Blackwing shouldn't have recognized a planet

[kusje]

How would technologically backward beings (much less a bird) recognize a planet from space?

[Ent]

Magic. Divination magic.

[Pentegarn]

Wait. You except that the raven's mind is sophisticated enough for speech, but it's too much that he can recognize a planet? :P

[pflare]

Magic. Divination magic.

Yah I'm going to say so. Plus even backwards technology includes a telescope. And Ravens are smart birds plus he's a familiar so he's even smarter.

[Querzis]

People in D&D are «technologically backward» because they dont need technology. At all. For absolutely nothing. They can do everything with magic and yes, that include space exploration. Hell, they even should be able to do it better then us.

[Zanaril]

Also, blackwing doesn't say it's a planet, it's V who says that. BW could have just said "A blue and green ball surrounded by black with lots of little lights around it."

Or maybe the idea of a solar system/planets is just common knowledge. :smallwink:

[waterpenguin43]

Yes, remember this:
Bw: It's beautiful, but.. but.. I don't understand.

[Haggis]

Panels 1-3

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0344.html

[Winthur]

Blackwing probably spent a lot of his time in some study. It means he could possibly seen a few globes in his lifetime, or perhaps took a peek into his master's books, or maybe - since there's a telepathic link between them - share his memories [and therefore seeing the image of a planet]. Maybe he was promptly educated. Also, he could have deduced so - he had to have seen a moon once. Or, he maybe just used some sort of TeeVo thing that allowed his master to view it through his eyes. :smalltongue: Or maybe in the plane he's summoned from (I dunno though where do D&D wizards get their familiars from) there's some kind of a view on galaxy.

[Rad]

Also, blackwing doesn't say it's a planet, it's V who says that. BW could have just said "A blue and green ball surrounded by black with lots of little lights around it."

Or maybe the idea of a solar system/planets is just common knowledge. :smallwink:

This. Which fits terrifically with "I don't even know where to begin". I guess that if I had been Blackwing my answer would have been "A planet".
The fact that he doesn't know how to describe it is an argument supporting the fact that he hasn't, in fact, recognized a planet since it's the first time he saw one.
Thanks to his knowledge V induced what BW saw from his description (that we readers do not hear).

ALTERNATIVE:

Of course BW can recognize a planet. As a familiar he has the same skill ranks as V has, including the several knowledges that can tell you what a planet is and looks like.

Honestly, I prefer the first one but rules fans might like the second too. :smallsmile:

[derfenrirwolv]

1st off, blackwing has an 11 or 12 intelligence, and all the knowledge arcana and spellcraft ranks that V has. He's smarter than 2 of the party members at least, probably 3.

Second, people have known the earth was a big round ball since at least the greeks.

Third, people who can teleport around the globe at a moments notice tend to notice that the suns in a different spot when they pop a few thousand miles away.

Fourth, clerics are in communion with gods that designed the planet. I'm pretty sure one of them asked for basic blueprints.

[Sanguine]

I dunno though where do D&D wizards get their familiars from

They take normal animals and imbue them with Sentience and various other abilities.

[Zevox]

1st off, blackwing has an 11 or 12 intelligence, and all the knowledge arcana and spellcraft ranks that V has. He's smarter than 2 of the party members at least, probably 3.
This. V's knowledge is Blackwing's knowledge, and by being a familiar Blackwing is far smarter than just some random bird. By the level V is at, he's smarter than the average Human, Elf, or Dwarf, for that matter. Significantly increased intelligence is one of the main benefits familiars receive.

Zevox

[Watcher]

Vaarsuvius: A planet? Within a planet? I do not understand
Blackwing: That's pretty much what I said, yeah.

[Murdim]

You don't even need divination magic to explain this. Sure, for us who've been living since our birth in a world where pictures of Earth from space are available, it can be highly counterintuitive to even consider the fact that you don't actually need that to have a precise idea of how our planet looks like. Consequently, it is very easy to forget that accurate conceptions of what would the Earth look like from a distant point of view already existed millenia ago, and have been consensual among educated persons for centuries.

Here's what Blackwing actually needs to know in order to easily recognise a world similar to his own from the point of view he got through the rift :
_ That his planet is spheric, and how a sphere looks like.
_ That liquid water is blue, ice is white, and ground is green to brown.
_ That stars are so far they would still appear in the background from his position.
_ That clouds are white, enormous, and floating in the sky at reatively low distance from the ground compared to stellar objects.
_ How are continents and oceans shaped, and how cold, ice-covered regions are arranged, e.g thanks to a world map.

I somehow doubt that the OotS world is "technologically backward" enough for Blackwing to lack the knowledge of any one of these scientific facts, especially since every one but the last have been known since antique Greece in our world, that regular water-borne intercontinental travel tends to imply the existence and easy availability of reliable world maps, and that as a familiar, Blackwing himself is an intelligent being who has total and permanent access to the knowledges of a very powerful, highly educated, superhumanly intelligent, century-old wizard.

[factotum]

It's a common myth that it's only recently been discovered that the Earth is spherical, but this is not the case; in fact, Eratosthenes of Cyrene calculated its circumference with remarkable accuracy sometime around 200BC. Given that, it is certainly not unreasonable to assume that the residents of the Stickverse know they live on a spherical planet and have a rough idea what it would look like from far above, even before you take into account scrying magic and other stuff a normal mediaeval society wouldn't possess.

[Hurkyl]

According to Wiki, globes have been around since at least as far back as 150 BC.

[Thanatosia]

Vaarsuvius: A planet? Within a planet? I do not understand
Blackwing: That's pretty much what I said, yeah.
From the premise that Blackwing did not recognize it as a planet theory, the "Thats pretty much what I said" is referring to the "I do not understand" not the "A planet? Within a planet?"

[Porthos]

Spelljammer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spelljammer).

That is all. :smalltongue:

Plus, as factoum mentioned, the whole "Modern Myth about medieval people believing in a Flat Earth" is WRONGWRONGWRONGWRONG.

Did I mention that it was WRONG? I did? Just checking. :smalltongue:

You see, many many many people (if not the vast majority of learned people) in the Middle Ages knew that the Earth was spherical. Sailors knew it for one, simply by watching ships disappear over the horizon. The reason why people laughed at Columbus was not about the whole "Earth is Round" business. They laughed at him because he insisted (very wrongly as it turns out) that the Earth was much smaller than was presumed by almost everyone else. He thought he could travel west and easily hit Asia because it wasn't that far away.

Really, Columbus was damn lucky that there was a pair of huge land masses to the west that were undiscovered. Cause otherwise he (and all of his crew) would have long died of starvation before they ever reached Asia.

Mind you, the "New World" would have been discovered pretty darn soon even if Columbus hadn't been so stupid in regards to the size of the Earth. There were plenty of ships going up and down the coast of Africa. Sooner or later, some of them would have either gone off course (or gone exploring) and hit what is now called Brazil. And even if that didn't happen, sooner or later, ships exploring near Iceland and Greenland would have hit what we now call Canada. The simple fact is that ships of the time were getting more and more ocean worthy, allowing them to go out further and further. All they needed was an economic (or other) reason to do so.

And all of this presumes, of course, that we don't have a Alternative History where China decided not to be so darn insular and instead continued to explore it's surroundings. Even if European nations imploded completely, China would have sooner or later hit the West Coasts of North or South America.

I only bring all of this up because people knew that the earth was spherical and, at least by the time of the Renaissance, technologically speaking they could have gone out exploring. They just needed a reason to do so.

==================

And even if people don't buy these explanations, wizards (and clerics and dragons and gryphons, and...) fly way high up in the air. Sooner or later they are going to twig to the fact that the planet is round.

The rest is just mapping and exploring. :smalltongue:

[ottack]

I think he should if you look at the crayon drawings all the way back the worlds are planets. The fact that the worlds are show that way makes it rather clear they are what we call planets.
Also as people have said blackwing is smart enough to know what a planet looks like.

[Porthos]

BTW:

For those curious:

Myth of the Flat Earth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth) (for an overview of who to blame for the whole "people in the 'Dark Ages' believed in a Flat Earth" myth)

and

Flat Earth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth) (for an overview of the idea of a Flat Earth in general)

Both Wikipedia, but they seem to be fairly accurate. :smallwink:

[thepsyker]

And even if that didn't happen, sooner or later, ships exploring near Iceland and Greenland would have hit what we now call Canada.Norse explores had actually done just this around 1000 CE, if memory serves

[Porthos]

Norse explores had actually done just this around 1000 CE, if memory serves

Yes, that is rather my point. :smallwink:

With out going into RL too much, the reason the Norse explorers didn't "take root" there was a combination of technological (they couldn't bring enough goods and services over to easily establish a viable colony), economical (why go through all the expense to go there when you had plenty of easy targets much closer), and political (can't touch this one here :smalltongue:) reasons.

Mind you, it could conceivably had happened (check out AlternateHistory.Com (http://www.alternatehistory.com) for a few examples [after searching, natch]), but a lot of things would have to had occurred in just the right order.

Anyway, even setting aside all of that, ships would have sooner or later arrived in the New World. Certainly during the 16th century, if not within a couple of decades of 1500.

Columbus was just the (very) lucky sod who did it. :smallwink:

[thepsyker]

Yes, that is rather my point. :smallwink:

With out going into RL too much, the reason the Norse explorers didn't "take root" there was a combination of technological (they couldn't bring enough goods and services over to easily establish a viable colony), economical (why go through all the expense to go there when you had plenty of easy targets much closer), and political (can't touch this one here :smalltongue:) reasons.

Mind you, it could conceivably had happened (check out AlternateHistory.Com (http://www.alternatehistory.com) for a few examples [after searching, natch]), but a lot of things would have to had occurred in just the right order.

Anyway, even setting aside all of that, ships would have sooner or later arrived in the New World. Certainly during the 16th century, if not within a couple of decades of 1500.

Columbus was just the (very) lucky sod who did it. :smallwink:Ah:smallredface:, the way it was worded in your post it felt, to me, sort of like you were speaking hypothetically. So I thought I would just note that that had, in fact, happened. However, you seem to have it all covered so carry on.:smallsmile:

[Porthos]

Ah:smallredface:, the way it was worded in your post it felt, to me, sort of like you were speaking hypothetically. So I thought I would just note that that had, in fact, happened. However, you seem to have it all covered so carry on.:smallsmile:

No no, it was a good point to bring up. :smallsmile:

Actually if one looks closely enough throughout history, there were a lot of "near misses" in regards to wide spread contact with North/South America and Europe/Africa/Asia. The Norse where certianly one, as you mention. If they had a more viable trade route, and (perhaps) a bit eaiser time with the people who were already there, then history could have been radically altered. And there are some small pieces of evidence that suggest that the Chinese might have hit the West Coast at some point (though this is highly disputed).

Speaking of "accidents of history", when one considers the fact that fishing was getting closer and closer to the Great Banks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Banks), contact with North America is inevitable (especially if people start wondering "Say... just where are the Basque getting all of their fish from, anyway??" :smallwink:). And when one considers all of the ships going up and down Africa, one of them sooner or later would have hit Brazil.

Like Pedro Cabral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Cabral). :smallwink:

And, in fact, there were probably dozens of, if not more, at least a few contacts between the "Old World" and the "New World" over the millenia. It's just that none of them really ever took hold on a huge scale. Either due to them being too isolated (random fisherman/sailor is blown off course) or being lost to the mists of time (the Norse contacts with North America), or just not thought of very worthy of looking into by the powers that be at the time.

For Instance (slightly satirical :smalltongue:):
"Great... You found an island*/some land in the middle of nowhere, thousands of miles away from here. With no viable trade options and nothing to get. It would cost us (the equivalent) of millions of dollars to get there, and there's no reason to go there. Yeah. We'll get right on it on this whole "exploring this new place of yours" project.

Right after the prince finishes his ladder to the moon project. :smalltongue:"

* Don't underestimate how hard it might be to tell the difference between a large island and an actual continent when exploring by boat. Especially boats that really shouldn't be out in the ocean in the first place. :smallwink:

EDIT:: A Wikipedia look at "Pre-Columbian" contacts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact

Naturally, this one is a tad controversial. So take it with a grain of salt. It's also worth remembering that "contact confirmed by historians" doesn't preclude the notion of an "accidental one time contact lost to the mists of time".:smallsmile:

[Cestrian]

Plus this is OOTS.

Where the characters routinely mention stuff like American Idol and Nodwick. In terms of anachronistic knowledge this is small scale stuff.

[Jaltum]

It's just that none of them really ever took hold on a huge scale.

Well... at least one (maybe more) of them did. It's not like the continent was deserted when Europeans got there.

[Porthos]

Well... at least one (maybe more) of them did. It's not like the continent was deserted when Europeans got there.

Point. :smalltongue:

[Berserk Monk]

How would technologically backward beings (much less a bird) recognize a planet from space?

There are phones in OotS (case and point: Tiamat tearing the fiends a new one). Also, how does a bird speak in a language understandable to elves (and thus humans)? It's a comic. You gotta let somethings go.

[Zeful]

How would technologically backward beings (much less a bird) recognize a planet from space?

The same way we did as a technologically backwards group of beings, as telescopes were invented long before spaceships.

[Watcher]

Also, how does a bird speak in a language understandable to elves (and thus humans)?

Sorry to nitpick. He speaks Common because he's a familiar. He can communicate to Vaarsuvius with "Caw caw CAW caw..." because of some bond from him being a familiar.

[Nimrod's Son]

How would technologically backward beings (much less a bird) recognize a planet from space?
Ravens actually have breathtakingly advanced technology. They just lack the thumbs to operate it properly.

[Sanguine]

Sorry to nitpick. He speaks Common because he's a familiar. He can communicate to Vaarsuvius with "Caw caw CAW caw..." because of some bond from him being a familiar.

Sorry to nitpick your nitpick but it is only Ravens and it isn't limited to Common it is one language of the masters choosing, Common just happens to be the most useful.

[holywhippet]

I believe it was a Feist book in which the characters mentioned that someone worked out the world was round when they were strong enough in magic to send a magical eye up high enough to see what things really looked like. Same rules would apply here - you could try some kind of scrying to view things from up high or even just fly/teleport up high. Problems like lack of air and the cold could be solved magically also.

[Porthos]

I believe it was a Feist book in which the characters mentioned that someone worked out the world was round when they were strong enough in magic to send a magical eye up high enough to see what things really looked like. Same rules would apply here - you could try some kind of scrying to view things from up high or even just fly/teleport up high. Problems like lack of air and the cold could be solved magically also.

Don't forget they could always just Plane Shift or walk through some Portal and ask somebody that has a really good view. :smallwink:

[Rotipher]

There are two rather obvious clues that celestial bodies are round, which are easily discerned by natives of Earth and Stickverse, with no technological aid whatsoever. They're called "the Sun" and "the Moon".

[factotum]

There are two rather obvious clues that celestial bodies are round, which are easily discerned by natives of Earth and Stickverse, with no technological aid whatsoever. They're called "the Sun" and "the Moon".

You don't really get the impression the Moon is spherical without telescopes...which we know exist in Stickverse, because Redcloak used one, which kind of reinforces your point! The Sun is just a bright blob in the sky, though, no-one would ever know it was spherical without some of the modern photos we take of it.

However, we don't actually know the Stickverse has a moon, do we? Can't remember if we've ever seen it in any strip...

[Timberboar]

However, we don't actually know the Stickverse has a moon, do we? Can't remember if we've ever seen it in any strip...

The first one to come to mind:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0230.html

[Porthos]

The Sun is just a bright blob in the sky, though, no-one would ever know it was spherical without some of the modern photos we take of it.

Errr... No. :smallsmile:

While absolute 100% iron clad proof (i.e actual pictures) might have eluded them, "logical" proofs of the sphericity of the sun (mostly thanks to lunar and solar eclipses) are fairly old and scattered throughtout various civilizations.

[Berserk Monk]

The first one to come to mind:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0230.html

That's Nite Sun, a distant relative of Nite Owl.

[Porthos]

That's Nite Sun, a distant relative of Nite Owl.

On the other hand, the title of this strip ain't "Nite Sun"light Rendezvous (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0582.html). :smalltongue:

[Berserk Monk]

On the other hand, the title of this strip ain't "Nite Sun"light Rendezvous (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0582.html). :smalltongue:

Well maybe it should be.

[Porthos]

Well maybe it should be.

I'm sure Rich will take your advice under the due consideration it deserves. :smalltongue:

[Porthos]

BTW: Is "Nite Sun" on a diet or something in this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0146.html)? :smallamused:

Or is he doing something that's better left unasked? :smalleek: :smalltongue:

[DXMage]

You might consider just searching for thoughts on the matter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth I would hazard a guess that it was argued more than a few thousand years before that. As for viewing the sun? Sun spots had been studied for centuries now. Sunspots were discovered in 1610 by Galileo. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if it is discovered at some point that ancient Chinese astronomers were actually first with that discovery.

As for the Greenland route actually the Vikings had settlements in the "New World" long before Columbus. So if any country is going to lay claim to the discovery it should be who Denmark, Norway or Sweden? So far past that the names have been long forgotten. But if you have to give a name to anyone then Icelandic Norseman Leif Eiríksson would fit the bill or maybe Bjarni Herjólfsson. http://www.sheppardsoftware.com/canadaweb/factfile/Unique-facts-Canada2.htm

History and Google search is a good combo =)

[David Argall]

People in D&D are «technologically backward» because they dont need technology. At all. For absolutely nothing. They can do everything with magic and yes, that include space exploration. Hell, they even should be able to do it better then us.

Magic in D&D is extremely expensive. A simple Cure Lite can cost most of a year's income. Most magic is simply out of the question for the average person. There are situations where the power of magic would be quite useful, but the sheer expense means that technology would not only survive, but would rapidly displace magic over nearly all the economy.

Now as to discovering the shape of the earth, this can be done by just standing on a dock and watching a ship sail in or out. When the ship is far away, its hull can't be seen, only its sails, and if the ship is even further away, only the top of the sails are visible. If the world were flat, you should be able to see the entire ship. Tiny maybe, but still the entire ship. But since the world is a huge curve, the ship "hides" all or part of itself behind the "hill" of the curve, and you can't see it.
While it is not clear if somebody ever was smart enough to discover the earth was a ball from this, they did realize this was a confirmation of the round earth a very long time ago. A likely minimum date would 500 BC.

[Thanatosia]

Magic in D&D is extremely expensive. A simple Cure Lite can cost most of a year's income. Most magic is simply out of the question for the average person. There are situations where the power of magic would be quite useful, but the sheer expense means that technology would not only survive, but would rapidly displace magic over nearly all the economy.
Technology is also absurdly expensive in its early stages. I'm sure a Steam Engine will cost a lot more to build prior to mass production economics kicking in then simply enchanting something up. The theory is that magic alternatives keeps technology from getting over this initial price hump before it can move into territory where it could become more cost-effective.

Also, outside of expensive reagents, Magic is expensive because of skilled labor supply & Demand. Its not like casting the cure light wounds is costing the cleric who casts it anything. In this regard a clerics services have little reason to be much more expensive then a doctors, but the cleric is more effective.

Quite frankly, there is more then a little amount of handwaving that goes on in D&D economics. I doubt WotC or TSR before them realy put that much serious thought into how much magical services would really cost if plunked down into a realistic economic situation.

[Kulture]

To put in D&D mechanics, it's actually quite simple.

Blackwing's a raven, and Ravens afford a +2 appraisal bonus :smallwink:

[Nimrod's Son]

BTW: Is "Nite Sun" on a diet or something in this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0146.html)?
And again here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0316.html). Clearly on those occasions the Nite Sun was being partially eclipsed by the Day Moon.

[One_Wolf]

Although arguably the D&D universe is "technologically backward" it is a realm which contains several different planes of existence to and from which many beings frequently travel.

And we are questioning how they would recognize a planet?

Heck, Roy just came back from one where he was observing the planet below.

[Cerrakoth]

Sorry to nitpick your nitpick but it is only Ravens and it isn't limited to Common it is one language of the masters choosing, Common just happens to be the most useful.

To agree with you, in Norse Mythology Ravens could speak the native language. They were very intelligent and lived until they wanted to die. Messengers of the Gods I think. For more recent use ( I use recent lightly ) of this in fantasy, the Ravens in The Hobbit follow a similar trend. Raven's are in all manor of fantasy books and dotted all around history in mythology, I believe the Celts had a similar story for them...

Also the Norse never settled in the America's because there was no-one to trade with (The Natives didn't trust them I believe). It's a myth they went round killing people in Britain, they only landed so they could trade, we(Britain) attacked them, they kill us... yeyyyyyyyy

[Woodsman]

To agree with you, in Norse Mythology Ravens could speak the native language. They were very intelligent and lived until they wanted to die. Messengers of the Gods I think.

Well Hell, Odin had two ravens, called Hunin and Munin. I can't remember which is which, but they translate into "thought" and "memory."

[armourer eric]

What is this "planet in the snarl"? All I saw in that image was the opening credits to a Jetson's episode :)

[archon_huskie]

Also, blackwing doesn't say it's a planet, it's V who says that. BW could have just said "A blue and green ball surrounded by black with lots of little lights around it."

Or maybe the idea of a solar system/planets is just common knowledge. :smallwink:

Well that's a problem I have with the frame. If your eyes are looking at an object as bright as a planet, then you CAN'T see the stars around the planet. Take a look at Nasa's pictures of the Earth or the Moon. You don't see any stars in those pictures.

Thus we know that Blackwing was seeing a false image!

[Optimystik]

Well that's a problem I have with the frame. If your eyes are looking at an object as bright as a planet, then you CAN'T see the stars around the planet. Take a look at Nasa's pictures of the Earth or the Moon. You don't see any stars in those pictures.

Thus we know that Blackwing was seeing a false image!

NASA disagrees.
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/0/885/modis_wonderglobe.jpg

[factotum]

That's very obviously not a photo, Optimistyk. If you look at *actual* photos taken of the Earth from orbit or the Moon, there are no stars visible--it's one of the points that "we didn't go to the Moon" conspiracy theorists make. What they're missing is that when a camera (or the human eye, for that matter) is looking at something as bright as a planet, it can't also see the relatively faint stars in the background. (They're also missing that NASA are probably intelligent enough to have added a few stars into the photos if they genuinely HAD faked them, but this is going way off topic...).

[Optimystik]

It's been digitally enhanced, but is based on a photo from Apollo 17. Still, the stars are a bit too bright to be anything but artistry, so I see your point.

But back to Blackwing: there's no reason World 1.0 shouldn't have stars around it. He's not looking into real space after all. Who can say what illuminative properties the Snarlstuff has?

[hnokki]

Well Hell, Odin had two ravens, called Hunin and Munin.

Huginn and Muninn, actually.

[David Argall]

Technology is also absurdly expensive in its early stages.
This depends on the technology. A great deal of it is extremely cheap. The cotton gin is a good example here, being easily made by just about any farmer once the basic idea was discovered.


The theory is that magic alternatives keeps technology from getting over this initial price hump before it can move into territory where it could become more cost-effective.
The problem is that magic is shown as so expensive. Even for high cost technology, replacing magic is cheaper.


there is more then a little amount of handwaving that goes on in D&D economics. I doubt WotC or TSR before them realy put that much serious thought into how much magical services would really cost if plunked down into a realistic economic situation.
Quite possibly not. However, these are the rules we have, and they say magic is absurdly expensive, and would not limit technology much at all.

[Scarlet Knight]

To put in D&D mechanics, it's actually quite simple.

Blackwing's a raven, and Ravens afford a +2 appraisal bonus :smallwink:

Let's not forget one of the most basic of D&D mechanics: "The familiar has the exact amount of knowledge/information that the DM wishes the party to learn at the exact time he wishes them to learn it; no more, no less." :smallsigh:

[derfenrirwolv]

Let's not forget one of the most basic of D&D mechanics: "The familiar has the exact amount of knowledge/information that the DM wishes the party to learn at the exact time he wishes them to learn it; no more, no less." :smallsigh:

I thought that was the special ability of the "Old man in the Inn" prestige class?

[Selene]

It's been digitally enhanced, but is based on a photo from Apollo 17. Still, the stars are a bit too bright to be anything but artistry, so I see your point.

But back to Blackwing: there's no reason World 1.0 shouldn't have stars around it. He's not looking into real space after all. Who can say what illuminative properties the Snarlstuff has?

Not to mention he has birdvision. They have better eyesight than we do. Having never looked through bird eyes, I can't say whether they can see stars or not.