that your particular campaign doesn't have class skill lists, but if you intend on the class being useful for anyone else, you may want to take the two minutes to whip one up. Shouldn't be too hard. :smallsmile:

Finally, I like AstralFire's suggestion for the Aura of Power. I recommend adding that in at some point; people generally enjoy prestige classes without "dead levels" (levels where they don't get any new, unique special powers).

I think you could make this class a little less generalized and hence a little more interesting, with just a tad bit of work. I look forward to seeing this class further develop further!

Drakevarg
2009-08-07, 06:44 AM
Alright, added a few class skills.

I'll fiddle with the Fear Aura a bit.

As for the listings of the bonuses, as I mentioned earlier, I'm having it listed as how much you gain per level as opposed to how much you have total for that class. It just makes more sense that way in my head.

As for less generalized, this fellow's primary (if not only) function is to beat the ever-loving crap out of anyone downrange. And with the potential ability to do Weapon Damage + 40 + 1.5x Str Modifier to anyone who MAKES a DC 20 Fort Save, I'd say he's rather good at doing so.

How could I make him be non-generalized and still have him be a straightforward offensive melee class? Seems an oxymoron to meh.

EDIT: Anywho, added Demonic Aura as his fear effect.

The Neoclassic
2009-08-07, 08:42 AM
Alright, added a few class skills.

Craft is pretty standard, even for combat classes, so you may want to add that. I'm also curious why Survival and Tumble are on the list. Not objecting, just wondering (since you stated yourself you basically see it as a generalized, fighter-type class). :smallwink:


As for the listings of the bonuses, as I mentioned earlier, I'm having it listed as how much you gain per level as opposed to how much you have total for that class. It just makes more sense that way in my head.

I guess, but expect it to confuse your players (if they've played with anyone else or own any books or use the SRD) and everyone else. Standard formatting is used for a reason. :smallsmile:


As for less generalized, this fellow's primary (if not only) function is to beat the ever-loving crap out of anyone downrange. And with the potential ability to do Weapon Damage + 40 + 1.5x Str Modifier to anyone who MAKES a DC 20 Fort Save, I'd say he's rather good at doing so.

Yes, but that doesn't prevent you from adding more flavorful stuff that still has a similar focus, like AstralFire's berserker stance suggestion.


How could I make him be non-generalized and still have him be a straightforward offensive melee class? Seems an oxymoron to meh.

I can't think of a good way to put it, but it can be done. Maybe an oxymoron to have an extremely flexible class and make it nongeneralized, but you can certainly have a straightforward offensive melee class with a clear focus and flavor. I mean, the barbarian is pretty much a straightforward offensive melee class, but it has unique flavor (thanks to the skill list, rage, alignment restriction, etc). If that makes sense? Whatever, it's your class. :smalltongue:

I guess when I PEACH (which is usually what I assume these threads are for, though I need to better remember that not all are), I try to approach it with by saying "How could I help make this a PrC that others in the playground would be able to use and enjoy, while still keeping the poster's original goals in mind?" However, if this is something you're making solely for your own use, by all means, ignore my formatting and flavor suggestions. :smallsmile:

Drakevarg
2009-08-07, 08:50 AM
Dumped Survival. I was under the impression that tumble was an athletics-type skill, a sort of "dont-get-hurt-as-much-while-falling" skill. Seemed relevent for an obviously physically active skill.

I didn't give him Craft because I wanted to give him skills purely related to combat or simply existing in harsh environments. A psychopath who's always on the battlefield simply is never going to sit in front of a forge and learn how to make axe heads.

Gave it standard formatting.

And finally, this may sound rather silly, but what does "PEACH" mean anyway?

The Neoclassic
2009-08-07, 09:32 AM
Dumped Survival. I was under the impression that tumble was an athletics-type skill, a sort of "dont-get-hurt-as-much-while-falling" skill. Seemed relevent for an obviously physically active skill.

I didn't give him Craft because I wanted to give him skills purely related to combat or simply existing in harsh environments. A psychopath who's always on the battlefield simply is never going to sit in front of a forge and learn how to make axe heads.

Well, actually, then Survival could fit, as it does directly help with existing in harsh environments. Your point about Craft makes sense; with that, it's reasonable not to include it.


Gave it standard formatting.

Yay!


And finally, this may sound rather silly, but what does "PEACH" mean anyway?

Please Evaluate and Critique... Huzzah? Something like that. :smallbiggrin: Basically, it says that one wants feedback, including constructive criticism and qualifying praise. :smallsmile:

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-07, 09:32 AM
Please Evaluate and Critique... Huzzah?

Honestly.

Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly.

Drakevarg
2009-08-07, 09:39 AM
Well, Survival's back.

As for the PEACH thing, thanks for telling me that bit. Now I can add that to the Artres topic and actually get something done!

Anywho, any other ideas for this rather vicious class?