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Myou
2009-08-11, 10:12 AM
Preamble:

I'm reading through the module at the moment and I plan to run it (at full length) soon in my current campaign, but given it's size and complexity I'm hoping that people here will be able to give me tips and advice before I start.

The party is just two people, a PC and my DMPC. The PC is a Wu Jen//Monk 4 (Monk with full BAB, Armour Bonus equal to level/2, and a d10 for HP) and I'm a Wizard//Survivor 3 (Barbarian that looses attacking abilities like rage and decent BAB, but gains better AC and a passive HP boost instead of an active one). By the time start we will probably be Wu Jen//Monk 5-6 and Wizard/Survivor 4-5.

The PC is the only melee-capable combatant, while I take the role of buffer and artillery. I plan to enter a custom PrC that lets me use healing magic and the like at level 6, but until then we're relying on potions.

/Preamble


I've read most of the first 'act' of the module already, and have been working on integrating it into the story (I chose the Brook No Rivals plot), but the Sunsword seems horribly inappropriate for the game, since neither of use can really use it, so I want to just ditch it entirely (it's a pretty stupid concept anyway, and last I checked the sun is not blue). Will this have any unforseen ramifications?

Since every single creature listed in act 1 has horrible poisons/diseases I'm also worried about our lack of healing until level 6, should I make sure that we find wands/staves with restoration/cure spells?

Another thing that concerns me is that so many NPCs want to join the party - since I already have a PC to run as well as all the enemies every NPC added is a huge strain and slows things down. So should I just find ways to ditch the clingy NPCs, or would the party be slaughtered without them?

Finally, will the module be too difficult for 2 level 5~ gestalt characters?


Any general tips/advice on running the module are also very welcome!

zarakstan
2009-08-11, 10:19 AM
It shouldn't be too difficult, although you will probably both die do to lack of undead turner and healer . . . :smallannoyed: One thing that greatly increased my enjoyment of the module was lots of interaction with the NPCs (such as Sir Whats-His-Name at the Crossroad, and Ashlyn).

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-11, 10:24 AM
Will this have any unforseen ramifications?

Other than Strahd remaining invincible? No. It certainly fits the theme of Ravenloft though. "You could defeat Strahd with the Sunsword." "..We didn't find anything like that in Ravenloft." "Oh, ya, the Dark Powers are just screwing with you. It doesn't exist. Have fun dying!"

Myou
2009-08-11, 10:36 AM
It shouldn't be too difficult, although you will probably both die do to lack of undead turner and healer . . . :smallannoyed: One thing that greatly increased my enjoyment of the module was lots of interaction with the NPCs (such as Sir Whats-His-Name at the Crossroad, and Ashlyn).

Urgh... what if the Lightbringer girl stayed with us? Would that save us?
If posible I're prefer to at least keep it down to one NPC in the group, but two might be better. ><


Other than Strahd remaining invincible? No. It certainly fits the theme of Ravenloft though. "You could defeat Strahd with the Sunsword." "..We didn't find anything like that in Ravenloft." "Oh, ya, the Dark Powers are just screwing with you. It doesn't exist. Have fun dying!"

Errr... but he's not invincible at all. o.O
Why would that have to have it to kill him?

zarakstan
2009-08-11, 10:38 AM
Strahd played right would be unkillable if you don't have the sun sword and a cleric . . . he is just to smart . . . :smallannoyed:

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-11, 10:43 AM
Errr... but he's not invincible at all. o.O
Why would that have to have it to kill him?

Sunsword's necessary to destroy the Dayheart. As long as Strahd has the Dayheart, he cannot be destroyed by staking, the sun or silver. Without it, he is literally invincible as he cannot be permanently destroyed and will always revive himself.

jmbrown
2009-08-11, 11:13 AM
So should I just find ways to ditch the clingy NPCs, or would the party be slaughtered without them?

Your party will be killed either way. There's too many undead patrolling the countryside and an encounter at level 5 or something where the first spell the enemy casts is circle of death.

Bring the NPCs along because if you don't the group will have a long time. Remember that DMNPCs should focus on self preservation first. They'll help the party fight but when the going gets rough (and in Ravenloft that's 95% of the time) the NPCs run if they know they can escape.

Myou
2009-08-11, 11:18 AM
Strahd played right would be unkillable if you don't have the sun sword and a cleric . . . he is just to smart . . . :smallannoyed:


Sunsword's necessary to destroy the Dayheart. As long as Strahd has the Dayheart, he cannot be destroyed by staking, the sun or silver. Without it, he is literally invincible as he cannot be permanently destroyed and will always revive himself.

Um, the description in the book doesnt say it gives immunity to staking or silver, just daylight. And why not just smash the thing to bits without the sunsword? Have I missed something?

And, why would we have to have a cleric? To turn him?

Sorry if these are stupid questions, this is only my second campaign as player or DM.

Myou
2009-08-11, 11:23 AM
Your party will be killed either way. There's too many undead patrolling the countryside and an encounter at level 5 or something where the first spell the enemy casts is circle of death.

Bring the NPCs along because if you don't the group will have a long time. Remember that DMNPCs should focus on self preservation first. They'll help the party fight but when the going gets rough (and in Ravenloft that's 95% of the time) the NPCs run if they know they can escape.

Uhh, what if I wait until we're a few levels higher? Then the NPCs will be first to die from the CoD.

I don't want to actually kill my player's character permaently - he'd be really upset, he gets very attached, as do I.

zarakstan
2009-08-11, 11:29 AM
Um, the description in the book doesnt say it gives immunity to staking or silver, just daylight. And why not just smash the thing to bits without the sunsword? Have I missed something?

And, why would we have to have a cleric? To turn him?

Sorry if these are stupid questions, this is only my second campaign as player or DM.

You need a cleric for spontaneous healing and turning of people other than Strahd (there are soooooo many undead). If I were DMing I'd make Strahd immune to turning or else it is a little lame.

Rhiannon87
2009-08-11, 11:35 AM
I played through this module with a party of 8 players, including 2 clerics. We moved from level 6 to 10. We barely made it out alive. Now, I have a particularly vicious DM, but he didn't change most of the encounters to make them harder, and we got butchered. That fight in the church, with the Blaspheme? Killed 3 party members and almost took out 2 more. We only survived intact with our characters because the DM had a system of mulligans-- basically a "get out of death free card" thing.

I'm at work at the moment so I don't have the module in front of me, but I'm fairly certain that the game is arranged so that Strahd can't be killed unless you've dealt with the Dayheart and the Fanes and gotten all the stuff Madam Eva tells you about. Unfortunately, because of the random element of the fortune-telling encounter, most games of Ravenloft end up going differently for everyone. I can say with authority that this is an incredibly challenging module, and trying to run it with two characters would be almost certain death and disappointment. Pulling in every good NPC the game offers you might help. Maybe. But one of those NPCs ends up being a liability when Strahd is around (damn you Irena!).

It's a fun module if you can live through it. But IMHO, if you've only got two people for a game, you might want to find a different module to try out... particularly if you're relatively inexperienced at D&D. My DM says that this module was really tough to run as well.

Myou
2009-08-11, 11:37 AM
You need a cleric for spontaneous healing and turning of people other than Strahd (there are soooooo many undead). If I were DMing I'd make Strahd immune to turning or else it is a little lame.

Hmm, what if I made the Lightbringer in the town square a cleric instead? Then she would provide the healing and turning without it actually altering her fluff at all.

Myou
2009-08-11, 11:48 AM
I played through this module with a party of 8 players, including 2 clerics. We moved from level 6 to 10. We barely made it out alive. Now, I have a particularly vicious DM, but he didn't change most of the encounters to make them harder, and we got butchered. That fight in the church, with the Blaspheme? Killed 3 party members and almost took out 2 more. We only survived intact with our characters because the DM had a system of mulligans-- basically a "get out of death free card" thing.

I'm at work at the moment so I don't have the module in front of me, but I'm fairly certain that the game is arranged so that Strahd can't be killed unless you've dealt with the Dayheart and the Fanes and gotten all the stuff Madam Eva tells you about. Unfortunately, because of the random element of the fortune-telling encounter, most games of Ravenloft end up going differently for everyone. I can say with authority that this is an incredibly challenging module, and trying to run it with two characters would be almost certain death and disappointment. Pulling in every good NPC the game offers you might help. Maybe. But one of those NPCs ends up being a liability when Strahd is around (damn you Irena!).

It's a fun module if you can live through it. But IMHO, if you've only got two people for a game, you might want to find a different module to try out... particularly if you're relatively inexperienced at D&D. My DM says that this module was really tough to run as well.

Oh hell. o.o

But a lot of hard encounters can be made easier if I reduce the numbers of foes, and our characters are pretty powerful.

I knew that Blaspheme looked nasty. ><

The fanes just give a few bonuses though, stuffl ike extra AC, I don't remember anything in their effects to stop you killing him. But in any case, you don't need the sunsword to destroy them so it's ok.

Nothing I've read seems to actually say you need to the sword to win either, and it's listed effects seem rather mediocre.

I'm starting to think that I may have to bring in all the NPCs and maybe even a few from outide. ><

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-11, 11:50 AM
Um, the description in the book doesnt say it gives immunity to staking or silver, just daylight. And why not just smash the thing to bits without the sunsword? Have I missed something?

Because it's an artifact. Artifacts cannot simply be smashed. And the 2e version makes him immune to staking and silver as well, though that may be a side-benefit of the Hags and the Fanes.

zarakstan
2009-08-11, 12:01 PM
Nothing I've read seems to actually say you need to the sword to win either, and it's listed effects seem rather mediocre.

I'm starting to think that I may have to bring in all the NPCs and maybe even a few from outide. ><

The Sunsword is amazingly powerful! Only reason my party came out of Ravenloft alive. Although my DM hates Items of Legacy (because they stink) so the sword ended up dealing double damage to undead and allowing critical hits which was cool O.o

Myou
2009-08-11, 12:11 PM
Because it's an artifact. Artifacts cannot simply be smashed. And the 2e version makes him immune to staking and silver as well, though that may be a side-benefit of the Hags and the Fanes.

Oh, well that's easy to change.
Now it's as fragile as glass! :D

Myou
2009-08-11, 12:15 PM
The Sunsword is amazingly powerful! Only reason my party came out of Ravenloft alive. Although my DM hates Items of Legacy (because they stink) so the sword ended up dealing double damage to undead and allowing critical hits which was cool O.o

I haven't heard of them before, but the mechanic certainly stinks.
It also doesn't work for my player since he's an unarmed monk.

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-11, 12:15 PM
Oh, well that's easy to change.
Now it's as fragile as glass! :D

Ya, I think you'd be better off looking for another module to run instead. The point behind Ravenloft isn't to win. Characters do not win Ravenloft. The lucky ones merely die.

Might I suggest the Savage Tide adventure path? City of the Spider Queen? What's the ECL of your group?

hamishspence
2009-08-11, 12:15 PM
Minor artifacts are very smashable- its only major ones that require special ways of destroying them.

And some minor artifacts are more powerful than major ones- so (if it's major) reclassifying it as minor isn't that much of a change.

Not that it matters, since the Dayheart has hit points and hardness listed- you don't need the Sunsword to smash it, but you do need a whole lot of damage (or smash the locket first)

Myou
2009-08-11, 12:25 PM
Ya, I think you'd be better off looking for another module to run instead. The point behind Ravenloft isn't to win. Characters do not win Ravenloft. The lucky ones merely die.

Might I suggest the Savage Tide adventure path? City of the Spider Queen? What's the ECL of your group?

Well, the thing is that other than the difficulty it looks really fun and well made, and my player really likes vampires and gothic settings, so why not just play Ravenloft with the difficulty reined in? If we have two clerics with us to heal, etc, and find a few scrolls to remove diseases/curses, etc then it seems doable. And we do want a challenge.

We're about ECL 5 now, maybe 6.


Minor artifacts are very smashable- its only major ones that require special ways of destroying them.

And some minor artifacts are more powerful than major ones- so (if it's major) reclassifying it as minor isn't that much of a change.

Not that it matters, since the Dayheart has hit points and hardness listed- you don't need the Sunsword to smash it, but you do need a whole lot of damage (or smash the locket first)

Ah, yes, I didn't think you needed the sword. The sword actually seems totally unrelated to the plot, it's just a neat item if you want to lose some HP and gold but be good at killing undead.


I suppose I could rework it into a completely different item (that might actually be useful to a monk) and just drop that in in its place....

ZeroNumerous
2009-08-11, 12:29 PM
If we have two clerics with us to heal, etc, and find a few scrolls to remove diseases/curses, etc then it seems doable. And we do want a challenge.

We're about ECL 5 now, maybe 6.

It's not about the challenge. You can make any module challenging. Ravenloft is an inescapable horror where death is the luckiest thing to happen to you. You do not defeat Ravenloft, you survive it.

Might I suggest: One Last Riddle (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20010202a) with an increased difficulty instead? It works for what you're looking for.

Myou
2009-08-11, 12:35 PM
It's not about the challenge. You can make any module challenging. Ravenloft is an inescapable horror where death is the luckiest thing to happen to you. You do not defeat Ravenloft, you survive it.

Might I suggest: One Last Riddle (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20010202a) with an increased difficulty instead? It works for what you're looking for.

Wow, it sounds like you had some harrowing experiences with it. :smalleek:

But still, I really have my heart set on it, I really like the look of it and I want to try running it. I can always find some way out of it if everything goes wrong, and if it goes right then it should be very memorable and fun - my player loves survival horror.

But thank you very much for your warnings! ^^

The New Bruceski
2009-08-11, 12:39 PM
*opens his copy, flips to the Dayheart* Hardness 30 if the amulet is not destroyed, hardness 5 if it is, 200 hp, nothing about needing the Sunsword to destroy. In fact, the Fortunes of Ravenloft could place the Sunsword INSIDE the Dayheart.

EDIT: I shouldn't have gotten caught up in reading more. Ninja'd!

Myou
2009-08-11, 12:41 PM
*opens his copy, flips to the Dayheart* Hardness 30 if the amulet is not destroyed, hardness 5 if it is, 200 hp, nothing about needing the Sunsword to destroy. In fact, the Fortunes of Ravenloft could place the Sunsword INSIDE the Dayheart.

EDIT: I shouldn't have gotten caught up in reading more. Ninja'd!

Thanks for the confirmation though. :smallsmile:

Myou
2009-08-13, 10:00 AM
Bump.

I'm still interested in hearing advice/tips if anyone has any. ^^

Myou
2009-08-14, 01:44 PM
I've reworked the Holy Symbol and Sunsword a little to take out the 'bonding' aspect and make them a little more useful to our characters, what do you guys think? Are they too good/weak, or about right?


Revised Holy Symbol of Ravenloft

Functions as a Phylactery of Faithfulness and grants a +2 bonus to turn checks.

To unlock its full power you have to perform a ritual in the castle chapel that lasts 8 hours and costs 2,000gp. Upon completion the Holy Symbol gains these additional powers;

A further +2 bonus to turn checks, the ability to cast Halt Undead once day (CL 10, save DC 13 + your Cha mod), and the ability to bypass the damage reduction of undead creatures when attacking.

The Holy Symbol ceases to function if removed from the valley, becoming a mundane holy symbol.


Revised Sunsword

Functions as a +1 Longsword.

To unlock its full power you have to perform a ritual in the castle chapel that lasts 8 hours and costs 2,000gp. Upon completion the Sunsword becomes a +1 Undead Bane Holy Longsword and gains these additional powers;

Glows as by a Light spell when undead are within a 20ft radius, casts Light at will (CL 5) and can cast Daylight once per day (CL 10).

The Sunsword ceases to function if removed from the valley, becoming a mundane longsword.


Also, I'm hoping to get advice on what NPCs to bring.

At the moment my player has just finished changing classes, and is now a Sorcerer//Monk 5, while I'm a Wizard//Survivor 5 (see first post). We should both be level 6 when we begin.

Next level I'm going into a PrC that lets me learn divine spells, so I'll be able to cast some Cure spells and the like, but I don't think it's enough, so I plan on letting the Lightbringer in the town square, the guy at the crossroads and Irena all join us (assuming my player doesn't turn them away of course), but based on what I've heard we're gonig to need a cleric too.

So, would that be enough? Or will we need two clerics? Or other types of character? I only saw a couple of traps, so a rogue doesn't seem too useful - we'd spend most of our time searching for traps that aren't there, but maybe I'm wrong?

Myou
2009-08-16, 12:48 PM
I'm still hoping for more advice, even if it's just to say that should be fine. ^^