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sofawall
2009-08-10, 03:00 PM
I recently started playing an Incarnate, and the first time I ever saw the book was while I was making my character, so I'm sure I've missed some stuff.

I was wondering what ways are there to get more essentia? The level 20 ability of the Incarnate is gold, but 20th level. I'm an Incarnate, and they get the most essentia, but I'm still grabbing every incarnum feat to get more essentia. Bonus Essentia has been grabbed, and because of no "Special:" entry, I can only get it once. Another player is playing a Totemist, and has lent me an essentia through the ring, but I'm still grasping for more.

What ways are there? Level is irrelevant.

Also, would it be an acceptable houserule to allow Bonus Essentia to be grabbed more than once?

Blackfang108
2009-08-10, 03:11 PM
Also, would it be an acceptable houserule to allow Bonus Essentia to be grabbed more than once?

There are essentia stones, but they are emergency use only, as they only last for 1 round. (400g)

You can take the Incarnum feats(Azure X, Cobolt Y, etc.), but as they still require essentia to be useful, you're essentially taking feats that you won't use.

Necrocarnate has a potential for Infinite Essentia, but it's an (Evil) class.

Azurin/Duskling will give you 1 more, but you're probably past that.

Mostly, you're stuck. This isn't as bas as it sounds. What's your normal soulmeld setup? we'll try to supply some pointers regarding allocation.

EDIT: i don't see it as being massively overpowering to allow BE to be taken multiple times, but... something just tells me there's a reason you can't...

Fax Celestis
2009-08-10, 03:12 PM
You can, uh...well, there's a number of items in the MIC that have temporary essentia in them (the essentia helm immediately springs to mind).

Blackfang108
2009-08-10, 03:13 PM
You can, uh...well, there's a number of items in the MIC that have temporary essentia in them (the essentia helm immediately springs to mind).

Most of those (IIRC) are pulled straight from MoI, so he sould have access to those (assuming he has the GP, of course). but, yeah, check the MIC.

JeenLeen
2009-08-10, 03:19 PM
I believe there are also some spells that grant a temporary increase to one's essentia pool. If you have a cleric or wizard ally... They might need the feat that unlocks the Incarnum-type spells, though.

If you are in an Incarum-heavy campaign, at least one item lets you try to steal Incarnum from an enemy or gain it from an ally. I think it's a ring.


For those feats that give 1 essentia, you could take them and not use them for their feat. For example, the Dodge-like feat (Azure Dodge?) counts as 'Dodge' for any purposes of prerequisites. So you can take the feat to give you 1 essentia and meet a prereq, but you never invest essentia into it.

Sorry if the above is somewhat incoherent. I'm rather tired at the moment and my thoughts aren't flowing well.

sofawall
2009-08-10, 03:28 PM
Thanks for the quick answers!

Yeah, I've seen all that stuff (except the MiC, gonna check that now). The main problem is I just found the ring and cloak that mirror Cloak of Resistance and Ring of Deflection. It's probably better to just spend the cash and not invest essentia, but for the moment I'm a bit strapped for cash. I have enough essentia for my soulmelds (switching essentia as a swift action is awesome :D)

Spells and stealing are unlikely to work, as this is the very first time the book has actually been used in my group, and that includes the DM. We don't even have an arcanist, but UMDing a scroll might do something? I'll look into it.

The lack of support for Incarnum, much like ToM and ToB are what really hurt it. It's a great system, from what I can see.

EDIT: Oh, and the feats that give one essentia, I don't have anything in those, I just took them for the essentia. I basically took almost useless feats, which is why I was wondering about the feat that gives two essentia.

Sinfire Titan
2009-08-10, 03:28 PM
You are right about the limit on Essentia, Blackfang. A basic Incarnate can get an Essentia capacity of 8 on any soulmeld he has currently shaped, and 6 for the ones he doesn't invest in.

There's an archived thread called Incarnate By The Numbers that gets referenced often, even though I didn't mention it in my handbook. That thread points out just how high an Incarnate can get his bonuses through judicious use of Soulmelds, feats, and class features. Built properly, an Incarnate can be a mini-Jack of All Trades. The limit on Essentia is countered by the fact that you can relocate any and all Essentia as a Swift action.

In short, you don't need that much. About 28 points is enough to get you through the day, you just need to know which soulmelds to focus on for each task. What people don't realize is that the Incarnate is capable of shifting his offense and defense around at will with 3-4 points, and that some soulmelds offer better options than AC or attack bonuses (the Apparition Ribbon, for example, provides an easy-access Displacement spell against any enemy without Ghost Touch weapons and allows you to attack through Touch AC if you have a Ghost Touch weapon on hand). You just need to get strategic when using your soulmelds and chakra binds.


That said, I know how you feel. The best I can do is point out that Wands of Soul Boon set to CL 20th provide 5 essentia for 20 rounds as a Swift action. The Mage's Spectacles soulmeld makes UMD your best toy, and allows you to pass yourself off as a mini-Artificer. A Wand Bracer or a Wand Chamber (Dungeonscape) can be used to make carrying the wands easier on you.

sofawall
2009-08-10, 03:30 PM
Ah, that spell looks handy. I may take a wand or two of that, and I already found all the skill boosting Soulmelds :D

Sinfire Titan
2009-08-10, 03:44 PM
Thanks for the quick answers!

Yeah, I've seen all that stuff (except the MiC, gonna check that now). The main problem is I just found the ring and cloak that mirror Cloak of Resistance and Ring of Deflection. It's probably better to just spend the cash and not invest essentia, but for the moment I'm a bit strapped for cash. I have enough essentia for my soulmelds (switching essentia as a swift action is awesome :D)

Spells and stealing are unlikely to work, as this is the very first time the book has actually been used in my group, and that includes the DM. We don't even have an arcanist, but UMDing a scroll might do something? I'll look into it.

The lack of support for Incarnum, much like ToM and ToB are what really hurt it. It's a great system, from what I can see.

EDIT: Oh, and the feats that give one essentia, I don't have anything in those, I just took them for the essentia. I basically took almost useless feats, which is why I was wondering about the feat that gives two essentia.

I'm working on that part. The first is a Meldshaping Martial Adept. The second is a Kamigawa-flavored Summoner that uses Soulmelds to choose what to summon. The third is a ****-ton of Totemist variants ranging from Aberrations to Outsiders to Lycanthropes.

Glimbur
2009-08-10, 04:26 PM
I'm working on that part. The first is a Meldshaping Martial Adept. The second is a Kamigawa-flavored Summoner that uses Soulmelds to choose what to summon. The third is a ****-ton of Totemist variants ranging from Aberrations to Outsiders to Lycanthropes.

I threw together some Totemist soulmelds. Link is in my sig. They are, in general, a little more powerful than those in the book on purpose.

Sinfire Titan
2009-08-10, 04:37 PM
I threw together some Totemist soulmelds. Link is in my sig. They are, in general, a little more powerful than those in the book on purpose.

I read those all ready.

Olo Demonsbane
2009-08-10, 07:54 PM
How exactly does the Apparation ribbon do that? I just read the descripition and am very confused.

sofawall
2009-08-10, 07:56 PM
I don't understand, it seems straight-forward to me. You turn incorporeal... :smallconfused: What more do you need to know?

EDIT: Checked Essentia Helm, looks good. Might buy a few of those and just switch them as needed, Nightstick-style :D

Sinfire Titan
2009-08-10, 10:25 PM
How exactly does the Apparation ribbon do that? I just read the descripition and am very confused.

It gives you the benefits of the Incorporeal Subtype. This is the full benefit of that subtype:


Incorporeal Subtype
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source (except for positive energy, negative energy, force effects such as magic missile, or attacks made with ghost touch weapons). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead, but a hit with holy water has a 50% chance of not affecting an incorporeal creature.

An incorporeal creature has no natural armor bonus but has a deflection bonus equal to its Charisma bonus (always at least +1, even if the creature’s Charisma score does not normally provide a bonus).

An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object’s exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own. It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see farther from the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks. An incorporeal creature cannot pass through a force effect.

An incorporeal creature’s attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it. Incorporeal creatures pass through and operate in water as easily as they do in air. Incorporeal creatures cannot fall or take falling damage. Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled. In fact, they cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment, nor are they subject to such actions. Incorporeal creatures have no weight and do not set off traps that are triggered by weight.

An incorporeal creature moves silently and cannot be heard with Listen checks if it doesn’t wish to be. It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to both its melee attacks and its ranged attacks. Nonvisual senses, such as scent and blindsight, are either ineffective or only partly effective with regard to incorporeal creatures. Incorporeal creatures have an innate sense of direction and can move at full speed even when they cannot see.

The bolded portions are major benefits. The loss of Nat Armor is a pain, but it doesn't matter if you never had that to begin with (and the Cha to AC with a Minimum 1 clause is always helpful). You bypass Nat Armor, Armor, and Shields, so you are effectively using Touch Attacks. And the loss of a Str score is easily ignored if you pump your Dex.


Not exactly powerful until it gets the Throat Chakra though.