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Thorin
2009-08-12, 02:44 PM
Hello playgrounders!
In an upcoming campaing I want to play a Invoker and Deva seems to fit perfectly.

I already buy the stats (22 point buy)

STR 13 (light shield prof and carring stuff)
CON 14 (some powers have a nice con sinergy, and who doesn`t like the extra HP and healing surges? plus I can pick armor spec later on)

DEX 10 (later i`ll pick improved init to avoid being always last)
INT 14 (16 as a deva, again, nice sinergy with several powers)

WIS 16 (18 as a deva. 18 because... dhaaa)
CHA 8 (the dump stat has to go somewhere. And i am not going to be the party face anyhow).


For powers I am open to any suggestions

And for feats I really don`t know what to take
I had some in mind:Armor of bahamut, improved init, light shield prof... dunno... thoughness and jack of all trades? im a little lost here!

Starsinger
2009-08-12, 02:48 PM
CHA 8 (the dump stat has to go somewhere. And i am not going to be the party face anyhow).

If you wanted to be party face, or co-face later on, there is a paragon path in Divine Power that lets you use your Wisdom (or is it Intelligence?) modifier for Charisma checks... something to look into.

That said, do you have access to Divine Power?

Thorin
2009-08-12, 02:52 PM
Indeed I do.

PHB, PHB2, Divine Power, Arcane Power and Martial Power for more detailed info

Kylarra
2009-08-12, 02:54 PM
I recommend Battle Intuition from Dragon 374, it replaces your dex to initiative with wisdom and gives a +2 feat bonus. That'll easily outpace improved init for any needs you want.

RTGoodman
2009-08-12, 02:57 PM
As a controller, your job is to, well, control the battlefield. Your power selection will depend on what Covenant you choose (Preservation, which favors Int; Wrath, which favors Con; or Malediction, which I THINK favors Con, too), but in general you want powers that cover wide swaths of the battlefield and shut down enemies with status effects. Choose feats that help with that, or give you some bonus (Improved Initiative lets you go earlier, meaning you can get the drop on minions and incinerate them all before the spread apart, perhaps).

For more detailed info, see the Invoker Handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1164298).

ninja_penguin
2009-08-12, 02:58 PM
It's intelligence. THe paragon path is Devoted Orator. Although for a Deva, intelligence will still work out just fine for you; just go with a covenant of preservation, and pump wis and int at the level 4 boosts.

And as a deva preserving invoker, I'd also take a peek at Insightful Preservation, Resonating Covenant, and Astral Preservation.

Altima
2009-08-12, 03:10 PM
Well, if you're a deva, you'll almost certainly want to be on the Protector path.

There are several background feats that replace your highest modifier for con when determining hitpoints at level one, and since you're a deva, that works out nicely.

As for feats, Toughness and Implement Expertise are good low level choices.

It all kinda depends on what deity and domains you plan to take.

Thorin
2009-08-13, 10:48 PM
Ok, one last question. Is recomendable to multiclass?
If so, wich class should be the other one?

PS: IS there some feat that grants the wizard cantrips class feature?

Gralamin
2009-08-13, 10:51 PM
Ok, one last question. Is recomendable to multiclass?
If so, wich class should be the other one?
Cleric, Avenger, and Shaman all make good invoker Multiclasses if you choose to do so.


PS: IS there some feat that grants the wizard cantrips class feature?

If you are a Gnome, yes. That ability is mostly fluff though, and I don't see it being unreasonable to give it to others (It should not, for example, be the only thing Hybrid Wizards give).

Kylarra
2009-08-13, 10:56 PM
Ok, one last question. Is recomendable to multiclass?
If so, wich class should be the other one?

PS: IS there some feat that grants the wizard cantrips class feature?
There're hedge wizard gloves, level 4 item, AV p135, gives you mage hand and prestidigitation at will.

oxinabox
2009-08-14, 01:46 AM
heh heh, last time I played 4e i play a deva invoker, who stole his power from the gods. (dm allowed refluff)
He liked to pretend he was more than mortal.

Anyway, take the power "Demand Obedience" ( i think)
Esp if you have convent of wrath.
You get to tell the dm that "These NPC's here, they now have the chance to fall prone..."

so in this one off game, we were attacked by a bunch of pessents lead by a child (we were supposed to run apparently).
They started throwing stones and demanding we left there village.
So I win initive:
"Bow Down Before Me Mortals!" (demand obienence)
(most refused) I crush there minds, most die (in that area).
The Ranger goes next, he puts two arrows through the eye of the child leading them.
Then the warlock, posion most of those remaining.
They go: they throw a lot of rocks (there were many many of them to start)
We take some damage:
I invoke "Emmesery of the gods" (+many to diplomancy and intimidate)
and then also memery of 1000 lifetimes.
"Run While You Can Mortal Fools"
Intimidate: 32.
They flee.

...
I get eaten by a tree.
Life is good

Burley
2009-08-14, 06:26 AM
)

DEX 10 (later i`ll pick improved init to avoid being always last)
WIS 16 (18 as a deva. 18 because... dhaaa)


I snipped some off.
Instead of taking improved initiative, there is a Deva only feat (which I don't remember) that gives you Wisdom (instead of Dexterity) to initiative, as well as a +2 to it. My level 11 Deva Artificer went from a +5 to a +11 initiative when I swapped that feat. It's nice.

Kylarra
2009-08-14, 10:13 AM
I snipped some off.
Instead of taking improved initiative, there is a Deva only feat (which I don't remember) that gives you Wisdom (instead of Dexterity) to initiative, as well as a +2 to it. My level 11 Deva Artificer went from a +5 to a +11 initiative when I swapped that feat. It's nice.

>____________>


I recommend Battle Intuition from Dragon 374, it replaces your dex to initiative with wisdom and gives a +2 feat bonus. That'll easily outpace improved init for any needs you want.

Thorin
2009-08-14, 10:47 AM
My Dm thinks that battle intuition is kindda broken.

I start with 18 in wis, so the total is a +6 to init in level 1. Is he wrong? Should I suggest to erase the +2 bonus from the feat?

Burley
2009-08-14, 11:13 AM
>____________>

Kpshblah. Obviously, my post had personal information and retro-retroactively ninja'd you. I, obviously, knew this, so, I didn't read your post.
C'mon, Kylarra. Get with this program.

Also, I apologize. :smallbiggrin:

Dyllan
2009-08-14, 11:32 AM
My Dm thinks that battle intuition is kindda broken.

I start with 18 in wis, so the total is a +6 to init in level 1. Is he wrong? Should I suggest to erase the +2 bonus from the feat?

Remind him that if you were playing a rogue, or instance, you would start with an 18 in dex, and if you instead took improved initiative you'd be getting a total of +8 to init at level 1.

Remember, you're using your wis instead of your dex, so unless you have a +0 dex mod, you're not really gaining +6 from the feat (of course, if you had a -1 dex mod, you'd be getting +7).

Now if it allowed you to add your wis modifier in addition to your dex modifier, then yes, I'd call it broken at heroic level.

Artanis
2009-08-14, 11:45 AM
Remember, you're using your wis instead of your dex, so unless you have a +0 dex mod, you're not really gaining +6 from the feat (of course, if you had a -1 dex mod, you'd be getting +7).

But he DOES have a +0 DEX mod. So he IS gaining +6 to his init.

Dyllan
2009-08-14, 12:39 PM
But he DOES have a +0 DEX mod. So he IS gaining +6 to his init.

So? The only situations where you can gain a large bonus to initiative with this feat are situations where your current initiative mod is lowsy - ie, you have a low dex.

It will never be as good as a dex-based character taking improved initiative, so it's not going to unbalance anything (unless you believe improved initiative is unbalancing when combined with a high dex). Yes, it's a powerful feat in exactly the right circumstances (high wis and low dex), but it's not unbalancing.

By that logic, martial training is unbalancing because a 0 Str character can get a +4 to standard attacks with it. And that feat that my bard could take to make all my multiclass attacks based off charisma is unbalancing because I could get as much as a +5 to some attacks with it. And attack rolls are much more crucial to winning than initiative is, unless you're playing a very striker heavy game.

Artanis
2009-08-14, 07:07 PM
He said "unless you have a +0 DEX mod etc. etc. etc." I pointed out that he did have a +0 DEX mod, removing the situation he stated from the list of possibilities. Nothing more.

Kylarra
2009-08-14, 07:24 PM
Kpshblah. Obviously, my post had personal information and retro-retroactively ninja'd you. I, obviously, knew this, so, I didn't read your post.
C'mon, Kylarra. Get with this program.

Also, I apologize. :smallbiggrin:
I wish I had my own TARDIS to retroactively ninja people! :smallamused:


My Dm thinks that battle intuition is kindda broken.

I start with 18 in wis, so the total is a +6 to init in level 1. Is he wrong? Should I suggest to erase the +2 bonus from the feat?In addition to the stuff mentioned above, I'd point out that there's less of an overall impact than say some of the racial weapon training feats and similar things that have effects more than 1/encounter.