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Zergrusheddie
2009-08-08, 07:47 PM
Is it possible to make an effective Blaster type caster ala Tim the Enchanter; just blowing everything to hell with spells and the like? I know that through Metamagic cheese it can work but are there any other ways as well?

Best of luck
-Eddie

The Dark Fiddler
2009-08-08, 07:50 PM
I think just getting to a high enough level would be enough.

I'm being completely honest here.

I hope nobody expected a joke.

Bosaxon
2009-08-08, 07:54 PM
Warmage class. Enough said.

The Mentalist
2009-08-08, 07:55 PM
I believe the term is a Cindy Wizard, but I don't have a link.

Wings of Peace
2009-08-08, 07:56 PM
Warmage class. Enough said.

Sorcerer's do it better with less suck in their list. Choose a spell such as Orb of Force. Arcane Thesis->Traditional Metamagic Cost reducers->Done. If you're not terribly worried about spell resistance then scorching ray is another good one. At high levels with less cheese I also enjoy a level of Arch-Mage combines with Greater Arcane Fusion Polar Ray/True strike. It's simple but I like it.

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-08, 07:57 PM
Reserve Feat: Fiery Blast. Bam. Blow stuff up all the time.

Zergrusheddie
2009-08-08, 07:58 PM
Sorcerer's do it better with less suck in their list. Choose a spell such as Orb of Force. Arcane Thesis->Traditional Metamagic Cost reducers->Done. If you're not terribly worried about spell resistance then scorching ray is another good one. At high levels with less cheese I also enjoy a level of Arch-Mage combines with Greater Arcane Fusion Polar Ray/True strike. It's simple but I like it.

Full Round Action metamagic hurts Sorcerers hard. No Quicken is just brutal...

Kyouhen
2009-08-08, 07:59 PM
Could always just go Warlock. They have no limit to the amount of magicky goodness they can throw around. Might not be as awesome as a normal spellcaster, but you can start hurling your pretty lights at anything and everything.

Zergrusheddie
2009-08-08, 08:00 PM
Reserve Feat: Fiery Blast. Bam. Blow stuff up all the time.

Ahh, Fiery Burst: the no prerequisite feat that emulated what a Warlock does. I had forgotten about that one.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-08-08, 08:10 PM
Ahh, Fiery Burst: the no prerequisite feat that emulated what a Warlock does. I had forgotten about that one.

Well, you do need 2nd level spells (so you need things like Precocious Apprentice to pick it up at 1st levle), but yeah, it really obsoletes warlocks.

Kaihaku
2009-08-08, 08:24 PM
OT: Now I really want to make the thread, "Is Kim Possible?"

Dervag
2009-08-08, 08:28 PM
I get the feeling is that the answer is "yes," and that all that really matters is how much blowing up of stuff you want to do at a given level, for which build optimization matters.

I've heard that wizards are actually balanced, more or less, for blasting; it's all the other stuff that Wizards of the Coast screwed up and turned wizards into gods with.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-08-08, 08:33 PM
OT: Now I really want to make the thread, "Is Kim Possible?"

You disgust me. Yet I laugh.

erikun
2009-08-08, 08:35 PM
OT: Now I really want to make the thread, "Is Kim Possible?"
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought along the Is Ron Stoppable? lines. :smalltongue:

But yes, blasty wizards are more what the original designers thought the wizard would do. You can buff spell DC and grab the appropriate reserve feat(s) and really have no problems, if you wanted an Evoker.

The Gilded Duke
2009-08-08, 08:35 PM
Tim, 7th level Strongheart Halfling Shaper
With:
Forced Dream
Quintessence
Time Hop

Feats:
Power Attack
Cleave
Improved Unarmed Strike
Leap Attack

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-08-08, 08:36 PM
Full Round Action metamagic hurts Sorcerers hard. No Quicken is just brutal...

It's called Rapid Metamagic, either an ACF from PhB II, or if you don't want it limited number times per day, just grab the feat in CompArc.

Also, Orb of Force allows SR. If you are worried about SR, go with Orb of Sound instead.

Warlock + Hellfire+ Naberous+ Legacy Champion = good times

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-08-08, 08:36 PM
Full Round Action metamagic hurts Sorcerers hard. No Quicken is just brutal...

PhbII metamagic sorceror option. Give up a familiar to get no penalty on using netamagic including quicken. There is also a feat called rapid metamagic which does the same. And there is a feat called obtain familiar which is pretty much self explanatory. So you can have your cake and your familiar can east it too.

olentu
2009-08-08, 08:59 PM
PhbII metamagic sorceror option. Give up a familiar to get no penalty on using netamagic including quicken. There is also a feat called rapid metamagic which does the same. And there is a feat called obtain familiar which is pretty much self explanatory. So you can have your cake and your familiar can east it too.

The PHB2 one is not such a good idea if I am remembering correctly that it only works 3+int times per day.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-08-08, 09:02 PM
The PHB2 one is not such a good idea if I am remembering correctly that it only works 3+int times per day.

For many sorcerers, this is STILL better than a familiar. Familiars are often a liability, and many casters would rather do without. It's a good alternative.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-08-08, 09:04 PM
The PHB2 one is not such a good idea if I am remembering correctly that it only works 3+int times per day.

Agreed. But it's better than arcane preparation...

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-08-08, 09:08 PM
Agreed. But it's better than arcane preparation...

That's why we have Rapid Metamagic feat in Complete Arcane which negates the extra time for casting Metamagic spontaneously. Requires 12 ranks in Spellcraft, so you can pick it up as your 9th level feat.

Except for meeting entry requirements for Mage of the Arcane Order, it's strictly better than Arcane Preparation.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-08-08, 09:12 PM
That's why we have Rapid Metamagic feat in Complete Arcane which negates the extra time for casting Metamagic spontaneously. Requires 12 ranks in Spellcraft, so you can pick it up as your 9th level feat.

Except for meeting entry requirements for Mage of the Arcane Order, it's strictly better than Arcane Preparation.

Exactly...

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-08, 09:18 PM
For many sorcerers, this is STILL better than a familiar. Familiars are often a liability, and many casters would rather do without. It's a good alternative.

Except familiars tip the economy of actions in a caster's favor even further.

Tim the Enchanter:

Enchanter 3
Feats can be whatever. 3rd level feat is Fiery Burst.

Done.

FMArthur
2009-08-08, 09:21 PM
You could go blaster psion with Linked Power and take Metapower with a 1pp-costing swift action power over and over, reducing the cost of anything you link it with to 0. My Light and Primal Fear are powers ideal for metapower-linking to offensive spells, the former because it's a swift action with no listed target and the latter because it's a swift action with a ranged target. Primal Fear's number of targets can be augmented for one extra target per power point and Link Power says that the power you link to it has the same target... possibly resulting in hitting more targets with your power (for free) than manifesting that power alone.

Chaos would ensue around the table if you ever did that, but it's an effective way to blast all day, and everyone says psions are the best at blasting.

...This idea deviated quite far from the thread's intention, though. I just saw text requesting information on blasting and ran over to get my psionics books. :smallredface:

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-08-08, 09:27 PM
Except familiars tip the economy of actions in a caster's favor even further.

Tim the Enchanter:

Enchanter 3
Feats can be whatever. 3rd level feat is Fiery Burst.

Done.

You still need a Fire spell of 2nd level or higher to be able to use it, even though it isn't required to take the feat.

The other problem is that it still allows a Reflex save for half.

Use Acid Splatter, it's a RTA.

Or, if you actually want a useful one, try Dimensional Jaunt or Summon Elemental.

Dhavaer
2009-08-08, 09:36 PM
Use Acid Splatter, it's a RTA.

Or, if you actually want a useful one, try Dimensional Jaunt or Summon Elemental.

Those aren't really useful for blowing things up, though.

JaxGaret
2009-08-08, 09:39 PM
Sorcerer's do it better [than Warmages] with less suck in their list.

I'll agree that the Sorcerer will have a much better spell list overall than a Warmage, but the Warmage does have a couple of advantages over the Sorcerer: Warmage Edge adds a few points of damage to every spell, which is nice; Armored Mage frees them from having to purchase non-ASF armor; and on their spell list is several spells (Mass Fire Shield, Earthquake, etc.) that are at a lower level than the Sorcerer can take them.


Also, for spontaneous casters in general, the Versatile Spellcaster feat goes a long way for making up the gap in power between them and prepared casters. It's an incredibly useful feat.

lsfreak
2009-08-08, 09:39 PM
Except familiars tip the economy of actions in a caster's favor even further.

Especially when you get a runestaff with imbue familiar with spell ability. Eats up one 6th-level slot a day and gives you essentially 2 extra quickened spells per round for several rounds if you really need it.

Best base spells are Orb of Sound or Scorching Ray. Throw in Energy Admixture, Twin, Empower, and Enervating. Orb of Sound goes to an average of ~350 damage a hit. There are other metamagic reducers to drop the level to the point where you can pick up Maximize as well. Orb of Force is longer range but offers SR. Scorching Ray hits a bit harder but it's over 6 hits, so energy resistance hurts a lot. Disintegrate goes to Twin Empowered Enervating Split Ray for ~63dmg/level (equivalent of ~18d6 damage a level), though it offers a save. Be sure to prepare a couple non-Enervating versions of each for when your DM gets pissed off and throws undead at you.

EDIT: And focused specialist wizards are arguably better than sorcerers for pure blasting because you can metamagic things a level earlier, no need for an extra feat to make it only take a standard action to metamagic, and you get equal or better amounts of spell lots. And your pearls of power are cheaper.

Doc Roc
2009-08-09, 02:26 AM
Full Round Action metamagic hurts Sorcerers hard. No Quicken is just brutal...

Go look up arcane spellsurge in dragon magic.

Quicken is dead! All hail quicken!

I recommend the War Mage PrC from the excellent Age of Mortals book for the dragonlance setting. I also second the reserve feat recommendation, though I suggest that you might prefer the acid one due to increased difficulty in resisting it and recurrent damage potential.

Ganurath
2009-08-09, 02:43 AM
The PHB2 one is not such a good idea if I am remembering correctly that it only works 3+int times per day.You do not: That's the wizard varient, Immediate Magic. Metamagic Specialist has no daily limit.

Human Metamagic Specialist Sorceror

1: Repeat Spell
H: Blistering Spell
3: Energy Substitution (Fire)
6: Arcane Thesis (Kelgore's Grave Mist)
9: Black Lore of Moil, retrain ES (Fire) as SF (necro) and Blistering as Flash Frost
12: Heighten Spell?

sofawall
2009-08-09, 02:53 AM
You do not: That's the wizard varient, Immediate Magic. Metamagic Specialist has no daily limit.


This is wrong.

EDIT: Although, annoyingly enough, it isn't based on Cha, but Int. Damn wizards always win.

olentu
2009-08-09, 02:57 AM
You do not: That's the wizard varient, Immediate Magic. Metamagic Specialist has no daily limit.

Human Metamagic Specialist Sorceror

1: Repeat Spell
H: Blistering Spell
3: Energy Substitution (Fire)
6: Arcane Thesis (Kelgore's Grave Mist)
9: Black Lore of Moil, retrain ES (Fire) as SF (necro) and Blistering as Flash Frost
12: Heighten Spell?

Are you sure. I do remember quite clearly that the limitation was there for the ability on page 61 as I thought it rather strange. Well I do not care enough at the moment to look it up so I shall defer to your knowledge since presumably you looked it up.

Edit: And it appears that unfortunately I was correct in my memory of the ability.

Talic
2009-08-09, 02:57 AM
Focused Specialist wizards do have an edge over sorcerors, I'll admit.

Psions tend to beat both, at least for blasting. There are some exceptions (Cindy), but, by and large, Psions have the edge here.

Mongoose87
2009-08-09, 02:58 AM
You're all ignoring one major problem: Tim is an Enchanter.

sofawall
2009-08-09, 02:59 AM
With fireworks. Illusionist/enchanter?

Talic
2009-08-09, 03:15 AM
You're all ignoring one major problem: Tim is an Enchanter.

Enchanter/Psion Cerebremancer.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-08-09, 04:14 AM
Just because he's an Enchanter doesn't mean he doesn't ALSO have either Conjuration or Evocation to be able to fuel the Fiery Burst feat... he COULD have just banned Transmutation and Abjuration...

Talic
2009-08-09, 04:21 AM
Just because he's an Enchanter doesn't mean he doesn't ALSO have either Conjuration or Evocation to be able to fuel the Fiery Burst feat... he COULD have just banned Transmutation and Abjuration...

Necromancy. Otherwise he'd have just Finger of Death'd the bunny.

Wings of Peace
2009-08-09, 04:26 AM
It's called Rapid Metamagic, either an ACF from PhB II, or if you don't want it limited number times per day, just grab the feat in CompArc.

Also, Orb of Force allows SR. If you are worried about SR, go with Orb of Sound instead.

Warlock + Hellfire+ Naberous+ Legacy Champion = good times


Check your Spell Compendium again. Orb of Force has no Saving Throw and allows no SR.

Edit: Also kudos for Rapid Metamagic. For some reason alot of people overlook it. It's in Complete Mage as well.

Talic
2009-08-09, 04:31 AM
Complete mage has a lot of really good ACFs.

Wings of Peace
2009-08-09, 05:06 AM
Complete mage has a lot of really good ACFs.

Complete Mage is sort of deceptive or at least it was to me. At first I didn't think much of it. After a second read though I started realizing alot of the potential things it allowed particularly things like Rapid Metamagic, Arcane Fusion, and my personal fav Eldritch Disciple.

Talic
2009-08-09, 05:20 AM
Complete Mage is sort of deceptive or at least it was to me. At first I didn't think much of it. After a second read though I started realizing alot of the potential things it allowed particularly things like Rapid Metamagic, Arcane Fusion, and my personal fav Eldritch Disciple.

Oh, I realized Comp Mage's power the instant I saw Metamagic Sorcery.

Rogues/monks that can reflect spells are cool too.

I believe divine magician comes from there too, which makes Buffzilla even worse.

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-09, 08:19 AM
You're all ignoring one major problem: Tim is an Enchanter.

Uh, I said Tim was an Enchanter 3 with Fiery Burst.

He learns/prepares Scorching Ray at 3rd level. He's barred Necromancy and Abjuration. He's still an effective wizard, even as an Enchanter, but is able to blow stuff up whenever he can.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-08-09, 01:13 PM
Also, Orb of Force allows SR. If you are worried about SR, go with Orb of Sound instead.
None of the Orb series offers SR iirc.

Darrin
2009-08-09, 04:13 PM
Is it possible to make an effective Blaster type caster ala Tim the Enchanter; just blowing everything to hell with spells and the like? I know that through Metamagic cheese it can work but are there any other ways as well?


The build you're looking for is called the Mailman:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1124745

The Emperor_Tippy's "Cindy" build is also frequently mentioned, but it's never been posted in a forum anywhere. There's a similar character sheet floating around, maybe someone still has a link to it, for Akakrin, which I've been told is very similar to Cindy but uses Evervation instead of Scorching Ray. The two defining characteristics of a Cindy build are probably Arcane Thesis/Metamagic abuse and Dark Chaos Shuffle (or Psychic Reformation) to recycle elven racial feats into metamagic feats.

There are some other builds that focus on direct damage... Warlock 20 isn't too shabby, and Warlock 8/Binder 1/Hellfire Warlock 3/Something +8 starts to lean pretty heavily toward "Wicked Awesome".

I've also been noodling around with a Lyric Thaumaturge/Sublime Chord blaster that uses Born of Three Thunders + Sonic Might. I was playing around with the Orbs, but it also occurred to me that if you Persist a Flame Dagger (energy substitute to electricity, BTT subs in sonic), you could have a small army of Sonic (Flame) Daggers following you around all day, making touch attacks + save vs stun + save vs prone + whatever else you can stack on top of it.

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-09, 04:30 PM
There are some other builds that focus on direct damage... Warlock 20 isn't too shabby, and Warlock 8/Binder 1/Hellfire Warlock 3/Something +8 starts to lean pretty heavily toward "Wicked Awesome".

Legacy Weapon Wielder 8. +1 of your last level taken, which means +16d6 on your Hellfire Blast.

Ashes
2009-08-09, 04:54 PM
OT: Now I really want to make the thread, "Is Kim Possible?"

Is Kim Possible what?





...






:smallwink:

AstralFire
2009-08-09, 04:58 PM
Is Kim Possible what?





...






:smallwink:

Is Kim Possible to Ron Stoppable a Tim Orel Aunt Agnes?

Zergrusheddie
2009-08-09, 05:52 PM
You're all ignoring one major problem: Tim is an Enchanter.

I know he is. But in every group I have played in we have always called casters who just blow everything to Kingdom-come with spells Tim. Remember the scene where time just points at the rocks and they explode? That's Tim.

Doc Roc
2009-08-09, 06:58 PM
Could we stop obsessing about metamagic specialist and take a look at the excellent spell Arcane Spellsurge which effectively obsoletes it entirely?

Zergrusheddie
2009-08-09, 07:15 PM
What exactly is this Cindy build? It uses Scorching Ray? :smallconfused:

Myrmex
2009-08-09, 07:54 PM
The Emperor_Tippy's "Cindy" build is also frequently mentioned, but it's never been posted in a forum anywhere.

It was posted a few times on GitP.


What exactly is this Cindy build? It uses Scorching Ray? :smallconfused:

No. The build is based around persisting dozens of incredible spells like Ironguard, Shapechange, Superior Invisibility, and Ghostform and using the Orb line of spells to deal unbelievably high amounts of damage without a save or SR.

It uses two tricks: Chaos Shuffling elf weapon proficiencies and arcane thesis metamagic reduction abuse. It's not a terribly imaginative build, but is essentially 2 parties in one.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-08-09, 10:34 PM
It uses two tricks: Chaos Shuffling elf weapon proficiencies and arcane thesis metamagic reduction abuse. It's not a terribly imaginative build, but is essentially 2 parties in one.Not imaginative, but it was a lot of abuse to squeeze into one package, and it was extremely good for a blaster build. Also remember that it was made something like 3 years ago, so yes, by our standards, there are tricks she doesn't take advantage of that she should.