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vampire2948
2009-08-10, 08:39 AM
Hello,

I'm planning to play in a campaign that will hopefully last from level 3 to low epic levels in a couple of months time, and am trying to work out what I'd like to play.

So far i've written the following characters:
Straight Healer (Miniatures handbook), Straight Artificer and Straight Ranger (Archery style).

However - Due to other players deciding they'd like to fill those slots of the party after i'd written the sheets and declared what I was playing... I keep having to change character.

Present party setup:

Archivist [Planning to do the healing and such]
Artificer [Planning to be ranged and a little melee, also, constructs]
Duskblade [Mostly melee, but with a spell or two for ranged purposes]
Unknown [They've not picked yet. Likely a skill monkey.]
Unknown [They've not picked yet. Likely a blaster type warlock/arcanist]
Myself


So yeah, six people.

Since one of the two unknowns is likely to take the arcanist spot (and i'm a little tired of that spot anyway) I don't think i'll play an arcane caster.

Ideas for what I might play:
Sohei (Oriental Adventures. Kinda like a monk/ranger, with a few divine spells)
Fighter 3
Dread Necromancer 3 (Heroes of Horror)
Dragon Shaman 3 (Mostly for the auras, but the breath weapon is pretty cool too. Metabreath feats ftw.)
Marshal 3 (I'd hire a few NPCs, possibly a dip into bard to further buff things. Probably some of those teamwork feats also.)

Anyone have any other ideas for something that'd fit well with the party outlined above? I'm lacking in decision making-ness today, so any random shouts of '<Class Name> ftw!' would potentially be appreciated, assuming it does not conflict with my above comments.

Please de-cheese any suggestions to a moderate level. The DM for the next campaign is fairly new to things, and wouldn't appreciate anything too ridiculously complex and powerful. And I want to focus more on the RP side of things than anything else.

As for my backstory - I'll be playing a character who's motivation is to defend the secret of the location of a portal that leads to heaven. We're using a homebrewed pantheon of Gods, mine is the God that guards the path to heaven through that portal. And his followers all try to keep the location a secret, and defend it should someone learn of the secret.
So the idea is to play an oriental human, who's motivation comes from the task of defending the portal being handed down from generation to generation, along with the family katana.
Or, if I were playing something like, say, a warlock, i'd have come across the secret in some forgotten text.

Thanks for your time,

Vampire2948,

Myshlaevsky
2009-08-10, 08:44 AM
Is Tome of Battle in? Sounds like a Swordsage would fit right in here.

kamikasei
2009-08-10, 08:46 AM
However - Due to other players deciding they'd like to fill those slots of the party after i'd written the sheets and declared what I was playing... I keep having to change character.

Uhm... dibs? If you've said what you want to play (and have completed a sheet for it), how come the other players are getting to disregard that?

(My point being, are you actually going to be able to play whatever you put together here?)

vampire2948
2009-08-10, 08:51 AM
Uhm... dibs? If you've said what you want to play (and have completed a sheet for it), how come the other players are getting to disregard that?

(My point being, are you actually going to be able to play whatever you put together here?)

Mmm, well, dibs indeed. Perhaps i'm far too nice. Regardless, they're not going to change what they want to play just 'cause someone else is already playing it. And I want us to be able to survive this thing. They disregard it because they feel like it. I guess.

Anyway - I've put my uncertain and certain knowledge of what they are playing above. So, please help me to decide something that'll fit with that.


Swordsage is a possibility. I'll need to go read the Tome of Battle, i've not used that before. Thank you. Aulthough they'll likely approach that book in a similar way to that which they approached the Psionics handbook.. the DM of my previous campaign seemed to dislike learning new 'magic' systems. Though The Book of Nine Swords isn't exactly magic.

Any other ideas?

Kaihaku
2009-08-10, 08:59 AM
Well...if they keep on stealing your role why not aim for a Chameleon? It's versatile and flexible. Instead of the standard Rogue you could start with Dragonfire Adept(Silver) which I think lets one meet all the requirements or by multiclassing. There's something fun about being able to adapt one's role in a party on the fly as necessary.

vampire2948
2009-08-10, 09:00 AM
Chameleon, 'eh? Good idea. *rushes to find my copy of Dragon Magic to look up the Dragonfire Adept class* Thanks!

kamikasei
2009-08-10, 09:10 AM
You're third level at the moment? It'll be a while before you can play a Chameleon (it's a PrC). You might consider a Factotum (from Dungeonscape), or a Binder (from Tome of Magic).

Factotums get a variety of class abilities that let them "improvise" and spend a per-encounter pool of points to let them do various things including casting and healing, as necessary. They're skillmonkeys who can pull specific, varied tricks out when in a pinch. They don't require any new system, their abilities are all either right their in their class or else mimicry of abilities/spells in core.

Binders make pacts with the remnants of powerful beings and gain access to a certain set of abilities for each vestige they have bound in a day. The list of vestiges isn't that long, at your level you'll only have one bound at a time, and it'll only grant a handful of abilities, so it should be easy enough for your DM to keep track of, but you can swap them out each day according to what the party needs. Plus, they're cool.

I would advise against Tome of Battle if neither you or the DM are unfamiliar with it. Too much chance for one or both of you to make a mistake and the book to get banned as OP over a misunderstanding. You should definitely check it out and bear it in mind for future games, though.

vampire2948
2009-08-10, 09:13 AM
Factotums get a variety of class abilities that let them "improvise" and spend a per-encounter pool of points to let them do various things including casting and healing, as necessary. They're skillmonkeys who can pull specific, varied tricks out when in a pinch. They don't require any new system, their abilities are all either right their in their class or else mimicry of abilities/spells in core.

Yes, I was thinking of looking at Factotum once i'd finished reading Chameleon. Perhaps going Factotum, and then taking levels in Chameleon would work well?



Binders make pacts with the remnants of powerful beings and gain access to a certain set of abilities for each vestige they have bound in a day. The list of vestiges isn't that long, at your level you'll only have one bound at a time, and it'll only grant a handful of abilities, so it should be easy enough for your DM to keep track of, but you can swap them out each day according to what the party needs. Plus, they're cool.

Mm, we've had quite a lot of binders, I don't really want to play one for that reason. Nice idea, though, thank you.

Yora
2009-08-10, 09:15 AM
That party doesn't actually NEED anything. So whatever you do, someone else will do something different. To make it more interesting, take something that is allready taken, but do it in a different way.
For example the only melee character so far is a duskblade. You could complement that with a barbarian for example. Or you have an Archevist as a healer, so why not take a cleric, that can also heal, but do it from the front line.

Or just go with whatever you wanted to in the beginning. It's not like the party is lacking anything important and there will always be two or three people who could take a task.

Lysander
2009-08-10, 09:20 AM
Seems like your party is pretty good when it comes to healing and fighting. What about playing someone for diplomacy and mind control like a Beguiler, or a Sorceror specializing in enchantments and illusions?

vampire2948
2009-08-10, 09:22 AM
Seems like your party is pretty good when it comes to healing and fighting. What about playing someone for diplomacy and mind control like a Beguiler, or a Sorceror specializing in enchantments and illusions?

Attempts by me in the past to play that kind of character have not gone well.
Seems the other players prefer dealing with things in a way that doesn't involve just one of us talking, or ending fights with a few charm spells or illusions.

Epinephrine
2009-08-10, 09:34 AM
Bard and/or Marshal can be amazing. It's surprising how much damage one deals in this role, even without lifting a finger oneself.

Dragon Shaman has some great style, and the breath attack allows you to feel like you are indeed part of the action. Depending on the

Binder has some lovely flexibility and can still take part very directly in combat, while branching out to fill other roles as needed.

Lysander
2009-08-10, 09:38 AM
Attempts by me in the past to play that kind of character have not gone well.
Seems the other players prefer dealing with things in a way that doesn't involve just one of us talking, or ending fights with a few charm spells or illusions.

Maybe one that doesn't use illusions to avoid fights but to win them. For example focusing on spells like Displacement and Mirror Image rather than invisibly sneaking past foes.

Kaiyanwang
2009-08-10, 09:48 AM
Two things: unless for tastes, I generally suggest Dragon Shaman against Marshal, IMHO the former class is more well-rounded.

If you are interested in sohei, remember that has been updated (and boosted) in one issue of Dragon Magazine (#318) , just in case you need it for the present game, a future game or so.

vampire2948
2009-08-10, 09:49 AM
If you are interested in sohei, remember that has been updated (and boosted) in one issue of Dragon Magazine (#318) , just in case you need it for the present game, a future game or so.

Really? Hmm, must have missed that when I read that issue. I shall go find it, thank you.

Yora
2009-08-10, 10:06 AM
It's nothing spectacular. Mostly an errata file.

AstralFire
2009-08-10, 10:42 AM
IIRC they get rage progression like a Barbarian now instead of being stuck with lameo rage forever.

vampire2948
2009-08-10, 10:46 AM
IIRC they get rage progression like a Barbarian now instead of being stuck with lameo rage forever.

That's correct.

I think i'll go with Factotum, since they look pretty good. And I rolled rather excellent stats for the character [and with an internet roller this time, so I can prove things, huzzah! My group usually complains if I end up with more than one attribute over 16 :smallsigh: though I am honest about it. Yay for 4 16's, a 17 and a 14.]

Also - Can someone clear something up for me?

With the Factotum's Brain over Brawn ability, does that replace, or improve the overall modifier on str and dex checks? The text seems to say it improves it.. but that seems a little odd, since then i'll have a +6 modifier on all str and dex related things.

Does this apply to rolls to hit? Since they are based off of Str and Dex depending on the weapon?

EDIT #1 : Nevermind - The internet is the source of all knowledge.

EDIT #2 : I've picked Factotum, and written my character sheet. Which can be found here (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=28667) if anyone wishes to read it.

Thanks everyone for your help. This class looks fairly awesome.

sofawall
2009-08-10, 01:49 PM
Factotums can add int to initiative, remember. It's a dex check :D

EDIT: Woah, there. How is your str and dex so high? I don't think brains over brawn quite does that.

EDIT 2: Specifically, the attack and damage rolls.

vampire2948
2009-08-10, 01:51 PM
It's a dex check :D


Brains over Brawn (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain your Intelligence bonus as a modifier on Strength checks, Dexterity checks...

I fail to see why? You said it'd a Dex check - And the Extraordinary ability specifically states that it applies to Dex checks.

sofawall
2009-08-10, 01:53 PM
First, note my edit.

Second, I said can, not can't. Silly you :P

vampire2948
2009-08-10, 01:54 PM
First, note my edit.

Second, I said can, not can't. Silly you :P

But but but ... You wrote can't the first time :smallconfused: tricksy person :smalltongue:

My Str and Dex aren't that high. I just did that so the sheet'll automatically update everything else e.g. skills and such with the correct modifier.
It doesn't like it when the modifier doesn't match the skill.

My Str and Dex are still 14 and 16 respectively for the purposes of ability drain and the like.

EDIT : Aaah, edit ninja!

vampire2948
2009-08-11, 10:08 AM
*casts Raise Thread* meh, t'was only on the second page.

I've ended up playing a Marshal for this campaign, and i'm sticking with it. Mostly 'cause of this picture of my character that has been drawn.


http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff186/vampire2948/AortalMarshal.png


Anyway - Marshal seems a little weak to me, and I can't seem to find any variants other than the Adrenaline Boost Variant, which I do not prefer.

Anyone got any ideas about what I should do to the character as I level up? A dip here, a dip there, perhaps? Minor Auras are based off of Cha bonus, so I can improve that regardless of what I multiclass into.


The DM of the campaign I will be playing in has allowed me to stat up two NPCs as bodyguard type people for myself. I've written them as swordsages.

Anyway, assuming that the DM does not allow me to use leadership to get an amount of low-ish level mooks to extend my aura to, what should I do to the class?

Also - Are there any commander type feats, other than the ones that appear in issue 323 of the Dragon Magazine?

Thank you for your time,

Kaiyanwang
2009-08-11, 11:19 AM
Seems very strange by my part suggest ToB, But why not play a Marshal / White Raven warblade to fit the concept?

Is ToB allowed?

vampire2948
2009-08-11, 11:22 AM
Seems very strange by my part suggest ToB, But why not play a Marshal / White Raven warblade to fit the concept?

Is ToB allowed?

The DM is a bit 'meh' towards ToB, seems to prefer that no one use it.

I've been looking through various variant classes, I might take Commander [Fighter Variant], or possibly Martial Monk for a level or two to gain bonus feats and allow me to be a little bit more decent in combat than I would be as a pure marshal.

Though I might leave those till i've got to level 10, then start multiclassing..

Meh, i'm writing out the sheets now, to see what they look like.

Kaiyanwang
2009-08-11, 11:27 AM
Well, you could add fear based feats, I think they are in character and add battlefield control, if the campaign makes it viable.

Maybe some multiclass Zentharim Soldier variant Fighter (with the Never Outnumbered + DoTU feat combo) / Marshal.

Fighter to ZS, Gather up fear based feats, Marshal 4, and at high level, maybe your DM allow you the Warblade.

Just an Idea, of course, if your campaing is full, say, of undead..

vampire2948
2009-08-11, 11:28 AM
Well, you could add fear based feats, I think they are in character and add battlefield control, if the campaign makes it viable.

Maybe some multiclass Zentharim Soldier variant Fighter (with the Never Outnumbered + DoTU feat combo) / Marshal.

Fighter to ZS, Gather up fear based feats, Marshal 4, and at high level, maybe your DM allow you the Warblade.

Just an Idea, of course, if your campaing is full, say, of undead..

I don't believe the campaign is headed towards the undead side of things. It'll likely mostly involve traveling (and therefore cliched bandits) and diplomacy. Both of which my character should be fairly good at dealing with as a Marshal, with a fighter feat or two.

Fear is interesting. I'll look into that.

Kaiyanwang
2009-08-11, 11:38 AM
I don't believe the campaign is headed towards the undead side of things. It'll likely mostly involve traveling (and therefore cliched bandits) and diplomacy. Both of which my character should be fairly good at dealing with as a Marshal, with a fighter feat or two.

Fear is interesting. I'll look into that.

Fine. Remember that both warblade and ZS fighter have diplomacy as class skill.

Could be interestin find feats to impove your effectiveness.. talking about the kind of character, I find good (but I don't know if viable) something like:

High int ----> combat expertise chain

Polearm (I see good polearms for a marshal) ---> CReflexes

Nothing optimal and maybe you risk MAD; just aesthetics.

vampire2948
2009-08-11, 11:41 AM
Fine. Remember that both warblade and ZS fighter have diplomacy as class skill.

Could be interestin find feats to impove your effectiveness.. talking about the kind of character, I find good (but I don't know if viable) something like:

High int ----> combat expertise chain

Polearm (I see good polearms for a marshal) ---> CReflexes

Nothing optimal and maybe you risk MAD; just aesthetics.

I'm taking some of the Commander feats from Dragon #323. Which basically give morale bonuses as an aura to 30' around me. They supplement my existing auras quite well.
My character is using a Katana, which is quite a big backstory item. I'm taking Weapon Focus in that, and will likely take more feats to improve its effectiveness soon (especially if I am denied Leadership).

Does anyone know if there are any 'fixed' leadership variants? Altered to remove whatever reason people find leadership so overpowered.
Personally I think it is quite balanced, so long as the DM boosts encounters, and can be quite a good plot point. e.g. laying siege to castles, large scale attacks on various places...


EDIT -- I think i'll go with pure marshal. I wrote it out with 2 fighter levels, and not much changes besides a couple of extra feats. I think i'd prefer more auras.

Kaiyanwang
2009-08-11, 11:51 AM
In Oriental Adventures ther is a PrC class based on Katana (iaijutsu master) but I doubt is viable if you not start as Samurai (put down flame throwers, people, I mean the OAdv one).

Exotic Weapon Master in CW has stunt with exotic weapons.

Said this, if you use the katana 2H, you can simply go with charge feats based on power attack (leap attac, shock trooper, combat brute etc) and be a commander that leads from the frontline, we can say the "face" of the party both in peace and in war. Not so original, but maybe is for your tastes.

About leadership - well, IMHO is not inherently broken. Can save or destroy a campaign only basing on the campaing itself (number of PC, the DM want them have a castle or want they wander, and so on).

IMHO, of course.


EDIT: I'm pretty sure that people more knowledgeable than me will sho some combo good with katanas. If not, take feats that make your blows "interesting" regarless the weapon used (charge feats, knockdown, staggering critical.. depends from the power level of the campaing I guess, barring the fact that can be proper or not for the PC).