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jmbrown
2009-08-10, 02:39 PM
War!

This is a guide detailing the creation of armies for the purpose of full scale battles. It's designed for the Dungeons and Dragons 4E system and uses the normal rules for combat except where differences are applied. Additionally, this guide suggests that armies are made up of humanoid creatures. Monstrous armies are possible but not yet supported.

Creating an Army

An army consists of one or more units. Units are comprised of one hundred or more soldiers fighting in formation. To create a unit, follow these steps:

Step 1 - Troop Level: A unit's "level" determines the overall experience of each individual troop. Each unit is considered a medium creature and it's made up of many troops. A unit has no minimum or maximum number of troops. In general terms, higher level units have fewer overall troops than lower level units. The maximum number of troops in any one unit is 250 (each troop taking a 5x5 square) but this number has no effect on game mechanics and is for flavor purposes only.

Step 2 - Determine Type: The unit's type determines how it acts in battle.

Artillery: Ranged attackers that focus on accuracy and damage. Artillery is commonly trebuchets, catapults, and ballistas.

Brute: Brutes are slow moving units that soak up damage and draw attention away from other units. Heavy calvary are examples of brutes.

Controller: Controllers deal little damage but dominate the battlefield through ranged attacks and superior movement. Archers are an example of controllers.

Lurker: Lurkers are fast and deal good damage every so often. They're used for ambushes and hit-and-run tactics. Light calvary are typically lurkers.

Minion: Minions are conscripts; simple commoners fighting with clubs, pitchforks, spades, and any assortment of improvised weapon.

Skirmisher: Skirmishers use speed and terrain to defeat slower troops and half faster troops. Spearmen and lightly armored soldiers are good skirmishers.

Soldier: Soldiers are the toughest to hit and hit more often making them the back bone of a good army. Heavily armored swordsmen make good soldiers.

Step 3 - Determining Attributes: Calculate a units stats as per the rules in the DMG. A unit can be an elite but never a solo. For every two units in an army, one unit of the same type may be designated as a leader. Leaders gain additional powers.

Step 4 - Choose Powers: Units are given one basic attack (either ranged or melee) and one power. Every five levels a unit may select an additional power.

Army Powers

Each unit begins with one basic melee, one basic ranged power, one encounter power, and one utility power. Every five levels a unit may select a new encounter power or utility power. Use the attributes based on level and type to determine damage and attack bonuses.

Some powers have restrictions and are noted in the description.

Basic Powers

One-handed Simple Weapon (dagger, shortspear, club, etc.)- Basic Melee (Standard); Attack vs. AC; at-will light damage; no restrictions.

One-handed Military Weapon (long sword, flail, warhammer, etc.)- Basic Melee (Standard); Attack vs. AC; at-will medium damage; restricted to brute, skirmisher, and soldier types.

Two-handed Military Weapon (greatsword, polearms, etc.) - Basic Melee (Standard); Attack vs. AC; at-will heavy damage; restricted to brute and soldier types.

Simple Ranged Weapon (javelin, throwing knife, sling, crossbow, etc.)- Basic Ranged (Standard); Range 1; Attack vs. AC; at-will light damage; no restrictions.

Military Ranged Weapon (heavy crossbow, bow and arrow)- Basic Ranged (Standard); Range 1/3; Attack vs. AC; at-will medium damage; restricted to skirmisher, artillery and controller types.

Heavy Ranged Weapon (catapult shot, ballista bolt, composite longbow, etc.)- Basic Ranged (Standard); Range 2/6; Attack vs. AC; at-will heavy damage; restricted to artillery and controller types.

Utility Powers

Indirect Attack- free action; Make a basic ranged attack against a target you don't have line of sight to at a -8 penalty. Each basic ranged attack gives you a +2 bonus to hit the same target. This bonus is lost if you change targets or the target moves.

More to come!

Combat

In war scale combat, each square represents 50' of space and each round represents 1 minute of time. Thus, a unit with speed 6 traverses 300' a round per minute of movement on the normal battle scale (approximately 18 minutes a mile).

*There is no reach. Spearmen must be adjacent to a unit to attack.

*No unit may shift. All movement is a normal movement action which may provoke an opportunity attack.

*All other rules including but not limited to charge, push, pull, slide, trip, and grab work normally.

Disperse
A unit reduced to zero hit points is dispersed. The unit makes a saving throw every round as normal. On a critical success the unit pulls together; its hit points return to zero and it heals a number of hit points as if it spent a healing surge (1/4 max hit points). On three successive failures, the unit is routed and permanently removed from. If the unit takes damage equal to its bloodied value the unit is completely destroyed (all members are dead).

Terrain

Terrain plays an important role in combat. Each type of terrain may carry a movement penalty, grant cover or concealment, or provide other bonuses.

Plains: Plains include steppes, flat farmlands, and most deserts. No movement penalty, cover, or concealment.

Roads: Includes simple dirt roads and paved roads. Roads have no movement penalty, cover, or concealment. Roads increase a unit's speed by 1.

Light Forest: Light forests have a 2 square movement penalty. Light forests provide cover. Light forests do not provide concealment.

Dense Forest: Dense forests have a 3 square movement penalty. Dense forests provide cover. Dense forests provide concealment and block line of sight.

Hills: Hills have a 2 square movement penalty. Hills do not provide cover. Hills do not provide concealment but block line of sight. Units fighting in hills gain a +2 bonus to perception checks, +2 bonus to ranged attacks and all range increments increase by 5.

Mountain: Mountains have a 4 square movement penalty. Mountains provide cover. Mountains provide concealment and block line of sight. Units fighting in the mountains gain a +4 bonus to perception checks, +4 bonus to ranged attacks, and all range increments increase by 10.

Town: A town is any square with moderate buildings. Towns provide cover and provide concealment but do not block line of sight. Units fighting in town gain a +2 bonus to AC.

Urban: Urban areas are dense clusters of buildings. Urban tiles provide cover, concealment, and block line of sight. Units fighting in an urban area gain a +4 bonus to AC.

Sample Units

Coming soon!

Daracaex
2009-08-10, 03:49 PM
This is pretty cool. I do have some questions/concerns, though.

1. It's kind of strange that creature size doesn't have an effect on how much space they take up on the map. As is, a lv 1 unit consists of ten creatures (likely medium, as you have stated this does not yet support monstrous races) occupying a 50' square foot space. But a lv 5 unit has 50 of the same kind of creatures occupying the same 50' square space. Also, do units with ballistae or other siege weapons have that many siege weapons or some number with that number of troops manning them.

This leads me to question whether how many individuals there are in a unit even matter. Why not just leave the exact number undefined and focus on mechanics that do matter?

2. You contradict yourself when you say a unit has 100 or more soldiers and then turn around and say that the smallest, minion unit can have as low as 3.

3. Are you going to consider rules for strong individuals, like regular player characters? Will they each lead their own unit, form themselves as a unit, or what?

4. What about special units, like small units with the most powerful soldiers that can be higher level, yet still easily challenge the much larger units? Or units that are made up of rolling towers or have ladders to scale ramparts? These all will need some unique rules to work.

5. Can I help? :smallbiggrin:

jmbrown
2009-08-10, 04:08 PM
This is pretty cool. I do have some questions/concerns, though.

1. It's kind of strange that creature size doesn't have an effect on how much space they take up on the map. As is, a lv 1 unit consists of ten creatures (likely medium, as you have stated this does not yet support monstrous races) occupying a 50' square foot space. But a lv 5 unit has 50 of the same kind of creatures occupying the same 50' square space. Also, do units with ballistae or other siege weapons have that many siege weapons or some number with that number of troops manning them.

This leads me to question whether how many individuals there are in a unit even matter. Why not just leave the exact number undefined and focus on mechanics that do matter?

The idea is that 100 people (or a level 1 unit) doesn't take up an entire 50x50 square while a 500 people (or a level 5 unit) takes up the entire square before moving on to the next size.

I'll be removing the troop number feature as it's entirely unnecessary and has no actual effect in combat. I'll probably stick a note saying "The average size of a unit is equal to the encounter level x100."


2. You contradict yourself when you say a unit has 100 or more soldiers and then turn around and say that the smallest, minion unit can have as low as 3.

Having a level 10 minion unit would mean having 1,000 peasants... that die in a single hit. I changed it to x3 to reflect that minions are 1/4 of a monster its level thus a conscript unit is made up of roughly a quarter the standard units.

Again, I'm removing the troop numbers as it's not important.


3. Are you going to consider rules for strong individuals, like regular player characters? Will they each lead their own unit, form themselves as a unit, or what?

Haven't thought about it yet. In conventional war, size matters. Even epic level characters can be taken down by 10,000 angry guys with pitch forks simply by the law that there's a 5% chance per person of scoring a critical hit.

Player characters will likely instantly make a unit "elite" or a "leader."


4. What about special units, like small units with the most powerful soldiers that can be higher level, yet still easily challenge the much larger units? Or units that are made up of rolling towers or have ladders to scale ramparts? These all will need some unique rules to work.

Again, size plays a huge role in war so those guys would probably be elites. Once I get the basic rules down I'll toss in equipment like siege towers and ladders that units can purchase.

5. Can I help? :smallbiggrin:[/QUOTE]

Sure.

Things I'm doing right now/in the future:

1- Removing troop numbers.
2- All units regardless of level are medium. Units can form into larger armies of the same type to share powers and combine hit points.
3- Finish the terrain section
4- Change power selection. All units will begin with both a basic melee and basic ranged. It makes no sense that archers are only armed with bows. They'll be restricted to weaker melee attack (likely a dagger or shortspear) but they can still fight in melee if they need too.

Limos
2009-08-10, 04:27 PM
Personally I would handle a large scale battle as an elaborate skill challenge.

Key skills for it would be Athletics, Bluff, Endurance, Insight, Intimidate and Perception.

Athletics would be used to make Aggressive actions, charging maybe.

Bluff and Intimidate would be more Tactical actions that would set you would only be able to use once in the battle.

Endurance would be for Defensive actions, hold the line against an assault.

Insight and Perception would probably also be more tactical, but they would have multiple uses.

Then you have to get 10 successes before 10 failures.



Then I would have set up an encounter of the General and his Lieutenants. Depending on how well you do in the skill challenge you are in a better position against the General.

Say you get 10 successes and 0 failure, then maybe the General starts off Bloodied and half his Lieutenants are missing.

If you get 10 successes and 4 failures then maybe he is down a quarter and has his full complement of Lieutenants.

If you get 10 successes and 8 failures then he is at full, has his lieutenants and a smattering of weaker minions.

If you fail then he and all his minions are there, and the PCs are the ones starting off down a quarter health.

Once you defeat the general the enemy armies morale breaks and they scatter or get cut down by your own army. That way you don't have to deal with gargantuan sized enemies using Swarm mechanics.

AgentPaper
2009-08-10, 04:56 PM
I like this. Minor nitpick, though: a 50' x 50' square is 10 squares by 10 squares, so 100 medium creatures would take up 1 50' x 50' square, not 250. A group of large-sized creatures would be made up of 25 total creatures, since each one takes up twice as much space. Huge creatures would allow about 10 in a single 50' x 50' square. Even larger creatures should probably be used as single, special units that take up a square on their own.

Also, I'd say that archers are more likely to be in the artillery role, along with normal artillery, while controllers would more likely be groups of mages, using large-scale magic to sculpt the field of battle and rain death.

Also, in the interests of making this a cool addition to campaigns, with players, I'd suggest working on some kind of "leadership" power system. Basically, each unit of 100 or so soldiers can have a leader, who can have various powers that enhance the ability of the troop as a whole. For example a Fighter PC might lead a group of heavy infantry, giving them an AC bonus and allow them to stop movement with their opportunity attacks. Or a group of skirmishers might be led by a ranger, giving them increased movement speed and allowing them to move away from some approaching spearmen.


And Limos, that system works just fine if the battle itself isn't so much important as the outcome, but if the players want to play through the battle and take a more direct hand in it (and probably not all of them do) then a more detailed system might be worth it.

Yakk
2009-08-10, 05:03 PM
An alternative approach...

L-4: Elite
L+0: Normal
L+5: Minion
L+8, or L+4 elite: 2x2 Squad of 15-20 units.
L+11, or L+7 elite: 3x3 Troop of ~30-40 units.
L+14, or L+10 elite: 4x4 Company of ~75 units
L+17, or L+13 elite: 6x6 Army of ~150 units.

The above areas are not the sole area the swarm takes up.

Squads and Troops have Aura 1 for melee.
Companies have Aura 2.
Armies have Aura 3.

This aura is "make a basic attack against anyone who starts their turn in the aura". The true extent of the force goes out to the edge of the aura, and a bit beyond (but it gives away under pressure).

These represent closer the real edge of the force. To do serious damage to the force, you need to charge right in however.

All of the above are Swarms. Use the type of the base monster you are modifying (or make one up for minions if you use those).

Grant Troop and up the following:
Engulf:
Shift 1 square, possibly into squares that contain opponents. You gain combat advantage against any opponent whose square you overlap with.

Remember to reduce melee damage to take into account the 'free double attack' the swarm gets via the aura mechanic.

Armies consisting of small creatures should have their level boosted by 2, and their boosted by 50% to 100%.

Note that an army of mid-heroic monsters is a high-paragon opponent, and low-heroic vary from low-paragon to mid-paragon.

So a war between ~1000 orcs (base monster level 6) and ~1000 humans (base monster level 3) would be a war between 7 armies on each side.

The Orc Armies would be level 19 Elites, and the Human Armies level 20 Normals.

We might split the Orc Army up a bit. Say 5 level 19 Elites and (600 orcs), and the other 400 in the form of 80-Orc troops (5 level 20 Troops).

So we have 5 level 19 Elite 6x6 Armies, 5 level 20 Troops vs 7 level 20 6x6 Armies.

This would be a level 22 encounter for PCs on the side of the humans. Toss level 19 PCs at it, and watch them save the day for the 1000 humans on their side.

Mix in some non-army troops and do a few such encounters, and you can get the feel of PCs single-handedly turning the tide of a massive orc invasion. Ideally these PCs would have fought the orcs at lower levels, and are now only challenged by entire armies of orcs.

(I'd give each PC control over an army as well as their PC to keep it from being a DM-roll-fest).

Note that the numbers in this post are an attempt to compromise between matching XP budgets, and allowing pre-epic characters to face down armies of mid-heroic enemies and win.

Modifying this for large sized creatures...

A squad of large sized creatures would be 4x4 and have aura 2 and reach 2, and contain 15-20 creatures, at L+8.

A troop of large sized creatures would be 6x6 and have aura 3 and reach 2, and contain 30-40 creatures, at L+11.

Another interesting mechanic would be having armies "shatter" when bloodied. Two smaller forces would spawn, each with half the max HP, and a weaker attack mechanism.