A question about PrC's

[Paganboy28]

OK, so here's the thing. If you are playing a dragon as a PC, can you go straight into a PrC as long as you meet the requirements?

So could a dragon with a caster level go into something like a Incantatrix or such as long as it meets the pre-reqs?

Or do you need to have a base class first...

[ZeroNumerous]

By RAW: You need at least a level in something that gives you spells. By RAI: Who cares? You're the goddamn Batman a dragon.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

As long as you meet the requirements, you can enter a prestige class, with or without a base class, just think of a monster's racial HD as its base class.

[ZeroNumerous]

As long as you meet the requirements, you can enter a prestige class, with or without a base class, just think of a monster's racial HD as its base class.

By RAW this doesn't work with a casting class.


Spells per Day/Spells Known
When a new archmage level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class in which he could cast 7th-level spells before he added the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class in which he could cast 7th-level spells before he became an archmage, he must decide to which class he adds each level of archmage for the purpose of determining spells per day.

Emphasis mine.

Plus, dragons gain age as they gain HD. So it doesn't work by RAI either.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

By RAW this doesn't work with a casting class.

Ah, missed that little bit. Yeah, that template seems to be on all advancement classes, so RAW, it does hamper dragons that don't take a level in sorcerer.




Plus, dragons gain age as they gain HD. So it doesn't work by RAI either.


I think you've got that reversed, otherwise, when playing a wyrmling dragon, when you leveled, you'd be forced to take more levels in dragon and then eat more LA.

The Draconomicon also mentions on page 141 that dragon PCs, when they age must take a dragon "class" level, but are otherwise free to take class levels between aging.

[KillianHawkeye]

By RAW this doesn't work with a casting class.

Technically, I think you can get around this if you are using a Savage Species-style monster class, because the monster class is used in lieu of RHD and LA.

[Gaiyamato]

Technically, I think you can get around this if you are using a Savage Species-style monster class, because the monster class is used in lieu of RHD and LA.

Yes, this works. mostly. lol.

[Xenogears]

Technically that only means he gains no benefit from the PrC. He can still waste his time taking the levels. Or get the class features that aren't a caster level increase. Pointless but still....

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Technically that only means he gains no benefit from the PrC. He can still waste his time taking the levels. Or get the class features that aren't a caster level increase. Pointless but still....

I would hardly call the Incantatrix's ability to reduce Metamagic costs to 0 to be pointless...

[Xenogears]

I would hardly call the Incantatrix's ability to reduce Metamagic costs to 0 to be pointless...

Well I've never looked at the class. I dont really play casters so it didn't interest me much. Besides considering that as a dragon you would already be way behind everyone else thanks to LA+RHD would you really want to lose any MORE caster levels?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Well I've never looked at the class. I dont really play casters so it didn't interest me much. Besides considering that as a dragon you would already be way behind everyone else thanks to LA+RHD would you really want to lose any MORE caster levels?

Dragons have casting inherent in their RHD... even better, most of them can cast cleric spells and a couple of domains as Arcane spells, so you can apply Incantatrix's cheese to divine spells!

So how do you make a dragon a threat again? Well, he took a few (non-associated) levels in Incantatrix...

[Keld Denar]

Plus, dragons gain age as they gain HD. So it doesn't work by RAI either.

Does that mean they get younger if you permanently level drain them?

:P

[Xenogears]

Dragons have casting inherent in their RHD... even better, most of them can cast cleric spells and a couple of domains as Arcane spells, so you can apply Incantatrix's cheese to divine spells!

So how do you make a dragon a threat again? Well, he took a few (non-associated) levels in Incantatrix...

And then Pun-Pun used his almighty "Eternity of inescapable crotch-kicking" power on him because at this point he might as well show up...

Edit:
Does that mean they get younger if you permanently level drain them?

:P

If I remember correctly that one cleric, Cadderly, that R. A. Salvatore wrote about used a spell to temporarily suck the age out of a dragon.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

And then Pun-Pun used his almighty "Eternity of inescapable crotch-kicking" power on him because at this point he might as well show up...

At least he's not getting one-rounded by a level 5 wizard anymore...

and I would hardly call an Incantatrix Dragon to be on the level with Pun-Pun. Batman Wizard and Cindy perhaps, but not Pun-Pun

[Xenogears]

At least he's not getting one-rounded by a level 5 wizard anymore...

and I would hardly call an Incantatrix Dragon to be on the level with Pun-Pun. Batman Wizard and Cindy perhaps, but not Pun-Pun

That would be because Pun-Pun is literally omnipotent. Despite the fact that omnipotence itself is a paradox...

Still point being that trying to compare anything omnipotent to anything not omnipotent is pointless. If say we were to rank the level of cheese on a 1-100 scale then non-ssociated levels count as 100. Pun-Pun is infinity still. Since 100 is as close as you can ever get in this situation It's almost fair...

[Eldan]

Well, Pun-Pun can just cast "Remove Paradox".

Anyway, are you sure that a dragon's ability to cast as a sorcerer of a certain level doesn't let him qualify and advance his casting? Because I think I've seen it used in that way.

[Xenogears]

Well, Pun-Pun can just cast "Remove Paradox".

Anyway, are you sure that a dragon's ability to cast as a sorcerer of a certain level doesn't let him qualify and advance his casting? Because I think I've seen it used in that way.

By the way it is worded the advancement only applies to a spellcasting class and thus the fact that a dragon can cast spells is irrelevant since he still does not possess a class that grants spellcasting. He can qualify for most PrC's since they usually list something like: "Able to cast level X spells."

[Cyrion]

A PrC question going in a slightly different direction-

On one of the other threads someone said that by RAW PrCs don't count against you when looking at whether you take the 20% XP hit for not having levels within 1 of each other, but I can't find where in the rules it says so. Can someone point me in the right direction for that?

[Teron]

A PrC question going in a slightly different direction-

On one of the other threads someone said that by RAW PrCs don't count against you when looking at whether you take the 20% XP hit for not having levels within 1 of each other, but I can't find where in the rules it says so. Can someone point me in the right direction for that?
As I recall, that rule was accidentally left out of the 3.5 DMG. It's in the errata and the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/prestigeClasses.htm), though.

[Cyrion]

As I recall, that rule was accidentally left out of the 3.5 DMG. It's in the errata and the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/prestigeClasses.htm), though.

It's not in the DMG errata (I just went looking for it) but it's in the SRD.

[Teron]

Ah, my mistake (and WotC's, but given their track record with errata, I really should have checked). Still, that passage's disappearance in the 3.5 update is officially an editing error, not a rule change.

[RagnaroksChosen]

Interesting that yous aid it would not work.

1. Dragons HD count as a sorcerer so he could advance his spell casting more.
2. if we look at the dragonomicon Under the example of unholy ravager of tiamat in there spell casting section they can choose to advance there cleric levels or there sorcerer levels.

Racial HD are equivelent of Class levels for spell casting
Take a look at the rakasha... they cast as a x level sorcerer and can take PRCs based on that.