[4E] Shaman's Spirit companion

[evildmguy]

I had a player roll up a shaman and play one. During the play test, he called several spirit companions to help in the fight. One of the questions that came up was whether or not they could help give flank bonuses to other allies.

In reading the PH2 about the shaman, it wasn't clear if it did or not. Anyone have any ideas or thoughts on this?

My thought was that it does allow an ally to flank with them because they can be used to attack, so they are a threat that can't be ignored. What has everyone else done?

Thanks!

edg

[Alfray Stryke]

I'd say under normal conditions it can't flank, as certain powers, such as Stalker's Spirit, say that they allow the companion to flank. So I'd rule it that it can only flank when a power, that says it allows the spirit companion to flank, is used.

Note: I'm planning on playing a Shaman in a few months, so if this is wrong, I'd like to know as well.

Also you said that several companions were summmoned, were those in the same encounter? I was under the impression you could only have a single companion at a time.

[Burley]

I'd say under normal conditions it can't flank, as certain powers, such as Stalker's Spirit, say that they allow the companion to flank. So I'd rule it that it can only flank when a power, that says it allows the spirit companion to flank, is used.

Note: I'm planning on playing a Shaman in a few months, so if this is wrong, I'd like to know as well.

Also you said that several companions were summmoned, where those in the same encounter? I was under the impression you could only have a single companion at a time.

You were under the correct impression. You get one spirit companion. The PHB2 says you get "a spirit companion" not "spirit companions."
Also, the only way to flank is with powers, so, you're correct there, as well.
Also, I see no feats that would allow flanking without using the specific powers.

[evildmguy]

I may have mis-stated it.

The player in question used his normal summon spirit companion ability. Then he had another ability, daily I think, to get another spirit companion. I think he then had another ability to conjure a warrior spirit, or the like.

I don't know the powers off hand which allowed him to do this. So, it's possible but it does seem to take specific powers or feats to do it.

Although, let me know if we were doing this wrong!

Thanks for the replies!

edg

[nightwyrm]

You need to take a look at the rules and keywords update on the back of the PHB2. Conjurations (which is what the spirit companions is) can't flank unless some powers say they can, but Summons which are treated as an ally can.

[evildmguy]

You need to take a look at the rules and keywords update on the back of the PHB2. Conjurations (which is what the spirit companions is) can't flank unless some powers say they can, but Summons which are treated as an ally can.

Aha! Thanks!

edg

[Asbestos]

I have to wonder why it was decided they can't flank but can make OAs...

[DragonBaneDM]

I have to wonder why it was decided they can't flank but can make OAs...

I guess one way to justify this would be that the spirit companion is more in tune with the enemies of it's master than the master's allies unless some sort of spiritual link is made between them via a power.

[evildmguy]

I have to wonder why it was decided they can't flank but can make OAs...

I think it's still an ability of the shaman, iirc. So, they are just hanging out, unless the shaman "activates" them to make an attack.

edg

[Yakk]

Shaman Spirit Compansions are Conjurations. This is a base set of rules.

They also:
A> Occupy a square. (not all conjurations do)
B> Can be targeted by Ranged and Melee powers (you'll note that Close and Burst are not mentioned). (not all conjurations can be targeted)
C> Let the shaman make interrupt attacks on things that move adjacent to them.
D> Are used by shamans as the source of many other shaman power attacks.

Conjurations by default do not flank. Conjurations by default do not provoke OAs. Lacking an exception, this applies to the shaman spirit companion.

[BinarySolo]

Conjurations by default do not provoke OAs. Lacking an exception, this applies to the shaman spirit companion.

Oh? no OA? Are you getting that from the "melee/ranged" line?

[Yakk]

Read the OA rules. Spirit Companions are conjurations. Conjurations are not creatures. Enemies are creatures that are not your ally (and not you). (I'd argue that something that is an ally of your enemies should be considered an enemy as well, but note that your spirit companion is not considered an ally).

Ie, conjurations in general do not qualify as OA targets. Lacking an exception, spirit companions don't provoke OAs.

Note that they also are unable to shift, so their general immunity to OAs is useful to move around a crowded battlefield.

[greenknight]

Read the OA rules. Spirit Companions are conjurations. Conjurations are not creatures. Enemies are creatures that are not your ally (and not you). (I'd argue that something that is an ally of your enemies should be considered an enemy as well, but note that your spirit companion is not considered an ally).

You might be making too much of that. The Spirit Companion can be forced to disappear by a melee basic attack, and I think that ROI they would qualify as an enemy, so I'd say it is subject to AoOs.

Just to add to what you've already written, Spirit Companions have the same defence scores as their creator, and unless the attack specifically targets conjurations, only the attacks damage (not things like ongoing damage, etc) affects the Spirit Companion.

Personally, I find Spirit Companions to be very useful against Minions, and they can considerably reduce a Brutes damage dealing ability, if the Brute's attack can only target one foe.

[Yakk]

You might be making too much of that. The Spirit Companion can be forced to disappear by a melee basic attack, and I think that ROI they would qualify as an enemy, so I'd say it is subject to AoOs.
Conjurations aren't enemies or allies. They are conjurations.

As an example, if an ally is adjacent to and opposite to your enemy, you flank the enemy. But it is pretty clear that the ROI is that your spirit companion doesn't flank -- because it isn't an ally by RAW, and because there are powers that explicitly let it flank.

Now, note that it isn't the powers that let your spirit companion count as a flanker that implies it cannot flank -- it is the fact that your spirit companion is a mere conjuration. By default, it flanks as much as a mage hand flanks.

If it could be an ally, it would automatically qualify as a flanking partner, because it can take opportunity attacks by default.

And in particular:

“Enemy” or “enemies” means a creature or creatures that aren’t
your allies (whether those creatures are hostile toward you or not).
Conjurations are _not_ creatures, so by default do not qualify as "enemies".

This is also why by default they cannot be targetted by any effect -- the spirit companion allows them to be targeted by melee and ranged attacks (but doesn't mention burst or blast effects, so (unless it targets conjurations) they do not target the spirit companion).

You get opportunity actions when an enemy makes a ranged attack or leaves a square adjacent to you. An enemy is a creature that is not your ally. Conjurations are not creatures. Conjurations are not your enemy -- they are mere conjurations of your enemy.

For RAI support, note that by RAW your spirit companion cannot shift -- it can only move. Meanwhile, summoned creatures (which are creatures, and hence enemies to your enemies) can shift.

Spirit companions are not 'really creatures' -- they are ghostly apparitions that block movement, can attack if you try to walk right by it without being careful, and can be used as the source of a shaman's attacks. When they move, they flit from place to place -- they don't leave themselves "open", because they never where really there.