OOTS #672 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

Also, see the News post regarding OOTS' brief hiatus.

[vampire2948]

Yay, i'm online when an update occurs!

Wow, that was awesome. A planet within the planet, 'huh? Maybe Snarl got lonely and felt like making its own followers :smallbiggrin: or the Gods managed to make a second prison within the prison?
Aaah, the threads will be alive with speculation until the 31st of this month. :smalleek:

Thanks Rich!

[Narazil]

That's awesome! Never saw that coming, not one bit.

[jayeljay]

A planet.....within the planet?

I must say that this seems incredibly awesome.

[daggaz]

DUN DUN DUN!!!

Bet nobody saw that one comming :smallamused:

[Zanaril]

Well.

That was unexpected.


Also that raven is great, hope we see him more often from now on. :smallcool:

[Haven]

Holy crap!

I think I get it, though: the Snarl used to be the threads that created the first world, so over time it may have sorted itself out.

[Majutsukai]

...Interesting.

I can't wait to see where this goes.

[Aerysil]

Nice water breaking effect from the boat :)

Enjoy your rest, Rich.

[Rad]

Wow...amazing! I must said I've been moved more by Blackwing speaking than the plot elements.
I think I really like the new Vaarsuvius too :smallsmile:

This HAS been the best comic in a while!

[RelentlessImp]

Annnnnnnd the forum erupts in speculation threads. Awesome comic, but I fear for the sanctity of this part of the forums.

[dianakingston]

So is this the end of book 4?

[Zanaril]

Oh yes, I also congratulate you on leaving us with so much to argue discuss. We certainly won't get bored here.

[nysisobli]

wow epic, kragor may be alive!!!!

[lothos]

So is this the end of book 4?

Pretty sure it is. I mean the last time there was a bottom of the strip banner saying the strip would be on hiatus, that was the end of Book 3. Plus it really seems like a great way to wrap up the book.

Oh, and awesome strip by the way ! Loved the character development, especially of V and his Familiar. Also I like the way that Elan, while uncomfortable with Haley killing Crystal seems to accept that she thought it was necessary, or at least justified.

So the Planet within the rift (within the planet) ? I wonder if the Snarl re-created World 1.0.... or didn't actually destroy it as was believed. Lots of unanswered questions there.

I also notice that the planet appears to have rather large ice caps.... covering what appears to be a very large proportion of the planet. Perhaps it's got no star to keep it warm ? But then it's probably a BIG mistake to try and apply any kind of real world logic or physics to this situation.

I think V's quote "Perhaps we do not know everything we ought to regarding the task we are undertaking" probably applies to an awful lot of situations in D&D.... especially when the DM is grinning. For that matter, a lot of real world situations too :-)

[Shott]

Interesting stuff with Blackwing and a great way to end the chapter. Looking forward to August 31!

[Ted_Stryker]

I liked seeing Blackwing speak, and the revelation of another planet. Nice work, Rich.

[meep]

My god.... it's full of stars....

[kaszanix]

Maybe now, when Blackwing started speaking in Common, we will finally find out what it asked the Oracle about and what is the ginkgo bilboa (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) for ;-)

[RdMarquis]

Wow, that was suprisingly nice of V. Not to mention, it looks like Blackwing is making a move from "Oh, I forgot I had him" to a character in his own right. His comments about the planet are going to leave us spouting crazy ideas all the way to August 31st. :smallamused:

[TheJayPhoenix]

Excellent issue and Blackwing becomes even more important - yay for familiars! :)

I wonder if we are going to see a visit to our little World? ;)

[kpenguin]

It's funny. I noticed just a couple of hours ago that OotS hadn't updated for over a week and then, boom, update.

Recover well, Mr. Burlew. We'll be waiting on August 31st for your return.

[Eric O'Really]

dang...

my head is spinning. what a twist. and delivered by blackwing, thats even more surprising. :smalleek:
v's familiar shows a completely new side. maybe were about to get grater insight into the ravens character in the future. i guess, it will also reflect subtile aspects of v in many ways, since familiar and master are concidered one beeing in many ways. also his humble attitude seems to show, that v's really about to make his way towards the good end of the alignement pool again.

(well, if anyone is tough enough to get over a well reasoned aversion, its o-chul i guess. :smallbiggrin: )

[Tyrael]

Wow. I had completely forgotten that Raven familiars could speak.

A planet within a planet? My god, it's full of NINJA'D.

"Sharks...why did it have to be sharks?" Now we need someone to draw O-Chul with a hat and whip.

[Puschkin]

As great as everything was, the planet within the planet thing, Blackwing speaking and all ... my favourite part was Durkon and Roy talking strategy and nobody listening to them, especially Belkar sleeping and drooling :smallbiggrin:

[tmacdevitt]

As always, Thank you for the story. We await your return.

[Turkish Delight]

Glad to see the irregularity of the update schedule was explained officially. At least now we know when to expect the next comic, without having to get all impatient expecting it to come up any day now.

Yes. Rest, recharge the batteries, take a breather. Then come back and write some more awesomeness.

Also glad to see the speculation about the raven and the rift answered...and a great deal sooner than I expected!

I was....not expecting what he saw, either. Huh.

[Yendor]

Ooh, bad memories about sharks.

[Cizak]

Aaaaaand... THE END OF A FRIGGIN' STORY ARC! NEW BOOK! NEW BOOK! :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Why is everybody staring at me?

...

*Cough* Awesome comic Rich, can't wait 'til August 31st.

[Radar]

A few unrelated comments:
1. It's good to see V developing hirself and learning something important about life, universe and everything. :smallsmile:

2. Poor O'Chul - it's like Charlie from Gun Shy and watermelons.

3. I do am intrigued with the new information about Snarl. :smallconfused:

[JustRain]

Noooo!!!
No comic until school starts?! I'll die!

Great comic, though, I love the way V changed. And I love Elan and Haley together. I still didn't forgave her for killing Crystal, though.

[KIDS]

I love these yearly breaks with their extra panels and all that. Plus it was heartwarming indeed.

[Puschkin]

Everybody here says that they like V's character development. Am I the only one that thinks it was more interesting and funnier when V was just V? I mean, it's not only that I like characters with edges, it's also that V's former characteristics and attitude was better suited to create great moments of comedy, especially with Belkar. Just imagine Belkar making fun of V and V is all like "Oh, Belkar, try to suppress your primordial animosity towards me and join the accumulated effort of all of us o work as a team of professionals" ... I'd say I liked V better as the lone wolf that placed Explosive Runes all over Belkar's path.


Oh and one question because I am not firm in AD&D rules: Why does O-Chul still have scars? Can't they heal them?

[Fnordal]

Have a nice holiday Rich.

And, nice cliffhanger.

[Lkctgo]

Heh! Old Chul and sharks. What a happy reunion!

[rangermania]

I agree to the idea this strip would be the best of almost last 10... Not only the story arc but the drawings and the clues for the plot line are so great...

As one would say "Ellerine sağlık Rich" :smallbiggrin:

[Holammer]

V's talk with Blackwing was almost touching. It would be awesome if he (she?)... 'the bird' had a more permanent spot on the team.

[Laketh Stadt]

Excellant comic, win on so many levels. Enjoy your time off.

[The Succubus]

I think V's quote "Perhaps we do not know everything we ought to regarding the task we are undertaking" probably applies to an awful lot of situations in D&D.... especially when the DM is grinning. For that matter, a lot of real world situations too :-)

I can just imagine Rich sitting there, a huge evil grin on his face....:

"Mwahahah! They never saw THAT coming and now I'm going to leave them without any updates for 3 WHOLE WEEKS. They'll go mad, I say. MAD!!"

[Sotris]

Haha yes! I totally called the twist regarding the Snarl (along with about 50 other posters). I don't think anyone saw the 'another planet' thing coming, though.

Excellent conclusion!

[Sylian]

It'd be a bit unfair if everyone else got a vacation and you didn't, eh Rich? Take care. Sure, it'll be a bit irritating having to wait such a long time for the update, but eh, I'm sure we can handle it. :smallsmile:

[PCofDoom]

So epic, especially V's last words.

[Jimorian]

It'd be a bit unfair if everyone else got a vacation and you didn't, eh Rich? Take care. Sure, it'll be a bit irritating having to wait such a long time for the update, but eh, I'm sure we can handle it. :smallsmile:

I'll just put in the suggestion that folks head down to the Fan Comics forum down in Arts and Crafts, some pretty darned good stuff to browse through while waiting. :smallsmile:

[Turkish Delight]

Maybe it's the image of the boat gradually disappearing into the distance while the plot is left with so many open ends, but I couldn't help hear the music from the very end of Empire Strikes Back (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KESpT_DHKyM) after reading the strip.

[TheBibliophile]

Woot! Is it just me that thinks the planet within the Snarl is Earth?

Failing that, I think it might be another webcomic universe, that has some link to a third and so on. It'll end with a huge final battle between the heroes of the most awesome webcomics and the villains. I wanna see Shadehawk vs Xykon, that would be completely awesome!

[Trixie]

1. Why they call it a planet inside a planet? That's just a portal, the planet (and the space around it) might be anywhere, actually. Note that the portal is just a hole suspended in midair, not in the ground.

2. So... It turns out that throwing Phylactery there would be actually working in Xykon's favor? :smallamused:

3. Erm, are Redcloak and Xykon so dumb as to not sacrifice one talking summon and send it to examine the portal? If a simple Raven familiar can discover all that during five minutes, then Mr. I'm-Magical-Scientist-Cloak not discovering that for nine months is stretching it.

4. Maybe the ritual Xykon and Lefteye are supposed to perform is a giant version of resurrection capable of reviwing Snarl, as it died long ago from lack of food? :smallamused:

[Dark Faun]

Doesn't look like Earth.

I like how V looks at Mr. Scruffy before summoning his familiar. :smallsmile:

[King of Nowhere]

I was expecting a scene with V peacefully trancing for the end of the book, but this will suffice.
I also liked Elan's statement about Crystal, since it sums up pretty nicely my point of view of the question.

Finally, woe on us! How much time we will spend considering the meaning of the world inside the world? How much before we find out?

[Morquard]

Wow... Seems World 1.0 may have survived after all. Maybe the snarl really just wanted to make it a better place by getting rid of the Gods which he considered the source of evil?

Of course it could be a new world 2.5 that the snarl created while imprisoned.

[Sir_Norbert]

Heh. Two people so far were reminded of 2001. Me, I was reminded of a recent (and as yet still unexplained) plot twist in the DROD series. Can't wait to find out where this one is going.

[The Hop Goblin]

I'm willing to bet it's the first world that was made. The one originally destroyed by the Snarl.

[Morquard]

Oh and I just realised... Blackwing did not -Poof- at the end either

[FlawedParadigm]

Hm. Nothing good can come of this twist, I don't think. Even if that's some perfect, idyllic world within the Stickverse, the Snarl has it hostage. The only two good things to come out of the strip, plot-wise, is that V notices more research may be needed (come on, like Shojo's story was going to tell them EVERYTHING they needed to know?) and Durkon/Roy agreeing that Durkon may need to devise a mass-negative-energy-protection spell.

See you in September.

[Dizcorp]

Nice one Rich, way to end the book and give yourself some time off.

Kick up your feet, relax, and have a good one.

We eagerly await your supercharged return :)

Perhaps the gods are lying about the Snarl's utterly malevolent nature...?

[Dread Cthulhu]

Woah. That was amazing.

[factotum]

Hm. Nothing good can come of this twist, I don't think. Even if that's some perfect, idyllic world within the Stickverse, the Snarl has it hostage.

Assuming the Snarl exists. For all we know, the Snarl was something made up by the Gods to hide something else--what REALLY happened to the first created world, for instance. Think about it: the only beings who could possibly know there even WAS a first world, and what happened to it, would be the Gods, so they must have told the Order of the Scribble about that stuff. Similarly, it was the other Gods who told the Dark One about what was supposedly hidden behind the rifts.

Of course, this implies that the gods have killed at least two people (Soon's wife and the unknown goblin cleric in SoD) purely in order to add verisimilitude to their story...

[Zanaril]

Of course, this implies that the gods have killed at least two people (Soon's wife and the unknown goblin cleric in SoD) purely in order to add verisimilitude to their story...
Killing off a few measly mortals is hardly above them.

[Selene]

Whoa! *boggle*

Take care of yourself, Rich. You know how we worry. :smallwink:


As for the Snarl, didn't Kraagor die fighting it? And didn't Soon see it reach out and grab his wife?

I wonder if the Greek gods are in there...

[Hurkyl]

As for the Snarl, didn't Kraagor die fighting it? And didn't Soon see it reach out and grab his wife?
A god did it.

[Dark Wolf]

I like the idea that the Snarl created it's own planet because perhaps in future we'll have an invasion by anti-god Far Realm like Aberations.

[Topus]

oh god, a great end of the arc :)
it goes deeper into the relations between characters, introduces new misteries about the great plotline, and it's graphically stunning.
So what's more?

and now...must...resist...urge to read...the next strip!
For the sake...of the Giant
:smalltongue:

have a nice rest mr burlew :)

[Trixie]

The only two good things to come out of the strip, plot-wise, is that V notices more research may be needed (come on, like Shojo's story was going to tell them EVERYTHING they needed to know?) and Durkon/Roy agreeing that Durkon may need to devise a mass-negative-energy-protection spell.

Which seems to be out of his league, though, and if if doesn't have a protection from Maximized Meteor Swarms built in there somewhere, is going to be next to useless. :smalltongue:

[Coldwind]

nice strip.

is O-chul going on an adventure without his gear or am I missing something?

[NeonRonin]

Very interesting indeed. I personally am not ready to speculate on the significance of the planet within the planet, as it could mean any number of things. Did the Snarl sort itself out, or is it something far stranger than anyone thinks? At this point, I'd say it's too early to tell, but an excellent way of keeping the readers' interest.

And the familiar speaketh. Always a bonus.

Now if we could just have some character development for Durkon, then that would be really perfect. Not being sarcastic, just feeling he got the short end of the stick(no pun intended) in that department.

[Berserk Monk]

It's weird. Last night I dreamed there was a new OotS comic, and when I wake up, there is.

Nice comic giant. Loved the Indiana Jones reference. Hope the three week break makes you feel better.

[Pronounceable]

...I didn't expect that...

And I was so sure we'd have a glimpse of Lord Tyrinar in this book. Oh well.

[OverdrivePrime]

Wow. Beautiful ending to this book! Rich's art, storytelling and dialogue continue to evolve amazingly.

Hat's off to you, O' DM of the Stick. Enjoy the well-earned rest! :smallsmile:

[Purple_cloack]

I was expecting that, I mean the end of the storyarc.

But NOT the Snarl with the planet within. I guess....is it the planet that Snarl destroyed in the first place?

:o-chul: Not the sharks.

[Blaznak]

Bah! If only Rich could have given us some portent of the future, some, oh, let's call it Foreshadowing for lack of a better word, to grasp upon during his absence. Sigh. I guess its not to be...

(Just kidding, by the way!)

[Raging Gene Ray]

The revelation of the World-In-A-Snarl (TM) was great and all, but I'm just glad to see Blackwing potentially becoming a regular. Of course, now that he's actually present, that means he'll also be hit by any AoE effects.

[Zanaril]

Bah! If only Rich could have given us some portent of the future, some, oh, let's call it Foreshadowing for lack of a better word, to grasp upon during his absence. Sigh. I guess its not to be...

(Just kidding, by the way!)
I think the thing about negative energy is foreshadowing. Not just that they will be using some protection from it, but that they will need that protection, and not just generally. Or possibly, that the lack of a spell that protects all of them will have a high price.

[MoonBeam]

Awesome! Just, awesome!

Thank you, Giant.

[Malfunctioned]

That was almost a completely perfect end to this arc, Giant, you really are a genius :smallbiggrin:.

On a seperate note, did anyone else hear the voice of Wallace Shawn when Blackwing started to speak?

[Neopolis]

Worth the wait... It was oddly heartwarming to see V's familiar talk.

Also, poor O'Chul. :P

[Assassin89]

This comic makes one question the true nature of the Snarl.

Durkon might develop mass death ward, meaning an 8th level spell.

I wonder if O chul has Ichthyophobia.

[hajo]

Nice end of book, with lots of cliffhangers !

I wonder, as V didn't bother to name his familar, if "blackwing" is really the correct name.

[Liwen]

Wow, an unexpected plot twist! And V is learning to get better with people and intelligent animals. I cannot wait for the 1000 and more threads that will pop up until we find out what this planet is all about speculating on what it might be.

Rest well Richard! You deserved a little break. I'd recommend an Europa tour, but something tells me the battery recharge might imply no traveling around the world.

See you in 3 weeks :smallsmile:

[Kobold-Bard]

Wut?? Planet in a planet??

Sweeeeet. :smallbiggrin:

Although I don't know why, but I've taken an immediate dislike to Blackwing. Maybe it's just talking animals in general (the beavers in Narnia do it to) but he's not filling me with the love other characers have.

Ah well, more OotS is always good.

[Fitzclowningham]

If I was the order, I'd want to speak with dead with Shojo and find out what he knows about this planet business.

Also, excellent update, Rich.

[stsasser]

DUN DUN DUN!!!



Thank you! It just wasn't complete without that.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Hmm... When I first saw this, I immediately thought of Warcraft II, Tides of Darkness. Both the idea of an Orc World, and the shape of Hinjo's ship.

Nah, it's probably nothing. No Dark Portals, no Dwarf Blunderbusses, no Night Elves.

(On a side note, Firefox's auto-spellcheck recognizes Elves, but not Orcs...)

[Jagos]

... Damn. That was awesome.

Something about the Snarl is off. He may be pure chaos but now we have to question what he does as a supposed abomination. It seems Kraagor fell into the rift and they sealed it, but other people might be in there as well.

With two gates left, what could happen if they are destroyed? Would the first world engulf the second? There has to be a snarl simply because Soon's wife was killed by it.

But I'm to believe that there's a second reason she "died." More than likely, whatever animals and people went to the rift, they inhabit that new world. Maybe they're reincarnated. But their soul could be used for the new species.

[Squark]

Just...


Wow.



I did not see that one coming.


So is the snarl some sort of fabrication, and this is something else entirely, or what?

[Faramir]

Really nice story arc end.

I love the way that it's made clear that everyone's personality is still the same, although they've all grown in understanding and experience.

V is still wordy, but he is using those words to acknowlege the assistance of someone she had considered beneath him previoiusly. And she is the first one to realize that gathering more information is going to be vital. A subtle but important difference from when he just desired knowledge for knowledge's sake.

Roy is just as task oriented as ever, getting right down to planning the fight. But with a few fights agaist Xykon under his belt he realizes the importance of planning rather than just running in and winging it.

Haley has learned to trust one person, though is still a little worried about it.

Elan has accepted and acknowledged his love for Haley but is not blinded by it.

That we end with V thinking, Elan and Haley snuggling, Belkar snoring, Roy happily planning a battle and Durkon standing by to help where he can just seems right somehow.

And of course, "why did it have to be sharks?". Beautiful :).

[Querzis]

1. Why they call it a planet inside a planet? That's just a portal, the planet (and the space around it) might be anywhere, actually. Note that the portal is just a hole suspended in midair, not in the ground.

A portal that lead to the prison inside the planet. So yeah its a planet within a planet.


2. So... It turns out that throwing Phylactery there would be actually working in Xykon's favor? :smallamused:

Not really, its not because there is a planet in there that the Snarl is not there somewhere.


3. Erm, are Redcloak and Xykon so dumb as to not sacrifice one talking summon and send it to examine the portal? If a simple Raven familiar can discover all that during five minutes, then Mr. I'm-Magical-Scientist-Cloak not discovering that for nine months is stretching it.

No Xykon and Redcloak are smart enough not to wake up the Snarl. The Snarl usually tried to kill everything around the hole in his prison. The fact that he doesnt right now mean hes not aware of their existence, at least thats what Redcloak think. You dont wanna wake up the God Killing Abomination by sending a summon in there just to see what happen.


4. Maybe the ritual Xykon and Lefteye are supposed to perform is a giant version of resurrection capable of reviwing Snarl, as it died long ago from lack of food? :smallamused:

If by long ago you mean 50 years ago. Because the Snarl was definitly still alive 50 years ago.

[Yiuel]

A whole three weeks about what chicken-sparrow have seen in the rift? That will be something to see.

Otherwise, I like this strip, especially the talk between V and hir familiar. And how hir familiar called out V about hir flaws. V's finally getting wiser.

[Godric]

I like the New World concept. Players know about the planes, so if you're really going to strike fear into the hearts of epic level players (and readers who know it all)...the unknown is a great place to start.

Before I was a little ticked that there had been no update this week, but this triple strip made it all better.

[Gwynfrid]

Sure, I noticed the update frequency was down. What's important, however, is that the quality of the strip is a high as ever. Please keep it that way. It doesn't matter if it takes a week for each strip, because it is worth the wait.
Have a nice rest, Rich :smallcool:


Everybody here says that they like V's character development. Am I the only one that thinks it was more interesting and funnier when V was just V? I mean, it's not only that I like characters with edges, it's also that V's former characteristics and attitude was better suited to create great moments of comedy, especially with Belkar. Just imagine Belkar making fun of V and V is all like "Oh, Belkar, try to suppress your primordial animosity towards me and join the accumulated effort of all of us o work as a team of professionals" ... I'd say I liked V better as the lone wolf that placed Explosive Runes all over Belkar's path.


Oh and one question because I am not firm in AD&D rules: Why does O-Chul still have scars? Can't they heal them?

Old V was great fun, but that humor might eventually wear thin, even if it didn't so far. New V can bring new, unexpected kinds of fun.

And, who cares about rules ? Scars are just cool.

[Joerg]

A nice ending for the book. I'm really looking forward to the day when I'll hold it in my hands :smallsmile:

And Rich, have a good rest, you've earned it.

No chance of filler material / guest strips until September?

[Mauve Shirt]

So there's O-Chul's flaw, he's afraid of sharks. :smalltongue:
Interesting comic. Good way to end a book.

[Changeling Soul]

Now THAT is the end of an arc. And some nice master-familiar reconciling.

[motub]

V apologized to Blackwing!!!!!
And they sat in companionable silence together after their conversation... V didn't immediately "dismiss" hir familiar by forgetting about it again!!!

It was also great that Elan and Haley are really going to work out, because they're both working very hard to make sure that things work out between them... Haley dares to be brave enough to tell the truth to the one she loves, and Elan grows up enough to look beyond what a "nice girl" (and of course, the girl that Elan loves must be a "nice" girl) really is and does, and what a "nice guy" (which he of course is and must be) can accept that 'his girl' does, and still remain a nice (good) guy. But of course he still is Elan, and a Bard, and a Dashing Swordsman (which also counts, in this case), so of course hearing about the headbutting an elderly gnome into a coma would help.... clearly, Crystal had to die :smallsmile:.

Nice to get a joke that made me smile from O-chul as he leaves the spotlight. Nice thing is that he's going off with Lien, so we will surely see them again, and hopefully we'll get to see her be just as cool as he is (since she is really cool, but we just haven't had her in a situation where you could see that much).

I love it that Mr. Scruffy really likes Belkar. Who would have thought Belkar was a cat person? Or indeed, an 'any-kind-of-animal' person? I'm also glad that Mr. Scruffy hasn't just disappeared, even in the quiet times.

Loved the furious strategizing of Roy and Durkon. Wonderful to see, since Roy is the leader, and this is the kind of thing that leaders are supposed to do at some point in a campaign :smallsmile:. Also, again reinforces that Roy isn't just a 'dumb fighter'.

And then.... then...
V apologized to Blackwing!!!!!
And acknowledged that Blackwing was only the first of many whom shi owes apologies to.....

And there's a freakin' planet in the Snarl!!!???!! I thought the Order of the Scribble arc indicated that the original planet was destroyed... but obviously not... and it makes sense, now that I think about it.

Clearly if they had unmade the original planet while the Snarl was still "eating" it, the Snarl would have then been free to unmake the rest of creation. So building a prison around it while it was 'eating' makes sense.

Must have been an awful small planet, though :smallsmile:.

Enjoy your rest, Giant, and thanks so much for a fulfilling conclusion to this book! See you at the end of the summer!

[Prowl]

Forming an OotS withdrawal support group to make it through the next few weeks, who's in?

[Yiuel]

So there's O-Chul's flaw, he's afraid of sharks. :smalltongue:
Interesting comic. Good way to end a book.

He's not.

He is however tired of sharks, as he had to escape a few of these while prisoner.

[Trixie]

A portal that lead to the prison inside the planet. So yeah its a planet within a planet.

Except for the little fact that this space is not, in fact, inside a planet.


Not really, its not because there is a planet in there that the Snarl is not there somewhere.

Maybe, but evidence begins to weight heavily against it.


No Xykon and Redcloak are smart enough not to wake up the Snarl. The Snarl usually tried to kill everything around the hole in his prison. The fact that he doesnt right now mean hes not aware of their existence, at least thats what Redcloak think. You dont wanna wake up the God Killing Abomination by sending a summon in there just to see what happen.

Excuse me? Redcloak was perfectly willing to throw a dozen humans into that. Not sending a scrying sensor or a bird here (with negligible chance of doing anything wrong - the birds must fly nearby that portal hundreds of times per day) doesn't make sense, at least with our current knowledge.


If by long ago you mean 50 years ago. Because the Snarl was definitly still alive 50 years ago.

When it comes to food, even periods shorter than month can be a bit too long :smalltongue:

[[TS] Shadow]

Well, there we are: the end of an arc. Many haven't enjoyed large chunks of it, but I think that overall, it was pivitol to the story, as well as fun to read as well. I can't wait for August 31

[sam4books]

Loved the bit about V apologizing to Blackwing, it was really heartwarming, almost made my cry. Looks like V is on the road to healing, maybe even redemption? I hope to see more of the raven familiar as I always loved the talking familiars. At first I thought the planet in the rift was Earth, but now I'm not too sure :/ Meh, my head hurts already xD

Hope you have a good and refreshing time off, it's always good to take a break before you overload yourself with work(I should know, I stress myself out every day o.O) Anywho, it looks like I might need some down time too and try not to think too much about this stuff :)

[Sengoku]

Besides having liked a lot the comic (it seems Blackwing has indeed both a complex persona and a good Int stat), I really appreciated the panel telling that OotS will return on August 31st, as it will save a whole lot of speculations, discussions, and so on :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

[TerrickTerran]

Will not be easy going 3 weeks without it but Rich definitely deserves it. Great comic to end on as well.

[drazen]

Maybe Redcloack was NOT really willing to throw the slaves into the rift (due to the Snarl or possibly knowing something else that we don't), and it was all a big bluff, to force O-Chul (the paladin) into divulging all he knew, to save their existence?

It would explain his frustration with O-Chul ("It's literally against the rules!") ... he was sure his bluff would work, and was angry O-Chul knew nothing, thus rendering the whole episode to be, as Redcloak said... "a waste of time."

[cabbagesquirrel]

aww man, i quit world of warcraft (For good! gave my gold and account away and everything), and now oots is on hiatus too! my poor internet is gonna get such a whooping with tv downloads to keep me occupied!

i love V's new look, and yes it was a good time to finish the book.

[Adeptus]

Oooooh! :vaarsuvius:

Brilliant season changer cliffhanger. Richard has me on the edge of my seat, waiting for more!

[Estelindis]

That was awesome. That's how to conclude a story-arc... :smalleek:

I really did not expect to hear from Blackwing at all. It seemed as if V thought about him while looking at Belkar and Mr Scruffy all curled up - and pop! The exchange they had about V as a master and Blackwing finally speaking in Common was awesome. And the idea that there's a planet inside the rift - the first world, not destroyed after all (maybe?) but sundered from the gods? That's... surprising. I really look forward to seeing where the comic going next. :smallamused:

All the other details ("why did it have to be sharks," Roy & Durkon planning, and Elan and Haley re. Crystal) were also superb. :smallsmile:

[Flickerdart]

Yo dawg, we heard you like planets.

[Waggy]

DUN DUN DUNH! A planet within a planet, thats interesting indeed.

[Badgercloak]

That was just hilarious. And the next comic will be well worth the painful withdrawl syndromes. :smallbiggrin:

[Georlik]

Oh.My.God.
Nietzsche was right!
It looked like Earth. It looked like Earth!

[HZ514]

Holy cow, that was awesome! :smallbiggrin:

[Faleldir]

Another important revelation you might have missed: in this campaign setting, Clerics have to research their spells.

[Turkish Delight]

Hm. Nothing good can come of this twist, I don't think. Even if that's some perfect, idyllic world within the Stickverse, the Snarl has it hostage.

Why would the Snarl have it hostage? If the Snarl is what we thought it was, it shouldn't even exist. The Snarl should have already devoured it.

There is something about the nature of the Snarl we don't understand as of yet. The mindless existence-devouring monstrosity idea is fast fading....which puts a serious crimp in the plans of pretty much any one of the bad guys.

[maxon]

Very good. The following:

1. dun dun DUUUUUUUN!
2. "Sharks - why did it have to be sharks?" As usual, at least recently, O-Chul gets the best lines.
3. I like the fact that the bird can point when he's telling V off. Also, Blackwing looks to have potential with this development and V is clearly changing and learning from his experiences. Yay!
4. Have a good break Giant. I'll be back at the end of August (so long - weep). <I'm not really complaining - get rested, get back to us all refreshed and ready to go.>

[fruityjanitor]

Aaah, the threads will be alive with speculation until the 31st of this month. :smalleek:



More like the threads will be alive with speculation until the end of the comic! :smallbiggrin:

Another great strip and a nice note to end on. It was funny seeing Roy plan on charging headlong into battle against Xykon again (but then after that it looked like he was putting what he learned from his grandpa to good use).

Haley and Elan's conversation was cute, sad, and funny all at the same time. It's good that they're talking about this issue that they disagree about. And any punchline that involves head-butting a gnome is a good one. lol

V and Blackwing's talk was pretty awesome. Nice to see that even Blackwing thinks that V is changing for the better, and that V is treating him as an ally instead of as an object that can be used to scout out dangerous territory. And I'm sure that the planet is going to get speculated about like crazy!

Enjoy your break! Thanks for making this awesome comic!

[jidasfire]

Beautiful finale to an arc that, while it had me worried from time to time, was both necessary and well done. I am, however, extremely glad it's over, the Order is back together, and the plot is moving again.


Kudos to all involved, i.e. Rich Burlew, master storyteller, and see you all in three weeks!

[Tundar]

Wow, V showing some display of INT and compassion instead of his usual self.
Doesn't seem as moving towards evil to me.

Really really nice comic :)

[stevekgoodwin]

Looking forward to the :durkon: nemesis version of book 4.

And book 5... :belkar::durkon::xykon::elan::vaarsuvius::haley: :thog::sabine::mitd: :roy: :nale::roach:

[thepsyker]

You know..
Might the existence of another world provide an out for Belkar, one where instead of dieing he instead becomes trapped on the other world? I can't remember the quotes exactly, and don't have time to look for them at the moment, but it was just a thought that struck me.

[multilis]

DUN DUN DUN!!!

Bet nobody saw that one comming :smallamused:
I did see it as option, Snarl was not interested in outside world which hinted he found something to interest himself in.

"Evolve or die"

[Gnomish Lab]

Another important revelation you might have missed: in this campaign setting, Clerics have to research their spells.

Have to? Why?

I would say that clerics can research new spells, not that they have to reseach spells in order to cast them.

[Squirrel_Token]

When I saw August 31, I nearly had a heart attack. You see, I just started up school again (yeah, it kicks off painfully early), when I'm not used to really being in school until September... so for a second I thought, "wait, he's taking a full YEAR off?!?!!"

:smallsigh:

A very nice, neat wrap up to an awesome story arc, Giant :)

[Omergideon]

My first ever Post. Took me long enough.

Anywho.

Having started reading the comic during this arc I have to say that I am more than a little glad with it. I think that now it is over it is possible to identify the overall theme of it.

The Order has grown up.

Of course Durkon is still who he always was, ever dependable and useful, but everyone else has changed as a result of the story. Roy's experiences in the afterlife have given him a new impetus and direction for his mission, continuing his growth into a proper hero and not merely an adventurer. Belkar has learnt self control, which is a good thing for everyone. Elan really grew up with the whole Therkla thing, and telling Haley was a sign of that. Haley not so much, but her telling Elan about her rival is a sign that she trusts him implicitly. And finally V.

Man, the last strips have shown us really how much V has learnt and grown, exemplified by this last strip. He has learnt humility. The talk with Blackwing, and the earlier one with Durkon, more than anything show that he has discovered how to ask for forgiveness and to value others as well. He really is now a team player.

So, my feeling is that this arc has marked the overall change of the order from a group of adventurers who happen to fight an evil Lich to a group of heroes truly out to save the world.

[malakim2099]

Wow, great conclusion to the arc.

Random notions...


Perhaps the Snarl didn't truly "destroy" the Greek pantheon and the First World after all? Or perhaps it recreated them.

Or... perhaps the Snarl is basically an alien squid? With the Greek gods playing the role of Ozymandias?

Considering how big that rift was over Azure City, it's a little interesting that the Snarl didn't try and grab anyone.

[Smoke_Rulz]

Blackwing speaks! <3

Also the story just got far more interesting... I'm wondering where we're gonna go with this.

[Nerocite]

I wonder what them Linear Guild fellas are up to.

[waterpenguin43]

Blackwing and V make up, I like it:smallsmile:, it just shows V is getting wiser. Also, this made me giggle:
:haley::So you're sure you don't hate me?
:elan::Well, I think so. As long as you're sure she was REALLY bad.
:haley::I once saw Crystal headbutt an elderly gnome woman into a coma.
:elan:That does it, thanks.

[ScreamingGod]

Great "pan out" on the final panels, Rich and cool wave artistry as well.

Incidently, I wonder if they're looking at an alternate OoTS world. .maybe planet-4th ed.

[pflare]

Great ending (of the arc)

[delguidance]

That was sweet!

I've never seen anyone insult V as well as his familiar.

There was new information without being a stereotypical cliff hanger.

Even though I didn't mind the subplots at all I like the sense of moving forward.

Great comic.

[Ridureyu]

Well, I think we can safely say that the book has reached its conclusion.

Onward!

[T-O-E]

Huh. Big strip.

I think I joined the forums the last OotS was put on hiatus.

[Lerky]

It's amazing how OOTS is just like a TV show. When something dramatic and amazing happens the greats new questions and problems...it takes a break. Just like a season finale:smallwink:

[Hrairoo]

i think it is now safe to assume, that shojo's origin story is not entirely correct. either he doesn't know the complete truth, or he was hiding some aspects of the story. i find the first option to be more likely, as shojo truly wanted the oots to succeed in their quest, he risked everything by throwing in his lot with them.

also, i don't think it is safe to assume that xykon and redcloak do not have the same information that the stick do...

[Tubal-Cain]

I wonder if blackwing will stay visible from here on out.

[jdyer]

re: the scars, I got the impression O-Chul wanted to keep them. I don't have the comic offhand, but there's one where the Monster asks if he got any new scars, O-Chul responds no, the Monster says "better luck next time".

I'm also reminded of Belkar wondering if he should drink a healing potion or keep his cool "battle damaged" look.

[badam104172]

'draws deep breath'
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I CAN'T WAIT TILL AUGUST THIRTY FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lord Seth]

That was...interesting. (in a good way)

[JonestheSpy]

Wow. Just wow.

[Xorbon]

Bravo, Giant!

I laughed out loud when the raven responded in Common.

Great strip to end this portion of the story. It wrapped things up nicely.

[Elfin]

Awesome.
Very awesome.

[mistformsquirrl]

<O.O> Holy craps!

This certainly explains the Snarl not attempting to reach through the rift... but... <o.@> what does this mean? I mean there are a lot of plausible explanations using what we do know, but it could also be something totally new >.<

Rest well Rich <^_^>b take your time man; it's worth waiting for, and ya gotta take care of yourself anyway <^.^>m

[factotum]

You know..
Might the existence of another world provide an out for Belkar, one where instead of dieing he instead becomes trapped on the other world? I can't remember the quotes exactly, and don't have time to look for them at the moment, but it was just a thought that struck me.

Not unless Belkar can go to this other world and still be alive despite having drawn his last ever breath, amongst other things.

[thepsyker]

Not unless Belkar can go to this other world and still be alive despite having drawn his last ever breath, amongst other things.That's what I was trying to remember, did the oracle say he would draw his last breath or his last breath in this world? Thinking about it it must have been the former or people would have brought up the other planes option a while ago. Oh, well it was just a random thought that popped into my head.

[sealemon]

Nice. Way to keep the forums busy while you're away! :)

This is hands down my favorite web-comic.

Hope you feel better soon, Rich.

[DigoDragon]

And now for something completely different... a planet, within a planet.

[HandofShadows]

Excellent!

[waterpenguin43]

<O.O> Holy craps!

This certainly explains the Snarl not attempting to reach through the rift... but... <o.@> what does this mean? I mean there are a lot of plausible explanations using what we do know, but it could also be something totally new >.<

Rest well Rich <^_^>b take your time man; it's worth waiting for, and ya gotta take care of yourself anyway <^.^>m

My guess is that Snarl rebuilt the world he destroyed, and it apperently is planning something. Maybe he wanted to make the world completely formed from the deities arguments, or maybe he is peaceful, but who knows? (I certainly don't.....)

[thepsyker]

You know it feels kind of weird to point this out, but I just realized shouldn't the wake of the boat in the last panel be V shaped instead of a straight line?

[Kiren]

He was looking at earth, its a rip in the forth wall.

[Athaniar]

Holy unforseen twists, Batman!

The new arc will be awesome. Concentrated awesome. Of that I am sure. Take your time, Giant.

As for the planet, I think it is the previous reality. And where do the gods of the east (I think) fit in all this? I foresee a great many speculation threads.

[Fawkes]

It's a nice sendoff, Rich.

I look forward to seeing you and the Order again in a few weeks.

[bird2234]

Ok, time for some serious thoughtful contemplation...

Might that be the old world, which was never destroyed? Devoured, but that doesn't mean destroyed.

[Shadowbane]

That was a great ending there, love it.

[Carteeg_Struve]

There are way too many possibilities to theorize at this point in regards to the planet.

But I do hope Blackwing is now a permanent member of the Order. It will be the first major sign that V has gone through massive character development. If Blackwing poofs, V is doomed.

Oh and soundtrack-wise:

Yes, the pan-back theme is certainly the same music from the end of 'Empire Strikes Back', and for the shot of the planet, you need the instrumental portion of Battlestar Galactica's version of 'All Along The Watchtower'. :smallbiggrin:



And Rich, you rock at storytelling. When I heard the word 'hiatus' I was expecting the break to be until something like late September or October. The end of the month is nothing for us. Enjoy yourself. You more than deserve it.

[JonestheSpy]

He was looking at earth, its a rip in the forth wall.


As has already been pointed out, the planet doesn't look anything like Earth (except that it's blue and green, which would be true of all planets with Earth-like conditions).

[David Argall]

I think I get it, though: the Snarl used to be the threads that created the first world, so over time it may have sorted itself out.
Right now we know virtually zero, so any of a zillion possibilities could be the case. However, from what we are told, the Snarl and World One were different entities.



one question because I am not firm in AD&D rules: Why does O-Chul still have scars? Can't they heal them?
Presumably yes. However there is very little reason to have rules for scars in a game. So any presence of scars is due to player or DM whim.
Perhaps the most common rationalization is that healing spells restore your image of yourself, and over time any scar becomes part of your image, making it not curable by most healing magic. Since O-Chul was a fighter for many years, and could have gotten injured far away from any magical curing, he could thus end up with a scar that would be very hard to cure, and presumably not worth the bother.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Holy cow, one of THE MOST "Dun Dun Dunnnnnnnh" moments in OOTS, ever! Punctuated by the dramatic pause. And Rich has a good excuse for taking a breather....brilliant. So brilliant.

I love this strip.

[Bibliomancer]

Right now we know virtually zero, so any of a zillion possibilities could be the case. However, from what we are told, the Snarl and World One were different entities.

Perhaps the Snarl did not consume the First World, merely engulfing it to hide it from the meddling gods.

[Dreganastra]

I just wanna say that, that was beautiful.

The giant has kept me entertained when the television and video games lost their flair, and 672 reaffirmed why that is.

THANK YOU GIANT!!!

[BlueWizard]

Excellent! Excellent! Excellent! Excellent!

[Aldrakan]

Spoilers for SoD
Well, this could royally screw up Redcloak's plan.
Give the goblins more rights or I'll unleash the power of...huh.. didn't see that coming.
Although it does provide another potential resolution to the goblin problem if there's a whole new world they could go live on.

[Trebuchet]

Maybe now, when Blackwing started speaking in Common, we will finally find out what it asked the Oracle about and what is the ginkgo bilboa (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) for ;-)

Ginkgo biloba is generally considered a good aid to memory.* I assumed the question was, "How can I get Vaarsuvius to remember I exist?"

*This comment is not intended to diagnose, cure, treat, or prevent any diseases.

[JazzManJim]

Nice, Rich. Very, very nice.

[TheNovak]

Well, hell, that was kinda unexpected! Good stuff, Rich; I can almost picture the evil glee that must've been building up in you over the last few months, like a DM that can't wait to tell his players that the MacGuffin they're carrying is the reason for all their problems. Excellent twist.

As for the Snarlworld, I think it has something to do with World 1.0, but I don't think that's exactly what it is. Note the massive ice caps; that planet is in the middle of an ice age. My current theory is that the Greek gods weren't destroyed so much as absorbed, and maybe they're trying to contain the Snarl themselves by building a secondary prison out of the thing's inner threads. And hey, maybe every soul that the Snarl's destroyed has actually been plunked down on the Snarlworld.

I also like the idea of the Snarl actually just being a big, celestial cover-up for the real reason World 1.0 went boom, at least from a narrative standpoint; it would make for a really cool story. However, I don't think that's the direction Rich will take, because the strip hasn't payed a whole lot of attention to the gods, or casting suspicious light on them, or anything like that; he's a good enough writer that if he had been building up to this kind of twist, seeds would have been planted long ago and would resonate when the theory is considered.

But hey, no matter what we all guess, it's going to be wrong. Rich is evil like that.

[TigerHunter]

What's that giant purple bonfire in the first panel?

[Morty]

What's that giant purple bonfire in the first panel?

I think it's Celia going back to her home plane.
And yes, that was a Twist with a capital T. It pretty much completely challenges most of our assumptions about the story. I mean, up until now, it looked like the typical "save the world" deal, with some ambiguity in form of Redcloak and the welfare of the goblin people as well as general chiche-breaking. But now? Anything might happen. And that's awesome.

[Murdim]

I mean, up until now, it looked like the typical "save the world" deal, with some ambiguity in form of Redcloak and the welfare of the goblin people as well as general chiche-breaking. But now? Anything might happen. And that's awesome.Now ? Rich just need to appropriately deconstruct the "Save both worlds" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SaveBothWorlds) cliché.

[TooManySecrets]

Chance that the planet is Earth: 0.40%
Chance that we will be lead to believe that the planet is Earth: 99.98%

[dmorenus]

Huh. Stars it is, I guess. It looked for all the world like a snow globe to me.

"I've got it! We're actually living on the surface of some giant alien race's tchotchke!" :smalltongue:

[David Argall]

Perhaps the Snarl did not consume the First World, merely engulfing it to hide it from the meddling gods.

Destroying the world, and then getting bored enough to create your own, makes sense, given what we know and think we know. [Recall here that the Snarl is born of godly anger, which means it may have other godly emotions and desires, such as planet building.] But why would it be hiding a planet? And why would the gods get the wrong idea?

[Laws of Chaos]

I dont know if it's so much a "planet with in the planet" as much as it is a rip in space. It may be an entirely different dimension. Actually it may be their own planet, just seen from a different place and time than they are in. No matter what, I am not-so-patiently awaiting 31 Aug (seems so far away:smallfrown:). Giant: I admire your tenacity and your ability to keep us all guessing.

[pendell]

*Claps madly*

AWESOME ending.

A planet ... within a planet?

No, we DON"T know enough about the task at hand. Clearly the Snarl is NOT simply a mindless force of destruction. If it is able to support such a place ..

wow. There's just too much here to even speculate on. I agree with V. We need to know more. A LOT MORE.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Lamech]

Now this is interesting. What is the snarl up too. Hmm... I wonder if it wants revenge on the people who put it there.

Anyway SoD
That pretty much settles it. Unless the Snarl desires revenge the plan is shot to hell.

[El_Chupachichis]

Destroying the world, and then getting bored enough to create your own, makes sense, given what we know and think we know. [Recall here that the Snarl is born of godly anger, which means it may have other godly emotions and desires, such as planet building.] But why would it be hiding a planet? And why would the gods get the wrong idea?

I'm not sure that "hiding" is the right term. This is the Snarl's prison, and there's no actual entity to check on the Snarl all these years, so there's no actual "hiding" take place.

However,

I'd suspect that the Snarl consumed World 1.0 during the initial fight, then after being imprisoned, took the interim centuries (millenia?) to examine the remnants of the first creation and learn from it, to see if there was a way to either "breakout" from the prison or at least have something to do.

I'd actually go so far as to suggest that the Snarl somehow evolved sentience, and is actually busy with other Godlike tasks. I know if I was trapped in the same situation, with the same powers, I'd be probably doing just that, to keep myself from going insane with boredom. Whether that means the threat is actually gone depends on whether the Snarl has desire for Vengance.

[Mannryu]

Awesome comic! Can't wait to see how will it continue!
And to Rich, have a good vacation time. You deserve it :smallbiggrin:

[Lord Seth]

Chance that the planet is Earth: 0.40%
Chance that we will be lead to believe that the planet is Earth: 99.98%It didn't even really look like Earth. While I did think Earth the first time I saw the planet, looking closer shows the continents aren't anything like Earth at all. That would be a pretty lame twist anyway, as I don't think the "real world" and the comic should intersect (except in cases of tributes, e.g. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson).

[texascarl]

Sweet!

See you in a few weeks. Enjoy the downtime.

[redzimmer]

Enjoy your break Rich, you really deserve it.

[Dr. Roboto]

Yaay character development!
One request, though... we need a new smiley for the new V.

Enjoy the downtime.

[Tobimaro]

Wow. Now that is a way to end a book. With much speculation.

Enjoy your break, Rich. The boards will be speculating until you return. And now I do not have to worry about missing updates while I judge LFR games at GenCon. :smallcool:

[DnDgeek13]

and here we thought we had already seen the end of the story arc.

[El_Chupachichis]

It didn't even really look like Earth. While I did think Earth the first time I saw the planet, looking closer shows the continents aren't anything like Earth at all. That would be a pretty lame twist anyway, as I don't think the "real world" and the comic should intersect (except in cases of tributes, e.g. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson).

This.

The worst way for any series set in a non-Earth-based universe to "Jump the Shark" is to have a crossover to a visit to earth.

Most turn out like the original Battlestar Galactica, very few pull it off like Farscape or (after a fashion) Erfworld.

I doubt it's any other familiar universe, for the same reason.

[Rotipher]

re: the scars, I got the impression O-Chul wanted to keep them. I don't have the comic offhand, but there's one where the Monster asks if he got any new scars, O-Chul responds no, the Monster says "better luck next time".

It's probably too late to remove those scars anyway, as the wounds that caused them have long since healed naturally. Curative spells heal injuries, they don't perform cosmetic surgery months after the original injury has scarred over.

[Rotipher]

V's talk with Blackwing was almost touching. It would be awesome if he (she?)... 'the bird' had a more permanent spot on the team.

Ah HA! Rich did have an ulterior motive for changing V's hairstyle: the ponytail leaves more room on vir shoulder for Blackwing to perch! Everything is connected! There are no coincidences!


Okay, I'll go lie down now. :smallredface:

[GreatWyrmGold]

:eek:
And :eek: again.

Also, in the immortal words of Belkar Bitterleak:
"So...many...questions..."

[Mugen Nightgale]

OMG, my brain just exploded.

Freaking awesome.

[Fayd]

We tend to forget that while the Snarl was formed of diefic frustration...it was also formed of creation. The things destroyed by the Snarl weren't "destroyed"...they were assimilated into the threads that made it. Over time...something has worked the threads out. It may be that there IS no Snarl anymore. That'd be a twist.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Quite often, the comic is just FREAKING AWESOME.

This is one of those times...

[Forbiddenwar]

There are way too many possibilities to theorize at this point in regards to the planet.

But I do hope Blackwing is now a permanent member of the Order. It will be the first major sign that V has gone through massive character development. If Blackwing poofs, V is doomed.


The second sign of a major change in V is here as well. with V openly stating that she doesn't know as much she should about the current situation. How many times have we heard V say "I don't know enough"? That declaration shows humility, another trait I previously would not associated with V. (like Belkar and kindness)
V has come through fire and has been shaped well by it.

Amazing comic. Amazing end to an amazing 4th book. Can't wait to buy it so I can read the whole thing in one sitting, without killing my computer and eyes.

[Sijo]

And (finally!) the end of the current book happens! (Not that I was eager to see it end, just that many of the recent strips could have served as the ending as well.) I must admit however, than unlike other posters I'm underwhelmed by the "revelation" about The Snarl; it was completely out of the left field, and worse, it throws way too much into question. Not the way I like a story chapter to end.

Oh, well, at least it had its funny moments (O'Chul's reaction to the Holy Mount shark), no comments from Belkar (always a plus :smallwink:) and the interesting conversation between V and his familiar. I agree that this is a signal that he has changed for the better.

Eagerly awaiting the next "book!"

[Richard J.]

Holy Haruhi what a shock! Looks like the god killing abomination has been busy. Either the Snarl has remade the world it unmade or made its own. Now, the question of the Snarl itself looms. Were the people who were killed trying to go through before killed by the Snarl, the forces separating the two worlds or the denizens of the "planet within the planet."

:vaarsuvius: "Perhaps. . . Perhaps we do not know everything we ought to regarding the task we are undertaking".

Indeed V.

Roy's got a master plan for taking on :xykon: but somehow I doubt it is going to work at all. Relying on spells and buffs to take the Lich down is asking for trouble in my opinion. Mr. Spell-my-name-with-an-X is getting serious and not even O-Chul's list will make winning easy. (Speaking of the man himself, what exactly is he up to going on the jumping shark ride?)

:belkar: "Grkzzzzzz."

Shook my head in bemusement. Only Belkar could do that at a time like this.

Blackwing talking is great too. Considering how insufferable V has been, it's not surprising the bird didn't WANT to talk to him/her.

Waiting for the return will be difficult.

[Rhuna_Coppermane]

DUN DUN DUN!!!

Bet nobody saw that one coming :smallamused:

I sure didn't, and... wow.

Also, nice continued character development for Vaarsuvius.

[Wippit Guud]

So... there's a planet... that looks like Earth...

... in the middle of another planet...



It's a... Middle... Earth...

[Zevox]

Well.

Of all the explanations I mentally came up with for Blackwing's weird reaction to the rift, this was not one of them. Not even close to being on the radar.

So, wow, the Giant can still throw quite a curveball when he wants. Awesome.

Though it pretty much throws everything we've been told about the Snarl into question, since the most logical conclusion is that that is the original world it was said to have destroyed.

So many questions... well, Rich certainly gave us a rich source of discussion and speculation to tide us over for the month.

Zevox

[The Pale King]

I'm going to speculate on that planet the whole hiatus. Can't wait for August 31. Enjoy your break Rich. I also have a feeling that all of the theories on the planet are wrong.

One thing that's bothering me. Is Vaarsuvius going to tell her teammates about the planet? She has no real reason to keep it a secret.

[Volkov]

I'm back from the hospital, I had a life threatening case of hypotension induced seizures, so I had to be rushed to the emergency room.

Any way, the planet seems to be in an ice age, that much ice covering a planet is usually a sign of such.

[Estelindis]

...now I really want to know what this book of strips is going to be called in its printed form. :smallredface:

[Haggis]

(Speaking of the man himself, what exactly is he up to going on the jumping shark ride?)

A couple of comics ago it was said that he and lien were heading to the other gate to scout it out.

The thing that I hit me is that it seems Blackwing chose to pop up and to try and toss the ph-what-you-call-it-y into the rift. I always assumed V summoned him, but from the way V spoke it seems I was wrong.

[goodyarn]

Great end to the arc!

Especially loved V's pained look to Belkar and Mr. Scruffly. Nothing like realizing that a psychopath has more friends than you to make you see that you've hit bottom. I am ready to empathize with V again.

Rest well, Giant.

[HOLEkevin]

Bye for now, Order of the Stick! We'll be here when you get back!

[WristWatchMafia]

I registered just to say nice work author-guy! Your comic is really good, and I like the dramatic tone its taken.

Looking forward to the next arc (hopefully with more OoTs and less other peeps).

Sincerely,
Me

[liq]

I like the subtlety of V noticing that even Belkar had been able to bond with his animal companion better than V had himself. And how his new-found humbleness led to him gaining the all-important knowledge that his arrogant former self would have never learned. True seekers of knowledge should never be arrogant, because the most important knowledge can be gained from the humblest sources.

Plus, looking back, the way the setup for this was woven into the throne room fight sequence makes that even more awesome. This is epic-level storytelling.

Enjoy your well-earned rest, Rich.

[The Tygre]

Whoa... It's unoriginal of me to say 'I didin't see that coming', but... I really didn't. Time to gird our loins for the new wave of debate threads. Good luck on the vacation; refueling the tanks is just the thing any author needs after a story arc like that.

[Tubal-Cain]

The thing that I hit me is that it seems Blackwing chose to pop up and to try and toss the ph-what-you-call-it-y into the rift. I always assumed V summoned him, but from the way V spoke it seems I was wrong.

Technically, Blackwing doesn't actually "pop". He's always at V's side. The pop we see is a visual cue that V has remembered Blackwing's existence (Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0154.html), panel 4).

[David Argall]

Assuming the Snarl exists. For all we know, the Snarl was something made up by the Gods to hide something else--what REALLY happened to the first created world, for instance. Think about it: the only beings who could possibly know there even WAS a first world, and what happened to it, would be the Gods, so they must have told the Order of the Scribble about that stuff.
But now we must come up for a reason for the gods to lie, to mere mortals they can make and unmake at will. It's a little difficult to see why they would bother.


Similarly, it was the other Gods who told the Dark One about what was supposedly hidden behind the rifts.

And this means the same lie must be told by all the gods. It is really easy to get your story tangled.
Much easier to think the gods are more or less truthful and what we see is the story as they see it.

[Cryssandra]

Aww man.... Wat to leave us hanging... August 31st!!!! Aww man I cannot wait!

[Tubal-Cain]

I've already caught myself about to try checking for updates several times today.

[Lynch Bait]

"My Recent Thought Process"

1. :smile: Yay!! A new Order of the Stick is up!!

2. *Reads* :biggrin:

3. "The Order of the Stick will return August 31st."

4. :frown:

The comic was great. Loved the back and forth between Elan and Haley. Laughed hard at the Raven's "No, I said speaking to YOU in common was demeaning." :smallconfused:'d at the planet within the planet (Also noticed the rather large glaciers at the north pole). And then I cried at the end.

Having said that, an Artist without a break is not a good artist. Take as much time as you need to get the muse back.

[factotum]

I must admit however, than unlike other posters I'm underwhelmed by the "revelation" about The Snarl; it was completely out of the left field

I disagree. This was foreshadowed at least as far back as when Redcloak commented that the Snarl had been unusually quiet when he was threatening to throw the prisoners into the rift to get O-Chul to talk--we knew SOMETHING was up back then, we just didn't know what!


And this means the same lie must be told by all the gods. It is really easy to get your story tangled.
Much easier to think the gods are more or less truthful and what we see is the story as they see it.

It's not that hard to keep your story straight if you've only told it to a couple of entities (The Order of the Scribble and the Dark One in this case), especially if you've had a thousand years or more to think it up. Besides, it's not like there are hundreds of gods...from the looks of it there are maybe 20-30 at most, so again, it's easier to keep the story straight.

[TamLin]

Please tell me that's not supposed to be the "real" world in there and that the conclusion of the comic isn't going to involve some cheesy, ham-handed (mmm, ham and cheese...) story about the characters traveling outside of the "game world" to fix things? Please tell me we're not going that route?

[THE_BIG_CHEESE]

I think it's quite possibly an illusion perpetrated by The Snarl. Ravens, even as familiars, can't have a decent will save against something that powerful, so it just shoed the raven another planet, knowing that someone would be told about it by the raven. Then, when they go through a gate saying oh cool, let's visit another planet, yeah think of the adventures, they get ka-snarled (it's a term i'm trying to coin for when The Snarl kills someone). Now there goes the biggest opposition to Xykon (that we know of), Xykon's little ritual will probably free The Snarl, which The Snarl would know and he wouldn't, and there we go, end of the world all over again. Or maybe the raven saw The Snarl ready to ka-snarl the next thing that came in there, and was like oh hey this elf always gives me crap, I'll show him, I'll tell him there's a planet there, then he'll go in and get all messed up and such.

But in all seriousness, I think it's also very possible that someone, either the "Order of the Scribble" or everyone who believed the gates story has been lied to quite excellently. Either way, seemed like there was a whole bunch of clouds on that "inner planet".

[TamLin]

Hmm. Well, I seem to be less pleased with this story than most (felt like filler much of the time, and most of the "archs" seemed artificial and rushed. Sorry, just my opinion), but I will compliment the fine work done in finally doing something interesting with V. Although the whole "Here's where I make a sorrowful chastised speech to my allies to show how much I've grown" thing is pretty trite, the events of the story were sufficient to make it believable that V would indeed have been put through enough of an emotional wringer to have changed. How V is handled in the next (final?) story and what the long-term effects of this experience are will probably reveal a lot about what kind of story this ever more ambiguous comic wants to be.

[Puns de León]

Fabulous art in this last one. The sails, the sunset, the purple splendour if the rift. The gradation in the colouring of the sunset and the rift looks great.



And this means the same lie must be told by all the gods. It is really easy to get your story tangled.
Much easier to think the gods are more or less truthful and what we see is the story as they see it.

All the Southern Gods. We know of the Snarl and the Gates through Shojo and the Sapphire Guard alone, who presumably learned of it from their gods. If things are not as they seem (that is, as told in the Crayons of Time), it could mean that the Southern Pantheon knows something the others do not and/or is scheming. Perhaps it's just an elaborate excuse for humans, specifically paladins of the Sapphire Guard, to kill goblins.

[David Argall]

is O-chul going on an adventure without his gear or am I missing something?

The characters of OOTS, like many comics and games, use hammerspace [so named because a primary use is for any female character to pull out a hammer to clobber an overly eager male character], where backpacks, blankets, pillow, spare weapons, misc tools, etc, etc are invisibly kept.
O-Chul and Lien are properly visualized as each wearing 100 lb packs of supplies of various sorts. These are generally too much trouble to draw, and thus are not.



Excuse me? Redcloak was perfectly willing to throw a dozen humans into that. Not sending a scrying sensor or a bird here (with negligible chance of doing anything wrong - the birds must fly nearby that portal hundreds of times per day) doesn't make sense, at least with our current knowledge.

Definitely odd. Still, when you come down to it, the Snarl is not important to Redcloak. He just needs something that will scare the gods. Whether the Snarl exists or not makes no difference. If he stirs up the Snarl, he loses his weapon. If he finds there is no Snarl, he also ruins his situation. Leaving it alone seems wise. And so his threat to O-Chul may have been a bluff.
Still, Redcloak is geek enough to at least want a peek, but he hasn't done so...


When it comes to food, even periods shorter than month can be a bit too long
The Snarl seems to have lasted 1500 years without a bite. It remains odd that it finally starved to death in the last 50.



Another important revelation you might have missed: in this campaign setting, Clerics have to research their spells.
No, they can research spells, which they can in most games. Generally it is deemed not worth the bother.

[SPoD]

OK, to anyone proposing a "The Snarl doesn't exist" theory, it's really hard to support due to the fact that the Order of the Scribble believes in it--because they witnessed it reaching through the Rifts. The Snarl may not be exactly as it was presented in stories, but it is not nonexistant. Otherwise, what killed Soon's wife? The other members of the Scribble know that story, and as a paladin, Soon wouldn't have lied about it to them. So we must conclude that Soon saw something reach out from the rift, something consistent with his later observations when Kraagor died.

And before anyone tells me that Shojo was lying about those scenes, I would point out that in Start of Darkness, Lirian talks about the Snarl with her elven associates and how they can't allow Xykon to free it. It's not a story or a flashback, we're seeing the scene happen. So Lirian at least believes in the Snarl's existence, which gives us every reason to think the rest of the Scribblers did, too.

[Demiurge]

Guys... What if that planet inside the planet has its own Snarl, with another planet inside it?

Also, Planet Snarl seems to have a serious case of ice age.

[Selene]

Maybe the snarl is off somewhere setting up a tea party in case MitD stops by.

[Joerg]

OK, to anyone proposing a "The Snarl doesn't exist" theory, it's really hard to support due to the fact that the Order of the Scribble believes in it--because they witnessed it reaching through the Rifts. The Snarl may not be exactly as it was presented in stories, but it is not nonexistant. Otherwise, what killed Soon's wife? The other members of the Scribble know that story, and as a paladin, Soon wouldn't have lied about it to them. So we must conclude that Soon saw something reach out from the rift, something consistent with his later observations when Kraagor died.


We only know about that from Shojo in a narrative. We don't even actually know if Shojo said "the Snarl reached out a claw and impaled Soon's wife". And Shojo probably knew the story from his father, who had it from Soon. So it could very well be that Soon said "Mijung was suddenly killed when she examined the rift", and Shojo later embellished that as "the Snarl suddenly killed Mijung when she examined the rift" and those who listened to his story visualized that as a claw reaching out from the rift.



And before anyone tells me that Shojo was lying about those scenes, I would point out that in Start of Darkness, Lirian talks about the Snarl with her elven associates and how they can't allow Xykon to free it. It's not a story or a flashback, we're seeing the scene happen. So Lirian at least believes in the Snarl's existence, which gives us every reason to think the rest of the Scribblers did, too.

They must have heard about it from their gods, who could have lied. Of course they would believe what their gods say.

I'm not actually sure whether a Lawful god can lie, but if he can't, he could at least keep silent and let another god talk.

[Aaron]

:smalleek:...wow!!!... Didn't see that coming.

And that's the end of the story arc.

[mec]

I'm really happy to see V show some respect to Blackwing.

Also happy to see Haley grow up some and share her secrets with Elan (if not the rest of the party, yet).

I'm wondering about O-Chul and Lien. They are riding a shark with a speed of 60 feet (6 mph). Durkon could have cast Wind Walk on himself, O-Chul, and Lien, giving them a speed of 600 feet (60 mph) for many hours.

[FoE]

I'm wondering about O-Chul and Lien. They are riding a shark with a speed of 60 feet (6 mph). Durkon could have cast Wind Walk on himself, O-Chul, and Lien, giving them a speed of 600 feet (60 mph) for many hours.

Perhaps. But it was funnier and more awesome this way.

[Tova]

A very nice ending to the next book (assuming that's what it will be). I can't wait to get my mitts on it.

Enjoy a very well-earned break, Rich.

[ScIaDrd]

Great comic really, loved it, Really good on multiple levels.
firstly : O-Chul and the shark:smallbiggrin:...Wait I got it now. Poor guy:smallsigh: But an excellent thhrowback too.
Secondly,Roy planning,and the headbutting-a-gnome joke
made me laugh. really hard
Thirdly Nice to see V show some respect for Blackwing. I ´d love to see that unfortunate accident that made the raven embrassed to speak , but I´m afraid it will stay forever hiidden in the mists of noodly- faux pas misshaps
Lastly The world in a world, or maybe world in a demiplane in a world:smallconfused: That´s just... all I can say is DUN DUN DUN!Or a Bizzaro world... nah, that would be too cliché.

Enjoy your break Rich. You´ve definetely earned it.
Sincerely, Me.

[ref]

We could be looking at the new planet near the pole, so the polar ice is smaller than this appears. (Reinforced because the southern cap is way smaller)

[Morgan Wick]

When I first read it I thought Elan's "she" was referring to Therkla. And I got all excited about theories about Elan not being honest about being honest and what this will mean if Haley starts to learn the truth.

Even misinterpretations can lead to mucho speculation in OOTS world.

[whitelaughter]

interesting...

a couple of thoughts:

Blackwing was holding Xykon's phylactery while looking into the rift. Given Xkyon has covered it with protection spells, maybe that's the only reason Blackwing survived to report back what was inside? That would explain why Redcloak didn't see anything. (Or possibly Redcloak knows that the world is in there, and just hasn't seen any need to engage in exposition).

The snarl was created from the squabbles between the gods over what the world would be like. Maybe it created a world composed of the ideas that lost out?
Of course if world and anti-world come into contact....

[zipnab]

Please please oh pretty please tell me modern earth will not appear in the comic. It already ruined me one good anime series. I mean, it was good till modern earth came one episode to the end, and then it manufactured no amount of sense. The sense machine was broken.

[Volkov]

Please please oh pretty please tell me modern earth will not appear in the comic. It already ruined me one good anime series. I mean, it was good till modern earth came one episode to the end, and then it manufactured no amount of sense. The sense machine was broken.
It can't be earth, the continents are in the wrong positions and only one looks vaguely earth like.

[banjo1985]

And so the story arc ends, and things can roll on to the next big reveal. I think there'll be more than enough discussion during the three week hiatus about that second world to make up for the break.

[khourytamarisk]

I'm just wondering if Snarl isn't a guardian instead of a prisoner.

After all, if the Gods did something horrendous or were simply trying to hide a truth, wouldn't they find a way of putting the largest possible obstacle in the way and then build up the story of its horror to prevent people from poking about too much?

Of course, this just makes me wonder if Snarl and tMitD have similar progressions with divergent ends?

Can't wait for the next book. Enjoy your vacation!

Edit: Also, I think that V remembered about Blackwing after noticing Belkar and Mr. Scruffy, in an "Oh, hey, I've got an animal companion, too... And I should probably thank them for the whole Rift/Phylactery thing and not abandoning me (necessitating a loss of XP)." Since the reminder didn't come at someone else's prompting, there was no need for the -POP- sound effect.

[spargel]

Anyone have any ideas about why it looks like the planet is attracting snow? It looks like a large chunk of the planet is frozen or something.

[Sijo]

Theory that just occurred to me:

What if The Snarl doesn't disintegrate things, but only transports them to another universe? It is, after all, a literal hole in space. It might *look* to others like it was devouring them, but everything it "ate" might still exist inside it- including the Pantheon of Greek Gods, who, upon realizing they now had a universe of their own to play with, decided to create their own world.

I hope Rich doesn't take too long to explain this (or at least give us more clues.)

[Forbiddenwar]

Theory that just occurred to me:

What if The Snarl doesn't disintegrate things, but only transports them to another universe? It is, after all, a literal hole in space. It might *look* to others like it was devouring them, but everything it "ate" might still exist inside it- including the Pantheon of Greek Gods, who, upon realizing they now had a universe of their own to play with, decided to create their own world.

I hope Rich doesn't take too long to explain this (or at least give us more clues.)

It would explain why no one can be rezzed when encountering the snarl, they aren't really dead.

[zarakstan]

Woah O.o Just read it quiet cool, but now we have to wait for the 31st . . . :smallmad:

[factotum]

I'm wondering about O-Chul and Lien. They are riding a shark with a speed of 60 feet (6 mph). Durkon could have cast Wind Walk on himself, O-Chul, and Lien, giving them a speed of 600 feet (60 mph) for many hours.

Durkon is not going to the same place that Lien and O-Chul are. Besides, it's a holy paladin shark--it might be faster than a regular one.

[Forbiddenwar]

Durkon is not going to the same place that Lien and O-Chul are. Besides, it's a holy paladin shark--it might be faster than a regular one.

Yes, according to D&D, paladin mounts have Improved Speed. They are faster.

[drazen]

To the person upthread who said the planet in the rift was in an ice age -- I think those were actually just clouds. They look transparent over the ocean, not like an ice cap. I had the same thought as you, originally, until I looked at it more closely.

[hamishspence]

only problem with that theory- we can see small amounts of wispy cloud, in both this pic, and the Familicide one- and those clouds don't look the same.

[spargel]

That's not really what clouds are supposed to look like.

[hamishspence]

The wispy ones, or the smoothly edged, translucent objects over the poles?

[spargel]

The wispy ones, or the smoothly edged, translucent objects over the poles?

The ones over the poles.

[hamishspence]

Yes- they may not look like clouds, but they are a bit more translucent than you would expect for ice.

Maybe, if its a magic world, the ice is solid and clear, rather than compressed snow, and looks translucent because its quite thick?

Or it could just be artistic licence.

[jidasfire]

I don't think this new revelation means everything we know is a lie. From a storytelling perspective, that's a copout. What I think it does mean is that things have changed. We know the Snarl was born of chaos and rage and destruction, but we also know it spent a lot of time growing and evolving. We know that the Snarl has been imprisoned for the better part of sixty years. We also know that even though some of the rifts have come back, the Snarl hasn't attacked in the way it used to. Finally, now we know the rifts seem to lead to another planet. Maybe the order imposed on the Snarl by the gates caused it to change somehow. Maybe it learned that it could not merely destroy, but also create. I guess it's as likely or unlikely as anything else, but I like that idea better than the notion that the entire metaplot we've been following is untrue and thus a waste of our time.

[SPoD]

I don't think this new revelation means everything we know is a lie. From a storytelling perspective, that's a copout. What I think it does mean is that things have changed. We know the Snarl was born of chaos and rage and destruction, but we also know it spent a lot of time growing and evolving. We know that the Snarl has been imprisoned for the better part of sixty years. We also know that even though some of the rifts have come back, the Snarl hasn't attacked in the way it used to. Finally, now we know the rifts seem to lead to another planet. Maybe the order imposed on the Snarl by the gates caused it to change somehow. Maybe it learned that it could not merely destroy, but also create. I guess it's as likely or unlikely as anything else, but I like that idea better than the notion that the entire metaplot we've been following is untrue and thus a waste of our time.

I agree; I find it far more likely (and potentially satisfying) that "Everything has changed since then!" than "Everything you were told is a lie!"

[multilis]

" don't think this new revelation means everything we know is a lie. From a storytelling perspective, that's a copout. What I think it does mean is that things have changed."

You are so right. We know about the Holey alliance, that holes should be left open, so it is only logical that they and sister organisations like Church of Snarl are telling the truth.

Join us.

Church of Snarl

(PS: We don't kill innocent babies like those evil paladins)

[Kiren]

The white parts of the planet could just be clouds.

[factotum]

We know that the Snarl has been imprisoned for the better part of sixty years.

Actually, it's been imprisoned for over a thousand years--just because there are a few tiny holes in its prison doesn't change that. Which is why I, personally, think someone (Shojo, Soon, the Gods) is pulling a fast one; why should the Snarl have changed from a being of pure chaos that destroys anything near it to a creator in a few decades? Unless the Gates themselves are influencing the Snarl, but that implies they're more powerful than the Gods, who were never able to influence it.

[ottack]

Great Comic and a nice way to end the book.
Personally i'd put my money on V being the one on the inside cover of this book that's how i feel.
This new introduction to the plot clearly shows as V said they don't know everything and by the way the huge areas of white are ice caps because if you look close enough you can actualy see the clouds around the planet and in fact over the ice caps.
Rich have a nice well earened rest.

[holywhippet]

Actually, it's been imprisoned for over a thousand years--just because there are a few tiny holes in its prison doesn't change that. Which is why I, personally, think someone (Shojo, Soon, the Gods) is pulling a fast one; why should the Snarl have changed from a being of pure chaos that destroys anything near it to a creator in a few decades? Unless the Gates themselves are influencing the Snarl, but that implies they're more powerful than the Gods, who were never able to influence it.

Soon is a paladin, lying like that would be heavily against his class requirements.

The Snarl is raw chaos, but keep in mind that even chaos can be involved in making things. A random conjunction of things can create things such as life. Also, the Snarl had a front row seat when the Gods made the world around it - it might have decided to copy what it saw for some reason.

No comics for several weeks? Meh, I'm on vacation in Canada until a week after Rich comes back so I'll expect a comic or two ready for my return.

[jere7my]

I don't think those are ice caps — you can see green beneath them. Vegetation doesn't generally survive underneath ice caps. :P I am on board with the "clouds" theory.

I, too, am intrigued by the idea that this is the earlier version of the planet. If that's the case, is it possible that it will operate under First Edition AD&D rules? Will the Order travel there, and if so will Vaarsuvius be bumped back to level 11 due to racial level limits? The possibilities!

[Demiurge]

Perhaps Rich Burlew has gone gnostic on us?

[Herald Alberich]

I'd like to point out the wonderful simplicity of the title. This strip is at once a conclusion by a familiar (here's what I saw in the rift!), a conclusion about a familiar (Blackwing's not just a forgettable class feature anymore), and a conclusion that is familiar (the last book ended with a scheduled break too). Triple puns are delicious.