Terraforming Mars with Magic

[Eldan]

An idea that came to me in the 3 spells/person thread: what would be needed to terraform mars, given DnD magic? So far, what I can think of is this:

-Teleport to reach mars. I think normal teleport would be quite sufficient, since it always seems to drop you on the ground, so arriving a few hundred kilometers off target wouldn't be too bad. Teleportation circles would also be nice.

-A spell that lets you survive without air, and in extreme cold. I think I've seen a spell somewhere that let's you breathe without environmental air, but I'm not sure where.

Now for the terraforming itself:

Create water is a good start. Is there a "create air" spell? Druid spells to create volcanoes might help warm up the athmosphere and fill it with a few greenhouse gases.

After that, bacterial life can be brought in via teleport. I guess a few bulk loads of fertilizer also help. Of course, setting up a working ecosystem, even on bacterial level is incredibly complex, but just some lake water would make a good starting point.


So, what did I forget?

Edit: in the other thread, "making the atmosphere stick" was mentioned. I have a few ideas, but they all seem unreliable and inefficient:

Wall of Force-ing the atmosphere in. Probably not the best course.
Using spells to create metal in large enough amounts that the planet gains sufficient gravity? Would probably also take ages.

[kamikasei]

To survive without air, you can use an iridescent ioun stone if nothing else.

The obvious solution would be "portals to the Elemental Planes of a) Air and b) Water".

You'll need more than a bit of fertilizer - Mars will need tremendous amounts of nitrogen and other trace elements introduced.

You'd also need a way to get it to retain the atmosphere - or go with leaving enough portals open to replenish the air lost to the planet's weak gravity.

[Eldan]

Right. Here I am, writing stuff for a planescape campaign which involves portals to provide necessary resources and didn't think of that. The question is, of course, if our universe is connected to Planescape and the elemental planes :smalltongue:

Okay. Gates to Water and Air. And I wasn't necessarily thinking of "a bit of fertilizer", I was thinking of dumping truckloads into teleportation circles. Would still take ages, of course.

[kamikasei]

To be fair, I have no idea if you can, with existing spells, open a permament gate to an elemental plane that will let that element come flooding through. Hmmm. You could use decanters of endless water. You could try to make a decanter of endless air - or is there something of that sort already available?

[Ravens_cry]

There is a bottle of air (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/WondrousItems.htm#bottleofAir). Though you would need a lot of money. Calculating from troy ounces per pound, and calculating gold coins per troy ounce, finding the price of gold per ounce, calculating the price of a single gold coin in bullion I say a single bottle of air costs $2,034,205 US dollars.
My Math:
US$962 per troy ounce
1 pound per 14.5833 troy oz.
50 gold coins per pound
0.2916668 troy oz. per gold coin
US$280.58 per gold coin
7,250 gold coins per bottle of air
US$2,034,205 per bottle of air

[Eldan]

Actually, thinking about it:
What about mini-ecosystems until the large terraforming is through? Use six walls of force to create a cube, fill it half with water, add soil, fertilizer, algae... basically a small pond. Still damn cold, but that could probably be changed somehow.

And yes, a handful of decanters of endless water, set on maximum strength would take care of the water problem... also add some weight which would help with gravity.
How long would it take to create enough metal to make mars heavy enough for an atmosphere?


Edit: I bet NASA would gladly pay 2 million dollars for an endless air supply. I bet with some tinkering, it could even be used as a cooling system for spacecraft.

[Ravens_cry]

Actually, thinking about it:
What about mini-ecosystems until the large terraforming is through? Use six walls of force to create a cube, fill it half with water, add soil, fertilizer, algae... basically a small pond. Still damn cold, but that could probably be changed somehow.

And yes, a handful of decanters of endless water, set on maximum strength would take care of the water problem... also add some weight which would help with gravity.
How long would it take to create enough metal to make mars heavy enough for an atmosphere?
So, Paraterraforming then, basically making the world a giant greenhouse, incrementally? Slightly more viable, and would be able to start out as a 'simple' self sustaining colony.

[kamikasei]

What about mini-ecosystems until the large terraforming is through? Use six walls of force to create a cube, fill it half with water, add soil, fertilizer, algae... basically a small pond. Still damn cold, but that could probably be changed somehow.

No need for walls of force - just colonize craters.


How long would it take to create enough metal to make mars heavy enough for an atmosphere?

It's already heavy enough for an atmosphere, just not a very thick one. I'd say a better bet than trying to massively increase the planet's gravity would be constant replenishment. Just leave those bottles of air always on at an appropriate level. (However, looking at the description, apparently you need to breathe out of them in order to extract the air - it doesn't come out by itself like a decanter. You could probably rig up a pump though. Powered by decanters!)

I mean, Mars already has a solid iron core. It's just a much smaller planet than Earth. You'd either have to pretty much coat the surface until it's a bigger planet, or drill to the core and add very, very dense metals.

[peacenlove]

To be fair, I have no idea if you can, with existing spells, open a permament gate to an elemental plane that will let that element come flooding through. Hmmm. You could use decanters of endless water. You could try to make a decanter of endless air - or is there something of that sort already available?

You can cause a planar breach that connects 2 planes and the area has the properties of both of them. The spell (actually a series of them) is found in the planar handbook

[Eldan]

The walls of force would actually be to hold the atmosphere and water in one place until mars has it's own of sufficient density.

So, with air and water covered, what's next? Importing simple life should be easy enough given teleportation mechanisms.
Problems I could see: insufficient sunlight for most plants. I'm not sure how much light mars actually gets, but it's at least less than on earth. Then, the atmosphere would have to be heated up to comfortable levels. Can we make a "Bottle of Warm Air" or a "Bottle of Greenhouse Gases"?

[Xenogears]

The walls of force would actually be to hold the atmosphere and water in one place until mars has it's own of sufficient density.

So, with air and water covered, what's next? Importing simple life should be easy enough given teleportation mechanisms.
Problems I could see: insufficient sunlight for most plants. I'm not sure how much light mars actually gets, but it's at least less than on earth. Then, the atmosphere would have to be heated up to comfortable levels. Can we make a "Bottle of Warm Air" or a "Bottle of Greenhouse Gases"?

Well for sunlgight you could use Hallow to tie a daylight spell to a square for a year. Just have to do updates every so often...

[kamikasei]

They don't have soil, they have regolith. So you'd have to precede any "proper" plants with simpler forms of life, bacteria and algae and lichen and so on, to turn the regolith in to soil and then earthworms and the like to aerate it. These would have to be engineered to a) fix nitrogen (which you'd have to supply) and b) reduce salinity.

Sunlight shouldn't be that much of a problem. Mars is about half again as far from the sun as Earth is, so should have about 45% the sunlight if I'm calculating correctly. I'm sure you can find arctic and mountainous species on Earth that can deal with that. If you want to be able to transplant life from any biome on Earth, then you'd probably have to resort to epic magic to conjure a giant light-amplifying mirror complex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soletta) between Mars and Sol.

[Ravens_cry]

The walls of force would actually be to hold the atmosphere and water in one place until mars has it's own of sufficient density.

So, with air and water covered, what's next? Importing simple life should be easy enough given teleportation mechanisms.
Problems I could see: insufficient sunlight for most plants. I'm not sure how much light mars actually gets, but it's at least less than on earth. Then, the atmosphere would have to be heated up to comfortable levels. Can we make a "Bottle of Warm Air" or a "Bottle of Greenhouse Gases"?
Mars actually gets surprisingly warm in the summer at the equator. 27 degrees Celsius in fact. With more atmosphere, it would be even warmer. (http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/M/Mars.html). The amount of light is about a third (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_sunlight_does_Mars_get). There are many shade loving plants, so that actually isn't too much of a problem. And the daylight spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/Daylight.htm), or an item that provides it, could perk things up as needed. Mars rotates about the same speed, so that also isn't a problem. The longer year might be. This could be simulated indoors to find out.

[Myshlaevsky]

No need for walls of force - just colonize craters.



It's already heavy enough for an atmosphere, just not a very thick one. I'd say a better bet than trying to massively increase the planet's gravity would be constant replenishment. Just leave those bottles of air always on at an appropriate level. (However, looking at the description, apparently you need to breathe out of them in order to extract the air - it doesn't come out by itself like a decanter. You could probably rig up a pump though. Powered by decanters!)

I mean, Mars already has a solid iron core. It's just a much smaller planet than Earth. You'd either have to pretty much coat the surface until it's a bigger planet, or drill to the core and add very, very dense metals.

Is the aim sustainability, or just survivability? Increasing the gravity would be a better bet in the long run because you're just going to constantly run up against the problem of escaping gases.

[Eldan]

The longer year in itself shouldn't be too problematic. There were deciduous plants in the antarctic for much of earth's history, so they can survive a six month winter. It has been simulated, and is possible.

Didn't think of the daylight spell, though. That one is rather obvious.

[Jayngfet]

Decanter of endless water, bottles of air, everburning torches to provide light to plants.

[Eldan]

I strongly suspect that torchlight wouldn't be even remotely intense enough for plants. But a permanent daylight spell would help there.

[daggaz]

God you guys.... You are also going to need space marines. To keep the aliens at bay.

"They mostly come out at night. ...Mostly."

[Eldan]

With a little magic, space marines aren't that difficult. Polymorph a few humans into goliaths and give them adamantium full plate. Then equip them with whatever modern weaponry and magic items.

[Ravens_cry]

Is the aim sustainability, or just survivability? Increasing the gravity would be a better bet in the long run because you're just going to constantly run up against the problem of escaping gases.
And with bottles of air, it can be constantly replenished. Also the escaping is thought, this is all theoretical mind, to be fairly gradual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming), thousands of years. Not even an elf would notice over a single generation.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

There is a bottle of air (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/WondrousItems.htm#bottleofAir). Though you would need a lot of money. Calculating from troy ounces per pound, and calculating gold coins per troy ounce, finding the price of gold per ounce, calculating the price of a single gold coin in bullion I say a single bottle of air costs $2,034,205 US dollars.
My Math:
US$962 per troy ounce
1 pound per 14.5833 troy oz.
50 gold coins per pound
0.2916668 troy oz. per gold coin
US$280.58 per gold coin
7,250 gold coins per bottle of air
US$2,034,205 per bottle of air

You can't really calculate the cost of something in USD that way, because there's obviously a lot of inflation in the D&D worlds due to gold's use as currency and its prevalence in the world. If you look at commodity prices in the PHB and such rather than coins' weight in gold, to determine the relative purchasing power of a given amount of gold rather than what the gold's worth would be here, 1 gp actually comes out closer to $1-$4. That would put our bottle of end at a nice (and much more affordable) $29,000 at the top end.

[Myshlaevsky]

And with bottles of air, it can be constantly replenished. Also the escaping is thought, this is all theoretical mind, to be fairly gradual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming), thousands of years. Not even an elf would notice over a single generation.

I was more concerned with bodies of water, but I suppose decanters of endless water solve that problem too. Regardless, even if we skip this particular Martian environmental problem by using magic items forever, there's probably some other problem associated with solar winds & UV light that we are ignoring.

[kamikasei]

there's probably some other problem associated with solar winds & UV light that we are ignoring.

Radiation due to the lack of a magnetosphere. Nothing you can do about that with your atmosphere, though. Well, you could try putting something into the atmosphere that would act as a shield, but it's a completely separate issue from just making the place breathable.

[Myshlaevsky]

Radiation due to the lack of a magnetosphere. Nothing you can do about that with your atmosphere, though. Well, you could try putting something into the atmosphere that would act as a shield, but it's a completely separate issue from just making the place breathable.

Could just zombify everyone?

[SinsI]

How about moving it closer to the Sun? And increasing the gravity by gating all the necessary materials from Elemental plans of Air and Earth.

[ZeroNumerous]

Shapechange: Elder Elemental

Dig to the planet's core.

1) If it exists, Polymorph Any Object to turn it into a denser material like iron.

2) If it exists and it's too small: Wall of Iron.

3) If it doesn't exist: Wall of Iron.

Repeat until you get earth-like density.

Go back to surface.

Gate: Elemental Plane of Air.

Gate: Elemental Plane of Water.

Gate: Elemental Plane of Fire(beside the one with air).

Wait several million years.

Close previous Gates.

Chain Gate: Balors. Tell them to teleport to earth and back, day in and day out, with buckets of bacteria-filled water. Have them dump the bacteria into the existing oceans.

Wait for as long as necessary.

Proceed from there.

[Thant]

This could make an excellent campaign plot in a Spelljammer-like setting: just pick a random desert planet instead of Mars, a fleet of renegade mages jammer ships searching for a new home after their planet was destroyed in a terrible cataclysm, an mind-flayer fleet that pursues the fleeing wizards and some extraordinary cosmic mystery/force behind everything and voila!:smallsmile:

OT: Why you just wouldn't employ several epic casters to use Wish several times and finish the job before breakfast?:smallconfused:

[Eldan]

Well, I guess there is a certain element of "what is the lowest possible level we can do this at, and with the lowest possible cost".

If we just go epic, research a spell called "Terraform World" and be done with it. Chaingate solars as necessary or get NASA/ESA to train ten million level one wizards for mitigating factors.

[Myshlaevsky]

Well, I guess there is a certain element of "what is the lowest possible level we can do this at, and with the lowest possible cost".

If we just go epic, research a spell called "Terraform World" and be done with it. Chaingate solars as necessary or get NASA/ESA to train ten million level one wizards for mitigating factors.

That's pretty awesome in and of itself, to be honest. Consider the poster above's idea of using it as a plot point in a Spelljammer setting and you could have a race of disenfranchised Illithids (say, put out by the Gith) who are capturing hundreds of thousands of low-level wizards to cast an epic spell and recreate their home planet.

[13_CBS]

Shapechange: Elder Elemental

Dig to the planet's core.

1) If it exists, Polymorph Any Object to turn it into a denser material like iron.

2) If it exists and it's too small: Wall of Iron.

3) If it doesn't exist: Wall of Iron.

Repeat until you get earth-like density.

Go back to surface.

Gate: Elemental Plane of Air.

Gate: Elemental Plane of Water.

Gate: Elemental Plane of Fire(beside the one with air).

Wait several million years.

Close previous Gates.

Chain Gate: Balors. Tell them to teleport to earth and back, day in and day out, with buckets of bacteria-filled water. Have them dump the bacteria into the existing oceans.

Wait for as long as necessary.

Proceed from there.

About the "wait for billions of years" issue...would it be possible to shift the entire planet of Mars to a demiplane where time runs faster?

[Eldan]

That's pretty awesome in and of itself, to be honest. Consider the poster above's idea of using it as a plot point in a Spelljammer setting and you could have a race of disenfranchised Illithids (say, put out by the Gith) who are capturing hundreds of thousands of low-level wizards to cast an epic spell and recreate their home planet.

Actually, if I remember correctly, there was a source that mentioned the illithid empire, near the end of the multiverse, using ringworlds.

[Ravens_cry]

That's pretty awesome in and of itself, to be honest. Consider the poster above's idea of using it as a plot point in a Spelljammer setting and you could have a race of disenfranchised Illithids (say, put out by the Gith) who are capturing hundreds of thousands of low-level wizards to cast an epic spell and recreate their home planet.
Your missing the really awesome part.
NASA.
Training.
Wizards.

:biggrin:

[ZeroNumerous]

About the "wait for billions of years" issue...would it be possible to shift the entire planet of Mars to a demiplane where time runs faster?

No, but you could just be an Elan, undead or any other type of immortal. Though, I suppose it's theoretically possible.. You just need some way to lift Mars as a maximum load.

Say, 9^9001 strength?

[Eldan]

Well, we were summoning balors...

How many balors do we need to push mars into the same orbit as earth?

[Flickerdart]

About the "wait for billions of years" issue...would it be possible to shift the entire planet of Mars to a demiplane where time runs faster?
Doesn't seem like it: a Gate is maximum 20ft diameter, and Plane Shift doesn't affect objects. I suppose you could have a cheesed-out Hulking Hurler pick up mars and put it in his inventory, then Plane Shift.

[Myshlaevsky]

Doesn't seem like it: a Gate is maximum 20ft diameter, and Plane Shift doesn't affect objects. I suppose you could have a cheesed-out Hulking Hurler pick up mars and put it in his inventory, then Plane Shift.

Just throw Mars through the required elemental planes.

[13_CBS]

Hrm...then would it be possible to make an epic spell that could shift something as big as Mars to a demiplane? Or make a demiplane around Mars?

[kamikasei]

First you would have to deal with making a demiplane that large, which would be a hell of a proposition given genesis as written.

[ZeroNumerous]

How many balors do we need to push mars into the same orbit as earth?

The way the pushing rules work? Infinite. And even then it fails because those rules only account for one person doing the pushing.

The only ways we can move Mars are:

1) Piece by piece via Teleportation Circle. Just gotta have Earth Monoliths take it apart and reassemble it on site.

2) Piece by piece via Plane Shift. This will require several trillion creatures capable of casting plane shift(not plane shifting themselves, but actually casting it) and the above Earth Monoliths.

3) As one whole piece via Greater Teleport. Greater Teleport allows you to bring along any number of objects, so long as you can lift each individual object as less than your maximum load. Requirement: 9^9001 strength.

4) As above, except with Plane Shift.


First you would have to deal with making a demiplane that large, which would be a hell of a proposition given genesis as written.

If we're using Epic Magic, then it's trivial. Then again, using Epic Magic we could just make a spell that completely terraforms the planet, life included.

Theoretically, however, we could astrally project then chain-gate Black Ethergaunts(they're not native to the Astral, if I recall correctly). They each learn the Genesis Spell from our book then start mass casting overlapping planes.

Alternatively: They all also astrally project, then we soul jar our old bodies with, say.. Rocks. Then have our old bodies possessed by ghosts and double our work force.

[Eldan]

You know what? At this point it's probably easier just making a new planet from scratch.

[Ravens_cry]

We don't need to move Mars. Mars is actually in the habitable zone. It's would be colder then Earth, but with a thick enough atmosphere, it would definitely be liveable.

[ZeroNumerous]

We don't need to move Mars. Mars is actually in the habitable zone. It's would be colder then Earth, but with a thick enough atmosphere, it would definitely be liveable.

We want to move Mars to avoid the whole "Wait for billions of years as the Elemental Planes of Air, Fire and Water terraform the world for us."


You know what? At this point it's probably easier just making a new planet from scratch.

With Epic Magic? Either one is just a few rounds on your Genesis plane and several billion chain-gated Solars.

Without Epic Magic? Probably. I mean, Wall of Iron to form the core, Gate to Elemental Plane of Earth + Transmute Rock to Mud, then have elementals shove the stuff through the gate. When you've built a nice base, add atmosphere/heat/water via the above gates to Air, Fire and Water. Wait for several billion years. Done.

[Eldan]

I still like the image of mars with a mountain of balors sticking of one end, all pushing closer to the sun while a single summoner stands on the sunward side guiding them telepathically. Probably with help from a few telescopes on earth.

Edit: Oh, and for the elemental transformation plan, I'd use earth, water and radiance, instead of fire.

[Myshlaevsky]

You know what? At this point it's probably easier just making a new planet from scratch.

This is just awesome, though. I mean:


Theoretically, however, we could astrally project then chain-gate Black Ethergaunts(they're not native to the Astral, if I recall correctly). They each learn the Genesis Spell from our book then start mass casting overlapping planes.


How many balors do we need to push mars into the same orbit as earth?

Madness.

[ZeroNumerous]

Edit: Oh, and for the elemental transformation plan, I'd use earth, water and radiance, instead of fire.

Fire adds both heat and allows the air coming from the Air gate to spread(by rising no less). Using light would take longer and not spread the air out faster either, requiring us to wait even a little bit longer.

[Ravens_cry]

We want to move Mars to avoid the whole "Wait for billions of years as the Elemental Planes of Air, Fire and Water terraform the world for us."
There are other ways. Say we use the 'create wall of iron' spell in Mars orbit create mirrors to focus sunlight at the poles.With no air, the iron would be shiny, and stay shiny.
This would melt the ice caps, releasing both water vapour and CO2, both of which are greenhouse gasses. Add plants to the thickened atmosphere, and use plant growth so they grow faster.
Moving it to Earth orbit would be a massive undertaking, and if you break it up into little pieces to do, your going to have to wait for it to cool into a planet with a solid surface. I think the mirrors would take a shorter time. Also, even if it isn't, you only skip the step of thickening the atmosphere by heating. You still have to convert it to a breathable one for humans.

[ZeroNumerous]

A bunch of stuff

That's not nearly as quickly as the aforementioned Triple Gate. Magic defeats science. :smalltongue:

EDIT: Also, I think you've got something crossed. I don't want to move Mars. I want to put it on a demiplane that has the enhanced time trait. I don't want to spend billions of years waiting for stuff to melt. I don't even wanna spend one year. 275 billion years:1 round ratio is good for me.

[AstralFire]

With no air, the iron would be shiny, and stay shiny.

While this makes sense, I must interject with a, "wait, isn't Mars red because of all the rust?"

[Eldan]

You could wait until the planet solidifies again, or just use sovereign glue to stick the pieces together. :smalltongue:

Sorry, but sovereign glue was a running gag in my old game group.

GM: What do you use to draw the magic circle? Blood, salt, cold iron, chalk?

Player: Sovereign Glue.

[Myshlaevsky]

There are other ways. Say we use the 'create wall of iron' spell in Mars orbit create mirrors to focus sunlight at the poles.With no air, the iron would be shiny, and stay shiny.
This would melt the ice caps, releasing both water vapour and CO2, both of which are greenhouse gasses. Add plants to the thickened atmosphere, and use plant growth so they grow faster.
Moving it to Earth orbit would be a massive undertaking, and if you break it up into little pieces to do, your going to have to wait for it to cool into a planet with a solid surface. I think the mirrors would take a shorter time. Also, even if it isn't, you only skip the step of thickening the atmosphere by heating. You still have to convert it to a breathable one for humans.

Problem here is without an increased magnetic field and increased gravity you're just going to lose that water again. Decanters and air bottles are a better solution.

[Random832]

While this makes sense, I must interject with a, "wait, isn't Mars red because of all the rust?"

"No air" is not a statement that applies to Mars. Now, there's not very much, and there's not very much oxygen content in that, but that obviously doesn't mean that what is present isn't enough to cause oxidation of the iron-rich minerals on the surface.

[Ravens_cry]

Problem here is without an increased magnetic field and increased gravity you're just going to lose that water again. Decanters and air bottles are a better solution.
Just use those any that the poles and permafrost don't provide and any topping up.

While this makes sense, I must interject with a, "wait, isn't Mars red because of all the rust?" The plan is for them to be in orbit, no air there.

[Thant]

It seems to me that without epic magic we would all end in

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/failroad.jpg

So just wish the damn thing or something.

[ZeroNumerous]

So just wish the damn thing or something.

Wish isn't Epic Magic.

[Ravens_cry]

So just wish the damn thing or something.
But wishing, which isn't Epic, doesn't kill enough catgirls!:smallamused:

[Baron Malkar]

If I remember correctly isn't there two very convenient balls of mass orbiting Mars that could be used to increase the planets mass?:smallbiggrin:

You could use Major Creation to create several massive cubes of metallic aluminum powder that would react with the rust strewn about the surface to extract oxygen and dismiss the spell to release a starter atmosphere.

[Ravens_cry]

If I remember correctly isn't there two very convenient balls of mass orbiting Mars that could be used to increase the planets mass?:smallbiggrin:

They are tiny compared to Mars.The largest is only 22.2 kilometres across. They would add little to the gravitational pull.
edit: Their impact would release gases and dust into the atmosphere, possibly triggering volcanic activity, further thickening the atmosphere.



You could use Major Creation to create several massive cubes of metallic aluminum powder that would react with the rust strewn about the surface to extract oxygen and dismiss the spell to release a starter atmosphere.
Hmmm. . .mixing that with permafrost and ice cap melting would certainly thicken up that atmosphere. A rather large value of 'several' would be needed, however.

[Myshlaevsky]

They are tiny compared to Mars.The largest is only 22.2 kilometres across. They would add little to the gravitational pull.
edit: Their impact would release gases and dust into the atmosphere, possibly triggering volcanic activity, further thickening the atmosphere.


Hmmm. . .mixing that with permafrost and ice cap melting would certainly thicken up that atmosphere. A rather large value of 'several' would be needed, however.

IIRC, Mars lack of magnetic field is related to it's extremely poor volcanic activity. Smaller planet cools too quick, or something like that.

[kamikasei]

IIRC, Mars lack of magnetic field is related to it's extremely poor volcanic activity. Smaller planet cools too quick, or something like that.

It's that its core is solid. It's thought that Earth's magnetic field is due to the motion of its liquid core.

So if you could melt the core, and keep it molten...

Also! All you people trying to increase the planet's mass and therefore gravity, have you no poetry in your souls? The low gravity and the freakishly tall people who can fly in unpowered birdsuits between dreamlike towering architecture are part of the point of colonizing Mars.

[AstralFire]

Also! All you people trying to increase the planet's mass and therefore gravity, have you no poetry in your souls? The low gravity and the freakishly tall people who can fly in unpowered birdsuits between dreamlike towering architecture are part of the point of colonizing Mars.

I think this is the strangest use of 'have you no poetry in your souls' I have ever seen.

[Myshlaevsky]

It's that its core is solid. It's thought that Earth's magnetic field is due to the motion of its liquid core.

So if you could melt the core, and keep it molten...

Also! All you people trying to increase the planet's mass and therefore gravity, have you no poetry in your souls? The low gravity and the freakishly tall people who can fly in unpowered birdsuits between dreamlike towering architecture are part of the point of colonizing Mars.

See, I was pretty sure Earth's core was solid too, purely because of the enormous pressure put on it. My understanding was that the liquid outer core caused currents which created a magnetic field. Is Mars core entirely solid, then? With no liquid at all? There must be some degree of liquidity somewhere.

[Ravens_cry]

IIRC, Mars lack of magnetic field is related to it's extremely poor volcanic activity. Smaller planet cools too quick, or something like that.
That's why I wonder if having a 22 km rock slam into it might, excuse the pun, 'shake things up'? It is thought to have a molten mantel (http://nineplanets.org/mars.html) at least.

[kamikasei]

See, I was pretty sure Earth's core was solid too, purely because of the enormous pressure put on it. My understanding was that the liquid outer core caused currents which created a magnetic field. Is Mars core entirely solid, then? With no liquid at all? There must be some degree of liquidity somewhere.

Yeah, Earth's inner core is solid due to pressure, but Mars' is solid right through. It may have some degree of plasticity due to heat, but it doesn't have currents.

[Myshlaevsky]

Yeah, Earth's inner core is solid due to pressure, but Mars' is solid right through. It may have some degree of plasticity due to heat, but it doesn't have currents.

Cool. Let's open up a gate to the Elemental Plane of Fire right in the middle, then.

[kamikasei]

I think this is the strangest use of 'have you no poetry in your souls' I have ever seen.

When kindling life on a dead world, poetry is mandatory. Just do your math first and make sure you've got it right, then wax poetic about it.

[Baron Malkar]

Maybe a satellite network of magic items similar to the Orb of Storms except creating a Resilient/Telekinetic sphere could solve a few problems

[ZeroNumerous]

Maybe a satellite network of magic items similar to the Orb of Storms except creating a Resilient/Telekinetic sphere could solve a few problems

Well if we're gonna make custom magic items then why not just make a satellite network of use-activated intelligent items that cast Gate? Gating in the atmosphere from the Elemental Plane of Air solves the breathability issue, fire solves the heating issue and water could cover the planet in a large ocean rather quickly.

Then you just need life. (Which could even be gated in)

[ritztastic]

Cool. Let's open up a gate to the Elemental Plane of Fire right in the middle, then.

My thoughts exactly.

Or, if we wanna be silly, use Epic magic, but not like you'd expect.

Make self-replicating Living Spells with the ability to spew forth the various gases we want to fill the atmosphere with. Their exponential growth should speed up the process of terraforming. When the atmosphere is sufficiently full, get rid of them, either through pre-engineered kill switches or through an army of Gateraped Balors.

I like the idea of an ooze crawling along, engulfing a rock, dividing, and then both spewing out several cubic meters of gas.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Make self-replicating Living Spells with the ability to spew forth the various gases we want to fill the atmosphere with.

Why make them self-replicating? A Living Spell of Gate to the Elemental planes of Air, Fire, or Water solves the problem of constantly casting Gate. A Summoning Ooze provides wildlife. Orbs of storms provide weather conditions until the planet can support weather patterns itself, press-gang druids or some foresty monster (Dryads and their ilk work best, they can provide status updates on the plants and so on) to tend the wild-life while you work on making it all self-sustainable.

Oh, and don't forget the army of golems/magically engineered super soldiers to deal with the undoubtedly hostile natural denizens that are likely to take offense to you terraforming THEIR planet. :smallwink:

[Yora]

Maybe Mars isn't the right stelar body to begin with. It does have some Ice, but from what I know, it's entirely dead.

Why not kick-start another object in the solar system? There are at least two moons with possible liquid water layers, and Titan has been described as "similar to earths condition millions of years ago."

[ZeroNumerous]

Why not kick-start another object in the solar system? There are at least two moons with possible liquid water layers, and Titan has been described as "similar to earths condition millions of years ago."

Whether it's Mars, Titan, Pluto or Alpha-9538223470: The procedure is the same so long as it's a terrestrial world.

[AstralFire]

GUYS GUYS GUYS

I've got it.

Level 7 druids. HUNDREDS OF THEM. Neutralize Poison on Venus!

[ZeroNumerous]

Level 7 druids. HUNDREDS OF THEM. Neutralize Poison on Venus!

Eh.

Constantly active ring gate to, uh.. Lets pick a planet we don't like. How about Mercury? ..Well ya, a constantly active ring gate will just suck the atmosphere out without involving anyone but ourselves.

[Yora]

How do you want to handle the air pressure of 93 times the one of earth? ^^
And 500°C is also a little problem for carbon based life.

The best thing to do with Venus is polymorphing into an outsider and calling yourself Asmodeus.

[Flickerdart]

Couldn't we jack some of the greenhouse gases from Venus and put them on Mars? Then we can have two habitable planets for the price of one and a half.

[Myshlaevsky]

Why make them self-replicating? A Living Spell of Gate to the Elemental planes of Air, Fire, or Water solves the problem of constantly casting Gate. A Summoning Ooze provides wildlife. Orbs of storms provide weather conditions until the planet can support weather patterns itself, press-gang druids or some foresty monster (Dryads and their ilk work best, they can provide status updates on the plants and so on) to tend the wild-life while you work on making it all self-sustainable.

Oh, and don't forget the army of golems/magically engineered super soldiers to deal with the undoubtedly hostile natural denizens that are likely to take offense to you terraforming THEIR planet. :smallwink:

Will they be adequately protected from atomic, biological and chemical warfare?

[ritztastic]

Couldn't we jack some of the greenhouse gases from Venus and put them on Mars? Then we can have two habitable planets for the price of one and a half.

As long as we filtered out all the deadly stuff, I suppose that could work.

But it doesn't require millions of Balors pushing or controlled growth of Living Spells! What fun is that?

[Yora]

As long as we filtered out all the deadly stuff, I suppose that could work.
The atmophere of venus consists of 96,5% carbon dioxide and 3,5% nitrogen. :smallbiggrin:
But I guess if you remove the carbon dioxide, you lose 95% of the atmosphere. Which at the same timemakes the air pressure comfartable.

Maybe it would be more practical to create an entirely new planet from scratch? :smalltongue:

[ZeroNumerous]

The best thing to do with Venus is polymorphing into an outsider and calling yourself Asmodeus.

Or just, you know, Ring Gates. Fixes heat, air pressure and deadly gas.

[Yora]

But it's like hell! Don't destroy our own real almost demi-plane! ^^

[Ravens_cry]

The atmophere of venus consists of 96,5% carbon dioxide and 3,5% nitrogen. :smallbiggrin:
But I guess if you remove the carbon dioxide, you lose 95% of the atmosphere. Which at the same timemakes the air pressure comfartable.

Maybe it would be more practical to create an entirely new planet from scratch? :smalltongue:
You don't want to remove the Carbon Dioxide. Plants love it, and will make a breathable atmosphere for free out of it if you add water and trace nutrients.
Mars has water, plenty of it. It's just frozen.
But Carbon Dioxide is a greenhouse gas.

[Eldan]

If I remember correctly isn't there two very convenient balls of mass orbiting Mars that could be used to increase the planets mass?:smallbiggrin:

You could use Major Creation to create several massive cubes of metallic aluminum powder that would react with the rust strewn about the surface to extract oxygen and dismiss the spell to release a starter atmosphere.

I agree with this plan. Any terraforming plan involving Thermite is a good plan.

[AstralFire]

The atmophere of venus consists of 96,5% carbon dioxide and 3,5% nitrogen. :smallbiggrin:
But I guess if you remove the carbon dioxide, you lose 95% of the atmosphere. Which at the same timemakes the air pressure comfartable.

Maybe it would be more practical to create an entirely new planet from scratch? :smalltongue:

Okay, Zero's earlier suggestion holds then - direct gate into Plane of Air. It works, because Venus can hold an atmosphere. Mars has trouble doing so.

[Flickerdart]

Ok, so we do a Gate from the Plane of Air to Venus, and from Venus to Mars. Eventually it should equalize into something livable.

[Kobold-Bard]

My first tangent thread. YAY!

In other news, I suggest our first port of call should be Pluto. I feel bad for the little guy, losing his planet status. I say we use our insane magic powers to do right the Little Planet that Could (or couldn't, as the case may be).

[Myshlaevsky]

My first tangent thread. YAY!

In other news, I suggest our first port of call should be Pluto. I feel bad for the little guy, losing his planet status. I say we use our insane magic powers to do right the Little Planet that Could (or couldn't, as the case may be).

This thread is why the Tippyverse doesn't exist. High level wizards are too easily distracted.

[AstralFire]

My first tangent thread. YAY!

In other news, I suggest our first port of call should be Pluto. I feel bad for the little guy, losing his planet status. I say we use our insane magic powers to do right the Little Planet that Could (or couldn't, as the case may be).

...The only way you're going to make Pluto livable is by Wishing a atmosphere onto it, followed by double casted permanenced Reverse Gravity, and a lot of it.

[ZeroNumerous]

...The only way you're going to make Pluto livable is by Wishing a atmosphere onto it, followed by double casted permanenced Reverse Gravity, and a lot of it.

Now I feel challenged.

Requirements: 1 casting of Polymorph Any Object. Gate-chain: Elder Fire Monoliths. Three intelligent Use Activated Items of Gate.

Round 1: PAO Pluto into molten iron.

Round 2 through Round(Until Finished): Cast Gate: Elemental Plane of Earth. Fire Monoliths move earth from the gate onto Pluto and continue to do so until the planet is earth-sized or similar. Wait until cool, or forcibly cool it via Gate: Elemental Plane of Water. Incidentally: You also add atmosphere that way.

Round(Until Above step is done) through Round(Several billion years later): Cast Gate: Elemental Plane of Air, Gate: Elemental Plane of Fire and Gate: Elemental Plane of Water. Fill world.

Round Final: Cast Animate Object: Choose Planet. Cast Greater Teleport: Bring planet to an area closer to the sun.

[AstralFire]

I feel that if you have made pluto earth-sized, it no longer qualifies as 'Pluto' at that point, much as Ocarina of Time is not a Mario 64 mod.

EDIT: Hooray, I'm a Troll itP. I must spend too much time here.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Ok, so we do a Gate from the Plane of Air to Venus, and from Venus to Mars. Eventually it should equalize into something livable.

Yes but only after we Gate in the Solars named Dr. Phil and Oprah.

[ZeroNumerous]

I feel that if you have made pluto earth-sized, it no longer qualifies as 'Pluto' at that point, much as Ocarina of Time is not a Mario 64 mod.

Pluto is still there. It just happens to be the Core of Neo Pluto.

[Eldan]

I still say enough walls of force to build a dome around a planet is the way to go with the really small ones.

Take that all the people who told me my moon gardens weren't feasible.

[Kobold-Bard]

I feel that if you have made pluto earth-sized, it no longer qualifies as 'Pluto' at that point, much as Ocarina of Time is not a Mario 64 mod.

EDIT: Hooray, I'm a Troll itP. I must spend too much time here.

I want to make an immature comment here, but I recently got my first infraction for a similar offence, so instead I'll suggest we PAO the moon into cheese and prove Wallace and Gromit right.

Edit: OOH OOH OOH!!! PAO Mars into a giant Mars Planets ball. <Copyright permission pending>

[Moriato]

You could use Major Creation to create several massive cubes of metallic aluminum powder that would react with the rust strewn about the surface to extract oxygen and dismiss the spell to release a starter atmosphere.

Uh... correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't that turn mars' surface into one big layer of thermite? Not that a planet covered in thermite doesn't have its uses, just living on one doesn't seem like the greatest idea.

[AstralFire]

Uh... correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't that turn mars' surface into one big layer of thermite?

I think that's part of the point (?) Not sure.

[Moriato]

I think that's part of the point (?) Not sure.

Just don't drop a match or Mars is gonna be the brightest star in earth's night sky for a night or two.

[ritztastic]

Just don't drop a match or Mars is gonna be the brightest star in earth's night sky for a night or two.

Well, that would certainly solve the whole "melt the ice caps" problem, as well as distributing the newly-gated air...

[ZeroNumerous]

Just don't drop a match or Mars is gonna be the brightest star in earth's night sky for a night or two.

Technically you can do that with just Prestidigitation. Continually raising something's temperature by 30 degrees every usage until you turn the planet's oxygen into a planet-wide fireball.

[hewhosaysfish]

Ok, so we do a Gate from the Plane of Air to Venus, and from Venus to Mars. Eventually it should equalize into something livable.


You couldn't open a Gate directly from Venus to Mars because they're on the same plane of existence.
You would have to have a Gate from Venus to specially-created, small, empty demi-plane and then a third Gate from that plane to Mars.

[ZeroNumerous]

You couldn't open a Gate directly from Venus to Mars because they're on the same plane of existence.
You would have to have a Gate from Venus to specially-created, small, empty demi-plane and then a third Gate from that plane to Mars.


If you paid any attention, you'd note that we were using Ring Gates.