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View Full Version : How do the OotS defeat the Snarl? (possible spoilers)


RPGAgmJAY
2009-08-11, 09:40 AM
Most of the speculation I've seen regarding fighting the Snarl is build around the quote from strip 274.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html

"Some have theorized since that gods were even more vulnerable to the Snarl than a mortal of the same level would have been."

The assumption then is that the Gods would need a team of epic level mortals to combat and defeat the Snarl. So we all see the OotS team entering a rift and beating the Snarl down with blade, bow and blasts... right?

If that were a viable option, wouldn't the order of the scribble taken that option rather than just sealing the Snarl up safely? If they weren't powerful enough, are we saying that the OotS group will become more powerful one day? I don't see that happening in 1000 strips. (Though the thought of a single montage strip showing the OotS team on a leveling spree, slaying everything in sight and growing into epic characters themselves would be entertaining to see, but terrible for the overall story... and the Giant's rep)

So how can the Snarl be resolved?

Perhaps we should look back to the origins of the Snarl.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html

"The world took shape but for every arguement a new snag would develop in the fabric of the world. A new Snarl in the threads of reality. And the Gods, blinded by their petty squabbles did not see the Snarl growing every day... Gorwing more complex... growing more intelligent... growing more hateful."

Shojo also states in #274 that, "The Snarl was literally born of deific frustration and hostility."

So then, could it be possible for the Snarl to be unraveled? This would require the gods themselves to forge a peace amongst themselves. A real peace and agreement rather than the order that was given to the creation of the world prison where the gods still did not agree.

To think that the gods would make this work on their own is silly. They would have to be forced into it. But who could possibly have the power to force the gods to change? Their believers of course. Remember #275 showed that mortals actually raised up their own gods in the cases of the elves and the goblins.

If a world wide flower power party isn't you're cup of tea (as it would end 'adventuring' all together): Perhaps this peaceful environment exists on the world within the Snarl (free from interloper diety manipulation) which the OotS visit. Equipped with the truth of possibility, Roy holds the Gods hostage by threatening to break the gates and release the Snarl if they don't make peace.

In the end, the Snarl unravels into microscopic bits that infuse every living creature in the universe. Those bits are called "miticlorians"... and the Order of the Light Sticks is born. (couldn't resist adding this paragraph)

Good Gaming!
-Jay
Optimystik
2009-08-11, 10:00 AM
"Less vulnerable" doesn't mean "more able to defeat." A truck is stronger than I am, but it is also more vulnerable to certain phenomena, such as rust. That doesn't mean either of us would do well dropped into the ocean.

I read Shojo's comment to mean that the Snarl is less likely to lash out at a non-deity standing near it. After all, it is composed of hatred towards gods, not hatred towards mortals.
factotum
2009-08-11, 10:56 AM
I read Shojo's comment to mean that the Snarl is less likely to lash out at a non-deity standing near it. After all, it is composed of hatred towards gods, not hatred towards mortals.

Well, he DID also say "a mortal of the same level"...what is the effective level of a God? More than merely epic, I bet.
Optimystik
2009-08-11, 11:17 AM
Well, he DID also say "a mortal of the same level"...what is the effective level of a God? More than merely epic, I bet.

What separates gods from epic mortals are divine ranks. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm) It's possible that these same ranks are what allow the Snarl to target deities more effectively. A mortal without one, no matter how high his level, would thus be safer from the Snarl if this theory is true.
MReav
2009-08-11, 11:24 AM
Well, he DID also say "a mortal of the same level"...what is the effective level of a God? More than merely epic, I bet.

In 3rd edition, gods had a median average hit dice in the 60s (20 first class, 20 second class, 20 Outsider HD).
Morquard
2009-08-11, 11:28 AM
But as others have said "less vulnerable" does in no way mean "immune" or anything to that.
Also it said "same level". I don't know where I read it and its maybe wrong, but it said that gods are by default at least 50ish. Thats probably not true, or Banjo would be a level 50 handpuppet :)

Anyway, just because the snarl dealt like 1000d20 damage to a god per hit, doesn't mean a mortal survives the 500d12 it hits him with :)

Also who theorised that? I mean seriously, they barely know anything about the snarl, and what they know is probably wrong. V correctly said so in the last comic.

If anyone would have told the gods or Shojo "Hey I think the snarl might actually be nice and build a planet inside his demi-plane" they'd have answered "Don't be silly, its a being of chaos and could never do that".
David Argall
2009-08-11, 03:32 PM
I am currently liking the theory that the party won't fight the Snarl at all, and may even make friends with it. However, the party has a variety of ways to find/create a snarl-destroying weapon.
dps
2009-08-11, 04:10 PM
They don't have to destroy or even defeat the Snarl per se, they just have to keep Team Evil from controlling a Gate and activating The Dark One's plan, then find a way to rebuild the destroyed Gates or otherwise seal the rifts. I'm not even sure that the Snarl can be destroyed.
Optimystik
2009-08-11, 04:17 PM
They don't have to destroy or even defeat the Snarl per se, they just have to keep Team Evil from controlling a Gate and activating The Dark One's plan, then find a way to rebuild the destroyed Gates or otherwise seal the rifts. I'm not even sure that the Snarl can be destroyed.

It needs to be nullified or soothed in some way. As long as it exists, the rifts will continue to form as it scratches at its prison. More importantly, the deific conflict that spawned it hasn't gone away, only been suppressed beneath a thin veneer of compromise.

The OotS deities are the true source of the campaign's woes, from the Snarl to the goblin plight to the scheming of the IFCC, and I'd be surprised if the Snarl was ultimately dealt with without any changes whatsoever to their status quo.
Cerrakoth
2009-08-11, 05:08 PM
The whole building a universe around a 'broken' one or great evil etc was used in 'Anti-heros', no doubt ripped from Oots, but still they point out that all cages have a flaw, which, the gods, in their almighty wisdom should have forseen.
If the Gates are all destroyed, causing the universe to be flawed and thus rebuilt, stinks of the Matrix.
It's gonna come down to the oots not being able to defeat the Snarl, and having to sacrifice someone to make the gates impregnable etc. I don't see how Rich can work the characters into doing that, unless of course, that's the MitD reason for existing or something along thse line...
Bibliomancer
2009-08-11, 05:31 PM
It's gonna come down to the oots not being able to defeat the Snarl, and having to sacrifice someone to make the gates impregnable etc. I don't see how Rich can work the characters into doing that, unless of course, that's the MitD reason for existing or something along thse line...

They don't have to sacrifice themselves willingly. Roy merely needs to tell Belkar that the Snarl called him short. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0022.html)

It's quite possible that the Snarl is benevolent, which seems reasonable, given that the gods seen to be petty and short-sighted and probably responsible for most of creation's woes in the first place, including goblinoids.
Ancalagon
2009-08-12, 01:35 AM
Until something new pops up in the story, I think "fighting the Snarl", let alone "defeating the Snarl" is not even on the agenda anymore.
Optimystik
2009-08-12, 09:37 AM
The whole building a universe around a 'broken' one or great evil etc was used in 'Anti-heros', no doubt ripped from Oots, but still they point out that all cages have a flaw, which, the gods, in their almighty wisdom should have forseen.

"Almighty wisdom?" Which gods are we talking about here? :smallconfused:
Slimslamer
2009-08-12, 10:06 AM
Interesting thought: The snarl is born of Deific Hatred right? Well, one wonders about the ramifications of V's Moral Event Horizon in the realm of the gods, perhaps se inadvertently made the Snarl stronger?
Volkov
2009-08-12, 10:27 AM
They get a friend to cast "Summon Godzilla/Giant Monster." Godzilla/Giant Monster proceeds to wail on the snarl.
Optimystik
2009-08-12, 10:30 AM
They get a friend to cast "Summon Godzilla/Giant Monster." Godzilla/Giant Monster proceeds to wail on the snarl.

"Summon MitD" :smallwink:
i6uuaq
2009-08-12, 08:16 PM
Perhaps this peaceful environment exists on the world within the Snarl (free from interloper diety manipulation) which the OotS visit.

If it's free from interloper diety manipulation, this opens the door for a certain new deity (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0080.html)...



What? The oracle did say Elan would get a happy ending...