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View Full Version : I fear that not everyone... *maybe spoilers*



Gamerlord
2009-08-09, 10:55 AM
Will live to see the final battle.
Why?
Here is my evidence:
Which 3 linear guild members always survive, with the rest being killed or going AWOL and those members represent Elan,Haley, and Roy, so there fore I bet that at the battle for Giard's gate Belkar, Durkon, And V will be killed and IN the final battle only those 3 remaining members will be in the battle for Kraggor's gate.

Kish
2009-08-09, 10:58 AM
Rich originally planned for only Nale and Sabine to survive each Linear Guild defeat. The members of the Linear Guild are more fungible than the members of the Order of the Stick because they're second-string villains rather than primary heroes.

Knaight
2009-08-09, 11:04 AM
However Belkar is "not long for this world", which may refer to death, in conjunction with everything else. We know Durkon will be returned to the dwarves posthumously, as for V there is the whole demon thing. However any and all of them may also be killed in the final battle.

Murdim
2009-08-09, 11:53 AM
While I can't say gamerkid's evidence is hardly convincing and consistent enough to make a sensible theory by itself, it actually follows some already-established trend about the character's life expectancies.

_ Roy... well, he's the main character. Plus, he already died, and remained dead for more than two hundred strips
_ Not only is Elan both too pretty and to stupid to die, the Oracle said he's going to get an happy end at the end of the story.
_ Haley already benefits from a powerful Plot Armor since the very beginning, by the sole virtue of being the team's token girl. Now, add the fact she's also protected by Elan's destiny.
_ Even in the case where being the pawn of fiends doesn't kill him, Vaarsuvius is still a tragic character in dire need of redemption. And we all know what they say about that... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedemptionEqualsDeath)
_ Durkon will come back to the dwarven nation posthumously AND bringing devastation to his kin, i.e Durkon won't bring devastation until he's dead, i.e this whole devastation-bringing mess would only have a sense in the story if Durkon dies prematurely.
_ Belkar will die soon and won't ever be raised, be it living, undead or otherwise. The Oracle has been pretty clear about it.

Venedlor
2009-08-09, 10:07 PM
_ Belkar will die soon and won't ever be raised, be it living, undead or otherwise. The Oracle has been pretty clear about it.


The Oracle said that he was "not long for this world." Now we see that there is a world with in a world. Everything that he said did hint that Belkar was/is going to die. But this new world has thrown a monkey wrench into that.

Berserk Monk
2009-08-09, 10:12 PM
The Oracle said that he was "not long for this world." Now we see that there is a world with in a world. Everything that he said did hint that Belkar was/is going to die. But this new world has thrown a monkey wrench into that.

He also said Belkar will draw list last breath by the end of this year. What are the odds that this new world has no oxygen AND Belkar can live in such an environment?

nysisobli
2009-08-09, 10:23 PM
or he might simply be saying, that you can't draw something invisible, and belkar will draw someone taking a breath by the end of the year? For the last time.

Murdim
2009-08-10, 02:38 AM
The Oracle said that he was "not long for this world." Now we see that there is a world with in a world. Everything that he said did hint that Belkar was/is going to die. But this new world has thrown a monkey wrench into that."Birthday cake", "last breath ever", ect...

Jackson
2009-08-10, 04:51 AM
Let's not make this another 'Belkar won't die' thread. He will.

Though I don't agree with the original reasoning (especially if Thog only ended up surviving because of his popularity, since Roy obviously survives), Murdim's reasoning is fairly sound as to why Belkar, Durkon, and maybe V will all die by the end of the story. That said, only V dying isn't explicitly foreshadowed, so it's not really unreasonable to guess that Belkar and Durkon will die by the end; it's more or less guaranteed. I do buy the reasoning for why V might die, but of course it's not nearly as sure a thing.

Though I feel I should point out that Hilgya survived (as did Leaky and Pompey. I don't know how alive somebody who was last seen in the custody of lawyers can be said to be). So if we really want the Order of the Stick to be analogous to the Linear Guild, we have to have Durkon living but offscreen, which seems incredibly unlikely. V should be out there as well.

Hann1
2009-08-10, 05:09 AM
Concerning Elan and Haley not dieing cause of Elans happy end: The name sais it all, its a happy END, what happens before is something wholly different, and seeing how death in DnD settings is mostly temporary doesn't make it unlikely that one of the two(or both) will die, only that they will remain dead until the end.

Belkar is totally dead though, pity i liked the lil guy ;/

I don't think V's death is that likely, just because him being dead would kinda not mix with that Demon-pact plot.

Ghastly Epigram
2009-08-10, 05:31 AM
we have to have Durkon living but offscreen,

But that's how it is already.

Hann1
2009-08-10, 05:38 AM
But that's how it is already.

he is on screen in the latest comic O_o

Optimystik
2009-08-10, 09:50 AM
Rich originally planned for only Nale and Sabine to survive each Linear Guild defeat. The members of the Linear Guild are more fungible than the members of the Order of the Stick because they're second-string villains rather than primary heroes.

Sadly (for me anyway), although Leeky and Pompey survived Cliffport, they seem to have been put on a bus regardless.

WTB another druid in OotS :smallfrown:

Kulture
2009-08-10, 05:27 PM
The whole Belkar issue has been discussed Ad Nauseum through countless threads, but I'm going to indulge myself for just a paragraph or two.
Belkar is quoted as being "Not long for this world" and will "Draw his last breath within the year" given the oracle's history with pedantic and convoluted divination, the 'world within a world' will likely come into this.

My theory is that Snarl's world is totally partitioned off from other planes, or the entropic barrier of Snarl's visage disrupts magic needed to reach it conventionally. With this in mind, it's not impossible that snarl's victims thus far have been taken (FMA Gate style) to this new world and been treated to the spell Mind rape to redress the issue of previous history.

The boundless possibilities for this new world throws a real spanner in attempting to accurately predict any function it may have, it could be similiar to the far realms, or could be a world that functions like a giant ioun stone of sustenance.
Then of course we're counting out the possibility that Belkar won't simply aquire a new template and use his newfound powers to butcher everything in his path.
Even if Belkar does die, we've got either ressurection spells or, thanks to fiendish code II, the hellbred race type.
Hellbred are beings (normally humans) who were perpetrators of great evil in their life. After realising this they repented (Or in Belkar's case pretended to, via use of the lead sheet) too late to ascend to heaven, but not so late as to be damned.
They're then reborn as Hellbred with some rather tasty bonuses.
The main issues here are:
1) Belkar convincing the gods that he's legit
2) It's Devil dependent, meaning that Belkar's recent gravitation toward neutral/lawful spectrum would have to continue and
3) Belkar has to say "I was wrong, I'm sorry, please give me another chance."

This is of course assuming Belkar doesn't go straight to hell and eventually overthrow someone.

Cerrakoth
2009-08-10, 07:24 PM
While I can't say gamerkid's evidence is hardly convincing and consistent enough to make a sensible theory by itself, it actually follows some already-established trend about the character's life expectancies.

_ Roy... well, he's the main character. Plus, he already died, and remained dead for more than two hundred strips
_ Not only is Elan both too pretty and to stupid to die, the Oracle said he's going to get an happy end at the end of the story.
_ Haley already benefits from a powerful Plot Armor since the very beginning, by the sole virtue of being the team's token girl. Now, add the fact she's also protected by Elan's destiny.
_ Even in the case where being the pawn of fiends doesn't kill him, Vaarsuvius is still a tragic character in dire need of redemption. And we all know what they say about that... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedemptionEqualsDeath)
_ Durkon will come back to the dwarven nation posthumously AND bringing devastation to his kin, i.e Durkon won't bring devastation until he's dead, i.e this whole devastation-bringing mess would only have a sense in the story if Durkon dies prematurely.
_ Belkar will die soon and won't ever be raised, be it living, undead or otherwise. The Oracle has been pretty clear about it.

Has anyone considered Hayley and Elan might die together? And be happy in the afterlife? Just a thought...

EDIT: Damn Ninja's! Should've read the whole post, someone else has already said it sorry

zql
2009-08-11, 01:29 AM
when i read the title and the first line of your post i thought that you were talking about us, the fans

and it makes me realize that it's probable that a few of the 38,074 members of this forum die before the story ends :smalleek: ...










meh, enough of emo crap, let's roadtrip! (?)

Xesirin
2009-08-11, 11:29 AM
Concerning Elan and Haley not dieing cause of Elans happy end: The name sais it all, its a happy END, what happens before is something wholly different, and seeing how death in DnD settings is mostly temporary doesn't make it unlikely that one of the two(or both) will die, only that they will remain dead until the end.

I dunno, given the difficulty that we witnessed in getting Roy back to life, I suspect that either one of them dying is not going to connotate well for the overall outcome.

Haven
2009-08-11, 11:38 AM
But that's how it is already.

Zing! Oh, how I wish it wasn't so true.

Anyway, I'm expecting V to die, since the Oracle was about to make a case for that before Belkar interrupted him. I don't think Durkon is going to die; after the comic I think he'll decide that he wants to live out his life in human lands, and after his death he'll be returned home. I can think of a few reasons why he'd decide that, but my favorite is "hooks up with Lien".

I imagine Elan possibly will die, in a heroic sacrifice or otherwise dying happy ("a happy end" indeed), but likely not.

Roy and Haley are probably okay too.

Murdim
2009-08-11, 12:52 PM
Belkar is quoted as being "Not long for this world" and will "Draw his last breath within the year" given the oracle's history with pedantic and convoluted divination, the 'world within a world' will likely come into this.Firstly, the "another world" twist only works for the "not long for this world" bit, in the same way that "will be resurrected" only works for the "will die" one, and "will become undead" for the "last breath ever" one. Secondly, the Kobold Oracle of Tiamat hardly deserves to suffer the bad reputation earned by his fellows. For what we've seen, the most obvious meaning of his prophecies is always the right one, to the point he is even reluctant to give a misleading information to the Order when Roy's contrived question forced him to do so.


2) It's Devil dependent, meaning that Belkar's recent gravitation toward neutral/lawful spectrum would have to continue and
Isn't Belkar still as Chaotic Evil as he ever was, only in a more thoughtful way ? I've always thought that Chaotic Good Shojo learned to Belkar how to be wisely Chaotic, and certainly not how to be Lawful. The very frequent and very wrong mixing up of lack of Wisdom and Chaotic alignment always appalled me ; check the usual gaming stereotypes, Baldur's Gate II characters, or even the Order itself.

Kish
2009-08-11, 12:58 PM
Isn't Belkar still as Chaotic Evil as he ever was, only in a more thoughtful way ?
Every time a new strip comes out*, at least one person on this board goes, "Look! There's Belkar moving toward Lawful!" and another person goes, "Look! There's Belkar moving toward Good!" If we're very, very lucky, no one suggests that Belkar is moving toward both Lawful and Good at once.

*"But...but Belkar wasn't in this strip!"
"Exactly! He didn't do anything bad!"

busterswd
2009-08-11, 02:10 PM
he's going to get an happy end at the end of the story.

Tasha's Hideous Laughter
Finger of Death

Hey, at least he died laughing.

Murdim
2009-08-11, 02:21 PM
*****'s Hideous LaughterEdit out this unholy name, you reckless fool ! Did you forget that we're watched by the spoooooooky wizard who lives by the coast and his vile lawyers ?


*"But...but Belkar wasn't in this strip!"
"Exactly! He didn't do anything bad!" I lol'd.

David Argall
2009-08-11, 03:24 PM
I'm expecting V to die, since the Oracle was about to make a case for that before Belkar interrupted him.
As we have pointed out many times...
Belkar mentioned several names and the Oracle mentioned in order...
Roy-died in a way that fit the prediction, with a little sharp practice,
Miko-died in a way that only fit the prophecy with a whole lot of sharp practice,
Miko's horse-hasn't died at all, except by massive twisting of the definition of death,
And V, whose connection must be even more tenuous [or the Oracle would have mentioned it earlier]. We can't be sure that V will die at all, nor that Belkar will have any notable relationship to that "death".

Then we have the point that our writer does not use all the options in cases like this. V the lizard memorizes 3 spells, and only casts 2 of them. Super V has 3 souls with epic spells. Only 2 of them get cast. So we see no reason that our author will show a connection with every name, quote the reverse.

So we have no reason to think the prediction is any foreshadowing of V dying in the story.

yanmaodao
2009-08-12, 03:52 AM
But that's how it is already.

<<Rim shot>>

Irbis
2009-08-12, 04:32 AM
As we have pointed out many times...
Belkar mentioned several names and the Oracle mentioned in order...
Roy-died in a way that fit the prediction, with a little sharp practice,
Miko-died in a way that only fit the prophecy with a whole lot of sharp practice,
Miko's horse-hasn't died at all, except by massive twisting of the definition of death,
And V, whose connection must be even more tenuous [or the Oracle would have mentioned it earlier]. We can't be sure that V will die at all, nor that Belkar will have any notable relationship to that "death".

Nope. The V's connection had to be the most direct one: the only reason Oracle saved it for last was simple - saying how the elf dies would have prevented it from happening (Haley would make sure about it) and Oracle really doesn't like (as he said) "screwing plot sequences". Besides, V still hadn't died at this point, so Belkar would likely dismiss it as a wishful thinking.

Turkish Delight
2009-08-12, 05:06 AM
So we have no reason to think the prediction is any foreshadowing of V dying in the story.

We've got one, at least. When the kobold prophet guy is rattling off his list of very questionable rationales for suggesting Belkar killed all of the people/animals he listed, he was cut short at 'As for the elf...', first by Belkar telling him to shut up and then by Belkar puncturing his intestines.

Now, of course, that doesn't mean anything, strictly speaking. It might have been just another questionable rationale. It might have just been the Giant sadistically toying with us.

But then again, it might have been he was just about to reveal, 'as for the elf, you're eventually going to smash his head in with a big rock.'

My instincts tell me to go for the latter. V will die either directly, indirectly, or so-indirectly-that-it-stretches-credibility at the hands of Belkar. This may or may not occur while Belkar himself is still breathing. The kernel of a suggestion that V will die by Belkar's hand is there quite strongly, from a dramatic point of view.

Jackson
2009-08-12, 11:35 AM
Only if you also agree that Miko and Windstriker (and Roy, for that matter) 'died by Belkar's hand.' If you think that they set a strong dramatic precedent, then I don't think I'll be able to argue against that belief.

And while he could have been about to say 'as for the elf, you'll kill him explicitly,' he might as easily been about to say 'as for the elf, I've got nothing.' Or to suggest a tenuous connection with a twisted definition of 'death.' There's not enough there to support a strong statement either way.

So I don't consider V's death to have been strongly foreshadowed. But it doesn't seem unlikely.

And Belkar hasn't done any movement towards being Lawful or Good - he's just decided to try and make other believe that he's moving in that direction, so he can get away with all the Chaotic Evil he enjoys doing so much. He said so explicitly. How are people missing this?

David Argall
2009-08-12, 02:24 PM
The kernel of a suggestion that V will die by Belkar's hand is there quite strongly, from a dramatic point of view.

It is a kernel that our writer has resisted at least twice before. Don't bet any money on Belkar having anything in particular to do with V's death, which will likely not happen during the story.

Turkish Delight
2009-08-12, 06:11 PM
It is a kernel that our writer has resisted at least twice before. Don't bet any money on Belkar having anything in particular to do with V's death, which will likely not happen during the story.

I wouldn't bet any money on Belkar having anything directly to do with Belkar's death, outside of the most insanely stretched logic; that's too up in the air. But the Oracle being cut off in mid-sentence before he was about to explain what Belkar would have to do with V's death? That would make me put money on V dying during the story in an instant.

V will die before the comic is through.

Xesirin
2009-08-13, 06:50 PM
Tasha's Hideous Laughter
Finger of Death

Hey, at least he died laughing.

Actually, as a result of Belkar's one-night-stand, I was worried for some time that the oracle was using a slightly different vernacular for the interpretation of the phrase "A Happy Ending" :smalleek:

Vmag
2009-08-13, 07:27 PM
_ Even in the case where being the pawn of fiends doesn't kill him, Vaarsuvius is still a tragic character in dire need of redemption. And we all know what they say about that... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedemptionEqualsDeath)

No, we don't. Are you suggesting he follows the pattern of Ulysses and goes on an epic journey across the face of the world to face the greatest of life's dangers and even goes down to Hades itself to receive redemption personally from those he felt died by his negligence only to return home and find his mate and home usurpered?

That's be pretty epic, to be honest.