This really does throw a huge wrench in the works...

[The Succubus]

The more I think about it, the more unsure I am about where the plot will go with this.

* Xykon is clearly unaware of what's going on in the rift - will it change his plans when he discovers it?
* Redcloak's plan to use the Snarl as a weapon is clearly shot to hell now as well.
* If all the gates lead to this parallel world, is it really so critical now if they fall into Xykon's hands?
* How do we know it's a *real* world in there? Perhaps it could just be an elaborate illusion.

[Jagos]

Xykon didn't see the inside of the rift. He's too busy looking for his phylactery.

Redcloak, same issue, but it seems he may be misinformed.

Yes it is, they can fight for it. What this opens up is a new can of worms. Namely:

What happened to the people attacked by the Snarl?
Why can't they be raised?
Were they in a similar spell to what happened to Lirian and Dorukon, which spans an entire world?

The fact that Blackwing wasn't attacked, tells us the world is real. Or perhaps the Snarl is not what it seems in first view.

[pflare]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0545.html
In this comic redcloak mentions that the remaining gates probably prevent the Snarl from knowing about the existing rifts, so that's why blackwing wasn't attacked. Also don't think this changes anyhting in Team Evil's plans. They just want to control the Snarl and its still there.
If anything it will just encourage the oots because noe they have another planet to save.

[HandofShadows]

Well it would be odd that Snarl would not notice the Azure City rift. It's rather large and the Gate that kept it closed is not longer there and any spells that went along with it should be gone as well. Also as we can see, Snarl is no longer inside its prison in any for we can recognize.

[dragontape]

Here's my theory...

Supposedly the Snarl was a being of deific power...able to kill gods in one fell swoop. Maybe it got bored over the eons it was stuck in there so it created a world in its prison to entertain it. :P

Sorta like how MitD was having a little tea party with O-Chul except on a much grander scale...could also explain why it doesn't notice that 2 gates are open.

[Lerky]

What happened to the people attacked by the Snarl?
Why can't they be raised?
Were they in a similar spell to what happened to Lirian and Dorukon, which spans an entire world?

maybe they can't be raised because they're not dead. Maybe they're living on this alternate world or something.


Well it would be odd that Snarl would not notice the Azure City rift. It's rather large and the Gate that kept it closed is not longer there and any spells that went along with it should be gone as well. Also as we can see, Snarl is no longer inside its prison in any for we can recognize.
unless he's in hiding or something, I mean from the looks of it, that alternate world seemed pretty big. The snarl could be simply behind the new planet, or just not within eye shot of the rift


Here's my theory...

Supposedly the Snarl was a being of deific power...able to kill gods in one fell swoop. Maybe it got bored over the eons it was stuck in there so it created a world in its prison to entertain it. :P

Sorta like how MitD was having a little tea party with O-Chul except on a much grander scale...could also explain why it doesn't notice that 2 gates are open.
the only problem is (according to Redcloak at least) the Snarl is a being of pure chaos, and the word order doesn't even enter it's mind. How could such a crazed entity create a logical world?

[Sanguine]

the only problem is (according to Redcloak at least) the Snarl is a being of pure chaos, and the word order doesn't even enter it's mind. How could such a crazed entity create a logical world?

A few problems with this: 1)Who said the world was logical, for all we know it could be less logical then Limbo, 2) That was Hearsay(as is all information we have on The Snarl), 3) Beings of immeasurable power can change.

[factotum]

Xykon is completely unaware of the *true* plan for the rifts anyway, so him finding out something unexpected about them isn't likely to make much difference.

[Far]

Here's my theory...

Supposedly the Snarl was a being of deific power...able to kill gods in one fell swoop. Maybe it got bored over the eons it was stuck in there so it created a world in its prison to entertain it. :P

Sorta like how MitD was having a little tea party with O-Chul except on a much grander scale...could also explain why it doesn't notice that 2 gates are open.

MitD is the Snarl. You heard it here first.

[Hurkyl]

MitD is the Snarl. You heard it here first.
Actually, no, I'm pretty sure I've heard that before. :smalltongue:

[Kish]

Quite. Still wondering about that blackguard order of Far's, though.

[Turkish Delight]

It opens up two rather huge problems for understanding the current situation, however.

1) Did the Snarl reach out and run Soon's wife through or didn't it? Was it attacking other people or wasn't it? Unreliable narrator or no, the image described by Shojo was obviously of impalement followed by death, not disappearing into the void. And without that motivation, one has to explain why Soon even started his quest.

2) What exactly did the Order of the Scribble see when they looked into the rift? Certainly over all those years of fighting to seal them at least one of them would have had the chance to notice a friggin' planet on the other side.

[Ancalagon]

MitD is the Snarl. You heard it here first.

I'm pretty sure it is not. Giant said MitD is not something he made up himself but something someone else made up (in some commentary of War and XP's, I think). As he made up the Snarl, it clearly follows that the MitD is not the Snarl.

[quick_comment]

Im guessing that the world in the snarl isnt world 1.0. Its World 2.0, and the world that the OOtS is in World 1.0.

[Ubergeek]

Im guessing that the world in the snarl isnt world 1.0. Its World 2.0, and the world that the OOtS is in World 1.0.

This is supported by the fact that the picture of the planet during V's casting of familicide looks remarkably like the picture of world 1.0 featured in the order of the scribble.

[Teddy]

1) Did the Snarl reach out and run Soon's wife through or didn't it? Was it attacking other people or wasn't it? Unreliable narrator or no, the image described by Shojo was obviously of impalement followed by death, not disappearing into the void. And without that motivation, one has to explain why Soon even started his quest.

Perhaps it reached out and drew their souls into his own world, because he couldn't create living beings on his own (or how the world in there works anyway). The body on the material way would die, but the soul would be living so it wouldn't be possible to resurrect it.

[BiggusGeekus]

I'm pretty sure it is not. Giant said MitD is not something he made up himself but something someone else made up (in some commentary of War and XP's, I think). As he made up the Snarl, it clearly follows that the MitD is not the Snarl.

It doesn't follow at all. The Giant could have taken the idea and run with it, adding things of his own. This happens all the flipping time in creative endevors. Heck, it happens all the time in any large project.

[Berserk Monk]

The more I think about it, the more unsure I am about where the plot will go with this.

Your lucky. The more I think, the more confused I get. And when I say think, I mean think about anything in particular. My advice, don't think about the things that confuse you. Just block htem out an eeverything be okauy auhsethdfjk rf. 3hdsf

[Aldrakan]

It doesn't follow at all. The Giant could have taken the idea and run with it, adding things of his own. This happens all the flipping time in creative endevors. Heck, it happens all the time in any large project.

For that matter, he might have been lying. I mean to the best of our knowledge he hasn't done so any other time, but sometimes authors flat-out lie, if they think it's necessary for the story.

Or he meant that he didn't make up the MitD to be the MitD, but rather that it fits into OotS world as a whole.

[Nimrod's Son]

For that matter, he might have been lying. I mean to the best of our knowledge he hasn't done so any other time, but sometimes authors flat-out lie, if they think it's necessary for the story.
Hmm... good thinking. Maybe the MitD is a therblewurkersaurus after all!

[unumplurum]

Forgive my ignorance, but has Shojo's story about the nature of the Snarl ever been confirmed by any different source in the comic? What if the Order of the Scribble created the story of a god-killing being of pure chaos, in order to discourage anyone from opening the gates? If there is another universe on the other side of the gates, and not just the Snarl, then maybe the Order (or someone else) had other, more complicated reasons for preventing any traffic between the worlds.

[Sanguine]

Forgive my ignorance, but has Shojo's story about the nature of the Snarl ever been confirmed by any different source in the comic? What if the Order of the Scribble created the story of a god-killing being of pure chaos, in order to discourage anyone from opening the gates? If there is another universe on the other side of the gates, and not just the Snarl, then maybe the Order (or someone else) had other, more complicated reasons for preventing any traffic between the worlds.

Well The Dark One's story seems to coincide at least on the god-killing being of pure chaos front.

[Watcher]

The MitD CANNOT be the Snarl itself for the reason that Xykon and Redcloak wouldn't waste their time opening the gates if they knew they already had it. The Snarl had never been heard of by the people who first found it, but they recognized it and were surprised it could talk. Please, don't argue MitD = Snarl. Even if Rich lied (which he wouldn't), there's no way this could be it.

[Zevox]

* Xykon is clearly unaware of what's going on in the rift - will it change his plans when he discovers it?
Xykon's "plans" are to get Redcloak's PlanTM to work. He can't alter that and still be relevant to our story, really. If The PlanTM doesn't work, his motivations for this story are completely gone.

Also, you assume he will discover this little twist. I wouldn't. Clearly he hasn't looked closely into the rift yet, and that likely means he doesn't think there's any reason to. And why would he? As far as he knows, that'd just risk drawing the attention of a god-killing abomination.


* Redcloak's plan to use the Snarl as a weapon is clearly shot to hell now as well.
Er, no, not necessarily. All this revealed is that there is a world within the rift, where we were told the Snarl's prison is. How does that impact the Snarl, or The PlanTM? We don't know.


* If all the gates lead to this parallel world, is it really so critical now if they fall into Xykon's hands?
Ah, here's your problem. You're assuming that this is all the gates/rifts are now. Don't. This doesn't match with what we were told before, so it begs the question of just what is true about the Snarl/Rifts/Gates, but it does not automatically mean that the Gates/Rifts do nothing more than lead to that world.

Quite the contrary, I'd be surprised if they did, since then we must wonder what prompted the Order of the Scribble's journey. Shojo said it was the Snarl attacking Soon's wife - what could have prompted it if the Snarl did not do that? Plus I doubt the Order of the Scribble would have gone to these lengths to seal rifts that merely led to a parallel world. Plus the story of the Snarl is consistent between both Shojo's telling and Redcloak's in Start of Darkness, which means it comes from the gods, and was not invented by the Order of the Scribble, as another poster suggested.


* How do we know it's a *real* world in there? Perhaps it could just be an elaborate illusion.
Because that would be an incredibly lame plot twist which would effectively make this dramatic reveal completely pointless.

Zevox

[Code Black]

I think the main hitch now is whether or not the Snarl is the god killing abomination that legend says it it. Perhaps, as legendary villains often are, it's evil has been greatly exaggerated.

My first thought when I saw what was really inside the rift was that the Snarl was not destroying everything, but... recreating it. Preserving it. Making it's own world. Reaching out to bring things in, and wrecking havok instead, perhaps by accident, perhaps in self defense. We still have no idea, but it still seems that we need to rethink exactly what the Snarl might be.

[thalandus]

We are assuming that the Snarl is a constant. Who knows what the Snarl has been doing all that time in the rift, it may be a constantly learning and evolving entity that can change its perspective on things, and/or its powers. It probably has its own story to tell.

[vampire2948]

We are also assuming that ALL the portals lead to Snarl.

There were five open portals, the Order of the Scribble sealed them all. BUT

What if only four or less of them actually lead to the Snarl? We have not seen evidence that the Snarl has poked a claw out of the Azure gate. So this one might just be a random magical portal to another solar system. Whereas the other ones are true portals.

I doubt the Order of the Scribble would have cared what was behind it, they had a cool spell, and liked sealin' rifts. And all of them could have been potential snarl-portals. Like blackwing, they might just not have understood.

[HandofShadows]

The MitD CANNOT be the Snarl itself for the reason that Xykon and Redcloak wouldn't waste their time opening the gates if they knew they already had it.

But would Xykon or Redcloak actually know what Snarl looks like? Or as a being of Chaos Snarl might be able to change it's shape.

[Sanguine]

But would Xykon or Redcloak actually know what Snarl looks like? Or as a being of Chaos Snarl might be able to change it's shape.

In SoD Redcloak said he knew what the :mitd: is.

[Stanfield22]

If epic magic could be used to seal the rifts, who's to say the occupants of the Old World couldn't use epic magic to simply "sew" the world back together? Nobody's seen it since the old days. It's my belief that the "new" planet inside the rift is simply the original planet, remade. I don't think the Snarl did it, but I do believe the Snarl was more a God-hater than a creature with malaise towards humanity.

[Watcher]

Nobody actually ever said he consumed the world, he unmade it. Assuming Shojo's story is correct, the Snarl simply destroyed the world. When the gods remade the world, they used the threads of reality that had been released by the destruction of World 1.0

[Ceryan]

If epic magic could be used to seal the rifts, who's to say the occupants of the Old World couldn't use epic magic to simply "sew" the world back together? Nobody's seen it since the old days. It's my belief that the "new" planet inside the rift is simply the original planet, remade. I don't think the Snarl did it, but I do believe the Snarl was more a God-hater than a creature with malaise towards humanity.

The Snarl is allegedly a being of pure Chaos; it hates and works to undo any sort of Order in the universe. Humanity, as well as ANY form of creation would be a target of the Snarl.

[Prowl]

My understanding is that the Snarl was the original world, what became of it while the gods were arguing over the details.

[Kish]

No, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html) there was an actual world, which the Snarl destroyed.

[dps]

The more I think about it, the more unsure I am about where the plot will go with this.

* Xykon is clearly unaware of what's going on in the rift - will it change his plans when he discovers it?

At the most, he'd look on it as another world he'd get to rule if what he thinks is The Plan works. Otherwise, it's irrelevant to him.


* Redcloak's plan to use the Snarl as a weapon is clearly shot to hell now as well.

Why? While the existance of the "planet within a planet" could make it impossible to complete The Plan, I don't see any inherent reason why that would be the case. There's nothing that would necessarily mean that the Snarl can't be used in the manner that Redcloak and The Dark One intend.


* If all the gates lead to this parallel world, is it really so critical now if they fall into Xykon's hands?

See above.


* How do we know it's a *real* world in there? Perhaps it could just be an elaborate illusion.

We don't. My thought was that it is perhaps a reflection--amirror image--of the OotS world.

[factotum]

We don't. My thought was that it is perhaps a reflection--amirror image--of the OotS world.


It doesn't look like one. Continents are different, and Stickworld doesn't have massive ice caps like that either.