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Kobold-Bard
2009-08-09, 11:22 AM
I haven't seen one of these threads for a while, so here goes nothing.
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In a moment of inexpliccable kindness the Gods of the D&Dverse have deigned to grant you extraordinary powers to aid you in your pitiful, mundane lives. What will you choose?

The Rules
1. You may select three Spells, Psionic Powers, Martial Manoeuvres or similarly levelled ability (Vestige Abilities count individually).

2. All choices are treated as having a Caster Level (or equivalent) of either 20, or their individual maximum if it's normally less than that.

3. You may not choose abilities that can be used to mimic other abilities such as Wish, Limited Wish, Miracle, Shadow Evocation, Reality Revision etc etc.

4. You may use each ability a number of times/day = 10-Spell Level (or equivalent). The more powerful the ability the less times you can use it.

5. Not everyone in the world is getting these powers, nor will you be transported to a fantasy world, after you receive them you will go back to your regular life.

6. No Epic Spells etc. The Gods aren't that generous.

Have fun (I hope).

Edit: I got bored so I decided to make a table of choices.
{table=head]Spell|Votes|Spell|Votes
Greater Teleport|14|Heal|10
Shapechange|8|Prestidigitation|5
Time Stop|5|Mindrape|4
Polymorph Any Object|4|Overland Flight|4
True Ressurrection|4|Cure Light Wounds|3
Dominate Person|3|Alter Self|3
Greater Invisibility|2|Gate|2
Guidance|2|Mass Heal|2
Superior Invisibility|2|Enlarged Invisible Disintegrate|1
BoVD Immortality Spell|1|Permanent Image|1
Clone|1|Hypercognition|1
Sound Lance|1|Blood on the Water|1
Moment of Prescience|1|Cure Minor Wounds|1
Fireball|1|Heroes Feast|1
Glitterdust|1|Floating Disk|1
Divine Insight|1|Wind Walk|1
Animate Dead|1|Irresistible Dance|1
Greater Celerity|1|Regeneration|1
Protection From Energy|1|Mind Blank|1
Magnificent Mansion|1|Break Enchantment|1
Permanency|1|Create Greater Undead|1
Scorching Ray|1|Prismatic Wall|1
Fox's Cunning|1|Owl's Wisdom|1|
Astral Projection|1|Summon Monster IX|1
Divination|1|Mass Cure Light Wounds|1
Glibness|1|True Mind Switch|1
Invisibility|1|Summon Nature's Ally IV|1[/table]

ritztastic
2009-08-09, 11:24 AM
Okay.

Gate.
Mindrape.
Prestidigitation.

I think my reasons are fairly obvious.

This is, of course, assuming Gate will still have any effect at all.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-08-09, 11:27 AM
Mindrape, the BoVD spell that allows you to add years to your life, and Clone.

Immortality, immortality, and an army of slaves.

Flickerdart
2009-08-09, 11:28 AM
We already did this once before, but sure.

Greater Teleport, Shapechange, Moment of Prescience. That just about covers everything.

Glyde
2009-08-09, 11:29 AM
Greater Teleport
Fireball
Glitterdust

Asbestos
2009-08-09, 11:31 AM
Mindrape, the BoVD spell that allows you to add years to your life, and Clone.

Immortality, immortality, and an army of slaves.

Yes, but if you aren't gaining levels (are you, who knows?) you can only clone yourself so many times before your CON hits 0. So... almost immortality.

vampire2948
2009-08-09, 11:32 AM
Contingent Resurrection - If I die, I pop back up again.
Vengeful Gaze of the God [Assuming I could negate the backlash somehow, contingent resurrection does this. If not, then Momento Mori]
That spell that someone mentioned before that increases my life-span
Spell from the 3.0 edition Chronomancy book that makes me immortal


Since epic spells lack a level, I guess I get to use them all 10/day?

I live forever, if I die, I return, and I can kill anyone, anywhere.

Win.

Glimbur
2009-08-09, 11:32 AM
Divine Insight (you know how useful knowledge checks are IRL?)
Heal (good combo of versatility in what it fixes and lower level)
Overland Flight (because awesome).

I suppose Illusions and Glibness would also be awesome choices.

Milskidasith
2009-08-09, 11:32 AM
Shapechange, Greater Teleport, Time Stop. If the "you can't hit stuff while in a time stop" rule applies, then I'd just put heavy objects above their heads or suddenly change into a dragon.

Or the previously mentioned immortality combos; I could probably get rid of greater teleport for the expanded lifespan thing.

raitalin
2009-08-09, 11:34 AM
Greater Teleport, Shapechange, Greater Invisibility

Yora
2009-08-09, 11:37 AM
Cure Light Wounds - There's probably no other power out there, that can make such a big difference, and that you could use so often. Saving nine people from death every day.
Protection from Energy - You practically can ignore heat and cold and you're also very well protected against electricity for some hours.
Alter Self - You would be like Mystic, and that's unbeliveable awsome. :smallbiggrin:

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-09, 11:39 AM
Contingent Resurrection
Vengeful Gaze of the God [Assuming I could negate the backlash somehow. If not, then Momento Mori]
That spell that someone mentioned before that increases my life-span
Spell from the 3.0 edition Chronomancy book that makes me immortal


Since epic spells lack a level, I guess I get to use them all 10/day?

6. No Epic Spells etc. The Gods aren't that generous.

paddyfool
2009-08-09, 11:40 AM
Shapechange (even excluding forms that would allow mimicking of other abilities, this should be a laugh a minute for the entirity of its 200 minute duration)
Heal
Mage's magnificent mansion

Not the optimal for power, but should be good fun and even enable the doing of a little good besides.

EDIT:

New list after reading others' ideas:

Polymorph any object (better than Shapechange, really): Fun, power
Mass heal (better than heal): Altruism
Mind blank: If anyone else got powers, just to be safe. If not: MMM (sure, I could build a palace with PAO anyway... but having one on tap, anywhere, plus food and servants, is just plain awesome).

Indon
2009-08-09, 11:41 AM
Shapechange, True Resurrection, Scorching Ray (pewpewlasers!).

Edit: Also,


Since epic spells lack a level, I guess I get to use them all 10/day?

If I recall correctly, Epic spells go in 10th level spell slots (you can metamagic a nonepic spell into an epic spell slot, too, this way).

So even if the gods gave you one, you'd be able to cast it 0 times a day.

Knaight
2009-08-09, 11:46 AM
1. Cure Light Wounds
2. Overland Flight
3. Time Stop

Prestidigitation was a very close fourth.

vampire2948
2009-08-09, 11:47 AM
If I recall correctly, Epic spells go in 10th level spell slots (you can metamagic a nonepic spell into an epic spell slot, too, this way).

So even if the gods gave you one, you'd be able to cast it 0 times a day.

You do not recall correctly. Epic spells don't take slots.

However, it seems someone added rule #6 just for me. :smallsmile:

Thus - I pick Dominate Person, Animate Dead and Create Greater Undead.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-09, 11:48 AM
1. Enlarged invisible disintegrate.
2. Superior invisibility.
3. Greater teleport.

Fear me, for I am like unto the greatest assassin that ever lived.

DragoonWraith
2009-08-09, 11:54 AM
Heh, Greater Teleport, Prestidigitation, and Time Stop are probably my choices.

quick_comment
2009-08-09, 11:56 AM
Hypercogitation (the psionic power)
Mindrape
Greater Anyspell :smallbiggrin:

vampire2948
2009-08-09, 11:57 AM
Hypercogitation (the psionic power)
Mindrape
Greater Anyspell :smallbiggrin:


3. You may not choose abilities that can be used to mimic other abilities such as Wish, Limited Wish, Miracle, Shadow Evocation, Reality Revision etc etc.


Greater Anyspell is banned.

quick_comment
2009-08-09, 12:05 PM
Fine, replace it with shapechange.

Eldan
2009-08-09, 12:10 PM
Greater Invisibility, Greater Teleport and Prestidigitation. What else does a man need? Maybe Dominate Monster instead of Invisibility, but that's debatable.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-08-09, 12:25 PM
Probably greater teleport, dominate person or mass suggestion, and prestidigitation.

"No, you didn't just see me appear out of thin air. You will give me your wallet. Here's a bunch of colored balls for your trouble."

Sliver
2009-08-09, 12:32 PM
Alter Self, Cure Light WoundsRestoration (probably lesser), Permanent Image.

lvl 1 sharnian
2009-08-09, 12:38 PM
Blood in the Water stance, hey, critical hits on humans are pretty easy; Head, heart,etc...
Greater Teleport, I'd like to save the Earth while raining chaos.
Heal, for the multiple troubles I'll get into.

Teleport to military surplus/base, steal a gun, teleport out and activate Blood in the Water, shoot up some people and become the most badass person on the planet.

PLUN
2009-08-09, 12:40 PM
Heroes Feast, Cure Minor Wounds and Tensers Floating Disc.
Power is simply another step to luxury - why not cut out the middleman here?

Forbiddenwar
2009-08-09, 12:42 PM
Heal
Wind Walk
Sound Lance (20d8 damage, no attack roll)
think of the good I can do, and the places I can see. Teleport, don't you have to know the place first?

I don't understand the allure of Prestigitation, unless you are thinking of being a street performer.
Nor do I understand Alter Self, except street performer or disguise utilizations.

Doesn't Continguency and resurrection count as 2 spells?

Indon
2009-08-09, 12:47 PM
You do not recall correctly. Epic spells don't take slots.

Indeed, it would seem I confused Epic Spellcasting for Improved Spell Capacity.

Edit:

Power is simply another step to luxury - why not cut out the middleman here?

With my spell selection, I can bring back Elvis. (and verify if he is indeed dead in the process, incidentally)

Sanguine
2009-08-09, 12:55 PM
True Resurrection-Because it would be awesome, my friend get's shot in the street not a problem.

Greater Teleport-Because it is awesome! And I am lazy.

Otto's Irresistible Dance-Dance my puppets dance.

Tempest Fennac
2009-08-09, 01:02 PM
Mass Heal and Regeneration because of how good they are for healing and Polymorph Any Object due to liking the idea of being able to change forms.

Narmoth
2009-08-09, 01:04 PM
heal
true ressurection
some mind control power

all hail Narmoth, the worlds generous and benevolent dictator

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-09, 01:17 PM
Heal
Wind Walk
Sound Lance (20d8 damage, no attack roll)
think of the good I can do, and the places I can see. Teleport, don't you have to know the place first?

I don't understand the allure of Prestigitation, unless you are thinking of being a street performer.
Nor do I understand Alter Self, except street performer or disguise utilizations.

Doesn't Continguency and resurrection count as 2 spells?

Technically, but unlike D&D world we have things such as atlas' and Wikipedia. Knowing a place is a hell of a lot easier for us.

Also good choice with wind walk, as close as you'll get to flying like Superman without being Superman.

John Campbell
2009-08-09, 01:23 PM
Mind blank, greater celerity, and break enchantment.

Because there's a difference between "not everyone" and "no one else", and, based on past experience with these threads, a sizable percentage of the population's most closely held desire is to mind rape their way to their personal paradise, no matter how many innocents they need to destroy to get there.

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-09, 01:24 PM
I'm a little surprised by the linear thinking..

Polymorph Any Object
Mindrape
Miracle

PAO myself into something special(Solar? Sure, why not).

Mindrape someone(or multiple someones) into willing sacrifices to pay the XP cast for Miracle.

Miracle: Replicate virtually any other spell, no chance of being screwed with by the gods.

Sanguine
2009-08-09, 01:30 PM
Miracle is off limits as it replicates other spells.

zarakstan
2009-08-09, 01:37 PM
Easy . . .

Shapechange
Gate
Time Stop

Tam_OConnor
2009-08-09, 01:39 PM
1) Prestidigitation. It is, for all intents and purposes, a minor wish. Great for cleaning up the house, yourself, and general utility.

2) Guidance. About to go in for an interview? About to take a test? Hello, +1.

3) Heal. For reasons already stated.

Close followers include heroes' feast and the AD&D luck spell (don't know if they reprinted it).

AstralFire
2009-08-09, 01:40 PM
You need to make the maneuvers per hour or something. There's no reason to pick the ability to hit one person really hard once a day instead of the ability to momentarily freeze time once a day.

Sanguine
2009-08-09, 01:44 PM
3) Heal. For reasons already stated.


Wouldn't cure light wounds be better, after all most people would be 1st level commoners and thus have four hit points and even most combat trained people wouldn't have more then a couple hit dice which would most likely be d8s at best. I really don't see you ever needing to heal 150 hp of damage.

FMArthur
2009-08-09, 01:45 PM
Polymorph Any Object, Prismatic Wall, Permanency

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-09, 01:50 PM
Wouldn't cure light wounds be better, after all most people would be 1st level commoners and thus have four hit points and even most combat trained people wouldn't have more then a couple hit dice which would most likely be d8s at best. I really don't see you ever needing to heal 150 hp of damage.

But Heal gets rid of disease, paralysis etc as well. Very useful.

Sanguine
2009-08-09, 01:53 PM
But Heal gets rid of disease, paralysis etc as well. Very useful.

Ah yes forgot about that part.

Winthur
2009-08-09, 02:13 PM
Fox's Cunning
Owl's Wisdom
(because I'd really like to be smart.)
Also, an equivalent of a touch spell that allows to stun. I'd impress my Trekkie cousin with a Vulcan Nerve Pinch! :smallbiggrin: (not to mention how useful it is in certain situations) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYdczjhGvg8)
If D&D gods can't grant me this, then probably Teleport. Or some kind of a quickie Horror spell for protection against bullies.



Wouldn't cure light wounds be better, after all most people would be 1st level commoners and thus have four hit points and even most combat trained people wouldn't have more then a couple hit dice which would most likely be d8s at best. I really don't see you ever needing to heal 150 hp of damage.

Cure LIGHT Wounds. The spell is called Cure LIGHT Wounds. The effect is just a translation to the D&D terms. I doubt a Cure Light Wounds would work on a person that was shot to the heart, smashed repeatedly with a baseball bat, or suffering huge burns. If someone was stabbed to the knee or punched (which I'd qualify is a light wound) and you're in the immediate range to help, I'd rather take the victim to the hospital, give him first aid, etc.

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-09, 02:13 PM
I got bored so I decided to make a table of choices.

{table]Spell|Votes|Spell|Votes
Greater Teleport|12|Shapechange|7
Heal|7|Prestidigitation|5
Mindrape|4|Time Stop|4
True Ressurrection|3|Dominate Person|3
Cure Light Wounds|3|Polymorph Any Object|3
Overland Flight|2|Greater Invisibility|2
Alter Self|2|Gate|2
Guidance|2|Animate Dead|1
Permanent Image|1|Enlarged Invisible Disintegrate|1
BoVD Immortality Spell|1|Superior Invisibility|1
Clone|1|Hypercognition|1
Sound Lance|1|Blood on the Water|1
Moment of Prescience|1|Cure Minor Wounds|1
Fireball|1|Heroes Feast|1
Glitterdust|1|Floating Disk|1
Divine Insight|1|Wind Walk|1
Mass Heal|1|Irresistible Dance|1
Greater Celerity|1|Regeneration|1
Protection From Energy|1|Mind Blank|1
Magnificent Mansion|1|Break Enchantment|1
Permanency|1|Create Greater Undead|1
Scorching Ray|1|Prismatic Wall|1
Fox's Cunning|1|Owl's Wisdom|1|
Astral Projection|1||[/table]

PrismaticPIA
2009-08-09, 02:21 PM
Astral Projection
Mindrape
Gate

Sanguine
2009-08-09, 02:26 PM
Cure LIGHT Wounds. The spell is called Cure LIGHT Wounds. The effect is just a translation to the D&D terms. I doubt a Cure Light Wounds would work on a person that was shot to the heart, smashed repeatedly with a baseball bat, or suffering huge burns. If someone was stabbed to the knee or punched (which I'd qualify is a light wound) and you're in the immediate range to help, I'd rather take the victim to the hospital, give him first aid, etc.


Except the spell can in-game bring 80+% of the population back from the brink of death.

zarakstan
2009-08-09, 02:27 PM
But if you get gate you can just gate in a lot of efreeti and get infinite wishes with which you can heal etc. etc. etc.

Mordokai
2009-08-09, 02:27 PM
Heal
Greater Teleport
Guidance

I'm pretty sure I had something else on mind, but a +1 does come in handy rather often.

quick_comment
2009-08-09, 02:29 PM
Heal
Greater Teleport
Guidance

I'm pretty sure I had something else on mind, but a +1 does come in handy rather often.


Why guidance? Moment of Prescience is 25 times better.

Milskidasith
2009-08-09, 02:32 PM
Divine Insight is another nice, more mundane choice; +15 ten times per day would be great for tests and/or solving the world's most pressing questions.

Winthur
2009-08-09, 02:33 PM
Except the spell can in-game bring 80+% of the population back from the brink of death.
Yeah, but I think it's just for the Greater Good of the GAME. If this spell healed less, it would be generally useless even for 1st levels.
Besides D&D was never supposed to emulate real world, doesn't it?

Also, I think my 3rd spell of choice would be Word of Recall. I mean, getting kidnapped? About to be hit by a car? Cast it in a second and no worries.

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-09, 02:34 PM
I got even more bored and arranged them by quantity.

What, don't look at me like that....:smallredface:

Sanguine
2009-08-09, 02:35 PM
Yeah, but I think it's just for the Greater Good of the GAME. If this spell healed less, it would be generally useless even for 1st levels.
Besides D&D was never supposed to emulate real world, doesn't it?

True but we are theoretically bringing game mechanics into the real world so the best way to determine there effectiveness is in-game.

Alteran
2009-08-09, 02:35 PM
Greater Teleport
Heal

For the last one...hmm. Probably Overland Flight or Polymorph any Object.

Greater Teleport is incredibly useful, and limiting it to 3 uses per day should be able to prevent me from becoming incredibly lazy. If I could Greater Teleport at-will, it might be hard to resist the temptation to just not physically move myself anywhere. At least I wouldn't need a car.

Heal should be able to heal anything except for death, basically. Any sort of disease or wound would be covered. It would also help me deal with those damn dirty undead that other posters seem to be interested in creating. :smallbiggrin:

Polymorph any Object is so incredibly useful. And multi-purpose, so possibly not allowed. It covers utility, changing something into something else. No, make that changing anything into anything else. It covers offense, turning a person to stone (although turning them back likely kills them). Overland Flight, well. Who hasn't wanted to be able to fly? For almost a full day with a single casting?

Mordokai
2009-08-09, 02:36 PM
Why guidance? Moment of Prescience is 25 times better.

My knowledge of spells is pretty much limited to core.

Set
2009-08-09, 02:37 PM
Mass Heal
Polymorph Any Object
and something else that doesn't matter much, maybe Summon Monster IX (which can summon 1 critter from that list, 1d3 critters from the SMVIII list or 1d4+1 critters from the SMVII list, making it three spells in one)

AstralFire
2009-08-09, 02:38 PM
I got even more bored and arranged them by quantity.

What, don't look at me like that....:smallredface:

If you add '=head' into the (table) tag, it will sort for you.

quick_comment
2009-08-09, 02:38 PM
My knowledge of spells is pretty much limited to core.

Moment of prescience is core.

Wulfram
2009-08-09, 02:38 PM
Divination, mass cure light wounds and glibness.

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-09, 02:39 PM
My knowledge of spells is pretty much limited to core.

Moment of Prescience (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/momentOfPrescience.htm).

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-09, 02:39 PM
If you add '=head' into the (table) tag, it will sort for you.

I really wish I'd known that before. Thanks.

AstralFire
2009-08-09, 02:40 PM
I really wish I'd known that before. Thanks.

I should note that what I mean is that it lets you click the top of the table and sort by a specific column. Its default appearance will be as you ordered it.

ArchaeologyHat
2009-08-09, 02:40 PM
Timestop, Superior Invisibilty, Alter Self

Mordokai
2009-08-09, 02:43 PM
Moment of prescience is core.


Moment of Prescience (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/momentOfPrescience.htm).

Yeah, well... look behind you!

*runs*

Meaning, I've had too little sleep, too much alcohol and a lot to worry about in the last 24 hours. Gimme a break, will ya :smalltongue:

But yeah, my fault. Shows what I know...

Jack_Simth
2009-08-09, 02:44 PM
Hmm...

Do they act like actual spells (where you need to pay the component cost, get the focus, the available XP, and so on), or are they spell-likes (where you can just use them)?

See, if you combine, say....

Greater Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportGreater.htm) (or Mind Blank, considering how many other people tend to go the societal parasite route when faced with these questions...), True Mind Switch (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSwitchTrue.htm), and Heal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heal.htm), you've got some fun stuff - you find someone young-but-ill, switch with them, and cure their body. They get a new lease on life (taking over your old one), you're young and healthy again (and again, and again, and again...), and you can obtain wealth and youth without being a parasite on society ... but True Mind Switch doesn't work out so hot if you have to pay the XP cost each time.

Gnaeus
2009-08-09, 02:45 PM
Wind Walk or Overland Flight (Same as above)

Invisibility (The 20 minute duration makes it better than greater invisibility, and you can use it 8 times/day)

Summon Nature's Ally IV.
Smite your enemies with packs of rabid wolves, heal friends with unicorns, or general utility. Usable 6 x per day all without the indignity of becoming visible.

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-09, 02:45 PM
Spell-like. No costs.

mistformsquirrl
2009-08-09, 02:52 PM
After some thinking:

Heal, True Resurrection, and Shapechange.

Heal because even grievous injury is no longer a huge worry - so long as I'm still alive. (I still have 1hp!); True Resurrection because well... how awesome would that be? Someone dies of other-than-old-age and you can bring them back. Granted, you can't save everyone; but it'd be useful.

Shapechange covers offense, defense, and transportation in one. Oh and it'd be awesome >.>

Aron Times
2009-08-09, 02:57 PM
1. Mass Suggestion
2. Mass Charm Monster
3. Wail of the Banshee ("Lelouch vi Britannia commands you! All of you, die!")

SinsI
2009-08-09, 03:03 PM
Regeneration, Overland Flight and anything that grants Eternal Youth.

Forbiddenwar
2009-08-09, 03:08 PM
I would like to change my Heal to Mass Heal. Go into hospitals/war zones
Also, I think true resurection would cause way too many problems. I believe the dead should just stay dead.

chiasaur11
2009-08-09, 03:08 PM
True Resurrection.

Fireball.

Disintegrate.

Life and Death, in the palm of my hand! Tremble, brief mortals!

...On second thought, there is no way I can be trusted with that kind of power.

Hm.

Repair Damage, to fix broken tech. Computers are at least close enough to constructs for government work.
Prestidigitation, for parlor tricks and such.
Fireball: because some days, you just want to incinerate stuff.

Eldariel
2009-08-09, 03:09 PM
Ice Assassin. The spell is HILARIOUS. Then, umm, Shapechange and Gate. Let people keep their minds; I'm going to become a God.

Set
2009-08-09, 03:13 PM
Spell-like. No costs.

Ooh, add Simulacrum to my list, instead of SMIX then!

'Cause who wouldn't want to run around stealing hair follicles from their favorite hawt celebrities and making eternally loyal duplicates of them?

Plus, combined with Polymorph Any Object, one can always turn oneself into a dragon, shed some scales, make some Simulacra of the dragon, and then PaO oneself back to a mere human.

A 'mere human' with an army of dragons! Mwa-ha-ha!

Jergmo
2009-08-09, 03:13 PM
:smallfrown: @ choosers of mind rape/etc. Eesh!

Mass Heal, Overland Flight, and Greater Teleport.


Ooh, add Simulacrum to my list, instead of SMIX then!

'Cause who wouldn't want to run around stealing hair follicles from their favorite hawt celebrities and making eternally loyal duplicates of them?

A little creepy!

jindra34
2009-08-09, 03:16 PM
Summon nature's ally 8
Dimension hop
and Heal
Reasoning is relatively simple to me but if anyone needs an explanation think air bombing earth elementals.

Tam_OConnor
2009-08-09, 03:19 PM
Re: Guidance over Moment of Prescience: I don't want power. Y'all ever heard of the Ring of Gyges (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Gyges)? I don't want to be able to do anything like that, hence the lack of real magic. Misusing Heal would take serious effort.

Forbiddenwar
2009-08-09, 03:37 PM
How to abuse heal or mass heal:
Actually, it would be hard. I imagine it is very effective against people who watch too much television (Zombies) :smallwink:
Also becoming a prophet and being worshipped comes to mind as abuse as well.

Thrawn183
2009-08-09, 03:50 PM
What's with all the time-stop love?

You get something really cool...once per day?

Alteran
2009-08-09, 03:52 PM
People considering Greater Teleport, remember this: there is no distance limit. You could teleport anywhere, and that's not limited to this planet. Hell, it's not even limited to this galaxy. You could go as far as you wanted, as long as you can pinpoint a target destination.

Myshlaevsky
2009-08-09, 03:53 PM
People considering Greater Teleport, remember this: there is no distance limit. You could teleport anywhere, and that's not limited to this planet. Hell, it's not even limited to this galaxy. You could go as far as you wanted, as long as you can pinpoint a target destination.

You really want something to ensure your survival on arrival then. What spell would be good for that? Protection from Energy?

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-09, 03:54 PM
Y'all ever heard of the Ring of Gyges (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Gyges)? I don't want to be able to do anything like that, hence the lack of real magic.

That implies that the individual was moral to begin with.


Misusing Heal would take serious effort.

Heal someone's eyes only to gouge them out again. Bleed someone to the edge, heal them back then repeat. Promise only to heal someone if they swear themselves to you as your eternal manservant.

It's not hard, nor does it take effort.


You really want something to ensure your survival on arrival then. What spell would be good for that? Protection from Energy?

A necklace of adaptation would do it.

Random832
2009-08-09, 04:27 PM
Is there a way to become Pun-Pun within these constraints?

quick_comment
2009-08-09, 04:31 PM
Is there a way to become Pun-Pun within these constraints?

Yes. Pauzau pauzau pauzau.

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-09, 04:32 PM
Is there a way to become Pun-Pun within these constraints?

Shapechange and Summon Monster I.

EDIT: Specifically: Shapechange into Sharrukh, summon Fiendish Viper, use Alter Form to give it Alter Reality, order it to give you Alter Reality with it's Alter Reality. Use your Alter Reality to remove it's Alter Reality. Done.

Yora
2009-08-09, 04:33 PM
Nor do I understand Alter Self, except street performer or disguise utilizations.
If you go really very RAW, you could only change into another human, because humans are the only humanoids in the world.

But if you go by what the spell enables you to do in a D&D game, it's pure awsome. You could grow wings and fly, or grow gills and breath underwater. Grow fur and don't die of hypotermia. Get Darkvision or Low-light vision. A second pair of arms. Scales to protect against knives and sharp things. Arms and legs literarily made for climbing and jumping.
Every natural or extraordinary ability a humanoid can have. And opposed to shapechange, you could do so 24 hours a day instead of just 3 hours.

And there is also lots of kinky stuff, if you're into certain things. :smallbiggrin:



But I agree regarding Time Stop. What practical use has time stop in everyday life? Get a 20 second lead against muggers. Scratch yourself in inappropiate places when everybody is looking at you?

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-09, 04:35 PM
But I agree regarding Time Stop. What practical use has time stop in everyday life? Get a 20 second lead against muggers. Scratch yourself in inappropiate places when everybody is looking at you?

Pants people.

Paganboy28
2009-08-09, 05:03 PM
Major Creation?


Gold is selling well at the moment and at 1 cubic foot per caster level, 20cubic feet of gold will do nicely thankyou.

Give it to the bank, make sure they change it into cash into my Swiss Bank account and then voila. I just can hire anyone else I like.

So it doesn't last in the bank's vault forever but then with the banks I can blame them for losing my gold and sue them for even more money!

I don't think the judge will believe them if they say it wasn't real gold it was only a transitory magical creation. Maybe they get commited as well...

Others would be Shapechange just because its awesome and has myriad uses, and maybe Time Stop so that I can spend a few more rounds at the pub drinking beer without the wife phoning and nagging me to come home.

Hmm... Dominate Person or Monster mind also be a contender....


EDIT>>

Thinking about this... all the gold in the world is pointless if I am going to die... so I need immortality. Resurrection or such would have to do in place of Timestop/Dominate.

Jack_Simth
2009-08-09, 05:16 PM
Thinking about this... all the gold in the world is pointless if I am going to die... so I need immortality. Resurrection or such would have to do in place of Timestop/Dominate.
The problem with Resurrection: You have to be alive to cast it.

Astral Seed or Fortunate Fate don't have that problem, though.

As to the money issue, look up True Creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/spells/trueCreation.htm). As the XP costs go away with spell-likes, you can get gold (or any noncomplex nonmagical item) that way, twice a day.

Yrcrazypa
2009-08-09, 05:29 PM
I'm thinking a mass repair spell, since I'm an aircraft mechanic for number one.
Then maybe moment of prescience and Bulls Strength. Unless there is a spell that gives Bulls Strength for longer than 20 minutes a day.

Jergmo
2009-08-09, 05:30 PM
To those who say Immortality: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhoWantsToLiveForever

Superglucose
2009-08-09, 05:32 PM
Mass Heal, Greater Teleport, Magnificent Feast.

Weezer
2009-08-09, 05:53 PM
Mass Heal
Greater Teleport
True Mind Switch

I can heal any hurt, go anywhere and live forever, sounds good to me

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-09, 05:54 PM
To those who say Immortality: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhoWantsToLiveForever

Dammit I just spent the last half hour reading random tropes. People please stop posting TVTropes links. I'll never sleep again.

Berserk Monk
2009-08-09, 06:02 PM
Stone skin, righteous might, and Regenerate

Etrus
2009-08-09, 06:04 PM
Hrm~
Animal Affinity. Ability score enhancement, yes please.
Permeable Form. 6-second incorporeality as an immediate action is just too fun for me to pass up.
Polymorph Any Object. Self explanatory, I hope.

I'd be rather happy with these. I considered some sort of resurrection or healing magic to extend my lifespan, but as I'm a first level person the irreversible con loss incurred by said spells would kill me rather quickly.

Cruiser1
2009-08-09, 06:13 PM
I'd like to pick a few spells that others haven't picked yet:


Demand: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/demand.htm) Rule the world or establish world peace with one spell, without ever needing to leave my bedroom or put myself at risk, and nobody ever knows it's me. "Osama Bin Laden, please turn yourself in to the nearest United States Authorities". ;)
Greater Scrying: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/scryingGreater.htm) Because knowledge is power, and I again never have to go anywhere or lose my cover to use it. Spy on world leaders, potential enemies, potential romantic partners, scientists in Area 51, etc. ;)
Mind Blank: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mindBlank.htm) So I'm immune to any other wise guys who also happened to receive three spells who might try to use the first two against me. Just because "not everyone" is getting these abilities (rule #5) doesn't mean I'm the only one. ;)

Innis Cabal
2009-08-09, 06:18 PM
Avasculate, Genisis, Polymorph

Tam_OConnor
2009-08-09, 07:04 PM
Oh, silly me, believing in the innate goodness of man.

Cynical selection:
Mind Blank
Greater Teleport
Righteous Glare (BoED; 7th, kills evil creatures with 5HD or less)

Indon
2009-08-09, 07:21 PM
Spell-like. No costs.

Man, and I was so looking forward to using people's Life Gems (http://www.lifegem.com/) as the material components for resurrecting them.

Also, with all the mindrapists in the thread, I might have to reconsider my Scorching Ray for Mind Blank...

chiasaur11
2009-08-09, 07:26 PM
Oh, silly me, believing in the innate goodness of man.


Hey, I never said people can't be trusted.

I said I can't be trusted. Big difference.

Milskidasith
2009-08-09, 07:29 PM
Oh, silly me, believing in the innate goodness of man.

Cynical selection:
Mind Blank
Greater Teleport
Righteous Glare (BoED; 7th, kills evil creatures with 5HD or less)

Why use Righteous Glare? At CL 20, Holy Word is exactly like it except it kills 10 HD or less and practically kills any others.

Drakevarg
2009-08-09, 07:31 PM
Alter Self
Ethreal Jaunt
Greater Invisibility

mistformsquirrl
2009-08-09, 07:47 PM
I forgot Mass Heal existed <x_X> so I'm going to switch my selection to:

Mass Heal

True Resurrection

Shapechange.


(The 10yr per level limit with a CL of 20 on True Resurrection is fantastic.

I could resurrect *Abe Lincoln* if I felt like. How cool is that? <[email protected]> Sadly Joan of Arc is long out of reach <;_:> she'd be cool to meet. *le sigh* <.<)

Tam_OConnor
2009-08-09, 07:54 PM
Because Holy Word also kills neutrals, silly! (inexplicably; see for yourself (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyword.htm); It is very strange).

Nai_Calus
2009-08-09, 08:05 PM
Heal, Regenerate, True Ressurection

I don't want to be immortal, rule the world or any of that claptrap. I want to help people.

Sanguine
2009-08-09, 08:38 PM
Avasculate, Genesis, Polymorph

Question:How are you getting to the Ethereal Plane to cast Genesis?

zarakstan
2009-08-09, 08:50 PM
Avasculate
Avasculate wouldn't prove to be that useful . . . 1st level commoner fear my avasculate I just halved your 4 hit points . . . :smallyuk:

Thrawn183
2009-08-09, 08:56 PM
Would certainly be intimidating though.

Yahzi
2009-08-09, 09:01 PM
Heal, Regenerate, True Ressurection
Apparently there's only one LG person in this whole thread... what is wrong with the rest of you? :smallamused:

Nai, one legitimate swap might be Zone of Truth for True Resurrection or Regeneration. The ability to find out which criminals and politicians are lying might do a lot more good than undoing a small number of murders or accidents.

Also, Mass Heal is a better choice. By the rules you can use it x1 a day, but it can heal "One or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart." Since that potentially could be an entire city, I assume all targets also have to be in the spells' 75 ft. range. Still... that's a lot of people. Especially if you have a multi-story building. By my rough calculation, it's 1766 people.

All of you choosing idiotic things like mindrape and teleport and minor creation, consider what kind of life you could have by healing 640,000 people a year of "ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, sickened, stunned, and poisoned."

Volkov
2009-08-09, 09:02 PM
Wish, Miracle, Reality Revision. I win.

Milskidasith
2009-08-09, 09:04 PM
Didn't read the first post at all, did you Volkov?

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-09, 09:05 PM
Apparently there's only one LG person in this whole thread... what is wrong with the rest of you? :smallamused:

More accurately: "What's wrong with that person?"

Degenerates are determined by the collective social outlook.

chiasaur11
2009-08-09, 09:06 PM
Apparently there's only one LG person in this whole thread... what is wrong with the rest of you? :smallamused:
[/I]

Pyromania and a distinct lack of a desire to have every single injured or sick person pester me 24/7.

Agrippa
2009-08-09, 09:09 PM
Heal, resurrection and time stands still with full 20 BAB.

Sanguine
2009-08-09, 09:15 PM
Heal, resurrection and time stands still with full 20 BAB.

You sure seem to think well of yourself considering nothing was mentioned about giving us more hit dice.

Obscurejones
2009-08-09, 09:16 PM
Are materiel components provided by the gods? :smallconfused:

Sanguine
2009-08-09, 09:16 PM
Are materiel components provided by the gods? :smallconfused:

Spell-likes no components of any kind

Obscurejones
2009-08-09, 09:19 PM
I see...
Tenser's Transformation, For fight scenes.
Cure Disease, For my family history of alzheimers.
Prestidigitation, for the pure joy it would give me.

Agrippa
2009-08-09, 09:21 PM
You sure seem to think well of yourself considering nothing was mentioned about giving us more hit dice.

I said BAB, not hit dice. I still 4 or 6 hit points plus cnostitution modifier. I just have the combat skills of 20th level warblade. That's all.

Sanguine
2009-08-09, 09:25 PM
I said BAB, not hit dice. I still 4 or 6 hit points plus cnostitution modifier. I just have the combat skills of 20th level warblade. That's all.

But the only way to get higher BAB is gaining Hit Dice. So what I was saying is what you just said: In your opinion you have the combat skills of a level 20 Warblade.

Agrippa
2009-08-09, 09:27 PM
But the only way to get higher BAB is gaining Hit Dice. So what I was saying is what you just said: In your opinion you have the combat skills of a level 20 Warblade.

I was assuming I'd get the combat skills of a 20th level warblade along with time stands still.

thegurullamen
2009-08-09, 09:28 PM
a) Magnificent Mansion
b) Greater Teleport
c) Heal

There. Now I can be a wandering hobo who only needs money for new clothes.

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-09, 09:28 PM
I was assuming I'd get the cambat skills of a 20th level warblade along with time stands still.

I'd hope so. Otherwise you just get to take 50% more turns than everyone else.

Sanguine
2009-08-09, 09:29 PM
I was assuming I'd get the combat skills of a 20th level Warblade along with time stands still.

What would make you believe that? Nothing in the first post indicated this although it would seem fair as the spells are Caster Level 20. Yes I corrected your spelling.

Dewey
2009-08-09, 10:10 PM
I'm gonna go with Heal, Fly, and Prestidigitation.

aje8
2009-08-09, 11:18 PM
Interesting.....

1. Mindrape: I can just modify parts of their memory.... or make them my best friends on command...... or become a guy with ALOT of connections.

2. Polymorph Any Object. Oh yes! I can so turn those pesky enemies into rocks..... I can always turn em back later. Disguise? Turn into something helpful! Seriously..... just the most useful spell ever.

I don't particularly WANT to fly...... my ears hurt in airplanes for heavensake. Greater Teleport is fine and all but can't you just take a plane? Or transform into like a Dragon? there are many option but actually flying/porting isn't the best one IMO.

I seriously considered Telekensis.... 6 Times per day, for 1 minute a piece I can simply control objects..... seems really useful. I can cheat at video games, mess with people, levitate test papers in front of me..... *evil cackle*.... ect.

I wish there was a spell that neatly and cleanly gave the caster eternal life..... though I might be able to just polymorph myself younger.... or you know polymorph whatever's wrong with my body better..... Sir, you have cancer. Polymorph myself into me only with regular cells replacing the cancerous cells.

3. So..... I guess Ima go with Scry Location..... scrying only people is extremely limiting IMO.

Nightson
2009-08-09, 11:21 PM
Polymorph, Greater Teleport, Heal

Renrik
2009-08-09, 11:23 PM
Hero's Feast, Create Water, and Heal.

Humanitarian!

Or, perhaps, simply one spell that creates food, heal, and talk to animals.

loopy
2009-08-09, 11:25 PM
Glibness - Woo, bluff checks!

Greater Invisibility - Rather flee than fight.

Not sure about the last... any suggestions?

Alteran
2009-08-09, 11:28 PM
Well, Teleport, Greater Teleport, or Dimension Door may cover escapes better than Greater Invisibility. Even normal Invisibility would be better, if you have no intention of fighting during your escape.

As for the third, Heal is always extremely useful.

John Campbell
2009-08-09, 11:51 PM
Apparently there's only one LG person in this whole thread... what is wrong with the rest of you? :smallamused:

Nai, one legitimate swap might be Zone of Truth for True Resurrection or Regeneration. The ability to find out which criminals and politicians are lying might do a lot more good than undoing a small number of murders or accidents.

I'm not Lawful Good; I'm Chaotic Good, which is better. I'm more concerned about defending myself and others from all the evil people throwing around compulsion effects like mind rape, dominate person, and zone of truth than I am about healing physical injuries. We've got doctors to do the latter, but there's no mundane means of defending against magical compulsion.


Also, Mass Heal is a better choice. By the rules you can use it x1 a day, but it can heal "One or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart." Since that potentially could be an entire city, I assume all targets also have to be in the spells' 75 ft. range. Still... that's a lot of people. Especially if you have a multi-story building. By my rough calculation, it's 1766 people.

"No two of which can be more than 30' apart" doesn't mean that every creature affected by the spell has to be within 30' of another creature affected. It means that every creature affected has to be within 30' of every other creature affected. They could've just called the zone of effect a 15' radius sphere; it would be functionally identical and a lot clearer.

Nohwl
2009-08-09, 11:53 PM
mage's disjunction--i'm probably not the only magic user, so it might come in handy
iron heart surge--i can get rid of colds and other things
holy word--it's my favorite spell

UnChosenOne
2009-08-09, 11:57 PM
I would like to have next spells:
a) Greater Teleport
b) Polymorph Any Object
c) Mindrape

Nai_Calus
2009-08-09, 11:58 PM
I'm not LG by any means. I'm CG. :P

ghost_warlock
2009-08-10, 12:03 AM
Eh.
Shapechange, Greater Teleport, Deep Slumber.

sentaku
2009-08-10, 12:05 AM
More accurately: "What's wrong with that person?"

Degenerates are determined by the collective social outlook.


Right because a an army of followers minions who that you believe that you will cure them of any problems they have, be it injury or or biological weapons. Not only that but being able to bring back to life the most worthy will make them devoted to his cause.

being able to dominate the president and threaten nuclear bombardment might sound cool but all that needs to happen is he or someone else makes his will save or just have someone stop him. But his plan wins in my book.

as for my spells

Prestidigitation - because greater teleport to the laundromat is not epic
Phantom Steed - because wasting greater teleport to get to school and back is not epic.
Greater teleport - because being able to see someone special any time is epic.

GoC
2009-08-10, 01:01 AM
Polymorph any object
True resurrection
Mind-Rape

Talic
2009-08-10, 01:13 AM
Shapechange: A lot of options here, and for 200 minutes? That's solid. Just over 3 hours a day, I can be anything, go anywhere. The espionage applications for this are staggering.

Permanent Illusion: Uses for this are pretty much defined by the imagination.

Mindblank: Useful defense, if we're all in the same world. I don't like mindrapists.

JonestheSpy
2009-08-10, 01:17 AM
I find the number of people on this thread who think Mindrape is nifty to be truly disturbing. We are talking about a spell from Book of Vile Darkness, y'know...

Myself, probably go with Shapechange, Mass Heal, and True Ressurection.
Greater Invisibilty is tempting, but hey, if you can Shapechange into an Invisible Stalker...

Xefas
2009-08-10, 01:35 AM
Greater Planar Ally, Sanctify the Wicked, Polymorph Any Object

First, I'd start summoning Outsiders to figure out if there's an afterlife and/or a correct religion.

If the proper religion is good aligned, or the best afterlife is good-aligned, I'd then hit myself with Sanctify the Wicked, forcing me to be Good for the rest of my life.

If there's no deities or afterlives or whatever, I start Polymorphing myself into younger versions of myself for the rest of my life out of fear of dieing and ceasing to exist.

Mr.Moron
2009-08-10, 02:12 AM
Not sure.

Genesis
True Creation
Gate

Maybe?

It's very hard to pick 3.

The Gilded Duke
2009-08-10, 02:13 AM
Honestly, I'd rather have Mage the Awakening powers... but with Dnd

Magnificent Mansion
Heal
Clone

Chineselegolas
2009-08-10, 03:13 AM
Greater Teleport. Go where I want three times a day, awesome

Tongues. 7 times a day for 200 minutes... 1400 minutes a day... So that is 40 minutes a day I can't understand every language. And the fun part, can cast it on other people. So useful for comunication

Glibness. So for 40 minutes a day my lies are hard to believe. The other 1400 minutes they are more likely than the actual truth, sign me up. Door won't stay closed for long.

Ganurath
2009-08-10, 03:21 AM
SLA, no costs? Alright then:

Reincarnation
Contingency
Heal

Heal may be replaced with a spell that can influence the results of percentile rolls.

Nevitan
2009-08-10, 03:22 AM
Power Word Kill.
Shapechange.
And that Immortality spell looks pretty appealing even though I can't find it.

PId6
2009-08-10, 03:43 AM
Astral Projection, Polymorph any Object, and Greater Teleport. Find a nice, safe place to stash my body, then Astral Project out into the world. My body would be in suspended animation, meaning I'd be essentially immortal, living a thousand lives with my astral self. Polymorph any Object allows me to turn myself into anything or anyone, so I can alter my form at will. And of course, Greater Teleport so I can go anywhere.

Or, alternatively, True Resurrection, Heal, and Flame Strike, then go start my own religion.

Leon
2009-08-10, 03:50 AM
Fabricate - Create a Business in Bulk Materials (Stone blocks, Wood planks etc)

Heal - As many others have covered, I'd most likely keep this one a quiet ability to save from being mobbed with demands to heal all and sundry, but when the needs must use it and request that they keep it a low profile

Telekinesis - Multitude of uses, i see it fitting well with the Fabrication business to move product about as well as in other situations such as self defense, travel (limited flight) helping others etc

Create Food and Water was a very close one for me to think about, i'd have to not worry about balancing food expenses again and i could help out those that need food (7 casts per day @ 60 persons = 420 Fed)

AslanCross
2009-08-10, 03:52 AM
Teleport
Disintegrate
Heal

Cespenar
2009-08-10, 03:57 AM
Wall of Iron, Fabricate, Glibness. :smalltongue:

Eldan
2009-08-10, 04:00 AM
Oh, I forgot one of the best ones: Genesis. No components and costs, remember? Heeelllooo demiplane full of unobtainiums such as mithral and adamantium.

Ravens_cry
2009-08-10, 04:00 AM
If I had an item instead of a spell that would make it
True Resurrection Greater Teleport, and Necklace of Adaptation, as Alter Self, the spell it's based on, doesn't seem to allow survival in a vacuum, unlike the item. I know of few creatures that can survive in a vacuum, and all are very tiny. So all the shape change spells are of little use for my intended purpose. And what is that purpose? Quite simple. Space exploration. What could be more awesome?

Admiral Squish
2009-08-10, 04:04 AM
Let's see... Servant Horde (CA). Five times a day for twenty hours or until dismissed, I get 17-27 unseen servants to do all my chores, and anything else I can think up for them to do. Help me cook, take out my garbage...

Now, I was debating between charm person and suggestion for a while, but I think for my purposes, charm person would work best. All day, I can make anyone my best buddy. I think I've got a pretty good charisma so I could pretty much do suggestion, but over and over again all day, as many times as I want to each person.

Third choice... Clairvoiant Sense. I'm a nosy bastard, so being able to invisibly poke my nose into other people's business is like a dream for me. Eight times a day, for twenty minutes, I can see and hear things I shouldn't be able to. Like a spy camera, but SO MUCH BETTER. Completely untraceable.

Eldan
2009-08-10, 04:06 AM
If I had an item instead of a spell that would make it
True Resurrection Greater Teleport, and Necklace of Adaptation, as Alter Self, the spell it's based on, doesn't seem to allow survival in a vacuum, unlike the item. I know of few creatures that can survive in a vacuum, and all are very tiny. So all the shape change spells are of little use for my intended purpose. And what is that purpose? Quite simple. Space exploration. What could be more awesome?

That gives me an idea... what spells would be needed to terraform mars? I'd probably start with Create Water, but then?

I mean, several of us would have to cooperate, I'd think, but if one of us can provide teleport for the rest, someone can create air (wasn't there a spell somewhere that created a sphere of breathable air around the caster?), and the rest can create water, we could at least cover considerable areas in a small time.

This might need it's own thread.

Sanguine
2009-08-10, 04:11 AM
Oh, I forgot one of the best ones: Genesis. No components and costs, remember? Heeelllooo demiplane full of unobtainiums such as mithral and adamantium.

Ah but you have to be on the Ethereal Plane to use Genesis.

Xenogears
2009-08-10, 04:15 AM
That gives me an idea... what spells would be needed to terraform mars? I'd probably start with Create Water, but then?

I mean, several of us would have to cooperate, I'd think, but if one of us can provide teleport for the rest, someone can create air (wasn't there a spell somewhere that created a sphere of breathable air around the caster?), and the rest can create water, we could at least cover considerable areas in a small time.

This might need it's own thread.

Might need someone with a mordenkainens mansion to take breaks in between the teraforming. Let me think. The problem with the creating air is that you would need to find a way to make it stick. Hmmm can't you tie a spell to a hallow effect and make it last as long as hallow? Something like that might help.

Oh wait that had a list of valid spells. nevermind....

Chrono22
2009-08-10, 04:21 AM
I'd say...
True Resurrection
Greater Teleport
Poymorph any Object

I'd probably use True Ressurection to bring back to life the greatest minds of the last two centuries, and my own family members (those that hadn't die of old age). To pay for this, I'd of course advertise.
I'd use polymorph any object to create large quantities of antimatter and neutronium to speed up scientific research. Or to create hypothetical matter, like undiscovered elements.
I'd use greater teleport to explore the solar system, and to introduce probes. If possible, I'd use Polymorph any object to create viable bases for operation on the planets or their satellites.

RelentlessImp
2009-08-10, 04:27 AM
1: Greater Teleport. Give me a picture of a place you want me to visit, and I'll be there in a (literal) flash.
2: Overland Flight. Just teleporting somewhere isn't enough. I gotta be able to fly and sight see, too. :P
3: True Mindswitch. I'll just keep hopping my way through various young 20somethings. It's immortality that only requires a new host every few years, or whenever you get tired of it.

Paganboy28
2009-08-10, 04:34 AM
OK... I have it now.

True Creation
2/day create anything (pretty much) I want and its permanent. Never worry about money again or instant takeaways, etc how much fun would that be!?

Polymorph any Object
In conjunction with True Creation could be useful and also I could polymorph myself into various things my deviant mind could think of....

Heal or Greater Restoration or Regeneration
Which ever one allows me to heal damage, including repairing genetic damage due to degeneration of chromosomes and such. Thus giving me longer life effectively.


And to those LG aligned people, to satisfy you all I could use True Creation to create food or finances for all those poor, famished people. Maybe even use PAO to turn dusty infertile soil into peat and such so they can grow crops. Plus the obvious "Super Dr" tricks with the healing bits.

I guess I could charge a reasonable fee for those services though, just to bring me back to my self-serving CN alignment. :smallbiggrin:

Ravens_cry
2009-08-10, 04:39 AM
That gives me an idea... what spells would be needed to terraform mars? I'd probably start with Create Water, but then?

I mean, several of us would have to cooperate, I'd think, but if one of us can provide teleport for the rest, someone can create air (wasn't there a spell somewhere that created a sphere of breathable air around the caster?), and the rest can create water, we could at least cover considerable areas in a small time.

This might need it's own thread.
There was a delightful thread to which I contributed mightily about terraforming a Bag of Holding to get around the 10 minute air restriction.
Many cat girls died. And it was glorious.
Sadly, I think it died in the last forum shuffle.
Doing it on the scale of a PLANET though would take a LOT of us, even if we used Pathfinders 'infinite cantraps' rule.

Sir Homeslice
2009-08-10, 05:04 AM
1.) Reverse Gender
2.) Orgasmic Vibrations
3.) Greater Teleport

Ah, BoEF. How you amuse me.

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-10, 05:31 AM
Heal: Sort out my girlfriend's health problems, then sell my services to the wealthy.

Wind Walk: Mega-flight of awesomeness. Plus DR 10/Magic, and since guns average about 6-8 damage if I remember d0 Modern correctly, I'm essentially immune to being mugged.

True Creation: Because it'll let me move out of the crap-hole I live in now. Also free stuff.

Utilitarian: Yes.
Still excellent choices: Yes (especially if you can convince Heal that getting old is a disease :smallbiggrin:)

hewhosaysfish
2009-08-10, 06:32 AM
1. Genesis (as spell)
2. Greater Plane Shift
3. Mordenkainenainenainen's Magnificent Mansion

The Plan:
1. Create own demi-plane.
2. Evacuate friends and family to demi-plane (i.e. everyone who will trust me to evacuate them to another plane of existence) before they all get Mindraped.
3. Grow my demi-plane by 180ft of radius per week.
4. Sit in MMM eating 9 course banquets (for up to 720 people!).
5. Make ninja raids to steal plants and animals from the Material Plane while we terraform the demi-plane.
6. ???
7. Not really profit, but at least we haven't all been mindraped.

Longcat
2009-08-10, 06:40 AM
Polymorph any Object
Can be used twice as often as Shapechange, and may even become permanent (by casting it twice in succession). Need immortality? Become undead/outsider. Need special abilities? Take whatever form suits you. Need to take a break from silly forum topics? Fly to Lloret de Mar :smalltongue:

Gate
I win.

Dominate Person
Mindrape, while superior, can only be used once per day.

Forevernade
2009-08-10, 06:46 AM
Greater Teleport

Mindrape (for good purposes only, like medical and physics research)

Heal (for obvious reasons, and also help me become the strongest person in the world - I could train twice my recovery capacity, and heal any other people I choose)

Ravens_cry
2009-08-10, 06:47 AM
1.) Reverse Gender
.
Ooh, that sounds fun to try out.

* * *

What?

herceg
2009-08-10, 06:50 AM
1.) Reverse Gender
2.) Orgasmic Vibrations
3.) Greater Teleport

Ah, BoEF. How you amuse me.

Ah, but do be careful with chocolate!!! :D

Though, seriously, it surprises me I had to read until page 6 for someone to mention it :)

For me? I dunno, I'd give it a far more lengthy consideration if it would be true, but now I'm lazy, so...

I guess I'd chose some healing (heal, obviously, for it's multi-purpose effect), some offensive power (when I want to whip someone's ass) like hmm... prismatic spray, and last but not least some transportation power (like greater teleport or overland flight or somesuch).

Hyozo
2009-08-10, 07:12 AM
Genesis
Plane Shift (both to enable Genesis, and to find out what else is out there. It works rather well offensively as well)
Heal

Sure, I might make alot of noise about being CE while in character, but out of character I'd just like "my own little world" to actually exist, and to be helpful when I chose to step out of it.:smalltongue:

Quincunx
2009-08-10, 07:23 AM
Greater Planar Ally, Sanctify the Wicked, Polymorph Any Object

First, I'd start summoning Outsiders to figure out if there's an afterlife and/or a correct religion.

If the proper religion is good aligned, or the best afterlife is good-aligned, I'd then hit myself with Sanctify the Wicked, forcing me to be Good for the rest of my life.

If there's no deities or afterlives or whatever, I start Polymorphing myself into younger versions of myself for the rest of my life out of fear of dieing and ceasing to exist.

Protection from (Evil if I must choose, but I hope I could learn the base spell and tweak the targeting)
Discern Lies (which doesn't tip off the targeted creature)
Dismissal

because summoning random outsiders without a means of vetting them is not the safest. You're welcome.

Hunter Noventa
2009-08-10, 07:32 AM
Polymorph Any Object- Not only can it be used to make myself younger...but I could turn useless rocks, or dirt, or garbage into precious metals and make a fortune without the need for major or true creation.

Greater Teleport- *PLOT* Need more be said?

Heal- Takes care of everything that PaO can't!

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-10, 07:38 AM
Polymorph Any Object- Not only can it be used to make myself younger...but I could turn useless rocks, or dirt, or garbage into precious metals and make a fortune without the need for major or true creation.

Greater Teleport- *PLOT* Need more be said?

Heal- Takes care of everything that PaO can't!


Poymorph Any Object

...This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, platinum, mithral, or adamantine. It also cannot reproduce the special properties of cold iron in order to overcome the damage reduction of certain creatures....

No precious metals for you. Whereas we True Creation takers can build a house out of gold bricks, using silver for cement if we want to :smalltongue:

Hunter Noventa
2009-08-10, 07:41 AM
No precious metals for you. Whereas we True Creation takers can build a house out of gold bricks, using silver for cement if we want to :smalltongue:

Oh feh, i can't see the SRD from where I am. Still, I'm sure there are plenty of ways it could be used to make money.

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-10, 07:45 AM
Oh feh, i can't see the SRD from where I am. Still, I'm sure there are plenty of ways it could be used to make money.

1. Turn pebbles into people.
2. Sell people into slavery.
3. Run like hell before 20 minute duration expires.
4. ???
5. Profit (and exercise)

SinsI
2009-08-10, 07:53 AM
No precious metals for you. Whereas we True Creation takers can build a house out of gold bricks, using silver for cement if we want to :smalltongue:
I'm quite sure creating diamonds out of graphite should work - it's the same chemical element and you can make such a transformation without any magic IRL.

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-10, 07:56 AM
I'm quite sure creating diamonds out of graphite should work - it's the same chemical element and you can make such a transformation without any magic IRL.

I know, just this morning I convinced my gf to let me turn her into a diamond if she croaks before I do. Thanks to who ever posted the lifegems link earlier :smallbiggrin:

Kris Strife
2009-08-10, 07:59 AM
Wish, Presitidigtation and Magic Missle.

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-10, 07:59 AM
Polymorph any Object
Can be used twice as often as Shapechange, and may even become permanent (by casting it twice in succession).

Shapechange is still better though. Shapechange into something with casting(A solar, sure). You now have that many more spells to use.

Eldan
2009-08-10, 08:05 AM
That's actually forbidden in the first post, when I'm reading it correctly: you can't use a spell to gain other spells.

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-10, 08:06 AM
That's actually forbidden in the first post, when I'm reading it correctly: you can't use a spell to gain other spells.

Technically shapechange just gives you forms. It's the Solar's fault for having other spells. :smallamused:

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-10, 08:09 AM
Technically shapechange just gives you forms. It's the Solar's fault for having other spells. :smallamused:

Solar has 22HD, you only have a CL of 20 though.

Although that's completely allowed. What you do with your spells is up to you. It's just other people who'll treat you like a cheese-monger for it.

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-10, 08:15 AM
Solar has 22HD, you only have a CL of 20 though.

Ah, you're right. So shapechange into a Black Ethergaunt instead.


Although that's completely allowed. What you do with your spells is up to you. It's just other people who'll treat you like a cheese-monger for it.

Theoretical exercises get theoretical answers. I'm the kind of guy who makes iron-clad wishes too.

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-10, 08:39 AM
Ah, you're right. So shapechange into a Black Ethergaunt instead.

Black Ethergaunts don't exist. They never did and they ever will. If you mention this nonsense again you'll be taken into the back by Steve the Titanic One.


Theoretical exercises get theoretical answers. I'm the kind of guy who makes iron-clad wishes too.

As Roy has proven (I forget which comic number), sometimes you can be TOO specific.

Eldan
2009-08-10, 08:42 AM
Ah, Ironclad wishes.

I fondly remember our old DM: whenever someone made an "ironclad" wish, he would just smile and say "okay". Then give us exactly what we wanted and wait for the paranoia to rise.

woodenbandman
2009-08-10, 08:51 AM
Well, I'm going to go with a few non-obvious choices.

I will go with Extended Jump, Persistent Expeditious Retreat, and Extended Spiderclimb.

Run at a speed of 60 feet per second and jump 50 feet in a single leap, while running up walls? Hell yes! Might consider replacing spiderclimb with restoration to make me practically immune to exhaustion, allowing he to run at 60 miles an hour, up buildings, and jump across the street. Sure, it's not as efficient as flying, but it's probably a heck of a lot more fun.

Alternately, instead of Extended Jump, use Overland Flight to do the jumping. Use spider climb on a persistent version of that spell that increases your maneuverability by two steps.

EDIT: Nobody has posted Shapechange, Psychic Chirurgy, and Gate yet? Nobody wants to ascend to pun-pun hood by giving themselves assume supernatural ability as an SLA, gating themselves to the serpent kingdoms, gating in X Y and Z, and eventually getting the Manipulate Form special ability?

Jackel
2009-08-10, 09:42 AM
I would take:

1. Gate
2. Moment of Prescience
3. Shapechange

I'd Shapechange into a creature with an absurd amount of charisma, use Moment of Prescience, either Gate to or call the Gods again, and ask reaaallly nicely for more spells. :smalltongue:

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-10, 09:44 AM
EDIT: Nobody has posted Shapechange, Psychic Chirurgy, and Gate yet? Nobody wants to ascend to pun-pun hood by giving themselves assume supernatural ability as an SLA, gating themselves to the serpent kingdoms, gating in X Y and Z, and eventually getting the Manipulate Form special ability?

You only need Shapechange and Summon Monster I. Anything else is just padding.


As Roy has proven (I forget which comic number), sometimes you can be TOO specific.

Thats why you wish first that your wishes not be distorted in any way nor any information to be omitted from your wishes or the results thereof a wish.

Then wish for eternal servitude while observing and obeying both the letter and intent of your desires from whom/whatever is granting your wishes.

Then you can be stupid with your wishes.

Cyrion
2009-08-10, 09:52 AM
Greater Teleport
Major Image
Scrying

AstralFire
2009-08-10, 09:55 AM
Persistent Fly, Martial Spirit Stance (punch a bag, get half my health back!), Persistent Glibness.

paddyfool
2009-08-10, 10:20 AM
On shapechange and spellcasting:

1) By RAI, any use of this to grant further spells (by changing into a Solar, Black Ethergaunt, Efreeti or whatever) should be banned as you aren't meant to be able to use a spell to grant further spells.

2) Shapechange works as changing into any creature with which you are familiar. Somehow, I don't think reading MM (X) counts as familiarity, so you'd be limited to real-world creatures (which is still incredibly cool) unless you also took Gate and spent some time familiarising yourself with various summons.

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-10, 10:23 AM
2) Shapechange works as changing into any creature with which you are familiar.

Reading the MM gives me everything I need to know about it. I'd say you'd be intimately familiar with a being of pure law and good after you've read their MM entry. Really though, it's a theoretical exercise for fun. Don't be "Hey guys, no having fun!" guy.

Blackjackg
2009-08-10, 10:33 AM
Probably Greater Teleport, Remove Disease and Stoneskin (or some better DR-granting spell, if such a thing exists). That way, I can teleport to some random hospital, cure seven people of their deadly cancer, then teleport out again before the howling masses show up. And if some jerk gets it in their head to kill me, their blows will just bounce off my mighty hide. Being able to come back from the dead is cool and all, but I'd rather just not die in the first place.

Rixx
2009-08-10, 10:43 AM
I find it startling how many of you want to use your newfound powers to kill people!

Lysander
2009-08-10, 10:44 AM
Mass Heal - Why yes pilgrims, flock to me for healing. Once a day I'll heal an entire auditorium, pro bono. Please put your name on the waiting list and the staff of my non-profit will issue a number. Donations are welcome.

Divination - How better to manage my healing empire (AND THE WORLD MUAHAHA) than with detailed knowledge of the future. How detailed? 6 answers about the future each day detailed! I'd avoid danger and find out the most beneficial actions I could take for myself and others.

Shapechange - Best 200 minutes ever. Besides fun, it's great for travel and protection. Also lets me do things like appear on television as a glowing angel when I talk about the future.

On the whole, I'd be an incredibly powerful and benevolent entity.

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-10, 10:52 AM
On the whole, I'd be an incredibly powerful and benevolent entity dictator.

Fixed that for you. :smalltongue:

Lysander
2009-08-10, 11:24 AM
Fixed that for you. :smalltongue:

Haha. Half-true. I wouldn't want to rule the world, but those powers would certainly let me control it. And I wouldn't need most other spells, however tempting they may be.

Mindrape? Suggestion? Other than the ethical problems with those spells why do I want to magically force loyalty or obedience when simple power or gratitude can do the same thing?

Teleport? Flying? Why do I need to teleport when I can have my own private jet. Not quite as good, but good enough. Flying? Shapechange is flying.

Resurrection? I can avoid death for myself and for friends by carefully asking about the future. And I don't want everyone in the world coming to me to ask on behalf of their relative. How could I ever decide with just 3 spells a day? There would be no peace. I'm better off just healing rooms full of people of all diseases, blindness, and insanity.

Immortality? Pretty much anything in DnD that grants immortality is too twisted for me to want to get involved with.

Fireball? Disintegrate? If you plan on actually fighting with your powers you're thinking far too small.

AstralFire
2009-08-10, 11:29 AM
Persistent Glibness, Persistent Fly are way more fun than shapechange for me, because I like staying in a human form.

Also, I become the best marketing expert ever.

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-10, 11:33 AM
...Teleport? Flying? Why do I need to teleport when I can have my own private jet. Not quite as good, but good enough. Flying? Shapechange is flying.

True, but flapping your wings for hours on end is gonna tire you out. No such problems with Wind Walk, it's just you being blown around while you weigh nothing.


Immortality? Pretty much anything in DnD that grants immortality is too twisted for me to want to get involved with.

PAO yourself into yourself when you were 20 every few decades. Job done, no undeadiness needed.


Fireball? Disintegrate? If you plan on actually fighting with your powers you're thinking far too small.

Disintegrate might be useful.

Lysander
2009-08-10, 11:44 AM
True, but flapping your wings for hours on end is gonna tire you out. No such problems with Wind Walk, it's just you being blown around while you weigh nothing.

PAO yourself into yourself when you were 20 every few decades. Job done, no undeadiness needed.

Disintegrate might be useful.

Hmm. PAO might be better than Shapechange I suppose if it's that powerful. I thought it was temporary though.

And while flying and disintegrate would be useful, would they be useful in the context of the modern world?


Persistent Glibness, Persistent Fly are way more fun than shapechange for me, because I like staying in a human form.

Also, I become the best marketing expert ever.

Glibness is fun, but only if you need to lie. I would be able to truthfully say "here's what's going to happen in the future, what you should do about it, and I suggest you do it if you want to qualify for healing someday"

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-10, 11:51 AM
Hmm. PAO might be better than Shapechange I suppose if it's that powerful. I thought it was temporary though.

And while flying and disintegrate would be useful, would they be useful in the context of the modern world?

PAO depends on circumstances. Turning a human into another human gives it a Permanent duration. Turning a human into a house would be less permanent (but it would be endlessly hilarious when coupled with the line "I'm going to enter you, and spend the night <faux seductive look>)

Flying can be replicated by other, more versatile spells, so on it's own it's not so great, but actually flying is just plain awesome.

And disintegrate...errr...dunno...building tunnels I guess.

Sliver
2009-08-10, 11:55 AM
PAO yourself into yourself when you were 20 every few decades. Job done, no undeadiness needed.

And then you die because someone dispelled!

Thrawn183
2009-08-10, 11:58 AM
As far as transportation goes, it's not too bad if you have money. (ie. you don't have to spend time doing small stuff because you can pay somebody else to do it for you!) So I'm not totally on top of the whole flight/teleportation thing.

Instead, I'd go with Teleportation Circle and Permanency. You could make an absurd amount of money off this and no one would complain. Though if immigration became an issue you might want to keep destinations to within the same country only.

This would also be extremely useful for the world (think how inefficient and well... bad for the world travelling is.)

Did I mention easy transportation to space?

I'm holding off on the third one till I have more time to decide. Might have to go with Giant Vermin though.

Swok
2009-08-10, 12:00 PM
True Creation for never having to worry about money again. And after a while, it takes on an entirely different use, since everything created is permanent.

Polymorph Any Object for it's sheer utility.

Heal, again for how useful it is.


Also, it's really scary some of the themes people could stir up for this.

Defenestrating Sphere, Control Weather, Call Lightning. For the destructive amongst us.

Create Greater Undead. Command Undead. Who cares about the last some crazy bastard has a pyramid controlled army of Shadows/Spectres that sweep through the land.

Anyone with Greater Consumptive Field.

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-10, 12:02 PM
And then you die because someone dispelled!

That's ok, no-ones taken Dispel Magic as a choice yet :smallcool:

Edit: PAO yourself into something with an engine (I'm thinking Starscream), bingo bango, super speed flying with non of flapping.

Sliver
2009-08-10, 12:05 PM
That's ok, no-ones taken Dispel Magic as a choice yet :smallcool:

Well it doesn't say that only people on these boards get to pick spells. You probably will find someone in the world that took powers that will allow him to cancel the powers of others.

AstralFire
2009-08-10, 12:06 PM
Glibness is fun, but only if you need to lie.

Bluff technically is not only used while lying, but also while telling a hard to believe truth.

Hence: Best. Advertiser. Ever.

Lysander
2009-08-10, 12:16 PM
Bluff technically is not only used while lying, but also while telling a hard to believe truth.

Hence: Best. Advertiser. Ever.

Ah, but why be a character on Mad Men when you could instead be something close to a demigod? It's like having three wishes and wishing to be CEO of McCann Erickson instead of becoming Superman.

AstralFire
2009-08-10, 12:25 PM
Ah, but why be a character on Mad Men when you could instead be something close to a demigod? It's like having three wishes and wishing to be CEO of McCann Erickson instead of becoming Superman.

Because I don't really want to be a deity. :P

Delaney Gale
2009-08-10, 12:28 PM
Greater Teleport. I'm in a long-distance relationship, this one is a no-brainer. Plus, I could kill for a gyros pitaban right now, and they just don't make them outside of Hungary.

Tongues. It's my life goal to become a polyglot, but it's hard, and still doesn't let you communicate with everyone.

Unseen Servant. I don't care if picking this one keeps me from getting something awesome like blowing stuff up, it means I DON'T HAVE TO DO THE DISHES.

Runner-up:

Black Pearl of Doubt. Every time you miss me, I get harder to hit? That would be AWESOME for fencing. Still not as awesome as not having to do the dishes.

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-10, 12:29 PM
Heal, Polymorph Any Object, True Creation.

Final choices just in case this comes true and they take what we posted as our choices.

...Stop looking at me like that....:smallredface:


...Unseen Servant. I don't care if picking this one keeps me from getting something awesome like blowing stuff up, it means I DON'T HAVE TO DO THE DISHES.

It's called Prestidigitation (or Magnificent Mansion, which nets you loads of Servants).

Delaney Gale
2009-08-10, 12:33 PM
It's called Prestidigitation (or Magnificent Mansion, which nets you loads of Servants).

I thought about Magnificent Mansion, but I'm already paying the mortgage on my house, and there's no magical power in the world that'll get me out of that. I also thought about Prestidigitation, which was especially tempting because I could also warm tea or change my hair color without dye... hm, might have to reconsider that one... but if I had an Unseen Servant I wouldn't even have to think about cleaning. It would just be done.

PumpkinJack
2009-08-10, 12:33 PM
I'm not particularly interested in killing people or controlling their minds since technically I can do both of those things now and I don't. I'm also not interested in spending the rest of my life healing people since I didn't become a doctor for a reason. BUT I do want to help out the human race. Getting selfish powers, while fun, would be very lonely and isolating. You'd be the only one who could do that stuff. If people found out about it, they'd never see you the same way again. So which spells will give me the most bang for my buck while letting me continue to live a normal, if not marginally improved life?

My ideas:
1) Control Weather - Heal is good and all but I think you could have a greater effect on the human race by using this spell. Protect areas from approaching hurricanes, stop droughts, all that stuff. Plus it would be fun.
2) Divination - This one is a no brainer. Being able to tell the future would help the world in ways that no other D&D spell could manage. And of course, I could win the lottery once. :)
3) Hallow - This one isn't as directly helpful as Heal but it lasts for a frickin' year with a variety of spell effects! Cast Zone of truth on all the courthouses and Aid on all the hospitals. Over the course of a year, those spells might make a bigger difference than Mass Heal. Also, I was thinking about Remove Fear; how many stupid human actions are motivated by fear? How much suffering would you ease by setting up year-long Remove Fear effects in strategic places?

I don't think the world's problems can be solved since they've been created by human nature and you'll always be stuck with that if you don't get rid of the humans. Still, making the world a slightly better place would be worth it. What I like the most is that I can do all of this without becoming The Great Benefactor or The New Superman or anything like that. I can improve the world and make my life a little more comfortable.

Felyndiira
2009-08-10, 01:53 PM
With the sheer number of people with mind rape, shapechange, and other ridiculously uber powers, I'm almost tempted to choose the following:

Discern Location
Gate
Sanctify the Wicked

Just so that I can be a vigilante and purify one would-be uber world dominator per day. Still, in the scope of the original question, though, and without consideration of mind rapists running around, I'd probably choose slightly less glamorous abilities, since at least I can be reasonably trusted with those (as opposed to Mind Rape):

Phantasmal Killer (There's one thing to note about getting rid of people that I hate: invisible death with unknown causes > giant solar transformation + epic smiteth)
Divination
Heal

Quirinus_Obsidian
2009-08-10, 02:29 PM
Synesthete


Synesthete
Psychometabolism
Level: Psion/wilder 1, psychic warrior 1
Display: Material
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
Power Points: 1

You receive one kind of sensory input when a different sense is stimulated. In particular, you can either feel light or feel sound. You can shift your stimulated sense between these two options once per round as a swift action. Your senses continue to work normally as well, unless they are impaired for some reason.

Your face must be uncovered to use this power, because it is the skin of your face that acts as the sensory receiver.

If you are feeling light by absorbing ambient light onto your skin, you have your normal visual abilities (except for darkvision), even if your eyes are closed or you are blinded. If your eyes are working normally, you gain a +4 circumstance bonus on all Spot and Search checks. While feeling light, you are immune to gaze attacks.

If you are feeling sound by absorbing sound onto your skin and your ears are working normally, the expanded audio input provides you with a +4 circumstance bonus on Listen checks.

Psionic or magical displacement effects, invisibility effects, illusions, and other similar effects confuse your synesthete senses just as they would your normal senses.

You can also use this power to see sound if you are deafened, or hear light if you are blinded, thus removing all penalties associated with either condition (though you gain no bonuses for using the power in this way if you are not deafened or blinded).


Wall Walker

Wall Walker
Psychoportation
Level: Psychic warrior 2
Display: Material
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 min./level
Power Points: 3

You can walk on vertical surfaces or even traverse ceilings (you need not make Climb checks to traverse these surfaces). Because of the need to keep at least one foot in contact with the wall or ceiling at all times, you cannot jump or use the run action, and you can move at only half speed.

You retain your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, if any, and opponents gain no special bonuses against you.


Calm Emotions

Calm Emotions

Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2, Law 2 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Area: Creatures in a 20-ft.-radius spread Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round/level (D) Saving Throw: Will negates Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell calms agitated creatures. You have no control over the affected creatures, but calm emotions can stop raging creatures from fighting or joyous ones from reveling. Creatures so affected cannot take violent actions (although they can defend themselves) or do anything destructive. Any aggressive action against or damage dealt to a calmed creature immediately breaks the spell on all calmed creatures.

This spell automatically suppresses (but does not dispel) any morale bonuses granted by spells such as bless, good hope, and rage, as well as negating a bard’s ability to inspire courage or a barbarian’s rage ability. It also suppresses any fear effects and removes the confused condition from all targets. While the spell lasts, a suppressed spell or effect has no effect. When the calm emotions spell ends, the original spell or effect takes hold of the creature again, provided that its duration has not expired in the meantime.

Cespenar
2009-08-10, 02:30 PM
Hmm, another batch.

Persistent Fox's Cunning, Mass
Persistent Owl's Wisdom, Mass
Dimension Door

To be able to have an intellectual conversation anytime I want, anywhere I want. :smalltongue:

ritztastic
2009-08-10, 02:35 PM
Just so that I can be a vigilante and purify one would-be uber world dominator per day. Still, in the scope of the original question, though, and without consideration of mind rapists running around, I'd probably choose slightly less glamorous abilities, since at least I can be reasonably trusted with those (as opposed to Mind Rape)

Well, I don't know about others, but I didn't choose Mind Rape for world domination. Even though it's an Evil spell, it can have good uses.

A) Mind Rape convicts into productive citizens.
B) Sex offender? Not anymore! Get rid of those urges in six seconds.
c) A spy has government secrets and must be executed? Why bother? Wipe his memory of them.

Hm... Mind Rape lets you alter memories... could you implant knowledge with it? If so, one could leech knowledge from a dying scientist and give it to a younger one. Less studying, more curing cancer!

And, of course, the possibility of GateRaping a Balor into servitude. Heck, do it repeatedly to reduce the armies of the Abyss. And get lots of muscle to back you.

Draz74
2009-08-10, 03:14 PM
Psionic Divination
Scholar's Touch
Prestidigitation

There. No major disruption of the normal processes of life, such as Heal or anything military or Teleportation would lead to (as you became a superhero).

But every day, I can receive supernatural guidance about the best way to handle my toughest 6 choices. (And without the material components or potential crises of faith that could be involved in the Divine version.) This will make my love life, my big tests, my career choices, and so forth much simpler. And can help avoid any other crazy unforseeables, such as getting mugged in a dark alley.

And every day, I can read and understand any nine books in 54 seconds. PhD program? Going to be easy. Understanding of the world's greatest wisdom and philosophy? Hopefully going to come with time. Craving to waste time every day by letting my mind wander and escape? Now not so time-consuming; hopefully my Internet surfing addiction will be sated.

And every day, for 10 hours, I can go about performing minor acts to brighten up other people's days in small acts of service in my spare time -- giving out free carwashes, joking around with random sound and light effects, or just making food taste really good.

John Campbell
2009-08-10, 03:25 PM
Using sanctify the wicked makes you just as bad as all the other mindrapists, however much the Lawful propaganda machine tries to pass it off as "Exalted". And using mind rape on evil people doesn't make it any less an evil thing to do.

Fortunately, mind blank is an absolute defense against both spells, plus just about everything else in the Enchantment school.

Ninetail
2009-08-10, 03:35 PM
I think most of you are thinking too small.

While it'd be fun to do things like teleport around or fly, if I were looking to make a big impact, I'd take:

Maximized Empowered Fox's Cunning
Maximized Empowered Owl's Wisdom
Maximized Empowered Eagle's Splendor

3.0 versions, of course. That gives me and two others a +7 or +8 to Int, Wis, and Cha that lasts for 20 hours, so my entire waking life. More, if Intensify is allowed. What couldn't you do with that?

Although it's tempting to substitute one of the three for Divination or Commune. Knowledge is power.

Now, if we need to stick to 3.5, the enhancement buffs aren't quite as good. In that case, I'd look at:

Commune or Divination
Maximized Awaken
Polymorph Any Object

Might be a better array anyway -- lots of friendly supergeniuses working on my behalf is better than me and a couple of good friends -- but I'm egotistical enough to want to benefit personally if I can.

Kallisti
2009-08-10, 04:09 PM
It really disturbs me how many people want Mindrape. It's a corrupt spell--irredeemably evil and it carries a corruption cost! Just take Programmed Amnesia instead! It lets you read and edit a creature's entire life story and every memory they have, you don't get zapped every time you cast it, and it's not inherently evil...

Personally, I'd rather not rule the world, though. I'd never be able to interact normally with people ever again...

I'd take:
Polymorph Any Object: Immortality, eternal youth, ability to change my appearance, fix broken things, and if you piss me off? Hey, look! FOr the next five minutes I'm a great wyrm red dragon! Burn, annoying creature, burn! Oh, and it gets me freakin' immortality...
Moment of Prescience: Twice per day, I can get +25 on a skill check, thus succeeding beyond the wildest dreams of normal mortals. Someone knows I got spells? *Moment of Prescience: +25 bluff* Superpowers? No, I don't have superpowers... Taking a test? *Moment of Prescience: +25 knowlegde check* Aced! Going on stage? *Moment of Prescience: +25 Perform (Acting)* Hey, you first level commoners! I'm the equivalent of a twentieth level bard!
Heal: Usable more times per day than mass heal. Something awful happened to me that PaO won't fix? Heal! All better. That, and I could save the lives of four people per day, and if people found me out, Moment of Prescience to bluff them.

Basically, using Moment of Prescience, I can succeed briliantly in any career I choose, and thanks to Heal and PaO I'm immortal. Why conquer the world and deal with administrative headaches all day when I can set myself up as the world's most beloved movie star/world's most brilliant scientist/pretty much anything else I want, then when I get bored use PaO to become a new person and do something else for a decade or two..or three..or twelve..

Johel
2009-08-10, 04:09 PM
Ok, let's say :

Overland fly
Dominate person
Invisibility, Greater

Overland fly (5th Level Spell, CL 20, duration 20 hours)
Because every little child has always wanted to fly in the air.
Also, the duration means I only need to use it once a day and don't have to worry about things like time or "magic fuel".

Dominate person (5th Level Spell, CL 20, 5 daily uses, duration 20 days)
Because having 100 worshippers is the best way to take care of problems.
Sure, Mass charm person could make you "Everyone's best friend" but who want artificial friendship when you can get nearly godhood ?

Invisibility, Greater (4th Level Spell, CL 20, 6 daily uses, duration 20 rounds)
For these times where your "worshippers" make their will saves. That's about 12 minutes a day, which is enough to get away after jumping through the window. Also, which god would reveal itself to mere mortals ? :smallamused:

Polymorph Any Object (9th Level Spell, CL 20, 1 daily use, duration variable) :
Because some people are more intelligent than me and thought of it. (Kallisti) Oh !! And immortality is the way to go for a new god. :smallwink:

Johel
2009-08-10, 04:20 PM
Polymorph Any Object: Immortality, eternal youth, ability to change my appearance, fix broken things, and if you piss me off? Hey, look! FOr the next five minutes I'm a great wyrm red dragon! Burn, annoying creature, burn! Oh, and it gets me freakin' immortality...

Wait... how does it give you immortality ?
I mean, sure, you can take the body of a young man and stay young... but does it really work that way ?

If yes, I understand people get the spell. I might even drop Invisibility for it (be practical first, be cool next, you know... :smallwink:)

Very good thought for Moment of Prescience. Even if it's only twice a day, that's still more than enough to make a living. Would the fame really be that enjoyable if you know you've cheated to get it, though ?

ritztastic
2009-08-10, 04:21 PM
It really disturbs me how many people want Mindrape. It's a corrupt spell--irredeemably evil and it carries a corruption cost! Just take Programmed Amnesia instead! It lets you read and edit a creature's entire life story and every memory they have, you don't get zapped every time you cast it, and it's not inherently evil...

I haven't any errata for the Book of Vile Darkness, so if that changes this, I stand corrected, but:
Mindrape does not have a corruption cost. The only 9th level Corrupt spell is Apocalypse From the Sky.

Further, Mindrape's duration is Instantaneous; it cannot be dispelled. Perhaps a Miracle could fix it, but anything short of that is ineffective.

And just because a spells has an Evil descriptor doesn't mean it can't benefit society. I'd prefer to not derail this into a discussion of morality, though, so I'll drop it at this.

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-10, 04:22 PM
Wait... how does it give you immortality ?
I mean, sure, you can take the body of a young man and stay young... but does it really work that way ?

If yes, I understand people get the spell. I might even drop Invisibility for it (be practical first, be cool next, you know... :smallwink:)

Very good thought for Moment of Prescience. Even if it's only twice a day, that's still more than enough to make a living. Would the fame really be that enjoyable if you know you've cheated to get it, though ?

Shifting from Human to Human is permanent. Also lets me grow a jet engine out my backside and shoot around at full speed. :smallcool:

The Flyin' Lion
2009-08-10, 04:23 PM
If you want to take the evil route:
Greater Consumptive Field
Greater Teleport
Stoneskin
You pop in, kill a whole lot of people, and then leave. And, most guns can't hurt you. Those that can, well, you'll just need to keep well hidden with Greater Teleport

For a Good Guy:
Mass Heal
True Creation
Greater Teleport
Seems obvious the uses. Greater teleport somewhere that needs help (food, resources), give them stuff, then go home and heal a hundred people. They can fit into a 15 foot radius circle....

For a Neutral Guy:
True Creation
Grreater Teleport
Greater Consumptive Field
Make an exchange for your services. If they break the contract, GCF them to bits.

Johel
2009-08-10, 04:29 PM
Shifting from Human to Human is permanent. Also lets me grow a jet engine out my backside and shoot around at full speed. :smallcool:

Yeah, I know for the "human to human" thing.
But if it really works... damn it !! Why would high-level wizards even WANT to become liches ? They can basically polymorph themselves into... Oh, no, I get it : they would lose their intellect, as you're polymorphed into a random member of your species. So, the thing would only work once...and then your stuck as "Bob the peasant".

Great thinking.

I'll edit my choice, erase "Greater Invisibility" and take "Polymorph Any Object", then.
GG to Kallisti for the thought.

Jack_Banzai
2009-08-10, 04:42 PM
Meteor Swarm
Heroes' Feast
Heal

who would like to join my island nation?

Johel
2009-08-10, 04:47 PM
Meteor Swarm
Heroes' Feast
Heal

who would like to join my island nation?

LoL

So, basically, you would feed us, heal us or kill us ?
That's ruthless but might work if you got some meatshields allies.

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-10, 04:48 PM
Johel may I just say, I love your avatar.

Johel
2009-08-10, 04:54 PM
Thank you. :smallsmile:

(Still about Polymorph Any Object)


This spell can also be used to duplicate the effects of baleful polymorph, polymorph, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute metal to wood, or transmute rock to mud.


Since it duplicate the effects of many transmutation spells, is it still ok to have it ? Your OP said "3. You may not choose abilities that can be used to mimic other abilities such as Wish, Limited Wish, Miracle, Shadow Evocation, Reality Revision etc etc.", so I'm curious. :smallamused:

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-10, 04:55 PM
Thank you. :smallsmile:

(Still about Polymorph Any Object)



Since it duplicate the effects of many transmutation spells, is it still ok to have it ? Your OP said "3. You may not choose abilities that can be used to mimic other abilities such as Wish, Limited Wish, Miracle, Shadow Evocation, Reality Revision etc etc.", so I'm curious. :smallamused:

You're lucky you have such a good avatar, a lesser poster would have been turned into a Shocker Lizard for that :smalltongue:

But yes it's allowed.

RandomNPC
2009-08-10, 05:35 PM
Greater Invisibility
Permanancy (SP?)
See Invisible

yes, i would live in a see through house, with see through things, but everyone around me wouldn't know it.

more seriously

Overland Flight
Magic Missile
Protection from Arrows

Thats offencive, defencive, and tactical movement. Yeay me!

John Campbell
2009-08-10, 05:40 PM
It really disturbs me how many people want Mindrape. It's a corrupt spell--irredeemably evil and it carries a corruption cost! Just take Programmed Amnesia instead! It lets you read and edit a creature's entire life story and every memory they have, you don't get zapped every time you cast it, and it's not inherently evil...
It doesn't have the [Evil] descriptor. That doesn't mean that using it isn't inherently evil.

Fortunately, mind blank protects against mind rape even when it doesn't say "Evil" on the box. Even when it says "Exalted" on the box.


Further, Mindrape's duration is Instantaneous; it cannot be dispelled. Perhaps a Miracle could fix it, but anything short of that is ineffective.
There are other spells that will repair parts of it. Break enchantment will undo much of the damage; that's why I took it. Greater restoration will get other parts, and will completely repair programmed amnesia.


And just because a spells has an Evil descriptor doesn't mean it can't benefit society. I'd prefer to not derail this into a discussion of morality, though, so I'll drop it at this.
And just because a spell has an Exalted descriptor doesn't mean that it's not still evil.

Sir Homeslice
2009-08-10, 06:02 PM
It really disturbs me how many people want Mindrape.

Personally, it concerns me how many people want CL/S/CW and Heal and anything of that nature.

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-10, 06:11 PM
And just because a spell has an Exalted descriptor doesn't mean that it's not still evil.

..Uh. No. That is exactly what it means. An [Exalted] spell is so Good that most [Exalted] spells have higher aura strengths than epic level Paladins of Heironous. [Exalted], by it's very definition, is non-evil to the maximum.

Rhawin
2009-08-10, 06:27 PM
Polymorph Any Object
True Mind Switch

Hmmm... what does a sandwich need? To be tasty. Prestidigitation.

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-10, 06:33 PM
Personally, it concerns me how many people want CL/S/CW and Heal and anything of that nature.

What's wrong with Heal? Yes it's against the natural order of the world, but so is Teleporting.

Felyndiira
2009-08-10, 06:33 PM
Using sanctify the wicked makes you just as bad as all the other mindrapists, however much the Lawful propaganda machine tries to pass it off as "Exalted". And using mind rape on evil people doesn't make it any less an evil thing to do.

Fortunately, mind blank is an absolute defense against both spells, plus just about everything else in the Enchantment school.

Unfortunately, D&D rules says that Sanctify the Wicked is one of the most ultimate forces of good (a self-sacrifice spell, no less). {TEXT removed}

Individual perceptions of morality aside, sanctify the wicked is very different from mind rape in scope. One cannot, for example, use sanctify to build power for himself or dominate people to his side; sanctify can ONLY be used to make people convert to the D&D ideals of good. The analogy is preaching to a serial murderer and, over time, making him realize the errors of his ways; the spell isn't even mind-affecting in that according to the description (it doesn't have the mind-affecting descriptor, and is very universal in application): the soul finds HIS OWN WAY towards alignment salvation.

Mind rape, however, has the evil descriptor for a reason - you're basically taking someone's mind and reshaping it for your own benefit. Your benefit might temporarily be aligned with the greater good, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that you are, by sheer force of mental destruction, reshaping another individual to suit your own perceptions of what is good. It is one of the most easily abused spells in the entire game setting, has an explicit [EVIL] descriptor, is almost impossible to remove (break enchantment only breaks some uses of it; it take a wish or miracle to break the "I rewrite your memories altogether so you now regard me as your unquestioned lord" part of the spell), and violates another's individuality at the caster's whim.

tl;dr Even abstract morals aside, you can abuse mind rape easily (and I expect that quite a few people will, especially the ones that also have clauses for immortality). Sanctify the wicked is verily not abusable. Very different stories.


P.S.

Sanctify the Wicked
Necromancy [GOOD]

Mind Rape
Enchantment [EVIL, Mind-Affecting]

John Campbell
2009-08-10, 06:41 PM
..Uh. No. That is exactly what it means. An [Exalted] spell is so Good that most [Exalted] spells have higher aura strengths than epic level Paladins of Heironous. [Exalted], by it's very definition, is non-evil to the maximum.

The only possible way that holy mindrape sanctify the wicked could be considered non-evil is if you strip the terms "Good" and "Evil" of all meaning and reduce them to mere "Blue Team"/"Red Team" indicators. Which is what the BoED did, which is why it can die in a fire. Re-programming someone's personality against their will is evil. Period. Even if you call it "Exalted".



so unless if you are willing to argue that God (or whatever real-world deity you believe in) is evil for tossing evil people over to de olde flaming hells,
Wow, unwarranted assumptions much?

Felyndiira
2009-08-10, 06:54 PM
Wow, unwarranted assumptions much?

{TEXT removed} Putting all of this aside, perhaps your response could include all of the other things that I pointed out (like the fact that it's not actually mind-altering in any way) instead of picking one random specific detail and hounding on that as if it was some sort of undeniable key point that makes or breaks the argument.

Lewin Eagle
2009-08-10, 07:25 PM
{Scrubbed}
Concerning sanctify, I think it makes no sense that an non mindaltering spell works on everyone without a failure chance. There should be some people who don't become good. But whatever I will stay out off that discussion.



I would take planeshift, overland flight and heal. Maybe protection from arrows instead of flight, though I don't know how much damage a bullet does. I wouldn't take any offensive spells, if I used them I would certainly make some enemies and a sniper could easily kill me, before I notice him.

Forbiddenwar
2009-08-10, 07:26 PM
Personally, it concerns me how many people want CL/S/CW and Heal and anything of that nature.

Okay. You're concerned how many people want to cure cancer, alshiemers, any disease or poison or injury? people who want to ease pain and suffering? Only reason I can see to be concered about this is if you are the one causing the suffering.

POA, etc . . .
Who really wants to live forever? Sounds like a bum rap to me. just give me a decent 60 years, and I'd be happy. (Life is only valuable when it is finite)
And your new 20 year old form will have the same mental abilities as you did when 20.

Wind Walk vs teleport:
I want to see the world while travelling. Not just pop around to varies tourist traps. Also the immunity to some damage helps too. I can walk up mount everest without suffocation worries.

PumpkinJack
2009-08-10, 07:50 PM
Unfortunately, D&D rules says that Sanctify the Wicked is one of the most ultimate forces of good (a self-sacrifice spell, no less), so unless if you are willing to argue that God (or whatever real-world deity you believe in) is evil for tossing evil people over to de olde flaming hells,

Individual perceptions of morality aside, sanctify the wicked is very different from mind rape in scope. One cannot, for example, use sanctify to build power for himself or dominate people to his side; sanctify can ONLY be used to make people convert to the D&D ideals of good. The analogy is preaching to a serial murderer and, over time, making him realize the errors of his ways; the spell isn't even mind-affecting in that according to the description (it doesn't have the mind-affecting descriptor, and is very universal in application): the soul finds HIS OWN WAY towards alignment salvation.

Mind rape, however, has the evil descriptor for a reason - you're basically taking someone's mind and reshaping it for your own benefit. Your benefit might temporarily be aligned with the greater good, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that you are, by sheer force of mental destruction, reshaping another individual to suit your own perceptions of what is good. It is one of the most easily abused spells in the entire game setting, has an explicit [EVIL] descriptor, is almost impossible to remove (break enchantment only breaks some uses of it; it take a wish or miracle to break the "I rewrite your memories altogether so you now regard me as your unquestioned lord" part of the spell), and violates another's individuality at the caster's whim.

tl;dr Even abstract morals aside, you can abuse mind rape easily (and I expect that quite a few people will, especially the ones that also have clauses for immortality). Sanctify the wicked is verily not abusable. Very different stories.

I have to agree with John Campbell on this one. According to my moral sense, it's wrong to forcibly change someone's personality regardless if you are making them a model citizen or not. You might as well say that it's okay for American republicans to force all democrats to abandon their political party and ideals (or vice versa). Brainwashing is brainwashing.

The problem we're having here is that fantasy world morality and real-world morality don't mix well. In a fantasy world, lawful good paladins can murder hordes of intelligent creatures without a second thought, reanimating a creature's skeleton is an inherently evil act, and all evil witches are ugly but good witches are beautiful. The real world isn't so simple. This is the whole reason that comics like OotS and Goblins can flip D&D morality on its head for our enjoyment.

PumpkinJack
2009-08-10, 08:00 PM
POA, etc . . .
Who really wants to live forever? Sounds like a bum rap to me. just give me a decent 60 years, and I'd be happy. (Life is only valuable when it is finite)
And your new 20 year old form will have the same mental abilities as you did when 20.

Wind Walk vs teleport:
I want to see the world while travelling. Not just pop around to varies tourist traps. Also the immunity to some damage helps too. I can walk up mount everest without suffocation worries.

I gotta agree on the immortality thing. I don't want to live forever, though I'd like to have a good long life. Shoot, I can't keep myself occupied on a long weekend, what am I going to do with centuries upon centuries of time?

You know, it's funny how much my choices here are different if I'm the only one with these powers. If lots of people have them like in the D&D world, I'll take the powers that sound the most fun. If I'm the only one or one of few, I feel a responsibility to choose the powers that will have the most impact on people in general, instead of just my own happiness. As long as there are others with the powers, I figure they can be the responsible ones. :)

That's why I couldn't chose something like flying or teleportation. If I REALLY want to go somewhere, I can just take a plane or drive or walk. Why duplicate something you can already do in real life? You only get to choose three spells for all time. No need to waste them.

John Campbell
2009-08-10, 08:18 PM
Sanctify the Wicked tosses you into a crystal for a year because you violate a set of rules that define good an adequate number of times, wherein you "see the light" of your evils and walk toward the path of the other side (as opposed to mind rape, wherein the caster rearranges your thoughts as he sees fit).
As long as sanctify the wicked doesn't make it possible for its victims to say, "Thanks for stealing a year of my life, Mr. Holier-Than-Thou, but you're still wrong," or even, "Okay, you're right about that whole good/evil thing, but I still reject your oppressive Lawfulness; I'm turning Chaotic Good," I don't believe this characterization of it is accurate. No matter what tags the book (which I've already mentioned ought to die in a fire) puts on it.


Putting all of this aside, perhaps your response could include all of the other things that I pointed out (like the fact that it's not actually mind-altering in any way) instead of picking one random specific detail and hounding on that as if it was some sort of undeniable key point that makes or breaks the argument.

{Scrubbed}

Felyndiira
2009-08-10, 08:52 PM
You assumed...

Addressing these assumptions, even insofar as they're relevant (which is not very), would be in violation of forum rules regarding discussion of real-world religion. And the bulk of your post is founded on either these assumptions, or on the letter of rules that I've already rejected as incompatible with basic morality and the core alignment rules. That leaves very little that I could usefully address.

I'll edit my post to address the violations to forum rules. My apologies for that.

As to the debate, one of the fundamental things that BoED assumes with StW is that everyone has a shard of goodness in him/her. Whether this is true in real life is in the hands of debating philosophers (morality is subjective), but even assuming that, through some umbrella of objective morality, controlling someone's mind is inherently wrong, that leaves me with the following:

1) Someone that uses Sanctify the Wicked cannot abuse the spell. Unlike mind rape, the spell is not subject to the whims of its user, since you can't even trap a soul that is not "evil" in the first place. If "evil" is defined as an adequate quantity of murder, theft, etc.,

2) Someone that uses mindrape is inherently a liability. Again, argue morality all you want, but mindrape CAN be used for self-serving ends. The whole StW idea was (as a casual observation, actually, but we'll ignore that for now) proposed to check the myriad of people that chose mindrape as a power (and the myriad of people that will chose mindrape as a power if the opportunity was given to them). You can argue Batman's morality all you want, but what he does guarantees results; same with StW.

2a) (Fine, you can technically abuse the "imprison" aspect of it, but the "evil" limit puts quite a restriction on that)

3) StW will lead to the greater good in the end. Again, you can argue the exact morality of "leading someone toward the light," but after that year, said person will, at least, have a good chance to become a good citizen of society. Someone under mindrape? Not so much.

And,

4) Your argument is to equate StW with mind rape. Thus, we MUST assume that sanctify the wicked DIRECTLY interferes with a person's mind, which, by the sheer description of text (and not just alignment descriptors), it does NOT. Instead, StW is described as "the subject reflects on past evils and slowly finds within itself a spark of goodness."

The interpretation, of course, assumes one of the following:

That there is a spark of inherit goodness in every being.
That every individual can, with words of adequate purity and conviction, be moved to tears.
That every individual, upon being trapped for an adequate time without anything to interact with, will enter a state of contemplation and automatically come to terms with his own evil.
That there is a universal good, and that converting someone to good is a good act.

The fourth is important because, assuming that there IS a universal good and converting an individual to that goodness must be a good act, then StW is a good act. If you do not assume that the ends justify the means, then you make the assumption that killing people in order to save others is universally evil; nothing wrong with that, of course, but that would just be a fundamental disagreement that we'll never resolve.

Otherwise, if there isn't a universal good, then our arguments become subjective - your evil is not the same as my evil. Thus, I might view subjugating someone to a painless, peaceful process to convert them to the greater good as a good act, and you might disagree; the argument turns into a debate of opinions.

Johel
2009-08-11, 05:30 AM
Okay. You're concerned how many people want to cure cancer, alshiemers, any disease or poison or injury? people who want to ease pain and suffering? Only reason I can see to be concered about this is if you are the one causing the suffering..

*Uncarring wanna-be god mode on*
Punny mortals = walking rotting flesh bags who'll be gone by the time you celebrate your first century. What's the point in healing one if he's still going to die in mere decades ? Better find other usefull/funny pawns.
*off*

I can understand the idea. Very noble. But I think you got my point : when you stop aging because of one spell, you takes another perspective at time, death and the likes. Why would you waste some of your power to ease a few others while, with other powers, you could eventually end up doing A LOT MORE good (even if you have to cross the grey line to do it).


POA, etc . . .
Who really wants to live forever? Sounds like a bum rap to me. just give me a decent 60 years, and I'd be happy. (Life is only valuable when it is finite)
And your new 20 year old form will have the same mental abilities as you did when 20. .
Eternal youth is awesome. Both on a spiritual and biological point of view.
You can have projects that don't require you to take into account your physical shape or simply your estimated remaining lifetime.
I think life is even more valuable when you know that, unless violent death, it shouldn't end : You got a lot more funny experiences to lose.

For mental abilities, it will be the one of an average human, not especially you. Your intelligence, wisdom and charisma might suffer a bit but as long as your memories are there, who cares ? It's not like we really need to be brainy to cast the spell-like abilities anyway. Also, it cures alsaïmer all the same, since it's old brain cell degeneration and not a disease. :smallwink:


Wind Walk vs teleport:
I want to see the world while travelling. Not just pop around to varies tourist traps. Also the immunity to some damage helps too. I can walk up mount everest without suffocation worries.
I agree to you for the traveling part. Also, the fact that other people can beneficiate from it and the near-invisibility. However, the "30 seconds before start" can be a problem if you have to take off fast. So, in the end, it comes down to who you are : paranoïd loner or social guy.

On another topic :

An issue that hadn't been adressed are the true limits of these powers.
If we change bodies, do they remain in our possession ?
Do we control them like a 20th level caster would ? Or is it just raw casting ? It can be important because, while a 20th level wizard knows what he is doing, we would basically just cast and hope. It's especially true with spells that alterate shape or mind. You don't want to fail your biology or become crazy because of the "scary things you discovered in his mind".

Talic
2009-08-11, 05:50 AM
I'm not going to weigh in on moral outlook. I will state that I find the idea of the following spells/effects existing IRL disturbing, more than most:

Dominate X - Forcing people to act against their will? Questionable at best.

Mindrape - Policing someone's thoughts? Altering memories? Sometimes memories are all a man has left.

Sanctify the Wicked - Change should come as a personal decision. This doesn't allow that. So they're not finding their way. You're forcing the way. Not being [Mind-Affecting] doesn't change that.

These ones always set off my squick-meter.

EDIT: Personal opinion on life:

When finite, every moment is cherished. Can lead to a desire to rush, impulsiveness.

When not, every life is cherished. Killing is removing something permanent and beautiful from the world. Tends towards philosophical and thought before action.

Both can cherish life. All depends on the point of view.

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-11, 06:06 AM
*Uncarring wanna-be god mode on*
Punny mortals = walking rotting flesh bags who'll be gone by the time you celebrate your first century. What's the point in healing one if he's still going to die in mere decades ? Better find other usefull/funny pawns.
*off*

I can understand the idea. Very noble. But I think you got my point : when you stop aging because of one spell, you takes another perspective at time, death and the likes. Why would you waste some of your power to ease a few others while, with other powers, you could eventually end up doing A LOT MORE good (even if you have to cross the grey line to do it).


Eternal youth is awesome. Both on a spiritual and biological point of view.
You can have projects that don't require you to take into account your physical shape or simply your estimated remaining lifetime.
I think life is even more valuable when you know that, unless violent death, it shouldn't end : You got a lot more funny experiences to lose.

For mental abilities, it will be the one of an average human, not especially you. Your intelligence, wisdom and charisma might suffer a bit but as long as your memories are there, who cares ? It's not like we really need to be brainy to cast the spell-like abilities anyway. Also, it cures alsaïmer all the same, since it's old brain cell degeneration and not a disease. :smallwink:

I am terrified by the idea of dying, I have been for ages. PAO seems like everyone's dream power (at least according to the immortality threads that pop up occasionally), you can continue living for as long as you want, but when you've had enough you have the ability to end your life, rather than just stretch on forever. As for mental faculties PAO is a physical change only (based on Polymorph), it specifically doesn't affect your mental "stats".


On another topic :

An issue that hadn't been adressed are the true limits of these powers.
1. If we change bodies, do they remain in our possession ?
2. Do we control them like a 20th level caster would ? Or is it just raw casting? It can be important because, while a 20th level wizard knows what he is doing, we would basically just cast and hope. It's especially true with spells that alterate shape or mind. You don't want to fail your biology or become crazy because of the "scary things you discovered in his mind".

1. Ummmm......Yes, you do.
2. You have full knowledge of how to utilize these powers correctly. You know that Fireball has a 20ft radius, so you'd beter not use it in close range or you'll be BBQ etc etc. You basically have the book entry for your spells mburned into your mind. As for shapeshifting, as long as you own the MM, you'll be fine.

I have spoken!

My Word Is Law!!

KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!!

...Sorry, got carried away I think :smallredface:

Talic
2009-08-11, 06:11 AM
I am terrified by the idea of dying, I have been for ages. PAO seems like everyone's dream power (at least according to the immortality threads that pop up occasionally), you can continue living for as long as you want, but when you've had enough you have the ability to end your life, rather than just stretch on forever. As for mental faculties PAO is a physical change only (based on Polymorph), it specifically doesn't affect your mental "stats".


Actually, PAO does reference mental stats, making it an 'exception' to the "As Polymorph, except as noted."

Krimm_Blackleaf
2009-08-11, 06:18 AM
Greater Invisibility
Greater Teleport
Fox's Cunning